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jlisenbe · Mar 11, 2019, 07:23 PM

So surely the answer lies in amnesty and a path to citizenship, a one off you might say, so that you don't have to hunt down anyone but criminals

Yeah. We can reward those who came in illegally. That would be the right thing to do.

Amnesty and a green card, yes. Path to citizenship? No way.

paraclete · Mar 11, 2019, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yeah. We can reward those who came in illegally. That would be the right thing to do.

Amnesty and a green card, yes. Path to citizenship? No way.

Why, once they are legally contributing to the nation, you could place some limits on it, such as 10 years residency after a certain date, no convictions, etc

Not suggesting you reward them, just recognise the inevietable. Look, some want to legalise drugs to solve a problem, is this different? take away the angst and put resources to something more productive. Protecting the border instead of chasing illegals all over the country, no more need for sanctuarys

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 04:45 AM

Why, once they are legally contributing to the nation, you could place some limits on it, such as 10 years residency after a certain date, no convictions, etc.

That could at least be a starting point for discussion. I'll grant you that. One thing is for sure is those people are not going to leave and we have no means to kick them out, so we need to come to some settlement. In the meantime, build the wall so we don't allow a big problem to become even bigger.

paraclete · Mar 12, 2019, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That could at least be a starting point for discussion. I'll grant you that. One thing is for sure is those people are not going to leave and we have no means to kick them out, so we need to come to some settlement. In the meantime, build the wall so we don't allow a big problem to become even bigger.

Yes but half your country doesn't believe in it or won't allow Trump to have any sort of victory, so time for Plan B.

Sometimes you have to think bigger to solve a problem, pay Mexico to police the border, they are never going to pay for a wall but changing the game might achieve the objective

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 05:40 AM

I'm all for plan B so long as the "B" stands for Build the wall.

talaniman · Mar 12, 2019, 08:06 AM

Plan A should have been a humane process for men women and children that is both comprehensive and efficient. God might be watching.

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 08:58 AM

It's always easy to be humane and caring when you are using someone else's money.

talaniman · Mar 12, 2019, 09:11 AM

We are using OUR money. Lawfully and legally collected as tax as per our Constitution by OUR government, feckless and incompetent though it may be.

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 10:47 AM

Well, if you are talking about using OUR money, then I would prefer to use OUR money to build the wall. We are already spending all kinds of money for "humane" causes so let's spend some on what will work, which is a wall.

Wondergirl · Mar 12, 2019, 10:51 AM

let's spend some on what will work, which is a wall.

But it WON'T work!!!!!!!

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 10:59 AM

Well, walls work everywhere else, so I have no idea why we would not try this. It can't be any worse than what we are doing now.

talaniman · Mar 12, 2019, 11:22 AM

Like where do they work?

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 11:31 AM

Every prison in the world. Every gated community in America. The Vatican. The White House. The 75 miles currently on the southern border. Iran, Pakistan, India, Brunei, China, Thailand, Austria, Greece, and Hungary have all built or are building border walls.

Do they work perfectly? Of course not. Nothing does, but if someone escapes from jail, we don't just go in and tear down the walls.

Better question. Tell me where they DON'T work.

Wondergirl · Mar 12, 2019, 02:42 PM

Where they DON'T work:

Every prison in the world.
Every gated community in America.
The Vatican.
The White House.
The 75 miles currently on the southern border.
Iran, Pakistan, India, Brunei, China, Thailand, Austria, Greece, and Hungary
The Great Wall of China
Hadrian's Wall in England
The Western Wall
The Berlin Wall
Etc.

jlisenbe · Mar 12, 2019, 03:19 PM

WG, you can't be serious. To suggest that a wall does not work because the occasional person manages to breach it is on the level of saying I will no longer lock my front door at night because locked doors don't stop everyone. Nothing works all the time, but it is better to build a wall, if for no other reason, to at least make the enemy put out much greater effort to cross it, and thereby know that you will be, not perfectly safe, but much safer than you would have been otherwise.

We can have two plans for a prison. Plan A is to build a wall knowing that someone might get out. Plan B is to build no wall and know that EVERYONE will get out.

I think I'll go with Plan A.

paraclete · Mar 12, 2019, 04:15 PM

You want your borderl to be 100% effective, you are going to have to kill someone. The idea of a wall is to avoid killing

tomder55 · Mar 13, 2019, 02:12 PM

so the idea is that if it is not 100% effective ,it should not be tried ? What a silly argument . I can assure you no one unauthorized crosses the Azerbaijan Baku border with Russia .

Wondergirl · Mar 13, 2019, 02:21 PM

WG, you can't be serious.

I surely hope you aren't. There are so many other, better ways to secure our southern border and control who tries to cross it. This is 2019, not the Middle Ages.

jlisenbe · Mar 13, 2019, 02:40 PM

I surely hope you aren't. There are so many other, better ways to secure our southern border and control who tries to cross it. This is 2019, not the Middle Ages.

I can't think of anything better than a wall.

paraclete · Mar 13, 2019, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

so the idea is that if it is not 100% effective ,it should not be tried ? What a silly argument . I can assure you no one unauthorized crosses the Azerbaijan Baku border with Russia .

Now if you had a short border and snow capped mountains your border may be more effective. I think it comes down to what happens to you if you are caught