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    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #21

    Feb 4, 2009, 05:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    Umm, If you were married for 16 years, that meant you would have been, at least, in your mid to late 30s when you divorced. So the too young doesn't sound right.

    Your ONLY hope is getting an attorney that can prove you were taken advantage of. A long shot at best.

    P.S. When you quote someone's post, their post is enclosed in a {quote}{/quote} bracket pair. For the quote to appear properly, you have to leave the bracketed pair
    Thank you for the posting info.

    As far as the "too young doesn't sound right" comment, I was 34 yrs old when the bomb hit, so call me stupid. You don't know my background, the way I was raised, or the dynamics of this marriage, but I don't think ANY of that matters.

    You say my "ONLY hope" is to prove I was taken advantage of... well, if that's true, I should be entitled to his WHOLE retirement and a couple body parts.
    And furthermore, if I won, the case should go down in history as the single greatest victory for women or men everywhere that have been abused.
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    dk321 Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #22

    Feb 4, 2009, 05:28 PM

    It does not matter if you were married 20 month or 20 years. You are entitled to a percentage of his retirement. Did you sign anything that stated that you waived it? I am not a lawyer nor am I legal... This is just my personal experience, but you could file a intergection with the court system. Since it is so long ago, you would really have to speak to a lawyer and bring all documentation with you. Hope this helps
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #23

    Feb 4, 2009, 05:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dk321 View Post
    It does not matter if you were married 20 month or 20 years. you are entitled to a percentage of his retirement. Did you sign anything that stated that you waived it? I am not a lawyer nor am I legal.... This is just my personal experience, but you could file a intergection with the court system. Since it is so long ago, you would really have to speak to a lawyer and bring all documentation with you. Hope this helps
    Thank you so much for this response. I didn't think all the dirty laundry matters, or the numbers. If I did waive it, in the divorce decree, is it futile to even pursue?
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #24

    Feb 4, 2009, 05:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    I think she's sure she's divorced (she mentioned having remarried as well). But yes, she has to review the divorce decree to get the answer she is looking for.
    George or Cadillac - it sounds like you both think if I waived my rights to the retirement in the divorce decree, then I'm done... no chance of anything. Is that right?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #25

    Feb 4, 2009, 06:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by floridanative View Post
    George or Cadillac - it sounds like you both think if I waived my rights to the retirement in the divorce decree, then I'm done....no chance of anything. Is that right?
    All three of us think that. As I said, the only chance is if you can convince a court that you were taken advantage of. And that's a long shot.
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    George_1950 Posts: 3,100, Reputation: 236
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    #26

    Feb 4, 2009, 07:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by floridanative View Post

    I am not married. Since the divorce in 1987 (22 yrs ago) I was remarried for less than 2 years, and that was in 2003.
    Thank you for the info/your response.
    I'm not trying to be picky, but if you don't have a copy of your divorce and if you have never seen the decree, how do you know that you are divorced?

    As for the waiver, the law varies from state to state and can depend of various circumstances, such as whether you had a lawyer or whether there is an 'express' waiver, or 'implied' waiver.

    But the starting point is for you to get a copy of the entire file; read it and let us know what it says, and what state you are in. There is a limited amount of legal research that can be done just using Google; that is why you need to speak with a knowledgeable practitioner in your state.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #27

    Feb 4, 2009, 10:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    I'm not trying to be picky, but if you don't have a copy of your divorce and if you have never seen the decree, how do you know that you are divorced?

    As for the waiver, the law varies from state to state and can depend of various circumstances, such as whether you had a lawyer or whether there is an 'express' waiver, or 'implied' waiver.

    But the starting point is for you to get a copy of the entire file; read it and let us know what it says, and what state you are in. There is a limited amount of legal research that can be done just using Google; that is why you need to speak with a knowledgable practitioner in your state.
    I said I don't have a copy of the divorce decree, I did not say that I've never seen it. I have ordered a copy from the office of vital statistics in Florida. Should have it within 2-3 weeks.
    I don't know who appointed ScottGem the spokesperson for the group, but he says unless I can prove I was "taken advantage of" I don't have a prayer. Do you agree?
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,100, Reputation: 236
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    #28

    Feb 5, 2009, 06:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by floridanative View Post
    I don't know who appointed ScottGem the spokesperson for the group, but he says unless I can prove I was "taken advantage of" I don't have a prayer. Do you agree?
    No, I don't agree. I'm not certain what you will get from the Dept of Vital Statistics, but divorce records are maintained like other court records, essentially forever. I believe you need to locate the county court clerk's office and get a copy of the entire file, not just a part of it.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #29

    Feb 5, 2009, 09:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    No, I don't agree. I'm not certain what you will get from the Dept of Vital Statistics, but divorce records are maintained like other court records, essentially forever. I believe you need to locate the county court clerk's office and get a copy of the entire file, not just a part of it.
    I will get a copy of the entire file. The application I completed with the office of vital stats said it was for the "dissolution of marriage granted in Florida", it cost $5.00. I will contact the clerk's office in Clay County, Florida where it took place. Thank you for the help.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #30

    Feb 5, 2009, 01:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by floridanative View Post
    I don't know who appointed ScottGem the spokesperson for the group, but he says unless I can prove I was "taken advantage of" I don't have a prayer. Do you agree?
    First, no one appointed me anything nor did I assume that role. But you said that "it sounds like you both think if I waived my rights to the retirement in the divorce decree, then I'm done.... ". I merely replied that I also said the same thing.

    And I'll stand on that opinion. But the opinion is based on what you have said. Without knowing what the divorce decree said, I can only go by your statement; "the divorce was uncontested, I was shell shocked, and just signed the paperwork." If he drew up the decree and you signed off on it, then there is a good likelihood that you voluntarily signed your rights away. If that is the case, then the only way to get any of those rights back is to prove that you were taken advantage of.

    Once you get the divorce decree, you will be in a much better position to understand what you signed and what rights you may or may not have at this point. We may be able to help further once you have more information. So please keep us posted.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #31

    Feb 5, 2009, 08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    First, no one appointed me anything nor did I assume that role. But you said that "it sounds like you both think if I waived my rights to the retirement in the divorce decree, then I'm done.... ". I merely replied that I also said the same thing.

    And I'll stand on that opinion. But the opinion is based on what you have said. Without knowing what the divorce decree said, I can only go by your statement; "the divorce was uncontested, I was shell shocked, and just signed the paperwork." If he drew up the decree and you signed off on it, then there is a good likelihood that you voluntarily signed your rights away. If that is the case, then the only way to get any of those rights back is to prove that you were taken advantage of.

    Once you get the divorce decree, you will be in a much better position to understand what you signed and what rights you may or may not have at this point. We may be able to help further once you have more information. So please keep us posted.
    First, you assumed the role when you said "all 3 of us think that".

    Stand on your opinion. Good man.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #32

    Feb 6, 2009, 08:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by floridanative View Post
    First, you assumed the role when you said "all 3 of us think that".
    No, I was commenting on what YOU said and adding that I said the same thing. Please don't put words in my keyboard ;)
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #33

    Feb 6, 2009, 09:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    No, I don't agree. I'm not certain what you will get from the Dept of Vital Statistics, but divorce records are maintained like other court records, essentially forever. I believe you need to locate the county court clerk's office and get a copy of the entire file, not just a part of it.
    I located the case on the county court clerk's website, and I ordered the documents, it said there were 4 pages, and they will be mailed within 2-3 days. It doesn't seem like 4 pages would be everything, but I'll see what I get and go from there. Thank you for your help.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,100, Reputation: 236
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    #34

    Feb 6, 2009, 10:11 AM

    Just curious: Were there any children involved? Also, division of property? Payment of debts? Claims for alimony? I know you will need to wait until the package arrives, but these are the relevant issues in the ordinary divorce.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #35

    Feb 6, 2009, 10:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    Just curious: Were there any children involved? Also, division of property? Payment of debts? Claims for alimony? I know you will need to wait until the package arrives, but these are the relevant issues in the ordinary divorce.
    Yes on everything you ask, except the alimony. No alimony.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #36

    Feb 6, 2009, 03:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    No, I was commenting on what YOU said and adding that I said the same thing. Please don't put words in my keyboard ;)
    Remember Cool Hand Luke - "What we have here is a failure to communicate".

    I think what started it was when I SAID I was "too young" and YOU SAID the numbers don't add up. I meant I was too young when I married him and after 16 yrs of being dominated and controlled, I certainly wasn't savy enough to know what the hell to do when the bomb hit. Anyway, what difference does any of that make??
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #37

    Feb 6, 2009, 04:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    No, I was commenting on what YOU said and adding that I said the same thing. Please don't put words in my keyboard ;)
    I wasn't quite finished... (still making mistakes)...
    Anyway, I don't understand what difference any of it makes if what YOU SAID is true and I signed off on his retirement in our divorce settlement, then I'm done... unless according to you, I can prove he took advantage of me...
    Well, how am I gonna do that ScottGem??
    If you can answer that question, I want to tell you a story about the Accountant, who loved his male friend, the Architect, more than he loved his wife... he SAID he didn't... but, he did, and yes, he "took advantage" in lots of ways. You know sort of like the slimy McGreevy guy... oh well, I guess that's a story for the relationship section.

    At least George thinks there's hope, and maybe others, we'll see...

    Peace.
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    cadillac59 Posts: 1,326, Reputation: 94
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    #38

    Feb 6, 2009, 04:17 PM

    I'm sorry to say I think that if your disso judgment says you waived your interest in your ex-husband's retirement, it's done. And I think you kind of have that sense about it yourself.

    Do you really think you can come back into court 20 years after the fact and re-open the case and say your were taken advantage of? Seriously? I'm not saying it's impossible but even if you were able to do this, the first thing you are going to be asked is when you discovered you were taken advantage of and why you didn't know this earlier.

    Let's say your ex-husband lied at the time of the divorce (1987) and talked you into waiving the retirement because he said he was planning on getting out of the service and not retiring. He retired in 1990. Did you just find out about his retirement recently? If so, why? See the problems?

    Plus, even if there were fraud, we have a rule in California (I know you are in Florida, this is just given as an example) that says you have to come into court within one year of the time you discovered or should have discovered the fraud, otherwise it's too late.

    Obviously you should check all this out with a Florida lawyer but as I said I wouldn't hold my breath on being successful.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #39

    Feb 6, 2009, 06:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    I'm sorry to say I think that if your disso judgment says you waived your interest in your ex-husband's retirement, it's done. And I think you kind of have that sense about it yourself.

    Of course I have that sense about it or I wouldn't have ask the question to begin with.

    Do you really think you can come back into court 20 years after the fact and re-open the case and say your were taken advantage of? Seriously? I'm not saying it's impossible but even if you were able to do this, the first thing you are going to be asked is when you discovered you were taken advantage of and why you didn't know this earlier.

    I was asking a question, and NO I do NOT think I can go back to court 20 yrs later blah, blah, blah.....
    I've had more than one person tell me I was entitled to part of his retirement, regardless of what went down......obviously, they are misinformed......hence, my question......

    Let's say your ex-husband lied at the time of the divorce (1987) and talked you into waiving the retirement because he said he was planning on getting out of the service and not retiring. He retired in 1990. Did you just find out about his retirement recently? If so, why? See the problems?

    That's all a bunch of crap. I'm not saying anything was fraud, never have, never will.

    Plus, even if there were fraud, we have a rule in California (I know you are in Florida, this is just given as an example) that says you have to come into court within one year of the time you discovered or should have discovered the fraud, otherwise it's too late.

    Obviously you should check all this out with a Florida lawyer but as I said I wouldn't hold my breath on being successful.
    I'm not holding my breath on anything. I ask a question, got a few responses, a few suggestions, a few remarks, that's it.
    floridanative's Avatar
    floridanative Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #40

    Feb 7, 2009, 03:15 PM

    Update... who knew any govt. office was so efficient--- package mailed yesterday, I rec. it today. That's unbelievable in itself.

    Anyhow, it appears under paragraph #13 (ironic) that I have signed away all claim to my ex-husband's retirement. It says, "Neither party shall have a claim against the retirement benefits available to the other party."
    So, stick a fork in me.
    I want to apologize to ScottGem and/or Cadallic59 if I was rude. Thank you all for the responses - esp. George.

    I admit it is a hard pill to swallow, and I feel so stupid. I worked for 16 yrs and had $20,000 in an IRA in 1990. he was in the military for 20 yrs, and has gotten probably close to $20,000 EVERY year since 1990 and will continue to every year for the rest of his life. (do the math on that one)
    Nobody ever said life is fair.

    Thanks again, and when I really get down on myself for being so dumb, I just think about this woman with 6 kids, that just had 8 more, and I know there are.people a lot dumber than me.

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