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    ABehrens's Avatar
    ABehrens Posts: 28, Reputation: 6
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    #21

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem
    I must disagree. First, I am not anti-abortion. while its not a choice I would make, I understand the reasons behind making the choice.

    My points here are based not on what decisions were made, but the WAY the decisions were made. My suspicions are that the OP put a lot of pressure (whether knowingly or unknowingly) on the girl and she went along with things not because she wanted to but because he did. It could have very well been the other way around, him wanting her to keep the child and she wanting to abort.

    You are only hearing one side of the story! If she didn't want the abortion then she wouldn't have even gone to the doctor's office. So, the thought had to have crossed her mind in order for her to go. He couldn't have forced her to get an abortion. She would have had to make that decision. I agree with you on your points, it is just that is doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind the whole abortion situation. The whole point to his post is to see how he can gain full custody, which is not likely to happen and that is all that need to be said about this situation. He needs to go talk to the mother and figure things out before this child is brought into this world. This world is already screwed up enough. They need to grow up and think about what is best for their child because if they don't their child will be growing up with a lot of issues. He has every right to be a part of this child's life regardless of the fact that he was pushing the abortion.
    ABehrens's Avatar
    ABehrens Posts: 28, Reputation: 6
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    #22

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    I didn't read the post about the shelters. I was responding to this: "So, call around and talk to a few lawyers. What part of California are you in? I know some lawyers in Orange county that give free legal advice that you can call, I have to get the information if you need it."

    Yea, I am sorry, that is what I wrote. I made a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out!!
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    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #23

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ABehrens
    You are only hearing one side of the story! If she didn't want the abortion then she wouldn't have even gone to the doctor's office. So, the thought had to have crossed her mind in order for her to go. He couldn't have forced her to get an abortion. She would have had to make that decision. I agree with you on your points, it is just that is doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind the whole abortion situation. The whole point to his post is to see how he can gain full custody, which is not likely to happen and that is all that need to be said about this situation. He needs to go talk to the mother and figure things out before this child is brought into this world. This world is already screwed up enough. They need to grow up and think about what is best for their child because if they dont' their child will be growing up with a lot of issues. He has every right to be a part of this childs life regardless of the fact that he was pushing the abortion.

    I read this as more a problem with OP trying to get full custody and less an issue of visitation/support.

    And I agree - lately the board is full of parents fighting over custody, visitation, trying to prevent each other from any contact with the child. They should all grow up. Or use birth control. Either or.
    N0help4u's Avatar
    N0help4u Posts: 19,825, Reputation: 2035
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    #24

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ABehrens
    You are only hearing one side of the story! If she didn't want the abortion then she wouldn't have even gone to the doctor's office. So, the thought had to have crossed her mind in order for her to go.
    NO I have known girls to go to the abortion clinic to claim they had an abortion but it was only a smoke and mirrors thing to keep others from badgering them to from pushing the issue further and buy time.
    Sounds to me like that is very well what she may have done.
    ABehrens's Avatar
    ABehrens Posts: 28, Reputation: 6
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    #25

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by N0help4u
    NO I have known girls to go to the abortion clinic to claim they had an abortion but it was only a smoke and mirrors thing to keep others from badgering them to from pushing the issue further and buy time.
    sounds to me like that is very well what she may have done.

    Exactly, sounds to YOU, like I said, you don't have all the facts or her side of the story. So, that may be true but that is not for us to say if it is true or not.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #26

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by N0help4u
    NO I have known girls to go to the abortion clinic to claim they had an abortion but it was only a smoke and mirrors thing to keep others from badgering them to from pushing the issue further and buy time.
    sounds to me like that is very well what she may have done.


    OP sounds somewhat like a bully, his way or the highway, standing over her - she may have gone just out of fear or to shut him up.

    Or, yes, to buy time.
    N0help4u's Avatar
    N0help4u Posts: 19,825, Reputation: 2035
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    #27

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:47 AM
    ... and she does sound like a sneak that would do something like that.
    ABehrens's Avatar
    ABehrens Posts: 28, Reputation: 6
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    #28

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    I read this as more a problem with OP trying to get full custody and less an issue of visitation/support.

    And I agree - lately the board is full of parents fighting over custody, visitation, trying to prevent each other from any contact with the child. They should all grow up. Or use birth control. Either or.

    I agree. I am one of those people though, who is trying to keep my daughter's father away from us and trying to get his rights relinquished because he is on meth and when I left him he tried to slit my throat while I was holding our 1 month old baby. So please don't categorize all of us.

    But I do agree on the fact that our younger generation should grow up and start thinking about what is best for their children. But, most young people are having babies and the grandparents are taking care of the child mainly while the parents fight about who can see the baby and who can't. It is ridiculous!
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #29

    Jul 24, 2008, 08:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smokedetector
    7) She keeps lying to me and I guess this baby is going to be born anyway. Why not get back at her for lying and try to take the baby away from her?
    8) I want full custody

    It just seems like he's only wanting full custody for his own selfish reasons, namely revenge, and doesn't really care whats best for the baby. That is why I have yet to be convinced that he is "trying to be a good father now." It looks to me more like he's trying to hurt the mother (who I won't say is innocent in all this either) by getting the baby.
    Clearly the fact that she lied to him is very important to the OP. And it appears to me to be more important that the child. On the other hand, it could be an issue of well, the child is going to be born, so I want what's best for it. I would just need more convincing to believe that's the case.
    smokedetector's Avatar
    smokedetector Posts: 368, Reputation: 56
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    #30

    Jul 24, 2008, 09:23 AM
    Agreed. It could be the latter, but I'm just not seeing. Hopefully the OP will come back and try to clarify his intentions.
    Pharmacy27's Avatar
    Pharmacy27 Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #31

    Jul 24, 2008, 11:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem
    Comments on this post
    Pharmacy27 disagrees: Your a moron

    First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html

    You are entitled to your opinion, but expressing them using the comments feature was inappropriate. However, I stand by what I said. Obviously, several others read similar things into your posts, so I may have been wrong, but my interpretations appear reasonable. This hardly qualifies me as a "moron".

    I notice that rather then try to present arguments to the points I made, you resort to name-calling (a violation of the rules of this site, by the way). This makes me all the more convinced that I am right. You want to dissuade me? Then post something to argue against the conclusions I reached. Just name calling wil do nothing but result in your being banned.

    I apologize for calling you a moron. Just I don't think that a girl who can lie about a serious subject like a kid should have one. Its not a toy once it's there you can't return it. So and she has threatened to leave me with it. She has threatened to go to Colorado with it. Anything you can think of she has said. And it hurts I'm sorry I'm a man and not a little boy and if this is coming, nothing is going to stop it, I'm going to have to man up and handle the situation.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #32

    Jul 25, 2008, 06:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ABehrens
    You are only hearing one side of the story! If she didn't want the abortion then she wouldn't have even gone to the doctor's office. So, the thought had to have crossed her mind in order for her to go. He couldn't have forced her to get an abortion. She would have had to make that decision. I agree with you on your points, it is just that is doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind the whole abortion situation. The whole point to his post is to see how he can gain full custody, which is not likely to happen and that is all that need to be said about this situation. He needs to go talk to the mother and figure things out before this child is brought into this world. This world is already screwed up enough. They need to grow up and think about what is best for their child because if they dont' their child will be growing up with a lot of issues. He has every right to be a part of this childs life regardless of the fact that he was pushing the abortion.
    Yes we are only hearing one side of the story, so we have to make judgements based on that side.

    But I disagree with you in saying that she must have wanted the abortion if she went to the clinic. Whiule she couldn't be forced to actually go through the procedure, she could have been pressured to go to the clinic and then changed her mind.

    Nor am I saying that he doesn't have a right to be part of the chilkd's life. But I still think there are other issues at play here.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #33

    Jul 25, 2008, 06:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Pharmacy27
    i apologize for calling you a moron. just i dont think that a girl who can lie about a serious subject like a kid should have one. its not a toy once its there you can't return it. so and she has threatened to leave me with it. she has threatened to go to colorado with it. anything you can think of she has said. and it hurts im sorry im a man and not a little boy and if this is coming, nothing is gonna stop it, im going to have to man up and handle the situation.
    First, I must again point out the guidelines for using the comments feature. Your rating of Judy's respons was also inapporpriate. Please check the link I gave you.

    Second, Yes you need to step up and be a man, not a bully. I'm sorry, but you continue to sound like one. Yes, she sounds like she needs to grow up a lot. But you can't imagine all the pressure and changes she is being subjected to you, not the least of which seems to be coming from you. So you need to be more supportive of her not antagonistic
    smokedetector's Avatar
    smokedetector Posts: 368, Reputation: 56
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    #34

    Jul 25, 2008, 07:28 AM
    Comments on this post
    Pharmacy27 agrees: Because its too late to turn around and I couldn't picture my own kid to grow up without a father

    But you want him/her to grow up without a mother?
    N0help4u's Avatar
    N0help4u Posts: 19,825, Reputation: 2035
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    #35

    Jul 25, 2008, 07:38 AM
    You need to work out some compromise with her. Make amends with her for the sake of the baby. Go to court and work out something reasonable.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #36

    Jul 25, 2008, 08:06 AM
    [QUOTE=Pharmacy27 disagrees: I believe i asked for supportive advice, why even waste your time writing[/QUOTE]



    If you want "supportive advice" (which I would assume is not legal advice) go on a message or chat board - or go on the Oprah Show. If you want legal advice, post here.

    You are out of line - so far you've attacked both Scott and me, both times in total violation of the rules of the Board.
    Pharmacy27's Avatar
    Pharmacy27 Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #37

    Jul 25, 2008, 09:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smokedetector
    But you want him/her to grow up without a mother?
    If she threatens to give me the kid and never see me again... whether she means it or not.. doesn't deserve it, children are not games or collectibles. So if she doesn't want to be there, I don't need her help...
    Pharmacy27's Avatar
    Pharmacy27 Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #38

    Jul 25, 2008, 09:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    If you want "supportive advice" (which I would assume is not legal advice) go on a message or chat board - or go on the Oprah Show. If you want legal advice, post here.

    You are out of line - so far you've attacked both Scott and me, both times in total violation of the rules of the Board.
    Lol the word attacked is very harsh. I shot down both of your negative responses. It was really clear that I was specifically asking for help/POSITIVE ADVICE. That's all but lol attacked... lol
    smokedetector's Avatar
    smokedetector Posts: 368, Reputation: 56
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    #39

    Jul 25, 2008, 10:04 AM
    Granted, children should never be used like pawns. But there's a difference between her giving you the kid and leaving and you taking the child from her. I still don't understand your reasoning for that. It's all well and good that you want to do right by your kid, but what is your reason for trying to get full custody? In your original post, you said, "now she is telling me that she doesn't want me to be a part of the little girls life." That doesn't sound like she is wanting you to have the kid so she can bolt.

    From my perspective, this all looks like (and correct me if I'm wrong) you got her pregnant, you decided to have an abortion (and either you suggested it and offered to pay and she thought that would make you happy so she agreed, or you bullied her into it, or something in between, which I think is closer to reality), and she had been going back and forth on whether she is pregnant, now you assume (rightfully so, since she hasn't been giving any straight answers apparently) that she is indeed pregnant and you are about to have a daughter. I hope what I have said thus far is accurate, because from there I think we are not in agreement.

    Now, she is wanting you out of her life and her daughters, you are hurt that she lied to you, she has not proven to be an unfit mother, but because she's lied to you you want to hurt her back and taking the baby would be the best way to do that. You don't want your daughter growing up without a father, but growing up without a mother is OK. Now you say she says she is going to dump the baby on you and leave (which is not in line with what she has done so far, what with nixing the abortion to keep it and trying to make you believe there is no baby, presumably so you won't have anything to do with the child), and you want full custody because of that.

    Let me make this simpler:
    She has acted in a way that makes me think that she wants to keep the baby. She didn't go through with the abortion, and in what I assume to be an effort to keep you from the baby, has told you that she had a miscarriage, and later her conscious got to her and she came clean.
    You have acted in a way that makes me think you are just trying to get back at her. You wanted her to go through with the abortion, then found out she didn't and instead had a miscarriage which she blamed on you, making you feel horrible. Now, you found out that she didn't have a miscarriage either. You are hurt that she didn't go through with the abortion, not necessarily because now you're having a baby, but because she didn't include you in the decision she ultimately made. You are hurt that she lied to you about the miscarriage and it being your fault. She made you feel horrible about it and it wasn't true. You are perhaps hurt that she doesn't want you in her life anymore. So now you want to get back at her.

    I have a few questions:
    1) Did you break up before or after you found out you were pregnant, and if after, at what point?
    2) What would you say to the judge to prove that she is an unfit mother and you deserve full custody of the baby? Is there something besides what you have told us that makes her unfit to parent?
    3) If you got joint custody, would that be acceptable, or would it have to be all or nothing?
    4) You said you are 19 and she is 22. How do you expect to care for the child? She lives with family who can help her out. Do you have a job, money, stable home?

    Please try to help me understand. I want to believe you only want what is best, but all I am seeing is you are hurt that she didn't listen to you and lied to you, and then you suddenly go from not wanting the baby to wanting only you to have the baby. You see how this looks, right?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #40

    Jul 25, 2008, 10:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Pharmacy27
    lol the word attacked is very harsh. i shot down both of your negative responses. it was really clear that i was specifically asking for help/POSITIVE ADVICE. thats all but lol attacked... lol
    No, you didn't shoot down anything. To shoot something down you have to present logical and/or factual arguments to the points made. All you did was violate the guidelines for this site in giving negative comments to our responses.

    And it's that attitude that helps to prove our comments likely if not correct. Yes you asked for advice, and you have been given advice. A lot of very good advice. But sometimes, the advice we give is colored by our impressions of the situation. And that's what is happeneing here. Several of us have gotten the same impression from your posts. That you pressured, possibly even bullied, her into getting an abortion. And what has ensued is her reaction, a fairly natural reaction, to that pressure. You may not have intended to pressure her, but it is likely In my opinion that you did. And I still think you are pressuring/bullying.

    I think you need to approach this like you will be equal PARTNERS in raising this child. And that you will need to support each other in doing so.

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