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    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 27, 2009, 06:53 PM
    Water damage and possible mold behind walls
    The air conditioner in my daughter's bedroom has been dripping water onto the windowsill and this water has then been dripping into the wall space beneath the window. This has been happening over the course of the summer and I have not noticed. The damage was happening behind the furniture. The walls have paneling and they have slowly been warping. Now they are extremely warped and the paint is peeling off, but is see no mold growth on the surface. When I noticed, I moved the furniture to reveal all the damage. It is clear that the window air conditioner was sloped back towards the house, incorrectly. In addition, I can see the drip stains on the exterior walls where water overflowed dripped down. I do not know how to handle this, because I am sure there is mold in the wall cavity and on the insulation. I know how to repair the physical damage. I would tear out the paneling and sheet rock that I think behind it. Remove all the insulation and replace with new material. Obviously remove the air conditioner and repair any other wood damage I find when I tear into the wall. My concern is the mold and air quality as this is my young daughter's room. I am worried that demo would spread the mold spores everywhere. I bought one of those mold tests from HD, and some mold is growing on the dish. Can someone give me advice on how I should go about safely repairing this mold and water damage issue?
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
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    #2

    Sep 28, 2009, 06:22 AM

    You do have to remove the damaged area.
    I would not have her in there during the repair, and just block off what you can from that room. During the major part of the work and clean up, make sure you keep things sealed off. You may even want your daughter someplace else while the work and clean up is being done. Don't forget about safety for yourself too.
    Make sure any material left is dry and not at all damp.

    Now, can you send a picture to help everyone help you on the project?
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Sep 28, 2009, 05:58 PM

    Thanks! Is this something I can/should do myself, condering the mold that will need to be removed? Or should I hire a professional mold removal company. I see some red mold white and one green mold green colony on the agar culture plate. I am going to send this into the lab to identify the actual species they are, but does anyone have any insight on the danger of this mold and how best to kill them.
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Sep 28, 2009, 06:25 PM
    Here are some picts of the damaged wall. There is no mold or mildew smell, but I know it has to be inside the wall. And as I mentioned I bought a mold test kit from HD, I left it open for an hour on the floor by that wall and it is growing green and red mold colonies. Your advice would be much appreciated.
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    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #5

    Sep 28, 2009, 06:54 PM

    Your really not going to know how bad it is until you start removing a piece of the wall.

    You do want to wear a respirator. You do want to contain the area. You do want to remove the material gently. You may wish to vacuum with a HEPA equipped vacuum cleaner. Wear gloves and bag the removed material. Ventilate with positive pressure to contain mold to the same room. Close off any AC ducts with plastic. Remove what you can from the room before starting the project especially mattresses. Use spray disinfectant before starting.

    Remember that drywall is a perfect medium to grow mold.

    A mix of TSP (Tri-sodium phosphate), water and bleach should kill the mold. Painted surfaces exposed to TSP will have to be repainted. TSP is available at a hardware store.
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Sep 28, 2009, 07:19 PM

    Do you think this is something I should try to do myself or hire a professional. How much danger am I risking to myself and family. Also, how would I ventilate with positive pressure? We don't have any duct work, hence the window a/c. so the door is the only real opening out of the room other than the windows. Thank you!
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #7

    Sep 28, 2009, 10:14 PM

    Here is a good website with lots of info: Black Mold Removal + Lung Protection

    I just ordered 4 packages of vinyl gloves from here: http://www.oakgloves.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=47

    The matt like things that they have are basically sticky pads where you enter and exit an area to keep powders from tracking.

    Tyvek coveralls with bootys are nice too: Tyvek Coveralls Search Results Tyvek Coveralls - Cole-Parmer Catalog

    Positive pressure basically means an exhaust fan.

    A powered respirator would put you in a different class. You basically want disposable clothing and you don't want to track the spores.

    The N95 disposable repirators I use when my allergies act up. The Tyvek suits with booties are nice. I've worn them too.
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
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    #8

    Sep 29, 2009, 06:08 AM

    I am agreeing with KISS. When you are doing the work yourself, where clothes and layers that cover your arms, head etc. That way you can strip them off quickly and put them in the wash, or plastic bag before you shower.

    Take that air conditioner out and if you can, just move the materials that you take off right through that window until you get to the studs.
    Remember to close off your duct/vent to this room.

    (also, before using the air unit again, it will need to be cleaned). Do you have a basement? Can you see any damage below this area?
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Sep 29, 2009, 07:27 AM

    Thank you for the advice. But now my real question is... is this something I should even attempt myslf considering the apperent risk inferred by the amount of protective gear required?
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #10

    Sep 29, 2009, 08:12 AM

    The protective gear serves two purposes:
    1. containment
    2. don't breathe it or get it into your eyes

    You just don't know what you will find. You may have some structural damage to deal with. The sooner you delay the more mold you will have.
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Sep 29, 2009, 08:22 AM

    I understand that, but should I hire a professional considering the potential risk?
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #12

    Sep 29, 2009, 09:04 AM

    We can't make that decision for you. You have to be comfortable doing the work. It's not asbestos. You don't know the extent. Tough to get estimates.

    You really need to get the sticky pads and put at the entrance of the room and get everything out and seal the room up so it doesn't spread.

    Then vacuum everything loose. Rip and contain the loose material. Do the recommended wipes (Borax).

    You may not have that much. You might have rotten wood, so the AC has to come out of there.
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
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    #13

    Sep 30, 2009, 08:52 AM

    You do not even know what is behind there.
    Protective covering is for that "unknown".

    The advice given here to you is for the worst case, and what you can't know. You should always be thinking about that part. But you shouldn't be so afraid, you are frozen into not doing anything.

    Being prepaired is your best offense. You do the things that are mentioned, and anything that may occur to you as you are there to see it, smell it. Then open the walls up. If you see damage that you are unsure of, then post it here, or make a decision to hire someone else.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #14

    Sep 30, 2009, 09:24 AM

    If you want a first order approach.
    1. Wear a trash bag suit. It works pretty resonabll. Cut out arm cutout and make a skirt, so to speak.
    2. Wear a hat, gloves, rspitator (about $10),
    3. Tape up the area with a drop cloth.
    4. Move some of the furniture away from the area
    5. Remove the paneling carefully.
    6. Cut out the drywall
    7. assess the damage
    8. Take some pictures
    9. Put drywall in plastic bag.
    10. Wrap paneling in plastic. Seal.
    11. Enclose the area.
    12. Assess the damage and determine the best course of action.

    You could, in fact if you decide to do this, make a wooden frame and make a small araa of containment rather than a whole room. Smaller is probably better.
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Sep 30, 2009, 06:38 PM

    Thanks for the advice!

    Have you guy heard of shockwave and immobilzer? What should I do about the baby furniture, stuffed animals, crib and crib mattress which were/are in the room. Do they need to be cleaned? What if there are mold spores on them? Especially the mattress which was reletively close to the wall with the damage. How about the clothes that were in the room.

    Thanks for the walkthrough and pep talk!
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #16

    Sep 30, 2009, 08:11 PM

    Yipes! Now your making it more complicated. A kids room and kids things.

    Ok, here's what I might do.

    Get some UV goggles such as these: 98000202 - UV Blocking Goggles

    And a UV light source which operates at xxx such as this one.

    Amazon.com: Germ Guardian LW18 UV-C Light Wand: Health & Personal Care

    Which is considered short UV light at 253.7 nm or 254 nm
    Germicidal Lamps, UV Lamps, Germicidial Ultraviolet Lamp

    And use it to scan the items at close range to kill the mold spores.

    Launder what you can in hot water. You can disinfect and hard non-porous surfaces that won't come in contact with a kids mouth or food.

    Use a dishwasher for food items.

    You really can't clean a mattress. Vacuum and use the lamp.

    For a more complete kill, you can rent an Ozone generator. e.g. Ozone Generators
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Sep 30, 2009, 09:29 PM

    Great advice. Thank you! The matress is one of those hypoallergenic, plastic coated matresses. Some one told me to throw it out. But it seems like there is nothing wrong with it and as long as I clean it iit should be fine. I got the uv lamp you suggested and plan on using that on it... what are your thought about the matress? I opened the wall and there is minimal mold growth. It is not the dangerous black mold, I had some people in for estimates and I asked a lot of question. They suggested wiping the toyes down with what they say is a safe anti mold product called immobilizer. Any idea what that is? I figure either way I will go over the stuff with the uv light for good measure. Do I really need the goggles?
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #18

    Sep 30, 2009, 10:32 PM

    I did find this: C:\Documents and Settings\abnormal\Local Settings\Temp\Disaster Recovery.mk-1-6.doc

    Imomilizing may be a concept and not a product.

    Your mattress should be fine. Use borax or what's recommended in the above document.

    At the very least wear PLASTIC goggles. That should block most of the UV. DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE LIGHT SOURCE.

    Here is a specific resource rather thanthe general ones: Treating Mold Impacted Furniture and Personal Items: MOLD SERVICES GROUP

    Seems like alcohol is a good bet.

    So, basically we addressed this as a major catastophie and it ended up being a little bit bigger than mold in the shower except for the cleanup to limit exposure for the kids toys.

    Looks like you can rent an ozone generator too: Ozone Generator Rentals - Ozone Generator Rental

    If you need too.
    cyberheater's Avatar
    cyberheater Posts: 321, Reputation: 12
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    #19

    Oct 1, 2009, 05:56 AM

    A plastic covering on crib matteress should be okay to clean.

    Toys that you can put in the tub and run water and bleach, soaking and then wiping clean should work.

    Wash stuff animals in the washer on gentle.

    You can use all the equipment too. Did you have a mold test done? Once you have all the materials that have been damaged replaced, you should make sure there is no dampness before closing up the wall. Do this only after work.

    When sheetrocking, even if this is only a partial area, you put in your new insulation, and vapor barriers. Wrap your stud framing that surrounds the window. (They have something now that well shel adhere).
    jjustinia's Avatar
    jjustinia Posts: 136, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Oct 1, 2009, 09:17 AM

    what should I use as a vapor barrier over the insulation and what r-value insulation should I go for? What do you mean by wrapping the stud. I am painting the studs with an encapsulation paint, like fosters 40 20, to prevent future mold growth.

    Actually, any recommendations you have to building this exterior wall back in the best possible way would be very appreciated.

    I also wonder what I can do to prevent the water from coming back in the window sill the way it did.

    there is no decayed wood. The sill looks solid and the stud are fully intact, although the studs are totally wet. It is obvious the water was coming from the window sill. I have an old window, then a space and then a storm window. One mistake I made was caulking the gap at the bottom of the storm. I will remove that caulk. The other thing I was thinking is if the caulk was causing the air conditioner condensation to pool on the sill, the water might have been running into the side of the exterior sill. The air conditioner was sloped backwards so that was why so much water was coming into the sill area. Maybe I can caulk that to prevent the water intrusion in the future. I will take pics tomorrow, I have the room sealed off today.

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