Aww, they sound like sweet birds.

Studies have only been done on gay men. If there are, technically speaking, homosexual babies born, then asexuals, and pansexuals must've been born that way too.

How do we know how to treat the opposite sex? How do we get our views on the opposite sex? We learn them. It's how we are raised, what culture we are raised in, who we are, and how we form our opinions. We aren't born with these opinions, preferences, and behaviors, we LEARN them. So, why not our sexual orientation? Who's to say that homosexuals, pansexuals, asexuals, and heterosexuals aren't just steered in that direction at some point in time in our lives?

That could definitely be a factor, but there are others.

While they have yet to isolate a single gene that controls sexual orientation, they have proven that hormones play a huge part. Gay men produce larger quantities of estrogen. Gay women usually produce larger quantities of testosterone. That's where the stereotypical looks comes from.

However, correcting the imbalance does NOT change their orientation.

The human body, especially the brain, is just too complex for one answer to fit every situation.

Well yeah. Women who work have more testosterone than women who choose to be homemakers. That doesn't mean that women have no choice when it comes to staying at home, or working-their hormones don't mean that they were just born that way. For women hormone levels are always going up and down, and so are adolescents hormones. So does a woman have more testosterone because she works, or does a woman work because she has more testosterone? Is a woman lesbian because she has more testosterone, or does she have more testosterone because she is lesbian?

Female sexuality isn't cut and dry. It can be fluid and ever changing. It's just the way the female brain is wired, change is easier for them.

Male sexuality, on the other hand, is very black and white. Somewhere around 99% of men are either gay or straight. VERY few are truly bisexual. And, it's even more rare for a male's sexuality to change once puberty is reached.

Are you saying that men are going to be gay or straight BEFORE they hit puberty, and it won't change after that? I've NEVER heard of a 13, 14 year old boy stating that he prefers to sleep with men over women. Most 13, and 14 year old boys have never had their first kiss. And, it's a good thing too.

Yes. Most LGBT youth know their orientation by the age of 13. It doesn't mean they admit it to anyone. Just that when they finally do come out, they admit to recognizing the feelings from an early age.

Also, orientation is NOT dependent on the sexual act. Just like someone can know they're straight and still be a virgin, someone who's a virgin can know they're gay or bi.

Transsexual youth, on the other hand, recognize feeling different at a much younger age. It is not uncommon for parents to recount stories of their children wanting to be the opposite sex, even to the point of pretending and telling people that are. All, often, before they even reach grade school.

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, and by definition it is "the direction of your sexual attraction..." Meaning, in order to claim to be "bi, gay, straight, or otherwise" you have to know who you are sexually attracted to. Sexual orientation goes beyond crushes, and mere attraction for someone, it comes down to your sexual attraction.

Yes, but too many people believe that it's impossible to be gay unless you've had gay sex. That simply isn't true.

Did you know that you were heterosexual before you had sex? I'm guessing you did. I know I did.

I've never eve been curious about the same sex, other then friendship. I was always attracted to men, always will be. You've said the same thing.

I have a lot of gay friends and yes, they knew from an early age. Some of them tried dating members of the opposite sex, they tried to fit in to what society considers okay, the norm. It didn't work. A few of them even went so far as to get married because they didn't want to admit that they were gay.

It's not a choice. As I said before, and others have said, who would choose to be something that most of society cannot accept, doesn't tolerate, even hates?

Saying it's a choice isn't logical. Think about it.

I'm not about to get into my own sexuality. I know a lot of gay/bisexual people too, some of my family members are gay. Most of them are teenagers, and the reason why they claim to be bi/gay is to get attention in their school. Especially when it comes to females claiming "bisexuality." The guys think it's hot, and they can still have "straight" sex without violating their own terms.

Altenweg, remember what I said before? Yes, a lot of society doesn't agree with homosexuality, that isn't a good enough argument. You ask: why would someone choose something that most of OUR culture doesn't agree with?
Well, why do Chinese people choose to become Christians when it's illegal in their country? Why would muslims convert when it means the death penalty? Why would anyone CHOOSE to be a Christian when most of THEIR society disagrees with it, even to the point of killing people for their faith. Does that make Christianity a choice, or were Christians just born that way?

I could say the same for several other things in this world. Why would an atheist choose to believe what they believe if they know their Christian family would disown them? Why would someone get a tattoo and piercings when they know that they would be less likely to get hired by potential employers, and would be looked down on by others? Why would a man be sexist if he knows his girlfriend would breakup with him? Why would someone choose to be racist when most of our society disagrees with racism? Why would I choose to be 100% okay with gay marriage, while being nagged at, ridiculed, and scolded by fellow Christians? Well, maybe I was just born with that opinion? Maybe that person was just born with those tattoos? Maybe that atheist was just, born atheist? Maybe people are born sexist and racist too.

We all have the option to get tattoos or not, to be atheist or not, to be christian or not, to agree with certain things or not, to be racist, or sexist, or to not. To have sex with the same sex, or to have sex with the opposite sex... These are all options open to us all. So why do we choose what we choose?
It doesn't make sense, you need a different argument.

Sadly that is happening more and more and it's a shame, not only for them, but for the people that really are struggling with their sexual identity. They're making a mockery out of it and only doing it for attention while the people really struggling with this issue have no one to turn to (most times).

Those are two very different issues. Homosexuality is a part of you, a part of your body, how you work. It's not a choice. Religion is very much a choice and some people love the idea of being martyrs.

If you're going to try to make a comparison then at least choose something that is comparable.

Again, these examples aren't comparable. Anyone can walk into a tattoo shop and get a tattoo, that is a choice. Being an atheist is a choice, everything you've cited is a choice. Once again, being gay isn't.

Find something comparable. So far you haven't.

So far my argument is sound. Yours holds no merit.

Think about it. Really think about it. Not with the beliefs you were raised with, not with the idea that because the bible may mention gays being wrong that you have to agree because you're Christian. Think for yourself and open your mind enough to at least read what I'm saying without discounting it immediately.

There have been studies done showing that yes, gays are born gay, just like heterosexuals are born heterosexual. I trust science, it's been proven. Religion, well, that's just a belief, one you have a right to, but still just a belief.

If you can show a study where scientists say without a doubt that gays choose to be gay, then I'd like to read it.

The fact is, I do understand why you believe what you believe. You have to, otherwise you have to admit that you are a hater, that you don't accept the gay community. It's easier to believe that they have a choice and therefore it's okay to segregate them, because they made their beds.

If you accept the facts, that gays are gays because they're gays, then your segregation of them is just mean, and you don't want to admit that you might be that person.

Really, I understand. I went to Catholic school for 10 years, I understand justifying your hatred. That's why I'm a Deist.

Altenweg, you make me laugh. Did you forget the part where I said that I'm 100% FOR gay marriage, and I'm NOT against them at all? For some reason you think that I hate them. Now what made you think that?

I just don't think that gays are born gay, simple as that. How does that make me hate them? I don't! In fact, I recall saying something about me being nagged, ridiculed, and scolded by fellow Christians for being all for homosexuality... Does that ring a bell?

It's not right of you to assume that since I'm a Christian that I'm some gay hater, and that I don't want to admit things, etc. etc. I'm completely for gays, and I'm not Catholic. Don't assume that you know things about me when you clearly don't.

Okay, I totally read that wrong and I apologize. I'm on a lot of medication right now, I'll blame it on that. ;)

I never meant to imply that you're a gay hater, what I'm saying is that most Christians justify not accepting gays because of the bible, instead of thinking for themselves. Again, not doing so well, probably should have re-read my post before posting it.

Obviously you can tell that I feel very passionately about this subject. I also have done enough research and read enough scientific evidence that I really don't believe that being Gay is a choice, in fact, I'm certain it isn't. I hope that we can agree to disagree.

Again, if I said something that upset you or insulted you, I apologize, that really wasn't my intention.

Also, call me Alty, everyone does. Altenweg is just to long.

Yeah. We can agree to disagree. In my opinion, it's not whether being gay is a choice that's the problem- it's accepting them in the first place, whether it is a choice or they were born that way. And it sickens me to think that so few Christians are able to do that. It makes me embarrassed for them, to think that they are basically fighting a losing battle.

I've got a friend that I call Alty. That's cool.

I thought I was the only Alty. So sad. ;)

That's what also bothers me, the unwillingness to accept gays. You see, I thought we were on different sides of the fence, and as I said, this issue is something I will fight for, because I don't think it's right to ostracize gays just for being gay. I just don't understand that kind of hate. People are people, no matter what.

I live in Canada. Here gays can marry. I just don't see why people can't just accept it and move on. No one is asking them to embrace the gay lifestyle, or gays period, but at least let them have legal rights, have the same rights everyone else does.

Okay, that's another debate. I won't go there. ;)

The fact is, I really think you give good advice Jaimie, so even if we disagree, I hope we can discuss it rationally. I promise that next time I'll warn you if it's something I'm really passionate about. :) I also hope to be in better shape next time, then I may not be as emotional.

Yeah, I live in Wisconsin. Here gays are able to enter into a legal union, but not specifically "marriage." I agree with everything you said completely.

I can understand you're point of view, but it still upsets me. One thing I will probably NEVER forgive my mother for telling me she would accept my 'choice' when I came out to her. It hurt. Deeply. More than anyone who hasn't gone through it can ever possibly begin to understand.

I worried myself to the point of becoming physically ill before I finally came out to her. I figured, that since she had a sister that had come out in the 80's and then killed herself, partially because my mother was the only member of the family that didn't disown and shun her, that she would be more accepting. That she would understand it was something I had no control over. Instead, she basically told me that all the stress, mental anguish, turmoil, panic, doubt, and a myriad of other emotions were something I brought on myself. That it was all my fault.

While I was living in the dorms during college, I was the victim of hate crimes. I had very offensive and homophobic notes put on my door. There were comments. I even lost almost all my friends, some because I was gay and others because I wasn't 'gay enough' for them.

All of that happened before I ever had sex for the first time.

I KNEW I was gay. It didn't matter that I'd only ever kissed one person. It didn't matter that I'd never done more than kiss someone. It didn't matter that I had never even masturbated. It didn't matter that I'd never fantasized or dreamed about anyone. It was something I just KNEW.

Once I finally admitted it to myself, I was able to reexamine my past relationships. I am a pro at suppressing and burying my emotions. For as long as I can remember, all the way back through grade school, I had gay thoughts. 'pretty.' 'cute butt.' 'nice lips.' every time I caught myself thinking thoughts I somehow KNEW I could never let anyone ever know I'd thought, I would close my eyes and sing silent night in my head over and over until I forgot what I'd been thinking. I was CONVINCED that someone would hear my thoughts and I'd be locked up in a mental ward and never see my friends or family again.

I distinctly remember standing in the lunch line when I was in about 4th or 5th grade and closing my eyes and singing as loud as I could in my head. I was so busy blocking out thoughts of a classmate that the person behind had to shove me to let me know the line moved.

I was TERRIFIED that the one time I forgot to sing someone would hear my thoughts and I'd be locked up and everyone would hate me. There are STILL times I find myself singing, and I have to make a conscious effort to stop myself and remind myself that it's OK to have those thoughts. That no one is going to hear my thoughts and lock me up for the rest of my life.

I don't remember anyone ever telling me that being gay was bad. I have no idea where I got the idea that someone could hear my thoughts.

Wherever I got that idea, it inspired a fear so deep that I would just shut down. I'd stop whatever I was doing so I could close my eyes and sing until the fear went away.

Do you think an 8 year old would CHOOSE that fear? Or would even know what a choice like that would MEAN?

I didn't even really know what it meant to be gay. I knew my aunt had liked girls and had a girlfriend. I knew they'd stuck into a local arboretum at night to get 'married' by a friend of their because they weren't allowed to have a real marriage. I knew they probably held hands, and maybe even kissed. It wasn't something that was real, or even made sense, to me. I'm not sure I even knew gay men existed.

Are you saying my 8 year old self, who didn't even know what being gay really meant, chose to be gay? Are you saying I chose to have thoughts that terrified me? That I chose to be plagued by the fear that my entire family would hate me (because, after all, they had hated my aunt for liking girls) and I would spend the rest of my life alone in an empty room? Are you saying, that little kid chose to think that some people were pretty and others weren't?

If I could redo my life, I would take away that fear. I have a feeling my life would've been a lot happier. Maybe I wouldn't have tried to kill myself when I was 10. Maybe I would've been making friends, instead of hiding in books. Maybe I wouldn't have all the problems I have today facing my emotions and processing them in a healthy way, instead of suppressing them until I become self-destructive and have a complete break-down. Maybe I wouldn't be so scared to be honest about who I am. Maybe.

No there is no wrong no matter who says what that's their opinion if someone choses to be gay then there is a true feeling for it I have a few friends that are gay and bi and they are in real love 2 of them are getting married. It is a choice you choose to be with. Some people arnt raised that way and are raised that it is wrong. No it is not wrong you can not help the way you are even if people judge you people are s! If you were a guy and your favorite thing was fashion you wouldn't stop doing it because other people thought it was weird you would do it because that's who you are. It's their choice not everyone else's it's their lives and if their familey can't except it then that's their problem and their loss.ok some people its just against their religion then that's their problem let them think that. The truth is people out their today if their bi,lez, or gay it doesn't matter you are who you are and there is nothing wrong with that if people have a problem with it tell them to go to hell you shouldn't no be who you are because of peoples insacurity how ever that's spelled. So all you haters need to get a life and look at the actuall picture here not because you think its strange think about their feelings I would know I used to be bi

I do not believe it is wrong.
My best guy friend is gay, & my best girl friend who is like my sister is lesbian..
Think of it this way,
"How do you really, truely know who is right & who is wrong?
How do you know that Straight people aren't the ones who are wrong?"