The Roots of Violence:
Wealth without work,
Pleasure without conscience,
Knowledge without character,
Commerce without morality,
Science without humanity,
Worship without sacrifice,
Politics without principles.

- Mohandas K. Gandhi

No doubt a wise man said this and if we examine it we find the characteristics of our world today. Come tell me it isn't so, for as I look at each statement I can see where it is resident in the fabric of our societies and in fact has even been esposed as virtue by some contributors here

Well I guess there is no denying it

Your last sentence in the op tells me you are just trying to stir things up on the board.

platitude - definition of platitude by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

and in fact has even been esposed as virtue by some contributors here

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Hello clete:

I agree with you.. I especially LOVE my science WITH humanity... That way if I don't LIKE it, I can pretend it isn't so.

excon

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Commerce without morality,

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Hello again, clete:

Sounds like the tobacco industry. I think the right wingers LOVE the tobacco industry, no?

excon

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Politics without principles.

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Hello again, clete:

Yes, there's SOME on this board who support torture..

excon

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience

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Hello again, clete:

Wall Street.

excon

Hi ex I see we have found some common ground and Yes Tom I was trying to stir some into a discussion which might not include the populous politics so prevelent in some places. You see Ex gets it.

The more you look at those statements the more you can fit western society right into them now I'm open to discuss of any one
Let's start with politics without principles, shall we start with Washington or Canberra? no shortage of examples in either place

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The more you look at those statements the more you can fit western society right into them

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Of course Gandhi was talking about western society. After all.... His is /was so pure.The very example we should emulate.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Of course Gandhi was talking about western society. After all.... His is /was so pure.The very example we should emulate.

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Yes I have no doubt he was but not co0nfined to western society. As to Gandhi's example he didn't see the need to back every move with a gun, a great contrast to some we know

A lot of good that did during the separation civil war .

He took his non-violence views to the extreme . He urged the Brits to surrender to Nazi Germany ;and he criticized Jews who tried to escape the holocaust.

Now he was lucky he was opposing a civilized nation like Britain. Had Britain been ruled by the Mahdi-hatter of Assad do you think his passivity would've freed the nation ?
So although you are pointing the microscope at the west ;there is much worse out there. Note that the nation he helped establish has had to create one of the worlds largest nuclear powers to maintain sufficient security .

Here we go having a little relative morality and trying to justify the unjustifiable again.

Gandhi was a man of principle. That can sometimes mean the solutions are not practical and taken to the extreme can be ridiculous in hindsight. We all know the bully must be opposed, however the independence of India was an idea whose time had come even if it had taken a century since its first murmurings and it doesnot make him any less right.

One thing you are always good for Tom is ducking

Sorry... in a rare moment of agreement ,I think NK's calling Gandhi's words platitudes are right on. To accept them as words he believed in would be to first dismiss all the contradictions of this "saint" .
In many ways he was more cult leader.
You are correct. The Indian Independence movement began long before he came on the scene. Most likely ,given the shrinking fortunes of Britannia ,India was headed towards independence with or without Gandhi.
And of course ,his love of liberation from Britain only extended to India . When it came to South Africa ,during the Boer war ,and the Zulu rebellion ,he was quite the imperial loyalist.You should add some of his more racists quotes to the profound ones already quoted... ones like this :

“A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”

Or this gem :
“The petition dwells upon ‘the co-mingling of the coloured and white races’. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?”

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Originally Posted by tomder55

sorry....in a rare moment of agreement ,I think NK's calling Gandhi's words platitudes are right on. To accept them as words he believed in would be to first dismiss all the contradictions of this "saint" .
In many ways he was more cult leader.
You are correct. The Indian Independence movement began long before he came on the scene. Most likely ,given the shrinking fortunes of Britannia ,India was headed towards independence with or without Gandhi.
And of course ,his love of liberation from Britain only extended to India . When it came to South Africa ,during the Boer war ,and the Zulu rebellion ,he was quite the imperial loyalist.You should add some of his more racists quotes to the profound ones already quoted ....ones like this :

“A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”

or this gem :
“The petition dwells upon ‘the co-mingling of the coloured and white races’. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?”

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Racist? What would you do if called a Kaffir, knowing its connotations? That concept exists in many places in the world even if the term used is different and in any form it is demeening and intentionally condecending.

As to the Indian preserving racial purity, I think it is a great pity many more races don't emulate them, It might reduce some of the problems in the world since it is easily seen that the half cast is a source of problem due to low acceptance. Gandhi conveninently forgot the anglo many of whom were forced to leave India at independence, which proves that no one is perfect.

Irrespective of Gandhi's mistakes the point made in my original post is valid

I fail to see any advantage in racial or ethnic purity. It is interesting and revealing that Gadhi failed to mention that type of intollerance as one of the roots of violence.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I fail to see any advantage in racial or ethnic purity. It is interesting and revealing that Gadhi failed to mention that type of intollerance as one of the roots of violence.

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Perhaps one of his failings was inabilty to rhyme

There is a great deal of advantage Tom since the customs of various races are not easily understood and a source of difficulties, Just for you we will add
Race without reason

Got one for you.
Commerce without morality/
Politics without principles.

When the private sector runs a ponzi scheme it's an immoral and illegal act that gets that person locked up when caught.
When the government runs a massive ponzi scheme that in comparison makes the business guy look like he stole from a dime store ,it's considered a moral and principled social program .
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...er-293241.html

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Got one for ya.
Commerce without morality/
Politics without principles.

When the private sector runs a ponzi scheme it's an immoral and illegal act that gets that person locked up when caught.
When the government runs a massive ponzi scheme that in comparison makes the business guy look like he stole from a dime store ,it's considered a moral and principled social program .
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...er-293241.html

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Look Tom, insurance is a ponzi scheme and definitely commerce without morality, health insurance is a ponzi scheme and definitely commerce without morality endorced by politics without principles yet you cling to the idea this is good while decrying social security as a ponzi scheme. Unfunded schemes are destined to fail if for no other reason than government fails to control inflation and has no control over the birth rate

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yet you cling to the idea this is good while decrying social security as a ponzi scheme.

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Nope... would prefer to make my commerce directly with the doctor.
I did not set up the private or public insurance system. I know that I don't need it to pay for routine care... only for catastrophic care . But I'm not given that choice either .
The biggest problem with the private insurance system however is not the insurance companies... it is the mandates they operate under. How can I shop around when all health insurance in my State requires the same coverage ? Why can't I make my deal with the insurance company to only get the coverage I think I need ? Because the government dicates otherwise.