This is ASSUMING that you believe the bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
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This is ASSUMING that you believe the bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Are you saying you believe that water separated itself like two walls were constructed to hold it back. A dry path was created for people to walk through . And all the fish, sea life, etc. would have to pick a side and try to stay in the water since dry land would kill them.Quote:
29By faith the people passed through the Red Sea[d] as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
I'm not trying to be a smart alack, just real. I want someone to answer the hard questions and not gloss over reality with irrational scripture.
I totally love and agree with your answer. It was respectful and fair. You were not pushing your beliefs or agenda on anyone. I would love to know how you came to your decision to not believe in a god.Quote:
Originally Posted by WVHiflyer
I really don't understand why it matters if the earth will end or not. What will be, will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
You are so right. There is no way to "prove" this. Or "know" this. You just choose to "believe" it, or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackblue
My problem is not with "god" for lack of a better word. I "believe" there is a god that exist in everyone that chooses to be open to the idea. My problem is not with the idea of a god but with the bible, and the conditional love and acceptance set up to be able to enter the gates of heaven. (ie Belief that Jesus is the son of god)
I feel strength and love from him the same way I feel the unconditional love I have for my children. It is something that can not be proven by an outside source but is something as real inside me as the nose on my face. My good conduct and compassion for other people has nothing to do with pleasing a god to earn brownie points toward my ticket to heaven. It simply is done because my heart tells me that is the way it should be.
Is there an afterlife? The only thing we know for sure is that no one really KNOWS. They just choose to believe or not believe. I choose NOT to believe in the literal interpretation for sure! It just goes against everything that is right.
Imagine human forms standing around heaven waiting to be reunited with loved ones.
Or hell being a fiery pit with a devil running around and good people burning for
Eternity. Christians believe hell is the result of not " believing" even if a person was never even taught about Jesus or if they simply believe in what they were taught by their family or culture. Or a person that has spent their life dedicated to helping others but is not of the christian faith. This, I TOTALLY don't believe in.
I call this CONDITIONAL love from a god that would hold this over your head. I can't believe in and trust such a god.
What is a para human force?Quote:
Originally Posted by VSPrasad
It's some sort of paranormal force that seems to affect the average gender ratio of humans.
[/QUOTE]Quote:
Do you think that such an engineering marvel could
Have come into being through evolution alone?
I think yes, it's possible. I am impressed with the brains of scientist that figure all this stuff out.
Now, tell me how a male form appeared in the garden of eden? Where is this garden anyway? They had children. Who did their children mate with? Where did the names Adam and Eve come from? What characteristics did they have? Black, white skin, straight or curly hair? How did these features of the original two people come about? I find it very hard to believe that billions of people are the descendants of only one man and one woman. Speaking of math, it just doesn't add up!
cozyk... you really missed the point totally
Science and biology has absolutely nothing to do with it... try Faith
Hi, I happen to come across this message board & became quite interested in this conversation. I went to a private (along with my younger & my older brother) many years ago. Im 30 now, my father past when I was 14& that's when we left the school to move back up north, we couldn't afford where we were living after his passing. Anyway I struggled for many years asking God "why would you take my dad, he was a good husband, great father just a wonderful man" His time here was a short one, he was 40yrs old. I grew up without a male figure and blamed it on God. I am 30yrs old, a mom and a wife now & have accepted that He didn't rip him from us, it was simply his time to go, why? Well I still don't know but I can tell you this, we (people) are all here, not by accident. There is a purpose for your existence, for everyone's existence. It is up to you and only you to figure that out, that is what life is all about. The discovery of who we are and why we are here. God is like wind, you can not see it but no matter, you still know it's there, you can feel it. And that my friend is God!! Godbless you on your journey of life and Good luck!
You did not answer any of my questions. Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rphan
I will tell you this, as humanbeings we all question. It is natural for us to be curious and have a "need to see it to belive it" attitude toward most major things in life(small stuff too I guess) & I have found myself question everything, all the time, in everything I did. In this lifetime we all can agree on one single factor and that is that we will never truly know an answer to everything we question. And yes it all comes down to one thing and that is the "F" word, Faith!! Im sure Im not the only one that has had a very close all in my life, in a car accident, maybe test results, maybe a major surgery(or be it a family member or friend we are close with) and the second we escape that close call, we get this very warm sensation in our whole body that consumes us with this feeling and what do we say before anything else "THANK GOD". I truly believe its because on some level we all know there's something more. The bible is confusing for a lot of people to understand, I still don't but even It says there are many religions and we weren't given the right to judge, that for only the Almighty to do, but at the end of the day when we're left as confused as we were when we started, just close your eyes and listen to your heart. You'll be surprised at what you can teach yourself by just feeling what's already there. That's how I know that God is always with me, he tells me in the sunshine, in the winds, the rains, the rainbows and in the eyes of my 2 beautiful sons. Im far from a religious person and don't want to come off as such. But I just believe what I believe and it's a peace I pray everyone gets to experience in their lives, if you just stop asking why and just open your heart and just listen. Everything else will happen to follow, not by accident (its all a purpose!)
I agree. "Be STILL and know that I AM God. That tells me we just need to be still and quite and listen to our heart and that is where we find God. Pushing religious doctrine and trying to get others to believe that our god is THE god is counter productive. It causes strife and discord.:oQuote:
Originally Posted by jessy5717
Thanks for recognizing that. I've been accused of the opposite. But like you, I have no real problem with faith, my concerns are organized religion and its institutions, esp those which proclaim a need to adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible - any bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
While I believed in God early on, mostly it was a social conscript - no one I knew didn't. But Mom let me opt out of Sunday school when I said I didn't like it. I don't remember if I told her (we prob didn't have that conversation then), but part of the reason was the recognition of inconsistencies and contradictions. (Who did Cain marry and who was in Nod? Who did Noah's family members marry to repopulate the world? Of whom is God jealous?) As I got older, the questions continued and my break with organized religion came when the minister railed against Communism in his Sunday sermon instead of sticking to religious topics (I was in my early teens). With all the many problems I saw in organized religion I became an 'agnostic.'
The more I studied how the world and nature worked, the more irrational I deemed the concept of a god until I realized I never really did believe in such an omnipotent, onmiscient being.
I will never scoff at faith, but I will challenge anyone who tries to claim that everyone has to believe or that everyone must follow their religious rules of conduct.
BTW- - welcome to the conversation.
-
What questions!! All you've done is make statements... in the main disagreeing with why people believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
My reason for my belief has been posted in previous posts, I see no reason to re -iterate
That post, my opinion remains unchanged.
The argument still stands... you cannot dis-prove the existence of God and I cannot prove Gods existence... and quite frankly I don't feel the need to do so.
My bad. I was responding to so many post that I actually combined yours and another by accident. So sorry for the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rphan
My believing that science/biology could be responsible for the nature you described is not an anti-god statement. I actually believe in God. He resides in my heart and soul. I have no desire to prove or dis-prove God to anyone and have not ask you or anyone else to prove it to me.
Your post was asking how could someone NOT believe when you look at all these things in nature. My point is that if you are using that as an example of proof, it was not a slam dunk example.
Dear Morteza, it doesn't take long to see the existence of God, when you wake up in the morning and hear the birds wake with the dawn, what a wonder to behold.
The bible says that we are fearfully and wonderfully made,
Psalm 139:13-15
13 For you created my inmost being;
You knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
When I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
God has a plan for your life, but until your spirit becomes alive to God, you cannot see or even enter the Kingdom of God.
Jesus said, You must be Born again.
This is a real experience, if you are obedient to the Word of God and turn from your sin, (we are all sinners in need of a Saviour) accept Jesus as your sacrifice from sin, (we are saved by the Grace of God, not by our own works).
Ask God to fill you with His Holy Spirit, and He will give you, not only power over sin, but a new tongue to praise Him with.
Then get baptised by full immersion, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, to wash away your sins.
If you can get a Bible, read Mark 16. John 3. Ephesians 1-2, Romans, all of it, and James.
Then go back and read the whole New Testament.
Jesus died for you too, but then He rose from the dead so that you could receive eternal life.
Not only for you, but to any-one that would call on His name.
Just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you, and send some-one to tell you more.
I know that you may have a mistrust of Christians for what has been done in the name of Christianity, but don't let evil men deny you from the inheritance God has got planned for you.
May the peace and love of the Lord Jesus Christ rest upon your soul.
Peter. :)
I can't prove anything and niether can anybody about this but just look at the world! Someone had to do it!
Someone had to do it?! Why? No reason at all why anyone or anything had to be consciously working to create anything you see.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanom
I look at the world and sky and wonder at nature. You look and see something's handiwork. I like my view better. More wonder in it.
I believe in faith. It brings mankind together. Religion, on the other hand, appears to separate man through difference in beliefs. If man is made in Gods image I would fear to meet a God with the capacities of hate and ego and greed. Further I don't accept the word of God through any man. Man is subject to corruption and the power of influencing others always leads to corruption. If God wanted to speak to me it seems unlikely he would use a middlman that is subject to the temptations power implies. As yet I've had no epiphanies or lightning bolts appear in my vicinity. I think the more likely understanding is that God is a universal entity made up of everything in the universe and existing eternally. I'm sure to such a being, the short time man has existed and the fact that he operates just like a virus in that he wastes resources until they are gone and then moves to a new area of resource, would appear to such a Being as a zit on the face of a tiny backwoods planet and would heal itself by its own destruction quicker than it would take for God to do anything about it. Therefore the synopsis is: the universe is healthy except for one small outbreak that will cure itself through natural extinction. The dinosaurs existed longer than we have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVHiflyer
This was an excellent response to the original question. I believe that I have a "god" out there or mostly "in there" in my heart, gut, soul, and or conscience. I was raised as a die hard christian and I have questioned aspects of that all my life. I certainly do NOT believe that Christianity is THE only acceptable religion as Christians do. Therefore, I've turned in my christian card. :) My children do not even believe in god. I would be so interested to hear how you came to not believing in any god.
The supreme revelation of God is Jesus Christ Himself. Jesus
Was God in the flesh that came to earth. He came in fulfillment of two thousand
Years of Jewish history, and His coming was precisely as fortold by the prophets. He came among us and showed us what God is like, so we could know Him better.
As He told His disciple Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father".John 14:9
Maggie 3
My friend you can never query some questions that are unanswerable from the times immemorial!
Many lost there simple living and wandered for long in search of these unanswerable question believe me your very existence is much to be cherished rather than looking for gods and spirits , ask yourself who you are and seek this question continuously what ever you are doing every time...
Remember you won't be long enough and won't have another opportunity to do better things forget what gospels , books and guru's say ,
Take hints from them but follow your own liked path!
Not all Christians believe Christianity is the only acceptable religion. It sounds as if your version wasn't worth having :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Try addressing my questionsQuote:
Originally Posted by 0rphan
Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.
We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.
One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."
Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.
After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?
MORE?
visit
God Allah - Does It Mean God?
Allah's Quran - Quran - A Guidance Without Doubt
Individuals, forces and events are either positive or negative, creative or destructive, good or evil. Creation originates in the Creator. Destruction results from conflict between finite objects and persons...
Dear friend,
I believed you are somewhat impatient in your search for certain big questions?
I honestly tell you even I cannot prove to you the existence of an almighty...
Also honestly even I don't have an idea as to whether there is such thing as a GOD!
But believe me when I speak to you I speak from my experiences :
"with which ever perspective you look out for this question you wont find a logical answer to this question"
Faith does moves big mountains, also rational thinker are also true !
The fact is its you who has to make or destroy your life !
So act such that you build your life beautifully not craving for knowing some questions that are not possible to be solved !
And if there is a god he or she will let you know these questions when the destiny has it to give to you in your life :)
I think the best starting point in your quest is to ask yourself what you regard as more important than anything else...
How about love? :)
I believe you should know a few things about God, so you can recognize Him, who and
What He is. First He is the Bible the Word of God. Some may not have a good understanding of God because it takes time to read and study it. God is spirit, love and all
Goodness. Here are four qualities (attributes) of God. No other person or creature
Can claim these attributes.
GOD IS ETERNAL
"Then Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there called on the name of the Lord, the Everlasting God." Gen 21:33
GOD IS OMNIPOTENT---ALMIGHTY, ALL---POWERFUL
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to Him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless." Gen 17:1
"But Jesus looked at them {His disiples} and said to them, "With men this is impossible,
But with God all things are possible". Math. 19:26
God IS OMNISCIENT--ALL-KNOWING
"God is greater than our heart, and knows all things." 1 John 3:20
"And there is no creaturs hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account." Heb 4:13
GOD IS OMNIPRESENT--PEASENT EVERWHERE,UNLIMITED BY SPACE
"Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I flee
From Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in
Hell, behold, you are there." Ps139:7-8
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...
And the Word became flish and dwet among us, and we beheld His glory, and glory as
Of the only begoten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1, 14
These attributes give you a good look at what you are looking for! It is hard to find
Something you have no idea what it is like.
There are two powers on earth good and evil. God is love and all good. Satan is all evil
And bad.
When you find the one with these attributes you find God.
Shalom,
MAGGIE 3
Maggie 3
Well my thoughts on this topic may be a little off key from the rest but here is my respond:
The world feels so concrete and electronicaly lit up, doesn't it? Sometimes we all feel that we deserve or should have been given proof that there is a God. In this day and age, our generations greatest test is wheather or not we will believe in there being a deeper truth beyond the walls of our mediocre world. The Bible says that this world was meant for living in , but not living for. This is why we stumble in our faith in the superior spirit that does not show himself in times of desperation and disbelief. In all truth, the tangible world we live in is more ugly and without a God , completely purposless. All hope would be a lie with a God. Scary, I know. So because of this fear, we become so unmovable. We don't want to take a step forward in our spiritual selves because we fear it could lead to a path of emptiness. We become afraid of living as our fellow society members because we fear hell and the pit of unmistakable regret.
Remember this, God is love. Everything God is in the Bible , as he himself declares he is, loving and only has the best of intensions for mankind. An excellent example of God's good intensions would be hold onto virginity until marriage. Let's image a world where we all had sex with one person our entire lives. (Far fetched to us now, yes but it had a good purpose.) That world would be full of happier united families, few divorces, few diseases, etc. God's "rules" were only meant for embracement.
Anyhow, It's just a matter of believing in his love; Believing in his presence. It isn't logical. But logic stands very small next to an everylasting truth.
God bless.
I'm starting to believe God lies in consciousness. That men are minimally conscious. According to quantum mechanics (I think?) all things ranging from thought to matter are made of energy vibrating at a specific frequency that is the signature for the nature and content of the object/subject. That all creation begins with thought and grows with conscious recognition. Consciousness is the living and life giving? It's highly likely that people such as Jesus and Buddha became what they were through overcoming "self", conceptions of reality learned in adolescence through peers and the environment.. or maybe even developed through conformation with the energy frequency of those around them.
God doesn't have to be some dude "up there" in some bad place called heaven to be known as God. God can be a conscious thing, a consciousness that creates life that exists through acting and changing in order for consciousness to experience itself. Experience occurs through action. Thought is action. Without thought, action, or change, how would pure consciousness experience itself... maybe physical life is the matrix of god. The higher the consciousness the higher the knowing... depth perception.. etc.
Read the Kybalion.
I liked your answer... really much! Thanks dude...
You need look no further than DNA which is ceded information, information always comes from intelligence, and is never random as the evolutionist claim. Example: you don't see a heart and arrow in the sand that reads " I love Lucy" and assume it got there by accident, it's information. All living things where created by an itellegent being, it is your job to figure out who he is. I suggest strongly that you begin with prayer, and read the Christian bible through at least one.
Many arguments which attempt to prove or disprove the existence of God have been proposed by philosophers, theologians, and other thinkers for many centuries. In philosophical terminology, such arguments concern schools of thought on the epistemology of the ontology of God.
There are many philosophical issues concerning the existence of God. Some definitions of God are sometimes nonspecific, while other definitions can be self-contradictory. Arguments for the existence of God typically include metaphysical, empirical, inductive, and subjective types, while others revolve around holes in evolutionary theory and order and complexity in the world. Arguments against the existence of God typically include empirical, deductive, and inductive types. Conclusions reached include: "God does not exist" (strong atheism); "God almost certainly does not exist"[16] (de facto atheism); "no one knows whether God exists" (agnosticism); "God exists, but this cannot be proven or disproven" (theism); and "God exists and this can be proven" (theism). There are numerous variations on these positions.
A recent argument for the existence of God is intelligent design,[17] which asserts that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."[18] It is a modern form of the traditional argument from design, modified to avoid specifying the nature or identity of the designer. Its primary proponents, all of whom are associated with the Discovery Institute,[19] believe the designer to be the Abrahamic God.[20]
Arguments for the existence of God come in many different forms; some draw on history, some on science, some on personal experience, and some on philosophy.
God exists and that's for sure
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