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-   -   American Cockroach Granular Bait (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=771700)

  • Oct 17, 2013, 10:02 PM
    Veronica7
    American Cockroach Granular Bait
    If I place Maxforce Granular Bait outside around my house but not inside could it possibly eliminate or decrease my Am.roach problem? I am hesitant to put the bait inside my house because I am worried that I will begin to see more roaches, and also could possibly make the problem even worse. I'm thinking if I place it around the perimeter of my house it could possibly attract some of the roachs that are inside my house outside where they will then eat it and die. Could this possibly work?

    A brief backround on my situation: I live in NYC in a home where I share a wall on one side with a neighbor. Both me and my neighbor keep our homes clean with the exception of my yard which has lots of dead leaves and bark that I have not cleaned in 5 years, but there's no garbage or debris or anything like that. For the first time in 34 yrs I began to see large Am.roachs in my basement this past summer about once a week from late June until late August. I then saw none until Oct.1 when I saw a smaller one (about 3/4 inch) in my basement which turned out to be an Am.roach nymph. I again saw none for 11 days but unfortunately the past week I have seen 5 smaller ones in my basement and I'm concerned and baffled as to what's going on.
  • Oct 18, 2013, 02:55 AM
    Catsmine
    Better places to put granular bait would be in the attic and on top of any unfinished basement walls. The baits do degrade from sunlight and moisture, so outdoors limits their effective life.

    Removing the leaf litter outdoors, or at least for a couple of feet around the building, will deprive them of both a food source and a hiding place. By now it would make a great top cover for flowerbeds
  • Oct 18, 2013, 01:12 PM
    Veronica7
    Thanks Catsmine for the advice but if I'm only seeing roaches in my basement do I need to put the bait in my attic?

    Also just want to ask how much does the weather effect American cockroachs entering into homes? I live in NYC and there has been very little rain here the past few weeks. Could the dry weather make a difference? I always was told roaches increase when it's wet and humid not dry.

    One more thing, why in your opinion have all the roaches that I've seen since early October been small nymph/baby American cockroaches, but over the summer they were all very large ones? Does this indicate anything to you?

    Thanks, Veronica in NYC
  • Oct 18, 2013, 03:25 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    Thanks Catsmine for the advice but if I'm only seeing roaches in my basement do I need to put the bait in my attic?

    Also just want to ask how much does the weather effect American cockroachs entering into homes? I live in NYC and there has been very little rain here the past few weeks. Could the dry weather make a difference? I always was told roaches increase when it's wet and humid not dry.

    One more thing, why in your opinion have all the roaches that I've seen since early October been small nymph/baby American cockroaches, but over the summer they were all very large ones? Does this indicate anything to you?

    Thanks, Veronica in NYC

    1. If the basemen becomes inhospitable, the attic will become available. While you have the bait, have some waiting up there as a preventative.

    2. Weather per se doesn't bother them. Changes in the weather gets them moving and more visible.

    3. I suspect you are seeing the young of the ones you saw over the summer. If they are all the same size/age then you already got their parents. If you can get these before they lay eggs you're home free.
  • Oct 18, 2013, 04:07 PM
    Veronica7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    If you can get these before they lay eggs you're home free.

    How many months old do American roachs need to be to lay eggs?

    Also having never had a roach problem before in 34 yrs at this home, is it likely that once I kill this current "batch" off I will not get American cockroachs again next spring/summer, or is there a greater chance they will return? I ask this because 10 years ago we never had house centipedes and once we got them we see them now every summer from June-September.

    Thank You For Your Answers,
    Veronica
  • Oct 18, 2013, 06:17 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    How many months old do American roachs need to be to lay eggs?

    Also having never had a roach problem before in 34 yrs at this home, is it likely that once I kill this current "batch" off I will not get American cockroachs again next spring/summer, or is there a greater chance they will return? I ask this because 10 years ago we never had house centipedes and once we got them we see them now every summer from June-September.

    Thank You For Your Answers,
    Veronica

    Roaches start laying at about 4 - 5 months of age. As for re-invasion/reinfestation, the amount of leaf litter you leave (pardon the pun) will be a large factor. The less hospitable you make your home, the fewer and less often you will see them. That sounds snarky, but it is nonetheless accurate.
  • Oct 18, 2013, 10:55 PM
    Veronica7
    An important question I have to ask: As I mentioned in my original question I share a wall with another family. If my current American cockroach problem (just to clarify it is not an infestation, I'm only seeing about one roach per day always in my basement, plus I spend a lot of time down there as I work from home and my computer is located there so I would notice them) is originating from their home, could placing the granular bait still be effective and kill the ones that are in their home as well as mine?

    Earlier today I placed the bait around the perimeter of my home, and indoors I placed a tablespoon of the stuff in two locations in my basement where I believe they are hanging out (in a storage area underneath my basement stairs and around my sewer drain). I didn't place any in my bathroom because I am terrified of seeing these things and worry I would see them in there once I put down the bait.
  • Oct 19, 2013, 02:34 AM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    An important question I have to ask: As I mentioned in my original question I share a wall with another family. If my current American cockroach problem (just to clarify it is not an infestation, I'm only seeing about one roach per day always in my basement, plus I spend a lot of time down there as I work from home and my computer is located there so I would notice them) is originating from their home, could placing the granular bait still be effective and kill the ones that are in their home as well as mine?
    .

    Probably not all of them. The ones that don't travel through/under/over the wall will never be exposed. Have you considered sharing a professional with your neighbors? Many exterminators will lower their rates to get a chance at treating the entire structure.
  • Oct 21, 2013, 12:51 PM
    Veronica7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Probably not all of them. The ones that don't travel through/under/over the wall will never be exposed. Have you considered sharing a professional with your neighbors? Many exterminators will lower their rates to get a chance at treating the entire structure.

    I mentioned it but they said they don't really see any. They don't spend a lot of time in their basement so that is probably why, whereas I spend the bulk of my day down here working from my desktop PC.

    I went ahead with the granular bait on Friday night and haven't seen any Am.roachs since, but I'm not sure if that means anything since it's only been 2 days. I just have a few quick questions about the bait, thanks for all the advice you've given Catsmine.

    -How often would you recommend I re-apply the granular bait? If I stop seeing roaches for a period of time should I still place some more down to be safe or could that possibly attract new roaches into my home?
    -Is it okay to place the fresh bait on top of the old bait or do I need to vacuum up the old bait first?
    -Will the bait still be effective if I place it in locations where I sprayed a residual spray called Conquer? I also get house centipedes every summer and I only stopped spraying for those about 2 weeks ago.
    -If the roaches are NOT coming from outside is it still useful to spread the bait around the perimeter of my home? Could the bait possibly lure them outside where they will consume it and die?

    One last question: Do American cockroaches lay down any kind of "marker" or scent to let other roaches know that they've been in that home as a way to invite other roaches in later on once they're killed? Hope that's not a dumb question, Thanks so much...
  • Oct 21, 2013, 02:17 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    I mentioned it but they said they don't really see any. They don't spend a lot of time in their basement so that is probably why, whereas I spend the bulk of my day down here working from my desktop PC.

    I went ahead with the granular bait on Friday night and haven't seen any Am.roachs since, but I'm not sure if that means anything since it's only been 2 days. I just have a few quick questions about the bait, thanks for all the advice you've given Catsmine.

    -How often would you recommend I re-apply the granular bait? If I stop seeing roaches for a period of time should I still place some more down to be safe or could that possibly attract new roaches into my home?
    -Is it okay to place the fresh bait on top of the old bait or do I need to vacuum up the old bait first?
    -Will the bait still be effective if I place it in locations where I sprayed a residual spray called Conquer? I also get house centipedes every summer and I only stopped spraying for those about 2 weeks ago.
    -If the roaches are NOT coming from outside is it still useful to spread the bait around the perimeter of my home? Could the bait possibly lure them outside where they will consume it and die?

    One last question: Do American cockroaches lay down any kind of "marker" or scent to let other roaches know that they've been in that home as a way to invite other roaches in later on once they're killed? Hope that's not a dumb question, Thanks so much...

    Working backwards over these;

    1) Which football coach was it that said the only dumb question is the one you DON'T ask?

    2) The American is a solitary scavenger that does not mark its territory. It can detect decay (such as leaf mulch) from great distances and be attracted along with the others in the area, but they do not co-operate.

    3) It is possible to bait them away from your home, but the leaves will be more attractive than the bait granules.

    4)Conquer is a good product that has a repellant action, so baiting on top of it is probably not going to be effective. The question with any repellant insecticide is "Is it repellant ENOUGH?" These days the limit is reached fairly quickly, so putting out more of the same is often throwing good money after bad.

    You should get at least 30 days effect from the Conquer, so bait in different places.

    5) Granular baits don't go bad unless they're contaminated, so there shouldn't be a need for new bait if there is some still there. Of course, if it's been contaminated (by Conquer, by Soap, by disinfectant) removal and replacement is needed.

    6) If you have stopped seeing them, you might consider a container for fresh bait as a preventive measure. Plastic bait stations for mouse bait have a small tray area that the granular bait will pour into nicely and keep the granules safe from contamination and spillage.

    Here's a link to a site I order from sometimes.
    Mouse Bait Stations | Do My Own Pest Control
  • Oct 21, 2013, 04:32 PM
    Veronica7
    Thanks again for the advice Catsmine!!

    I'm concerned that when me and my husband clean our yard tomorrow the American roaches will seek another "home" and make their way indoors into our house. Is this going to happen or will they just move on to another location?

    Also you've said several times to use bait as a "preventive measure" but once I stop seeing any more roaches could the bait possibly lure "new" roaches into my home and prolong the problem?

    Also in regard to the Conquer I was told from the store I purchase it from that I need to switch the insecticide "class" every three months for it to still be effective? Is this true?
  • Oct 21, 2013, 06:29 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    Thanks again for the advice Catsmine!!

    I'm concerned that when me and my husband clean our yard tomorrow the American roaches will seek another "home" and make their way indoors into our house. Is this going to happen or will they just move on to another location?

    Also you've said several times to use bait as a "preventive measure" but once I stop seeing any more roaches could the bait possibly lure "new" roaches into my home and prolong the problem?

    Also in regard to the Conquer I was told from the store I purchase it from that I need to switch the insecticide "class" every three months for it to still be effective? Is this true?

    1) Disrupting their habitat will naturally get them moving. You already have bait out for those that move towards the home.

    2) Granular baits don't normally have much "range" to their attractiveness. Across the basement with its limited air circulation, yes. Through the wall and a crosswind, doubtful.

    3) Insecticide "classes" is a holdover from the decades of organophosphate use. The organophosphate insecticides were usually formulated as emulsions that lasted about 30 days. Some ready-to-use products still use that formulation. Most of the pyrethroid insecticides (Conquer, Bifen, Tempo) are formulated as suspensions that have about 3 times the effective life. Changing products every time you spray seems a little silly. More business for the store, though.
  • Oct 21, 2013, 08:11 PM
    Veronica7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Changing products every time you spray seems a little silly.

    They didn't say every time I spray, they said I should change the class to an Organochloride or Carbamate instead of Pyrethroid about every 3 months. Is that correct, or are you saying I can use the same pyrethroid insecticide longer than 3 months and the insects won't develop tolerance to it?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    You already have bait out for those that move towards the home.

    How long does a typical granular bait take to kill roaches if they do indeed move into the house when I clean the yard?
  • Oct 22, 2013, 02:40 AM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    They didn't say every time I spray, they said I should change the class to an Organochloride or Carbamate instead of Pyrethroid about every 3 months. Is that correct, or are you saying I can use the same pyrethroid insecticide longer than 3 months and the insects won't develop tolerance to it?



    How long does a typical granular bait take to kill roaches if they do indeed move into the house when I clean the yard?

    1) If they can still sell Carbamates please send me their address (website preferred). What I said was that you should not need to spray pyrethroids more often than every 90 days or so.

    2) How long a bait takes depends on several factors. Toxicity is only one. Dosage is more important, which is why I mention attractiveness frequently. If they like it, they eat more, it works faster. Some work in about 24-36 hours while others take a couple of days.
  • Oct 22, 2013, 06:59 AM
    Veronica7
    Wow, I was told to spray the Conquer every 2 weeks. I'm not saying you're wrong but 90 days sounds like a long time. Could it be since I'm using a "watered down" version of a pyrethroid they told me to spray more often? The label reads "Conquer .2%". They mix the stuff in the back of their exterminating business and sell it by the gallon to customers. Also doesn't rain wash away pyrethroid spray residual effects so you would have to re-apply it as needed?
  • Oct 22, 2013, 12:01 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    Wow, I was told to spray the Conquer every 2 weeks. I'm not saying you're wrong but 90 days sounds like a long time. Could it be since I'm using a "watered down" version of a pyrethroid they told me to spray more often? The label reads "Conquer .2%". They mix the stuff in the back of their exterminating business and sell it by the gallon to customers. Also doesn't rain wash away pyrethroid spray residual effects so you would have to re-apply it as needed?

    I was just reading the label for Conquer and noticed something interesting.
    Conquer Insecticide - Free Shipping

    Note on the order page that it's illegal to sell in NY. I suggest you bear that in mind when considering anything they tell you.
  • Oct 22, 2013, 11:22 PM
    Veronica7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    I was just reading the label for Conquer and noticed something interesting.
    Conquer Insecticide - Free Shipping

    Note on the order page that it's illegal to sell in NY. I suggest you bear that in mind when considering anything they tell you.

    I contacted doyourownpestcontrol.com to ask them about that and they said it's only illegal to sell to the general public, not licensed exterminators. I purchase it from a licensed exterminator where they pre-mix it, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

    I edited and re-posted my question below. It should be the last one so don't worry. I know I asked a lot of questions but I just want to do things right because I am so creeped out by these American cockroaches and I can't afford an exterminator right now. Please reply whenever you can. Thanks so much, Veronica in NYC...

    I was told to spray the Conquer every 2 weeks, are you saying that is unnecessary and 90 days is enough to do the job? I'm not saying you're wrong but 90 days sounds like a long time and I want to keep the critters out. Could it be since I'm using a "watered down" version of Conquer (the label reads Conquer .2%) that they told me to apply it more often? Also I was told rainfall washes away pyrethroid spray residual effects so would I need to re-apply when it rains?
  • Oct 23, 2013, 02:45 AM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Veronica7 View Post
    I contacted doyourownpestcontrol.com to ask them about that and they said it's only illegal to sell to the general public, not licensed exterminators. I purchase it from a licensed exterminator where they pre-mix it, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

    I edited and re-posted my question below. It should be the last one so don't worry. I know I asked a lot of questions but I just want to do things right because I am so creeped out by these American cockroaches and I can't afford an exterminator right now. Please reply whenever you can. Thanks so much, Veronica in NYC...

    I was told to spray the Conquer every 2 weeks, are you saying that is unnecessary and 90 days is enough to do the job? I'm not saying you're wrong but 90 days sounds like a long time and I want to keep the critters out. Could it be since I'm using a "watered down" version of Conquer (the label reads Conquer .2%) that they told me to apply it more often? Also I was told rainfall washes away pyrethroid spray residual effects so would I need to re-apply when it rains?

    YOU are the general public.

    Are you sure the concentration is listed as 0.2% and not 0.02%? The latter is the full use strength, so there's a second issue if they mix it at ten times the strength on the label.

    Even at only label rates and with 5 years of leaf mulch on the other side of the wall, application every 2 weeks seems more like a sales tactic than a control strategy. Edit: It occurs to me he may be recommending 2 weeks because of history and maintenance conditions at your home.

    Rainfall, as well as sunlight and heat and cold and other factors, contribute to ALL insecticides' degradation. Insecticides in the U.S. Are required to be biodegradable. That's a good thing. Does one shower negate one application? (Snark alert) Only if it's raining when you spray. Are spray applications more effective if it doesn't rain? About 5 - 8%, yes.

    Let me sum up this discussion with a comprehensive recommendation strategy to keep the insects out.

    1) Reduce the conducive conditions by removing the leaf mulch from next to the building for at least three to six feet.

    2) Block as many entry points as you can, such as caulking around window frames and pipe/wire entrances. Screen any windows and vents.

    3) Apply repellant sprays about three feet up the foundation walls and repellant granules that dissolve into the soil.

    4) For those already inside, apply small amounts of bait granules to likely hiding places such as under appliances, the tops of basement walls, and dark corners. Place granular baits in containers in back corners of cabinets.

    5) Re-apply sprays and granules every 60 - 90 days. (Wintertime = quarterly, Summer maybe more frequent)
  • Oct 25, 2013, 12:00 PM
    Veronica7
    Thanks again for all the info, w/o this site I'd be in the dark about so much of this. As far as the Conquer I checked the label and it does say "Conquer Ready Mix 0.2%" along with an EPA Reg. number underneath. The label looks like it was printed by them not an official looking label so hopefully they just made an error and it really is 0.02%. I would think I would be sick if the stuff I was using every 2 weeks inside my house was 10x strength, would you agree with that Catsmine?

    Few last questions and I should be done here (hope I'm not asking too many, just want to get things right and keep these horrible creatures away, house centipedes are terrible but I can handle them, these Am.cockroaches are a whole different thing for me to handle)

    You said "spray applications are more effective if it doesn't rain, About 5 - 8%, yes" are you saying that even after several rainfalls most residual pyrethroid sprays will still be effective at keeping bugs out? The reason I'm so neurotic about this is that even though I sprayed Conquer every 2 weeks I STILL SAW about 1 Am.Roach per week during the summer. Now I'm even thinking maybe this guy I buy it from is watering the insecticide down and that's why I still saw the weekly roaches. I also usually see house centipedes about 2-3 times month during summer. Does that make any sense to you or am I being paranoid?

    Apply repellant sprays about three feet up the foundation walls and repellant granules that dissolve into the soil When me and my husband spray outside we always spray the perimeter of the home but usually just around the ground. Why is it important to extend the spraying 3 feet up the foundation walls? Also what will the soil-dissolving granules do and what are some you would recommend? Never heard of them before but will look into it.

    Re-apply sprays and granules every 60 - 90 days. (Wintertime = quarterly, Summer maybe more frequent) Prior to this summer when we got roaches for the 1st time, my method for controlling house centipedes (which is the only other bug I can't stand) was to spray indoors and outdoors about every 2 weeks from usually mid June when they start until late Sept when they usually stop. I never sprayed during fall, winter, or even spring. I live in NYC if that means anything to you. So for the record during summer it sounds like you're saying spray every 60 days at most? During winter do you think it's necessary to spray one time if I'm not seeing any roaches or house centipedes?

    When I cleaned out my yard yesterday with my husband we made sure to be on the lookout for roaches however we observed NONE. Does this indicate they may have been entering our home from someplace else? The strange thing is none of the bait I placed inside/outside is missing, but I have not seen any since last Friday including on the glue traps I put down. Maybe they just went away on their own, is that a possibility or does that usually not happen with American roaches?
  • Oct 25, 2013, 02:53 PM
    Veronica7
    One last question - I read that when people turn the heat on more roaches emerge or get attracted to the home. I plan on turning my heat on next week, is this a concern I should have?

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