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  • Feb 11, 2020, 02:03 AM
    Athos
    Trump's Budget
    Remember when he said he would eliminate the federal debt, or at least halve it, during his presidency? His new budget proposes to add another $3.4 trillion by 2024 to the debt on top of the $3 trillion Trump has already added, by piling on $1-trillion-a-year budget deficits during a peacetime expansion. Under Trump’s latest plans, the debt would keep mushrooming until at least 2035 — by his administration’s own rosy projections.

    Recall his repeated promises not to “touch” Social Security and Medicare? Even as the elderly population swells, his budget calls for removing half a trillion dollars of funding from the Medicare program over 10 years, including $135 billion from Medicaid.program over 10 years, including $135 billion from Medicare prescription drugs, and tens of billions from the Social Security program.

    He promised not to touch Medicaid, either. Now he wants to cut it by $920 billion.

    He was going to give Americans health care “much better” than Obamacare. But he has proposed no such thing and now his budget calls for cutting spending on the program by $844 billion.

    Fraud.

    Remember his vows that his tax cuts would grow the economy by 4 percent, 5 percent or even 6 percent? Last year it grew at 2.3 percent, and his new budget, even with the rosiest of assumptions, projects 2.8 percent for this year. Yet the budget would also devote another $1.4 trillion to extending those tax cuts, primarily for the rich.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 06:23 AM
    talaniman
    Isn't the biggest talent this dufus has is to talk what people whose votes he counts on want to hear while stabbing them in the back with his constant stream of lies? I doubt he even reads his own budgets just gives an aide an outline that he later fills in with wait for it...more lies! He may be a dufus and all, no doubt, but he knows full well he gets nothing, and probably wants nothing really except to do what he does best and that's lie, cheat, and steal, and find someone he can BULLY!

    Think about it. Since he got to the WH that's ALL he has done. If he wins re election that's all he will do.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 08:34 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Remember when he said he would eliminate the federal debt, or at least halve it, during his presidency? His new budget proposes to add another $3.4 trillion by 2024 to the debt on top of the $3 trillion Trump has already added, by piling on $1-trillion-a-year budget deficits during a peacetime expansion. Under Trump’s latest plans, the debt would keep mushrooming until at least 2035 — by his administration’s own rosy projections.
    I had hoped we had elected the "anti-Obama", but rather sadly he is behaving just as Obama did in this regard. Very disappointing.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 10:14 AM
    talaniman
    He behaves like a lying, cheating, stealing, bullying dufus in most regards and that's even more dissapointing. No surprise there though! Shocking that people cheer him on for more of it.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 01:36 PM
    Vacuum7
    Hold your pant's on ya'll: TRUMP WILL HAVE ANOTHER, ALMOST, 5 YEARS TO SORT ALL THIS OUT! Maybe he will get to it in his 2nd Term!
  • Feb 11, 2020, 01:58 PM
    tomder55
    like the President's budget is ever passed . Please let's stop insulting each other by pretending that either party gives a rat's patoot about budget restraint;or saving the SS ponzi scheme and Medicare from their inevasible collapses . I knew before Trump ran that he was a big state pol with big ideas about how the Feds could spend our money . The good news is that he has more economic sense than any of the Dems who will likely oppose him in the coming fall campaign. But I have no illusions . There is no one running who is either one who believes in fiscal restraint ;or has a clue about what federalism or the framers intended .
  • Feb 11, 2020, 02:05 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The good news is that he has more economic sense than any of the Dems who will likely oppose him in the coming fall campaign.

    The bad news is that Trump is clueless about the economy. His "policies" are designed for one thing only - to garner votes so that he can continue to plunder the Treasury and join the billionaires club.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 03:25 PM
    talaniman
    His words and actions are self evident. He gets his or nobody gets nothing and he has out blustered everybody into a state of fear, and desperation. That's how he got where he is, exploiting fear and desperation. The good news is that may be what gets him out of office.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 04:12 PM
    jlisenbe
    We're setting records with this economy but Trump is clueless? Wow. Wish Obama had been clueless in that same fashion.
  • Feb 11, 2020, 05:56 PM
    paraclete
    Politics is the art of the possible, so you have ambit claims and you have what the parties will agree to
  • Feb 11, 2020, 06:30 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    We're setting records with this economy but Trump is clueless? Wow. Wish Obama had been clueless in that same fashion.

    Are you going to toot the dufus horn again knowing good and darn well it's a false note? The dufus cut taxes like all repub presidents before him especially after the dems spend 8 years getting it back in shape from repub legal fiscal
    stealing for 8 years.

    Why is this time different?
  • Feb 11, 2020, 07:13 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Are you going to toot the dufus horn again knowing good and darn well it's a false note? The dufus cut taxes like all repub presidents before him especially after the dems spend 8 years getting it back in shape from repub legal fiscal
    stealing for 8 years.

    reducing taxes is not stealing, taxation is theft
  • Feb 11, 2020, 07:46 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    reducing taxes is not stealing, taxation is theft

    right on especially income tax .
  • Feb 12, 2020, 03:34 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    reducing taxes is not stealing, taxation is theft

    Reducing rich guy taxes and not mine sure is, especially when you also cut things that benefit ME in the process. Bad enough rich guys control the money flow, and my wages, insurance and everything else I count on, but prices too? In addition my elected official works for them while I pay their salary and benefits. That's not okay either.

    Where's that raise I've been waiting decades on?
  • Feb 12, 2020, 05:35 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Reducing rich guy taxes and not mine sure is, especially when you also cut things that benefit ME in the process. Bad enough rich guys control the money flow, and my wages, insurance and everything else I count on, but prices too? In addition my elected official works for them while I pay their salary and benefits. That's not okay either.

    Where's that raise I've been waiting decades on?

    Well Tal perhaps you should ask your congressman, but be sure to ask your boss first
  • Feb 12, 2020, 05:42 AM
    talaniman
    My congressman is asking for money I don't have but the local rich guy does and the boss says he can't afford to give me a raise because he has to pay my elected official to get him MO'Money. Vicious cycle.
  • Feb 12, 2020, 06:36 AM
    Vacuum7
    Athos: Trump has been a BILLIONAIRE for a long time...he can't "join" a club of which he is already a member.

    Trump also DOES NOT need to show his tax returns: NONE OF OUR BUSINESS....and SCOTUS SAID SO!

    Trump had the GREATEST WEEK OF HIS PRESIDENCY LAST WEEK:
    1) Acquitted in Impeachment fiasco
    2) Approval Rating hit highest mark of his time in Office
    3) Threw three "bums" off their "spy" jobs, those being Sondland and the two Vindman backstabbers
    4) Found out and got rid of 72 "Deep State" Obama holdovers who were spying and leaking on the White House: BIG HIT!!!
    5) Gave the State Of The Union speech and provoked Nancy to show her true colors and throw an infantile fit for the American People to see

    Things ain't looking good for the home team but looking GREAT FOR TRUMP!
  • Feb 12, 2020, 06:41 AM
    tomder55
    Your Congressman is spending so much time fundraising for himself ;and voting on nonsense like impeachment that he doesn't have time to address your concerns . Term limits ... but that amendment won't happen if we wait for Congress to pass it .
  • Feb 12, 2020, 06:46 AM
    jlisenbe
    Vac and Tom, those were two really good posts, especially that parts about tax returns and Trump's good week.
  • Feb 12, 2020, 07:07 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Your Congressman is spending so much time fundraising for himself ;and voting on nonsense like impeachment that he doesn't have time to address your concerns . Term limits ... but that amendment won't happen if we wait for Congress to pass it .

    Impeachment is over the repubs stopped it in it's tracks and money is power in politics. Rich guys fix everything with a few bucks, from parking tickets to elections to the bulge in their pockets. Impeachment doesn't explain the decades of bread going up and my wages didn't. Money in politics does though.
  • Feb 13, 2020, 06:30 AM
    Vacuum7
    Talaniman: Not getting into the CLASS WARFARE stuff....I just can not see the value of being bitter toward those that have more than I do, its just not valued added time and life is too short.....BUT, I do acknowledge that that you have a point about the rich in some regards....problem is that the rich are kind of like women: Can't live with them, can't live without them! There is a lot of truth in that analogy.
  • Feb 13, 2020, 07:42 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Talaniman: Not getting into the CLASS WARFARE stuff....I just can not see the value of being bitter toward those that have more than I do, its just not valued added time and life is too short.....BUT, I do acknowledge that that you have a point about the rich in some regards....problem is that the rich are kind of like women: Can't live with them, can't live without them! There is a lot of truth in that analogy.

    Not being bitter at all Vac, but you failed to explain why the cost of rent, bread and toilet paper goes up and my paycheck does NOT! The very notion of giving rich guys enough money to trickle down hasn't help me at all! How about you?
  • Feb 13, 2020, 08:25 AM
    Vacuum7
    No....must admit: I never really got the big paydays when I made the bosses more money.....there was never a corresponding reaction that I could testify to be congruent....got big paydays and bonuses on mediocre years...no explanation, really.
  • Feb 13, 2020, 08:34 AM
    jlisenbe
    The average person in America is much better off financially now than 30 years ago. I don't know about you, Tal, personally, but on average people are doing better. Your contention might be true for you, but it is not true for most people.
  • Feb 13, 2020, 04:13 PM
    paraclete
    only in america
  • Feb 13, 2020, 06:27 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The average person in America is much better off financially now than 30 years ago. I don't know about you, Tal, personally, but on average people are doing better. Your contention might be true for you, but it is not true for most people.

    You of all people know that making a statement not supported by data as evidence is just your humble opinion. Opinions are okay, but do you have evidence that it's more than opinion.
  • Feb 13, 2020, 07:55 PM
    jlisenbe
    You should know by now that I can back up my statements. Read em and learn. These figures, btw, are already adjusted for inflation, so your price of bread is "baked in" already. I think my statement was thirty years, so we have gone from around 54K to around 62K and that is two years ago. It's higher than that now https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rough_2018.png
  • Feb 13, 2020, 08:30 PM
    paraclete
    That doesn't mean they are better off, that measures medium income so that means it is influenced by the high rollers and multi-job families and doesn't measure what happens to the people on the bottom nor does it measure the impact of inflation
  • Feb 14, 2020, 03:05 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    That doesn't mean they are better off, that measures medium income so that means it is influenced by the high rollers and multi-job families and doesn't measure what happens to the people on the bottom nor does it measure the impact of inflation
    It's adjusted for inflation so it does measure that impact. It's been using the same metric for decades so whatever influences it now are the same things that influenced it fifty years ago.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 05:26 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It's adjusted for inflation so it does measure that impact. It's been using the same metric for decades so whatever influences it now are the same things that influenced it fifty years ago.

    Boy you would believe anything, I have a nice harbour side bridge going cheap, you can get at 50 year old prices, but you have to be quick
  • Feb 14, 2020, 05:59 AM
    jlisenbe
    So when you run out of reason, you employ ridicule? I have found that most people like statistics except, of course, for the ones they DON'T like, and those are the ones that don't fit into their preconceived notions. You need to check out what "Real Median Household Income" means. It's not an invention of the Trump administration. It's been around for decades.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 10:46 AM
    talaniman
    How many people you think fall below the median do you think as Clete has asked? That as important a FACT as your chart, which also shows the growth of the economy slowing. Not an unpredictable thing though.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 11:21 AM
    jlisenbe
    How many people fall below the median? Well, just like ten or twenty or forty years ago, it would be a lot. That's kind of why its called a "median". It's an important fact that everyone who knows anything about statistics already would be well aware of.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 12:25 PM
    talaniman
    How many people fall below the median NOW is the question. They are humans too, so should we just ignore them or something while we cheer those that are at and above. Can't think of doing a damn thing for them can you?
  • Feb 14, 2020, 01:37 PM
    jlisenbe
    The median in statistics is always the middle value. So 50% of the people are above the median, and 50% are above the median, just like always. That never changes. It clearly shows that most people are making more now than in 2012. It is not an average, so it's not swayed just because the richest 100 double their income. I would think it is a valuable stat and a reliable one.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 02:03 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The median in statistics is always the middle value. So 50% of the people are above the median, and 50% are above the median, just like always. That never changes. It clearly shows that most people are making more now than in 2012. It is not an average, so it's not swayed just because the richest 100 double their income. I would think it is a valuable stat and a reliable one.

    It measures incomes not people and what that shows is 50% of incomes are below the median, it doesn't tell you how many incomes are measured but there are more in the series than 50 years ago, many more, so it is another statistic that lies
  • Feb 14, 2020, 03:00 PM
    talaniman
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-middle-class/

    If we accept the 29% of Americans below the median in a country of about 325M then 95,410,000 are below the median. If we accept that 12.3 as a poverty rate 40,467,000 are in poverty. That's a lot of folks by any measure to just blow off.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 03:00 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It measures incomes not people and what that shows is 50% of incomes are below the median, it doesn't tell you how many incomes are measured but there are more in the series than 50 years ago, many more, so it is another statistic that lies
    Well, there are more people making income now than 50 years ago, and so yes, there would more now than then. As to 50% of incomes are below the median, that's ALWAYS how it is. That's what a median is. It is a valid comparison to years past and that is its usefulness. It doesn't tell you how many incomes are measured? So? You have no valid criticism of this stat other than 50% of the incomes are below the median(by definition!) and it doesn't tell you how many incomes are measured. None of that is valid. You're just listing obvious truths about the stat.
  • Feb 14, 2020, 05:30 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-middle-class/

    If we accept the 29% of Americans below the median in a country of about 325M then 95,410,000 are below the median. If we accept that 12.3 as a poverty rate 40,467,000 are in poverty. That's a lot of folks by any measure to just blow off.

    What part of median do you not understand, median is the mid point so 50% of incomes are below the median, how many are American citizens, well that is an unknown
  • Feb 14, 2020, 05:42 PM
    talaniman
    I only used the data given. No matter what data you use say 50% that's 160M bellow the median, but that figure does not allow for the number that is in the median so bring better data and we get more accurate figures. I get your inference about non Americans, but for the sake of argument we use for both above and bellow median as <50, and >50 respectively.

    Either way you cut it, its still a lot of people which was my original point.

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