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    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #21

    Mar 6, 2017, 06:41 AM
    The therapist I go to is a couples therapist as well. We have discussed having children's it's always been voiced that this is and was a priority for me, as usual he always agrees and then tries to change his words. Like he tries to manipulate me and who I am. I guess as I try to do the same to him. I don't know.
    Sometimes, I feel like there is something wrong with me for allowing his behavior and settling with his inactions. I do love him very much and I know he loves me very much but I just don't understand how I continue for years to stay with his inability to be active in our relationship. It boggles me how he bought a ring and how we're married and made it this far, did I have that much control over him? To force him into all of this? It confuses me.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #22

    Mar 6, 2017, 07:02 AM
    Sometimes we are so distracted by our own needs and wants we never find out or even explore why our partner doesn't want what we want, or doesn't have the enthusiasm for it that we do. Obviously he likes things as they are, and is not ready, for whatever reason, to give you what YOU want.

    The only question is why? What could he be afraid of besides losing his arse, or losing any leverage he has to HIS life as he sees it! I still feel you are missing something about him that you need to know. At this point you can only see if couples counseling can get you on the same page. Guys don't have a ticking clock to drive them!
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #23

    Mar 6, 2017, 08:24 AM
    I agree with talaniman!
    One tiny detail was brewing in my mind - he says he's a hypochrondriac. You don't say in what way, or if it bothers you, or if it hampers his life. But you also were out at night with your friends, dressed to kill... and I wondered if he had fears that you were screwing around.

    This isn't something to dwell on. It's just one little example of ways people can 'notice' a partner. And then talk about it. I could be way off base! I'm not there. But you need to know each other better by way of soul searching. Not all at once nor at a proscribed time. Over years.

    'Sometimes, I feel like there is something wrong with me...' of course. Most of us have something wrong with us. But you continue with '...for allowing him...' - NOPE! If there is something wrong with us, it's something wrong with us! You would be the same with anyone, even if you don't believe that. You have a concrete way of looking at relationships. You got a ring. You got marriage. You got them by insisting over and over. Even sex 1-2 times a week (which for plenty of couples after 5 years or so, is a LOT, LOL). In short, your marriage is A, B, then C. If he's the same, that's his problem. His own excitement was porn. Yours was going out with friends. If you didn't want to have kids, it could have been a good arrangement. You CAN say there's something wrong with you for allowing him to do this and that, but that's the worst way of saying it. You are kicking yourself for not being more demanding. You need to examine yourself to see why you don't leave, don't adjust, don't find a sperm donor, don't adopt, don't do SOMETHING without HIM included! Do you see the very important difference???

    Anyway, back to kids here and now. Yes, you have to make a decision NOW. He has to make a decision NOW. He's a partner to your biological clock. It's the one time in a relationship when the woman matters more, if the man does want kids.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
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    #24

    Mar 6, 2017, 09:30 AM
    I understand you are concerned about your biological clock. But I have to wonder if this would be the best time to get pregnant.

    End of January, you were consulting a Divorce Attorney. You haven't been in counseling for very long. You are just now re-learning how to be comfortable and loving with each other. You are learning to communicate better with each other. But the eggshells are still there.

    He mentioned his thoughts while cleaning probably because he has been afraid to bring it up at any other time. How did you react? Did you ask why he felt that way or did you start in about why you don't believe him?

    Do you know why he seems reluctant to have a child? Is he afraid? Afraid of being responsible for a new life? Afraid of something from his past?

    Some things for you to think about:

    Do you love the thought of being a mother or being pregnant? Would fostering/adopting a child be a compromise?

    Have you discussed a compromise of six months? That would give you a bit longer to see if the changes you are making will last.

    Are you willing to be a single mother if you have a baby with him and the marriage fails?

    Do you love the thought of being a mother more than him? Are you only with him because you want a baby?
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #25

    Mar 6, 2017, 10:17 AM
    He says that he is afraid. He is afraid that we will have e a baby and it will be like him constantly sick or "feeling" sick. At first I would tell him stop you're not sick! You're exaggerating! You'll be fine don't worry. He told me that I was insensitive to him and inconsiderate to his feelings so I asked him what do you want me to say? He said I want you to reassure me that I'll be okay and I said but babe I'm not your mom I'm your wife I'll take care of you but for you to turn a sore throat into throat cabcer is absurd. I spoke to the therapist about this and I told her that it was beginning to be annoying but I was at a loss and didn't know what to say anymore she suggested I be firm and not enable him so I did that this past week. His knee was hurting because he had gone to the gym so he said to me "babe my knee hurts" I said aw babe you're prob sore from using the leg machine he says to me you think I tore my ACL or tore something? I used my chance to be firm with him and I said "when you say things like that it turns me off. If it was your ACL you would be in extreme pain/screaming and wouldn't be walking. Please don't exaggerate like that. I reassure you that your soreness is going to go away" he in turn said "babe I just need reassurance that I'll be okay you know me you knew this when you met me" and I said "well you knew that I am not someone to baby you. I love you but when you exaggerate like that and you know it's not a possibility that you tore your ACL it's a turn off". I believe he is very insecure and always seeking attention from me with his "ailments" but I do give him a lot of attention otherwise hugs kisses cuddles. I agree it's not a good time to have a baby right this second but to wait a year or two is absurd and a deal breaker for me. I love kids. I want a child. It's been 7 years if he doesn't know by now I have to get the courage enough to leave I keep hoping things will get better and I keep allowing him to manipulate me into staying because he promises me everything I want but if I don't fuss/complain/cry over it he doesn't budge. I did tel him this I said our relationship has been constant fights and struggling (moving in/engagement/marriage and now to have a baby) those are the only times we struggle the most important critical transitions that's terrible! then why are we together??? If you want a cookie cutter wife I'm not her and I never will Be maybe you should go find her. He said so I don't make you happy? I said do you hear yourself? If I didn't want you I wouldnt always ask for things I'm always asking when things should be NATURAL you should want them as well but you don't! He said I want a baby with you I swear I do I said you don't sound like it at all. It's like he sees a shirt he says he wants it he doesn't buy it he passes by it always doubting maybe it'll shrink it won't fit me or I'll ruin it and he passes up the chance to buy the shirt bc he sees everything that could go wrong with it. I see it clearly. I just don't understand why I can't muster the courage to end this. Like I said I do love him very much and I really thought we would have it all the love the house the family. But everything has been me complaining but in all honesty it's been on his terms when he wanted when he was ready when he wasn't "afraid"... when we were cleaning it was calmly brought up this will be the babies room and I said awww yeah he said in a year or two and I said why a year or two? Why did you change your mind? It seems like you keep pushing your timeline and I'm here just waiting on you. And I'm getting older and older. He said well we agreed in January that we wouldn't bring a child to this world if we were fighting I said I agree but to say a year or two? It may take us a year of trying. Or it may happen quickly but we don't know that. Things have been going great because we BOTH changed not just me or you we BOTH changed. He said it'll be fine Carolina we will have a healthy baby boy we will be fine. I said you are just so unbelievable do you realize how old I am? I will be 36 next month. So in a year or two you'll push it back again I have always just waited on you and your timeline. He then apologized and said we will be okay I said "please leave me alone I want to be alone I'm not happy you make all these promises and you never follow through just leave me alone". I have thought about sperm donors and I may end up doing that my dream was to have him as my husband a home a family with him he doesn't seem to want that I feel led on and continuous promises that I keep holding on to.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #26

    Mar 6, 2017, 10:57 AM
    I am sticking with my earlier statement that this is not fixable without a third party intervening to help the communication. Repeating the same communication back and forth to each other doesn't seen to be working on the real issues. I also agree that this doesn't sound like the perfect time to get pregnant when there are so many issues between you two. You both are communicating past each other instead of to each other.

    It's possible that as he's gotten older his desire to have children has waned. It's nobody's fault if that has happened just something more that a couple should be able to talk about.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #27

    Mar 6, 2017, 11:30 AM
    He did promise me he would go with me to therapy tomorrow, but we'll see because he has once before about 2 years ago cancelled on me last minute before and or just refused to go.
    If he has changed his mind as to having kids I think it's best he should tel me so we could explore other options but to cheat me out of what I want it's not fair for him to lie to me.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #28

    Mar 6, 2017, 12:10 PM
    It's probably not his intent to lie. His intent is probably to avoid confrontation which most of your conversations turn into. Not saying that is the right approach, it's just an approach.

    Good luck tomorrow. Have your expectations in check, meaning therapy is not an overnight cure all. As much time as you two have taken to create this situation between you two, it will probably take that much time or more to correct everything. But sometimes baby steps turn into a huge leap so I wish you well.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #29

    Mar 6, 2017, 01:30 PM
    I was sort of like you, exactly half my life ago. I'm 70. Except that I didn't complain much at all. If he didn't want what I wanted, I generally just got depressed.

    Cat's 4 questions are really good. Would you be willing to copy each one below and reply to it very specifically?
    If I wanted a baby, AND were willing to be a single mother, I would go to an IVF clinic ASAP for an exam and discussion and to find out costs.
    I would also contact adoption agencies, state and private.
    It's called 'not making decisions by default.'
    I may not follow through on either one, but I have MORE OPTIONS OPEN.

    Are you able to see how you sort of grind to a halt on everything, waiting for him, cajoling him, nagging him, threatening him? He is who he is. He isn't a bad person, lying and cheating. He doesn't hit you or say horrible things. You accept what you can, work together on BOTH of your ability to talk, and act alone if he balks.
    YOU have to decide what YOU want and whether or not you will proceed with or without him.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #30

    Mar 6, 2017, 02:27 PM


    Do you love the thought of being a mother or being pregnant? Would fostering/adopting a child be a compromise?
    I would love to become pregnant and experience the feeling of being a mother. If for some reason I am unable to have a baby. I would adopt.

    Have you discussed a compromise of six months? That would give you a bit longer to see if the changes you are making will last.
    No, we have not discussed any compromise.

    Are you willing to be a single mother if you have a baby with him and the marriage fails?
    I'd rather the marriage fail before having a baby. I'd rather this end. But, if we were to have a baby and it does fail, yes I would be willing to be a single mother.

    Do you love the thought of being a mother more than him? Are you only with him because you want a baby?
    I love him and truly thought that we would have a baby. I don't think the value of my love for him is comparable to the thought of being a mother. However, being a mother has an expiration date. And, no I am not only with him to just have a baby I could of just been with anyone but I choose to keep staying.

    And I do notice I always come to a halt. I have always come to a halt waiting on him. In 7 years that's all I've done waited on him. I'm not sure why I continuously do this knowing I shouldn't
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #31

    Mar 6, 2017, 03:54 PM
    'I'm not sure why I continuously do this'

    It's common enough. Many of us (women) saw our mothers do it. My mother thought she was going to stay in the glitz and glamour of the big city, not follow my father through a string of jobs in small towns, and popping out 3 babies starting when she was 21. That's how it went back then. But boy, she made our lives a living hell about regretting all of it.

    The other reason is usually that you just haven't reached that eureka moment when you realize that you are your own person making your own decisions. No one can tell you about that moment in a way that will hit home. You will find it. For now, your sentences are FULL of attributing all that is going on in your life to his behaviors.

    Your answers to Cat's questions are sort of.... evasive, in some ways. You never really say whether or not you are willing to be a single mother except in the case of having one with him. Do you love the thought of being a mother more than him is the one I don't hear a real direct answer to.

    He is afraid of not waiting til you are no longer arguing. Most couples argue. Many argue a lot. It's possible to argue with plenty of love. It's not the REAL reason to postpone a baby.
    A good topic for couples counseling.
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    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #32

    Jul 2, 2017, 09:01 PM
    I have tried and failed. This weekend I told my husband I was not happy and that I wanted a divorce. According to my husband it is my fault that our marriage is failing. He says he has done everything to please me and he has changed (which I don't perceive it as being real change) and that I am the same person. Although for the past two months, I have not gone out at all, I have t gone to the gym and I have done EVERYTHING he has wanted me to. This past month has been really rough. Week one- I bought a maxiclimber exercises machine so that I could exercise and be home with my husband- he got angry because the machine looked messy in the basement so we had a huge fight over it. Week 2- I had bought a bicycle he got angry saying where was I going to put the bike and that if I left it outside it would get rusty and ruined- huge fight again. Week 3- I left a pot of brown rice sitting on the stove overnight and he scolded me for it saying how I don't clean and that I needed to refer back to the chore chart that we had made up (therapists suggestion)... week 4 this past week he got angry bc the dishes were in the dishwasher for 2 days and I had not done them- that I didn't follow the chore chart and that it was something that bothered him and how Come I don't fix what bothers him. I said this can't be about the dishes please tell me why are you upset? Do you want more attention? What is it!!??? He makes me feel inadequate and he says I make him feel like that as well. He has become OCD anal with the cleanliness of the house- i am not a clean freak but I am clean. I truly feel he has deep rooted mamas boys/divorced parent issues. Bc it just can't be that we have fought about the stupidest things I just don't understand!! we have been going to therapy for 4 months now- therapy has been at times very helpful and at times very hurtful he brought up again how he felt forced and pressured to move in (this was 4 years ago), how he felt forced and pressured to get engaged, how I didn't respect his tradition to stay home before marriage, how he felt pressured and forced to have sex. I just can't believe how he still carries this with him. I told him I can't believe you still resent me- I apologize but if you truly feel like you were pressured and forced the door is open for you no one put a gun to your head. And I said you sound like a 21 year old virgin forced to have sex you should learn to take responsibilities for your own actions and decisions like an adult should. He went on to say how he wants me to be home more. So for the past two months I haven't gone to the gym or gone out or done anything that I enjoy to please him just to see how far I can get well like I said this month has been rough every week it's him nitpicking at what I haven't done. I believe that since I started to do everything he wants there is nothing else for him to get upset about so now he is nitpicking at BS reasons so that it validates his thought that since we are never OK always fighting therefore we will not start a family. I am typing this from my cellphone in a hotel- I left the house Friday- I have decided that I can no longer waste my time. And I will not allow him to write my destiny any longer. I told him I wanted a divorce and my next step is going to the consultation to begin the process.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #33

    Jul 3, 2017, 04:20 AM
    LOL, you already seem to have one big baby so is wanting another one with him realistic? I don't think he is ready for that kind of competition for your attention, or the responsibility.

    I am just glad you have a plan of action to follow, and I hope it leads to better happiness. You needed the "vacation" from him.
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    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #34

    Jul 3, 2017, 04:33 AM
    [EDITED]
    Hi again, glad you are here. My only suggestion would be to GO HOME while you start the divorce. You need a handle on some very nuts and bolts things like finances, possessions, and where you will live.
    You don't need to defend yourself with stories. I think we all get the gist of what he is like. It doesn't even matter anymore - you are getting divorced. There are no children to worry about. You don't mention renting vs home ownership, so that would be the biggie. You can get a simple, assembly line divorce (mine cost $100). I borrowed papers from someone and just substituted names.
    If you do prefer to hire a lawyer, it still helps to try to agree on some details first, to save on those 2 expensive clocks ticking. If you share home ownership, decide now who buys out whom, or whether to sell it.
    So I say: Go home, say it was on advice, and start the logistics of physically breaking up and filing for divorce.
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    tickle Posts: 23,801, Reputation: 2674
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    #35

    Jul 3, 2017, 04:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    Hi again, glad you are here. My only suggestion would be to GO HOME while you start the divorce. You need a handle on some very nuts and bolts things like finances, possessions, and where you will live. It doesn't sound like you have a job?
    OP stated she has a career in education, with 80,000 a year salary
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    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #36

    Jul 3, 2017, 05:30 AM
    OK, thanks, edited my response.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #37

    Jul 3, 2017, 06:18 AM
    Post #5 lays it out pretty well Joy.
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    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #38

    Jul 3, 2017, 06:44 AM
    Thank you all for your time and advice. I am pretty depressed and needed to get away. I do have a career and I make a good living, we do own a home it's under both of our names. I am hoping he will agree to split everything in half. It's so sad because our home is gorgeous and we have a dog and I'm just trying to compose myself so that I can go home with a clear head to start mentally, physically and emotionally separating myself from him. I am afraid of what my future hold I hope to find someone who will love me and I love them and who will want the same things I want. I am nervous about my age (36) but staying in wasting my time anyway I may as well use my time to try and see if I can find happiness.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #39

    Jul 4, 2017, 06:55 AM
    Take all the time you need to both figure out how best to deal with your fear, and your ticking clock. Both are huge drivers of your behavior, and obstacles to your happiness. Don't hesitate to seek counseling yourself to resolve this conflict raging inside you, AND help your own HEALING process, which is of the highest priority at this time.

    Do not minimize the need to heal from your last 7 years (Or MORE).
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #40

    Jul 4, 2017, 11:29 AM
    He sent this to me last night:
    "What i don't understand is we did try and it was going well...so what I asked about dishes so what..just like that divorce. What about last summer I begged you to stop drinking begged you ..it hurt me so much ..you completely ignored my feelings...you pulled over and got a violation thank GOD that all you got ...did I leave? Did say I want a divorce ..did I ignore you ? Slam the door...or did I love you and support you and understood ..and forgave and stood by you and loved you like a husband...me anal and obsessive over cleaning or dishes after a good week should not have lead to this..no way not even close....because if that's the case I should have been screaming divorce last summer after my wife ignored a major feeling of mine of you going out till mid of night and coming home drunk while I stood home and you ignored my feelings....I stood by you as a team.....and yet ....after that though it was good for a few months...you again continued to go out and not stay home after we bought a new house to build our relationship and have a family and have our friends and family over for us..how many times did I have to text your friends over the years asking where you were or if you were ok or if you were coming home? How many times did you have do that for me? did 99% of everything...you say materialistic....no I wanted to build a beautiful home for us or family our friends ...but you chose not to help...continue to go out and continue to not help...I got cranky about it I got upset about it but I kept a lot of it in..because I wanted to be positive and did not want to fight...building a house together I thought would have brought us closer together...instead once a month it was something I didn't do or did do that bother you ..lack of intimacy ..you think I didn't want a family ..and so on ...yes we went stretches without being intimate ..many reasons why not life, tired, working late , sick , working on house till late or us arguing ..but it didn't have to with you I was attracted to you the day I met you in Afternoones 7 years ago and 7 years later I am still attracted to you..a combination of me always worried that you would be mad at me or bothered about something I did cotrubuted ....but even when we were intimate on a regular something came up.....I'm not perfect far from it ...and there was plenty I did wrong ...9/10 I admitted to it apologized for it understood your feelings and truly tried to change..I though a beautiful home and working on it together would have brought us closer together....I wanted so bad from the bottom of my heart for you to help and yes being more of a house wife and into the house ...not be a maid just to take some interest in the house cleaning a bit or helping ...I always try to clean and help to the best I can..I'm not the best at it but I tried ..take a look at the fridge upstairs it's sad..we haven't gone grocery shopping in months...I just prayed and hoped that we get the positivity rolling which it did many times until something came up..am I anal about the house yes and clean make sure the house looks nice ..yes ...but is that worst? Is that something to ruin a relationship or is that something to work on together...I want a family and kids in the worst way..i picture our kids growing up on the block with the little kids across the street ..but we bother agreed and promised to make sure we had a strong relationship and work on our relationship before he have kids...we agreed the therapist even said it...then few weeks later ...it's "I don't want to have kids I don't want a family.. you you don't fully in me" and I say to myself we just agreed to work on our relationship so 2 weeks later it's time to have kids? I asked about the instagram whether you think it's a not a big deal or not..I did ..I didn't like it..again my feelings don't matter? Just yours ......if you want a divorce unfortunately I will go with it...because I if your not happy ..and are unsure about our relationship and do not have the patience to continue and you fell out of love with me I understand ..and I'm for it. Be fore say how can I be happy I know your unhappy ...yes I'm unhappy when we fight..I'm unhappy when what I do is not good enough..yes......for dishes to trigger you after a great week ..wanting a divorce you must be truly unhappy ..me being cranky about dishes shouldn't lead to a divorce or me reprimanding you..it wasn't reprimanding I was just upset about it....I aprrciate you cooking breakfast for me the days after and BBQing ...when I came over with pat the other I saw you in the window in the basement I saw you go leave and go upstairs when I was coming in with pat..I was so proud to show him the yard what we did as a team together.....what would make me happy is if you came over tomorrow to your home our home for the 4th and Paul and Paulie's bday...if you don't I guess I understand ...and like I said if you want a divorce i can not force you otherwise and will agree with as much as it hurts and I will know I didn't give up and I fought for our relationship and fought to change for you and our relationship and I fought to build a beautiful home for us and our relationship and I went out swinging trying to make you happy...and I tried to change for you for. Long period of time ...I'm sorry for me being cranky about the maxiclimber and dishwasher ..but that's me ..I love you..I'll give Baxter a hug for you ..missed you yesterday everyone asked for you ..and I would like you to be at your house tomorrow as well as my family ...if you don't..I understand ...be safe and careful"

    Am I wrong? I don't know I feel so lost and confused.

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