We have been there before

paraclete · Apr 10, 2018, 11:28 PM

https://www.mail.com/int/news/us/840...-stage-hero1-1

Should certain countries take unilateral action against Syria following the use of poison gas against rebel held enclave?

The question is as old as the invasion of Iraq. What responsibility is there to interdict the use of WMD and the question is also is chlorine a WMD? We all know the Syrian regime, and by implication the Russian regime is dirty.

Nothing but boots on the ground is going to stop the Syrian conflict, however Turkey, a NATO ally, is also involved and hand shaking with Iran and Russia, both participants in the conflict. This means putting boots on the ground may be extremely difficult.

So much hand wringing in Washington and Paris while the UN once again does nothing

talaniman · Apr 11, 2018, 08:17 AM

The Dufus should put his missiles where his mouth is.

paraclete · Apr 11, 2018, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

The Dufus should put his missiles where his mouth is.

I'm not sure that is an answer, escalating the conflict doesn't help, hasn't helped. There is a need to get a permanent ceasefire but achieving that is elusive

tomder55 · Apr 11, 2018, 05:00 PM

false premise ....."

Should certain countries take unilateral action against Syria following the use of poison gas against rebel held enclave?

The question is as old as the invasion of Iraq"

There was an extensive coalition of nations and the debate on what should be done took over a year .

"

What responsibility is there to interdict the use of WMD

"...

here we go again . In less than a decade there will be hand wringing by the same people saying we should've done more to end the holocaust that A$$hat rained down on the people.

Nothing but boots on the ground is going to stop the Syrian conflict, however Turkey, a NATO ally, is also involved and hand shaking with Iran and Russia, both participants in the conflict. This means putting boots on the ground may be extremely difficult.

So much hand wringing in Washington and Paris while the UN once again does nothing

I disagree we do not need a heavy presence on the ground . We just have to make it clear that there is a severe price to pay if he chooses to use wmd . Maybe this time instead of putting pot holes in a runway we take out a squadron of Syrian helicopters .

As far as the Russians go ;we wasted a sizeable force of the

CHVk Vagner (aka Putin's private army ) (aka "mercenaries ") recently in Syria . The Russians push a bayonet until it meets steel . The emperor was a push over so they pushed him over. Make them pay a heavy price for their support of a regime that has completely lost legitimacy and the moral authority to lead Syria.

talaniman · Apr 11, 2018, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

I'm not sure that is an answer, escalating the conflict doesn't help, hasn't helped. There is a need to get a permanent ceasefire but achieving that is elusive

That's the problem Clete, there will be no cease fire, so lets get on with a real war. You know blow the hell out of Assad's air force and ground troops and take out the air bases. Screw Russia and Iran. They stepped into this mess and have chosen to back a genocidal animal.

Besides, what's the point of having a loud mouth Dufus as CIC if he isn't going to show his backside when it counts, or he should shut the hell up about what Obama didn't do.

paraclete · Apr 11, 2018, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

false premise ....."

There was an extensive coalition of nations and the debate on what should be done took over a year

.

And the result is the mess we have today which can be directly traced to the wrongful actions of GWB and others

Here we go again . In less than a decade there will be hand wringing by the same people saying we should've done more to end the holocaust that A$$hat rained down on the people.

There is a way to end this conflict but no one will take it, a small tactical nuke could end it immediately and one more genocidal nutcase could be consigned to history. But no, the nations who could end it won't because they fear, yes, fear the condemnation of history.

I disagree we do not need a heavy presence on the ground . We just have to make it clear that there is a severe price to pay if he chooses to use wmd . Maybe this time instead of putting pot holes in a runway we take out a squadron of Syrian helicopters .

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. More than a squadron of helicopters needs to be taken out, Barrel bombs can be are delivered by fixed wing aircraft also. In Iraq a no fly zone was enforced, but this solution doesn't appear to be an option. Putting a few potholes in an airfield doesn't work either, been there, done that, but Assad goes on almost emboldened.

As far as the Russians go ;we wasted a sizeable force of the

CHVk Vagner (aka Putin's private army ) (aka "mercenaries ") recently in Syria . The Russians push a bayonet until it meets steel . The emperor was a push over so they pushed him over. Make them pay a heavy price for their support of a regime that has completely lost legitimacy and the moral authority to lead Syria.

You think knocking off a few Russian mercenaries is a sufficient show of strength to deter Putin. He is laughing at you. It is Russia that has feet on the ground, a tactical move that pulled your teeth. You continue to play with IS, but the Russians don't care about IS, they just want their naval base.

Originally Posted by talaniman

That's the problem Clete, there will be no cease fire, so lets get on with a real war. You know blow the hell out of Assad's air force and ground troops and take out the air bases. Screw Russia and Iran. They stepped into this mess and have chosen to back a genocidal animal.

Besides, what's the point of having a loud mouth Dufus as CIC if he isn't going to show his backside when it counts, or he should shut the hell up about what Obama didn't do.

I think the loud mouth is as big a part of the problem as was BO, much talk, much shouting from the sidelines, but not much real action. Waving a big stick doesn't work with someone like Assad, he has nowhere to go. Dropping a cruise missile worked on Gaddafi, similar solution needed

tomder55 · Apr 11, 2018, 06:35 PM

Tal and company still think that Putty and Trump are in cahoots . Yes ,by trying to build world consensus Saddam had time to move his wmd stockpile into Syria and to develop an insurgency strategy . Bush's mistake was in belief in the international community consensus before acting .

By the way ;what do you think about a future Chinese military base in your back yard at Vanuatu ? Maybe now you can take the threat of Chinese aggression a little more seriously .

paraclete · Apr 11, 2018, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Tal and company still think that Putty and Trump are in cahoots . Yes ,by trying to build world consensus Saddam had time to move his wmd stockpile into Syria and to develop an insurgency strategy . Bush's mistake was in belief in the international community consensus before acting .

By the way ;what do you think about a future Chinese military base in your back yard at Vanuatu ? Maybe now you can take the threat of Chinese aggression a little more seriously .

Oh how you are addicted to fake news, I expect it is a US plot to force us closer to the US, Vanuatu has debuked the idea and said clearly they are against the militarisation of the Pacific. What does your administration think about such comments which are clearly directed at GUAM. Turncoat has clearly come out against it, no doubt trying to claw back some adverse newspolls, and so has New Zealand. If Vanuatu knows which side its bread is buttered on they won't move to upset us

tomder55 · Apr 12, 2018, 11:38 AM

The NY Slimes ? Fake news ? No way !!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/w...tary-base.html

talaniman · Apr 13, 2018, 05:09 AM

Syria is moving assets and planes to Russian bases, but we can still light up everything else. Russia and Iran have been given enough fair warning that the missiles are a coming.

paraclete · Apr 13, 2018, 04:20 PM

Yes some more gunboat diplomacy and another vast fleet on its way. The point really is what do you strike? Some airbases where helicopters are launched? Some chemical weapon or chemical plants? Or the presidential place. The fact is the US has no authority in this conflict, concern yes, but authority, no. They have stood idly by for six years and now think it is time to act?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5611419/Trumps-armada-Huge-task-force-12-warships-sets-sail-Syria.html

In the meantime the attack had its effect, the Army of Islam have left the area driven out to an area where they are safe under Turkish auspices

paraclete · Apr 13, 2018, 08:10 PM

Yes attacks have been made on chemical weapons facilities, and I have to ask, Obama pushed for Syria to give up its chemical weapons and Trump attacked a year ago so how come these facilities are known to exist and do exist? Have we been taken for a ride and if so, by whom

talaniman · Apr 14, 2018, 08:57 AM

There have been many incidence of Assad using gas on his people after the Trump missiles attacks. Russia and China have been blocking every effort in the UN to address this until Britain and France acted with the US Friday night outside UN authorization. No one else wanted to be involved. Not Germany, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any other nation.

No doubt Assad will rebuild his gas manufacturing infrastructure, and has stashed a stockpile somewhere for future use.

paraclete · Apr 14, 2018, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

There have been many incidence of Assad using gas on his people after the Trump missiles attacks. Russia and China have been blocking every effort in the UN to address this until Britain and France acted with the US Friday night outside UN authorization. No one else wanted to be involved. Not Germany, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any other nation.

No doubt Assad will rebuild his gas manufacturing infrastructure, and has stashed a stockpile somewhere for future use.

Yes he is probably using Saddam's fabled stockpile. What is happening in Syria is tragic but the world created the UN to deal with this sort of thing without giving it the ability to act. So we are back to unilateral action of a few claiming they are protecting themselves because their ability to protect the Syrians is limited

talaniman · Apr 14, 2018, 04:35 PM

No doubt Assad has his own stockpile and has had one going way back to his own father. It's easy enough to mass manufacture. Process and procedures in any institution are only as good as the ones who adhere to it and the world is still dominated by the rules of sovereign nations and the rulers who want to keep their power. Easy to see the Russian interest in Syria, they have an important military base and fingers in some important natural resources, so keeping Assad in power is crucial to them.

This civil war has costs multi millions to suffer and die WITHOUT the gassing. Assad and Russia have won. They should have been taken out instead of just warned about using gas.

paraclete · Apr 14, 2018, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

No doubt Assad has his own stockpile and has had one going way back to his own father. It's easy enough to mass manufacture. Process and procedures in any institution are only as good as the ones who adhere to it and the world is still dominated by the rules of sovereign nations and the rulers who want to keep their power. Easy to see the Russian interest in Syria, they have an important military base and fingers in some important natural resources, so keeping Assad in power is crucial to them.

This civil war has costs multi millions to suffer and die WITHOUT the gassing. Assad and Russia have won. They should have been taken out instead of just warned about using gas.

Yes Assad should have been taken out by a cruise missile, but it is a very blunt instrument and there is no plan for what happens to Syria after you do that. The lesson of Libya and Iraq is obvious, you just don't take out the established government and leave a vacuum.

I agree that Assad has won, six years, hundreds of thousands of lives and he has won, a few rebels remain and he is not magnanimous enough to offer and end to it

tomder55 · Apr 15, 2018, 03:16 AM

This is Putin's quagmire . Wack their capabilities and let him figure out how to keep A$$hat in power .He has won nothing . Without Russian shadow army mercs he would be worm food .

paraclete · Apr 15, 2018, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

This is Putin's quagmire . Wack their capabilities and let him figure out how to keep A$$hat in power .He has won nothing . Without Russian shadow army mercs he would be worm food .

And one day he may be, but as you say leave him to it, the arabs have ways of dealing with despots that the rest of us haven't conceived, a thousand camels and all that

talaniman · Apr 15, 2018, 06:59 AM

If he or his father for that matter followed the teachings of their own religion then we wouldn't be here would we? His claim to Islamic ways is BS by deeds. Given the long history of foreign domination though it's no wonder that Assad and his father have used whatever means they can to retain power, with the help of Russia and their fellow Shia's Iran, who have gone through their own occupations by colonial powers from the west.

paraclete · Apr 15, 2018, 03:03 PM

Don't bring religion into this Tal, you can't expect anything from muslims but lies. Iran may have been misused by the west, but occupied?

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