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-   -   Kidnapping, Breach of Agreement, How to get my child back! (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=783251)

  • Feb 2, 2014, 11:53 AM
    choosinganangel
    Kidnapping, Breach of Agreement, How to get my child back!
    In 2001 I was awarded sole legal and physical custody of the child in question in the dispute of paternity. This was done by stipulation and agreement of the parties incorporated into a final decree. Father was granted to pay support, keep medical and if he wanted to exercise visitation he had to call 24 hours in advance or it was a no go.

    In 2006, October, I was hospitalized on the 4th. On October 6, 2006 the father came down with faked legal documents and insisted my mother (was caring for my children temporarily) give our child to him.

    On October 13 I was released to find my child had been taken out of state by the parent with no rights just obligations.

    For 6 months he held the child against his will and refused my demands to return the child, and suddenly he sends a "new decree" saying he's got sole custody, and yet our original stipulation and agreement forever discharged each party from any and all claims demands or actions asserted in the Cross-Claim. (his requests were custody, visitation, support and insurance coverage of child)... how could he even have a new decree based on this alone? Didn't he just agree in initial decree to no parental rights, just obligations?
  • Feb 2, 2014, 12:00 PM
    cdad
    You can't give up future rights. What was in writing and approved by the courts wasnt totally valid when it was signed off. Either parent could have gone back and have it changed. There wasnt an adoption or anything of the sort. So it wasnt meant to be forever.

    The time to act would have been back in 2006. What is the reasoning for waiting until 2014 to do anything about it? What courts were used for the first agreement and then the one you claim he has now? Were they different? If so did they follow the rules of uccjea ?

    Do you have a lawyer working on this? What has changed ?
  • Feb 2, 2014, 12:32 PM
    stinawords
    So 7 1/2 years ago your ex, the father of the child, took the child. And now you are wanting to do something about it? What state are you in? What state is the child in? What have you been doing for the last 7 1/2 years? As already pointed out agreements like that can be changed by going back to court. The original court order was back in 2001 by 2006 a judge would listen to the case again if one of the parties petitioned the court for a modification.

    Have you kept in contact with the other parent and child? You are asking how to get the child back. I would recommend getting a lawyer in whatever area has jurisdiction now and go back to court. How old is the child now? S/he has to be at least 12 (but probably older). In some states, not all, if the child (of that age or older) has a preference the judge will listen to what the child wants. That doesn't mean the child gets to choose but that the judge will take their opinion into consideration.
  • Feb 2, 2014, 01:14 PM
    ScottGem
    First, how do you know the documents he used in 2006 were faked? Second, what court issued this decree?

    But the question of what have you been doing for 7 1/2 yrs is valid. While parental kidnapping was not as well established then as it is now. The facts, according to you, are that he violated a standing court order and grabbed the child and has been keeping the child from you.

    What you should have done is go to the court that issued the order and ask that a warrant be issued for him to return the child or face arrest for contempt of court. Such an order would have been honored by another state. If he was hiding from you, I would have called in the
    FBI.

    As cdad stated, unless rights were terminated, he had a right to go back to court and apply for a change. But he would have had to go back to the court that issued the original order and you would have had to have been informed and given a chance to respond.

    So for us to help, we really need to know what has been happening since 2006. Also any question on law needs to include your general locale as laws vary by area.
  • Feb 2, 2014, 03:06 PM
    AK lawyer
    Other than the obvious question of why she has apparently done nothing for the past eight years, I would also point out that
    1. The second decree appears to be invalid as being in violation of OCCJEA; and
    2. The second decree would have problems for apparent invalid service of process.

    OP needs to get an attorney of course.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 01:33 AM
    choosinganangel
    Okay, here's the facts.

    After I got out of the hospital, my mother said he handed her legal documents, which were fraudulent cause no judge signed them. The one the judge did sign said specifically, "Must be served on the defendant". So he knew I was in the hospital, couldn't serve me, so he left my mother with what she had no idea were not legal papers. I called him immediately to demand he bring my child back because he was going against a court order, and he laughed and said I was never going to get custody of my child again and hung up. Refused calls, mail, texts wouldn't respond, emails and such. Meanwhile I've got DCFS in my life (the child he took was in their records too) and yes I knew jurisdiction was here, so when he finally "served me by certified mail" on the 16th of October, (mind you this is 10 days now he kidnapped my child) I responded with how he lied about everything he claimed in the temporary order. He claimed being the primary parent, the child lived in his state for 6 months and so on. I then put in my own motion to dismiss based on improper venue, and for some odd fricken reason, I didn't get any response on anything, and mind you I'm still dealing with DCFS down here, and finally I get a notice of hearing on April 4, 2007!! He totally kidnapped my child for 6.5 months before a hearing was set!! In that time, he changed where he lived, never notifying me, wouldn't answer my calls and when he did wouldn't let me talk to my son, and would never allow me to visit or see my son.

    Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything... but after I got home, praying to get some money to get my son back, I start getting things in the mail, like a response to my motion to dismiss... (backdated Nov 15, 2006) even though the petitioners attorney had no clue of the motion on file on April 5, 2007... then child support order and this fraudulent modified custody order... so I had no clue what to do.

    I knew what he was doing to my son mentally and I knew he had money for attorneys and I didn't so I didn't want to do anything till I could assure my child wouldn't have to go through any "if ands or butts anymore" and let's just say I'm not a rich person by any means.

    Well in December last year, 2013, after months of being denied or (not answered) I tried getting visitation, and instead I got belittled, yelled at, threatened my life, and so I got mad, real mad. I mean this guy has tried to alienate me and my child from one another, demeaned me and tried to convince my child to hate me in every way possible, and I'd had it. So I started ordering all the court files on record. I found there is no Motion to Modify Custody, there is no affidavit to a motion to modify, and then I remembered how he got my son! He tried to get police to serve illegal documents on my mother and they refused, so I called the police in the city I used to live, and low and behold, they had record of him coming in with documents they would not serve because they lacked a judge's signature. He then asked them" if they could assist him in keeping the peace while he got his son from the bus stop". He had no set visitation, and I was never given 24 hour notice as stated to be required if he wanted to exercise visitation. So as the police stood by trying to "supposedly keep the peace" he handed my mother these illegal documents, saying, "Just pack his things, you don't want to cause a scene, and that's why the police are here."... I hate him!!

    And yes, it took me 7 years, to figure out that the documents were fraudulent because I thought... or trusted, that you can't just file illegal documents in any court file you want to and it's acknowledged as legal. And yes, under the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act, the jurisdiction was here, until he kidnapped him for 6.5 months. Which is why I didn't understand why my motion to dismissed based on Improper Venue was not accepted. But hello, it should have been by default! ARGH! Oh and the decree is by stipulation and agreement, (he's only got rights to pay child support, provide medical insurance, and if I say, have visitation.)
  • Feb 3, 2014, 01:38 AM
    choosinganangel
    Oh and just since I forgot, in my ranting off facts, I was in Utah, and he was Wyoming. The initial decree was issued in Wyoming, but it was to be a full, complete, binding and final decree and it states here, "Any Court Order or Decree pursuant to WS 20-2-201 -204 and 311(d) can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or petition for modification.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 05:40 AM
    ScottGem
    Did the police, in fact, come with him to get your son? If so and you have proof that the police knew the documents were not valid, I would file suit against the police department.

    You didn't make it clear what the DCFS issue was about.

    But the bottom line here is that he violated a court order. It may be too late now to get the Wyoming court to issue a warrant, but that's the first thing I would try. I would also go to the FBI and pursue parental kidnapping charges.

    Part of the problem here is that you were going up against his lawyers without one of your own. That's a recipe for disaster. His lawyers will know how to play the system.

    How old is your son now? He would have to be at least 14. Frankly, with more than 6 years of brain washing, it might be impossible to recover him.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 07:54 AM
    stinawords
    Okay, so if I'm reading this right, you were in Wyoming when the original order back in 2001 was made. If that is true, how long after did you move to Utah? That decree is final until modified by the court again. That is why it says that it "can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filling an appropriate motion or petition for modification." Meaning that the modification would not be valid before anyone filled for the modification but can be modified. It wasn't set in stone forever with out the possibility of change.

    That being said I agree that your biggest downfall was trying to fight his attorney(s) by yourself. Did you make DCFS aware that he was no longer with you? Did that help to clear up their concerns about him or make it worse? Have you talked to a couple attorneys to see what they want to take on your case?

    You also said that you checked with the court and no motions for modification were ever filled. Did you check with both courts or just one? Knowing that he has at least one lawyer they would know what and where to file.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 08:15 AM
    choosinganangel
    The police don't say they assisted in keeping the peace, but they didn't say they didn't either. Yes, I have the police narratives that say the police told him they needed something signed by a judge.

    My son wants to be here, and I'm fighting cause he's ruined my child as far as mental and physical and emotional health go. Shortly after being stolen by his paternal parent, he was diagnosed emotionally disturbed. Now he's severely emotionally disturbed. Weighs 194 lbs, hasn't been to get a blood draw in the 2 years he's been on Abilify and has not been to a dentist in two years and has obvious cavities. Oh let us not forget that I have proof that the father changed the middle name of the child so he could put him in schools and I am thinking so he could get illegal medicaid.

    Oh wait, his father also has a child abuse charge from 3 years prior to the kidnapping, and I have him recorded stating he hates me and my other child (who he has been stalking), because we told the police and he lost his teaching career. I mean shall I go on?

    I am putting in a motion to vacate the order he put in, due to improper process and fraud and illegal activity by the father that led to the falsified order. The judge sent it back stating a couple things, so I think he's telling me to ensure the points in the motion. His note was "I will not sign. No compliance with notice requirements of Rule 65. No compliance with the Rule 801 Uniform Rules for District Court. No showing this court has jurisdiction."

    So does this mean I have to put in a certificate of service to the kidnapper with the motion and claim the jurisdiction is in the court pursuant to the Wyoming Statute 20-2-203?
  • Feb 3, 2014, 08:21 AM
    talaniman
    Why have you not called the states attorney where he lives or the DCFS in the state he resides? You paint a compelling case for criminal charges.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 08:56 AM
    ScottGem
    I think stinawords may have misread something or I did. I got the impression that you got the original order in WY and you are still there, but that the father moved the child to Utah. Is that correct?

    I must have misunderstood. I thought you said the police went with him to pick up your son.

    But I agree with Tal. Go to the local FBI office TODAY with what proof you have. Seek their advice or assistance.

    From what you have said, it sounded like you have had little or no contact, so how do you know so much your son's medical conditions and treatment? And you never answered how old he is.

    As for filing a petition with the court. The judge is apparently being a stickler for form and wants the paperwork filled out properly. Probably because he knows your husband has attorneys so wants to make sure they can't tear things apart. If you can't afford an attorney, then check with local law schools. Many have clinics that will help you prepare the paperwork.

    But you have to be relentless with this and you haven't been.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:09 AM
    cdad
    I dont agree with going to the FBI at this time. There really is no reason for it. The OP needs to calm down if they want to get anywhere.

    To OP:

    How much of the paper trail do you actually have in hand at this time? Are you sure you have all of it? If the case priginated in Wyoming then it is for now the juridiction of the Wyoming dourts so long as one of the parties still lives there. That is the only court you need to deal with.

    You can try overturning for improper service but so much time has passed I think it is a waste of time. You can file for a modification and present your evidence at the hearing / trial. Otherwise you risk wasting the courts time with accusations and rehashing the past.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:21 AM
    ScottGem
    I don't believe filing for a modification is the best move. Doing so tacitly acknowledges the false petitions filed by the father. The OP has a standing order issued by the court. According to her, no valid court orders have been issued to change that order. Therefore any attempts to process an order by another court should be vacated as lacking jurisdiction and the existing order should be enforced.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:28 AM
    talaniman
    The OP has two states attorneys to air her concerns and initiate an investigation Wyoming and Utah. I would contact them both.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:28 AM
    cdad
    Here in lies the problem. We dont know how much of the paper trail the OP is actually seeing. Also it appears that somewhere along the line there is a secondary standing order from the courts. The one the OP makes claim of from 2007. Too much time has passed to hold the courts interest and the ultimate goal is the return of the child. By filing for a modification then it can all be laid out. If the OP is correct then the courts will make the change. If not then things will stand as they are. I understand the OP is upset but they are making allegations and then proving them false in this thread. If you have no contact that is exactly what it means. But yet they claim to know the condition of the child and to have spoken to them. Which is it? The courts have the power to quash the previous order if it has no standing. But if the OP goes in making wild claims and it is of no legal standing then the courts will weight it out and make a decision.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:34 AM
    ScottGem
    I do agree the OP has issued some conflicting statements. I've questioned some of them too. And the amount of time that has passed is a cause for concern. I'm just not sure any admission that any order issued after 2001 is valid would serve the OP. At lot depends, though, on how factual the information she's posted is.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 11:51 AM
    cdad
    This is what I see that has the most telling part of this so far.

    The OP said:
    Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything...

    To me it means they attended the hearing that was in 2007. It doesnt appear that things were followed through at that time. The OP was there in front of a judge when the decision was made. It appears the OP was given time to attend as the hearing was for a default judement. From those events Im not sure what has been going on. I believe the OP tried to go at it alone and was overwhelemed. Its not hard to do with the judicial system. But they did have thier day in court. That is why I dont recommend going to the FBI at this time. If OP can prove documents were falsified then the judge can order that looked into by the Ag.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 12:29 PM
    talaniman
    There are too many unknown factors and inconsistencies for any of us to assume what the OP's next action should be except borrow money for a real consultation with a lawyer (free consultation?) or file a complaint for free with state officials.

    Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 12:38 PM
    ScottGem
    Quote:

    Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.
    Totally agree. Plus an ex who had money and could manipulate the system. Just wondering why it took him 5 years to pull this in the first place. Maybe he just saw his opportunity when the OP was hospitalized. Though this smacks of some planning.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 12:46 PM
    cdad
    Scott it may have been a factor that the OP at that time was involved with dcfs. The ex may have seen that as a golden opportunity. We dont know anything about what was going on at that time.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 02:43 PM
    stinawords
    It is entirely possible that I didn't understand what op was saying about what states people are in. "I was in Utah, and he was Wyoming" I took this to mean that (because the original order was in Wyoming) they were both in Wyoming to get the original order and she moved to Utah while the father stayed in Wyoming. In the last post from op it say's at note from the judge to op included that the court he presides in does not have jurisdiction.

    This, as well as the contradicting statements with not having contact but yet knowing large amounts of the child's lack of care, and the involvement of DCFS makes it hard for many to agree on what exactly should be the next step. I too would not advise contacting the FBI. At least not until a lawyer (in the proper state) has time to get all the facts in front of them because this seems to be a very large tangled situation not just a straight forward violation of court order.

    And, so, until op comes back to untangle some of this, I (at least) can't offer much more.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 07:11 PM
    choosinganangel
    OMG you guys... due to the rules of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction And Enforcement Act , his entire order to modify the initial decree is null and void!

    He took the child on October 6, 2006 from the child's Home State, Utah. He supposedly was awarded custody on April 4, 2007. That is void by the fact that the Jurisdiction or Courts of Wyoming had not been established as the home state by 1 day! He lived in Wyoming with his Kidnapping father for exactly 5 months 29 days... He loses either way! Oh man oh man... to file these papers is going to bring so much relief.

    His parental rights will certainly be terminated after this... thank the good lord.

    Oh and in case you all weren't told yet, the case with DCFS was void as were all the allegations in a court of law. All of his allegations and statements in the petition for temporary custody were lies, not proven in any way shape or form and even in his fake Modified Decree, are fake statements of supposed facts that are in no way true.

    Isn't there just a simple letter I can send to the courts to look over the case file and ensure it's not been tampered or wrong?
  • Feb 3, 2014, 07:47 PM
    stinawords
    In one sentence you say that "to file these papers is going to bring so much relief" as though you have papers ready to file. Then in the same post you ask if there isn't just a simple letter you can send the court. Which one is it?

    Also, why in the world would we have been told that the DCFS case was void? We don't dig into things like that we rely only on what you tell us. That is where a paid attorney comes into play.

    Why did the judge you last talked about say that the court didn't have jurisdiction? So to be clear the child, until taken by his father, never lived in Wyoming. Correct? Have you scheduled any consultations with any lawyers to represent you yet? If not and the father still has attorney's you are still fighting an up hill battle.

    If you are so sure that you are the only parent with legal custody then why are you sitting here asking for free advice? Why not just go pick up your son? If you are scared of your ex bring your court papers showing that you have physical custody with you and ask for a police escort like he did.
  • Feb 3, 2014, 07:50 PM
    ScottGem
    First, you have said that the original order was issued in WY. Therefore, WY Has jurisdiction until the case is moved to another jurisdiction. However, it is true that preference is given to the child's home state. But one of the parties would have to petition for jurisdiction to be moved. So, if he filed in WY, telling WY it didn't have jurisdiction was incorrect. If, however, you had petitioned that the case be moved to Utah, you should have won that.

    And I doubt if he parental rights will be terminated. Not unless he is convicted of criminal action in these matters and even then its not a given.

    Maybe he didn't prove the allegations, but did you disprove them? A court of law can be a funny place, in many ways it can be up to the whim of the judge as long as he acts within the law.
  • Feb 4, 2014, 05:30 PM
    choosinganangel
    I went to Wyoming today and put in for a motion and order to show cause... he's going to be a gonner! Can't wait to get that order in the mail... cause either he surrenders the kid and pays me 43,500 or he's in contempt! Woot Woot!
  • Feb 4, 2014, 05:41 PM
    stinawords
    So the judge already told you that he will be returning the child and paying $43,500? Glad they worked so quickly for you!
  • Feb 4, 2014, 05:53 PM
    ScottGem
    What, exactly, does the order say? Generally an order to show cause gives the subject the opportunity to appear in court and show cause why he shouldn't whatever.
  • Feb 4, 2014, 05:55 PM
    choosinganangel
    To Stinawords: The judge stated that I did not mention in the order to vacate that the court had jurisdiction over this case, and I didn't do proper service. Then after figuring out last night, that when calculated, his court order is totally fraudulent. The child lived in Wyoming from October 6, and the court hearing about a judgement default on a "emergency motion for ex-parte temporary custody order" no motion was put in requesting to modify the original order, and it could never have been considering the day we went to court was April 4, 2007, which equals 5 months 29 days. No commencement of any action of custody can even start unless the child resides in the state for 6 months prior to the proceeding. So him claiming the judgement was ordered April 4th, still makes it invalid, and never in the hearing did I hear the judge "order" anything, so his entire filing with the court an order that was never initiated (because it couldn't have been had he attached an been truthful about a previous order existing), but he said he never was a party to any other litigation concerning said child in this or any state. Also claimed that to his knowledge, no one had temporary or physical custody of the child. Everything he claimed was just a huge lie... he's in deep doo doo, and I can't wait till the Sheriff serves him, cause he either returns the child and pays up, or shows up at the hearing and goes to jail anyway. :D Then I can bring the evidence down here to the police department in the city where he did take the child (which I already have a parental kidnapping case being investigated) Interstate no less, and they can prosecute him even further. :D I'm so excited I could poop!
  • Feb 4, 2014, 06:07 PM
    choosinganangel
    No, I put in the motion and order and affidavit, and service and summons today. I filed it all with the court and paid for service by the Sheriff when the judge signs the order. Wyoming is whack. The judge is in Kemmerer for some of the week and then in Evanston the other part, and so tomorrow he will see it, look over the files in the case, (which by now I know he is completely familiar with, and the Order I attached, which is the original "Final" decree, and once he signs it, it will be served on the father. :D I'm just anxiously awaiting the Green light that service was completed, and then there is a "dismissed" page, where if he and I sign it, he won't have to appear in court to show why he shouldn't be held in contempt, and mind you, that means he returned the child and paid up. If I don't sign it, even if he returns the child, and doesn't pay up, he still has to appear. I can't wait to see him in court trying to convince the judge that his "fake order" is legal :D Oh and where he thought he had permission in the decree to changed the child's name, lie about everything in his initial motion for temporary custody, and oh yeah, why he's in violation of bringing any action against me to which said decree states that the parties hereby completely release and forever discharge each other from any and all claims, demands, or actions now asserted in or arising from, those asserted in the Cross-Claim. :D
  • Feb 4, 2014, 06:48 PM
    choosinganangel
    The Order says:
    The Movant is seeking ENFORCEMENT of an Order regarding visitation custody child support. The affidavit is what I'm claiming he did in violation of the order, and continues to do. Not to mention the fact that the original Decree states, and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or petition for modification.
  • Feb 4, 2014, 06:50 PM
    choosinganangel
    Trust me I've looked at the motion to Modify.. it's like a huge packet, and yeah, he did not in any way whatsoever filed any or all of the required documents.
  • Feb 4, 2014, 07:24 PM
    ScottGem
    Good luck and keep us posted.
  • Feb 5, 2014, 02:32 AM
    choosinganangel
    Wowzer, scratch everything... it's not an order... our initial papers are an ABSOLUTE DECREE. Final.. suck it up, you are a loser and you know it, and I'm just going to show it to the world that you are lower than the lowest, by letting you be you... and then you can die in prison, for filing false documents in this state and the other state which never signed, but you forged, and every state will have your head on a platter, waiting to get justice! Decree and order, are completely different... Decree is FINALITY... I fricken knew it... oh let him burn in hell.. or in jail, cause he's already in hell... I'm requesting school records, where he is enrolled under a "fake name", and I already looked into the registration laws of the school, which states they need a birth certificate, and blah blah blah... so they didn't make a mistake in the paper, they have copies on file of his criminal behavior... oh and yeah, I sent off for all birth certificates on file with the vital statistics in Wyoming... and just for proof positive... the other school he was enrolled in, right around the corner from his house, had my son registered under another FAKE NAME! They sent me a damned report card from 2008-2009... and I barely opened it, cause I couldn't bring myself to accept that my son, was taken and then given and legally allowed (couldn't wrap my mind around it) to be kidnapped and taken when I knew the decree was permanent... I've always insisted his father stole him... always... and had his father not threatened my life in December... I may still have been in the dark, but that pissed me off and made me fight... and fight hard... son of a...
  • Feb 5, 2014, 05:38 AM
    ScottGem
    I'm sorry but your understanding of the law leaves a lot to be desired. An absolute decree does not mean it is absolutely final. It means that the marriage is completely over and both parties are free to remarry. It does not mean he can't file for modification of the terms of the agreement at some future time if he can justify that modification. But it does not mean he can falsify documents or violate the terms of the decree. He must abide by those terms until and unless a court modifies them.

    If he does violate them, then he is in contempt of court. Being found to be in contempt of court carries penalties pretty much at the discretion of the judge. Those penalties can be anywhere from a fine to jail time. A "Show Cause" order is probably stating that he has to appear at a hearing to show why he should not be found in contempt. You said it reads; "The Movant is seeking ENFORCEMENT of an Order regarding visitation custody child support.". This is what I said you should have done as soon as you found out he had taken your son. The Movant is you. And you are moving that the court enforce the original decree issued in 2001 since there has been no legal order modifying it. You needed to submit proof that he has violated that agreement, which is pretty obvious.

    So the next step is serving him with the order. I would hire a process server to ensure service. You can ask the court that he reimburse you for your court costs.

    I'm assuming that the order states that he must return the child to you and pay any arrears in child support. My guess is he is going to do one of two things. Either he is going to try and disappear or he is going to court to fight it and will produce whatever evidence he can that he didn't violate the decree. If he has a good job, I doubt if he will disappear as that would mean going underground.

    Does the order give a time frame by which he has to comply?
  • Feb 5, 2014, 10:00 AM
    stinawords
    I have to agree that that interpretation of the wording is not quite right. In any order there should be a time frame given by the judge to comply. What is that time frame? Also, if he has lawyer(s) are they going to show up in court as well? For quite a while I have been wondering who drew up the papers that he has been using. Did his lawyer(s) help with that too? I am wondering because if they did forge documents that he used the judge may hold them as (if not more) responsible. Do you have any idea where/how the illegal documents were obtained?

    I'm glad you are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
  • Feb 5, 2014, 06:14 PM
    cdad
    When is your hearing date or date for trial ?
  • Feb 5, 2014, 09:45 PM
    choosinganangel
    I'm going to call in the morning to find out if the judge signed and when the hearing date is. All I know is they said it was going to be in his papers to look over today, and after he signed it they would place it in the "service" box, where the Sheriff come's daily and serves people. I left it with the service payment so as to not have any hiccups. Yes, my fear is that he will flee, and yet, he's already under the microscope with DCFS and all the state and local authorities both in Utah and Wyoming are all aware of my claims so they might already have him tracked without his knowledge. His fake decree, I cannot be certain as to who drafted it, because he began the "action" pro-se, and when I answered with a demand to return my child immediately he quit answering my calls and refused any mail from me. Apparently moved as well, and when we showed up in court on April 4, 2007 he had an attorney that wasn't a participant to the initial action, so I've no idea, who did what, but I do know that the attorney asked the judge to be allowed to withdraw from representation based on certain laws (which he has in there, which pertain to "repugnant" client requests, criminal in nature) code of professional conduct.

    And as per the Decree thing, it is final. All of the terms agreed to in the Stipulation and Agreement were made final, absolute and binding. All parties forever released and discharged each other from any claims, actions or demands granted relief once incorporated in a final decree incorporating the terms of the Stipulation and Agreement. Any modification of said decree or agreement, must be made in writing by the parties, and upon filing an appropriate motion.

    The parties hereby stipulate and agree:
    1. That if a final Paternity Decree is granted and awarded to
    Either of the parties incorporating the provisions contained
    Herein, the terms of this Stipulation and Agreement shall
    Constitute a full, complete and final settlement between the
    2
    Parties with regard to certain rights and duties arising from their
    Relationship, specifically with regard to their respective rights
    To custody of the minor Child, child support payments in connection
    Therewith, insurance coverage for said Child, visitation rights to
    Said Child, and all other matters at issue in the Cross-Claim.
    2. That the parties intend that the terms of this Agreement
    Shall be incorporated into any final Decree of Paternity and
    Support ("Decree") made and entered herein.

    1. Release and Discharge:
    In consideration of the mutual promises called for herein, and
    For other good and valuable consideration, receipt of which is
    Hereby acknowledged, the parties hereby completely release and
    Forever discharge each other from any and all claims, demands or
    Actions now asserted in or arising from, those asserted in the
    Cross-Claim. This release shall be a fully binding and complete
    Settlement of said claims asserted in the Cross-Claim, between
    Father and Mother, upon execution of this Agreement and the filing
    Of any Decree incorporating its terms.

    2. Specific Release
    The parties hereby acknowledge and agree that the release set
    Forth in Paragraph 1 hereof is a specific release of claims set
    Forth in the Cross-Claim, and is not a general waiver of any other
    Claims which exist as of this date but of which the parties do not
    Know or suspect to exist.

    Any modification of this Agreement must be in
    Writing and signed by the parties; no waiver of any breach hereof
    Or default hereunder shall be deemed a waiver of any subsequent
    Breach or default of the same or similar nature.
  • Feb 5, 2014, 09:57 PM
    choosinganangel
    Oh and about the time frame to comply question, there was a section after "Enforce the Order" (which mind you I attached the real decree when I filed, along with the stipulation and agreement), and the section after asked if I requested anything else from the court in which I wrote, "Assistance in the Immediate safe return of the child to the mother, and deeming his "order modifying decree" invalid, unenforceable, illegal and whatever sanctions the court further deems appropriate.
  • Feb 6, 2014, 05:56 AM
    ScottGem
    OK, First, lets look at this clause:
    Quote:

    Any modification of said decree or agreement, must be made in writing by the parties, and upon filing an appropriate motion.
    This backs up what we have been saying. That the original decree CAN be modified but only by getting a court to order it.

    Second,
    Quote:

    they said it was going to be in his papers to look over today, and after he signed it they would place it in the "service" box,
    Ok, so the judge hasn't signed the order yet, but when he does, you have already arranged for service. That's good! Its not clear whether you know where he currently is or where your son goes to school. If you know either of those. Then I would request that the judge issue you an order to assume custody of your son at least until the hearing and to also schedule a hearing. If you can get the judge to issue that order, then I would go and pick him up. If you know where the school is then I would go to the school, go to the principal and show him/her the order then take your son home. You might want to go to the local police first, show them the order and ask them to accompany you. Or, at least, be prepared to come to the school if the school doesn't cooperate.

    If you can't get such an order, then you have to wait for the hearing. If he doesn't show or turn over your son by then, an arrest warrant can be issued.

    It certainly looks like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Though this should have been done long before now.

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