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    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #101

    Sep 20, 2021, 10:37 AM
    You've never answered these two questions: How would you handle it if YOUR unmarried daughter got pregnant? What would happen to the newborn?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 909, Reputation: 55
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    #102

    Sep 20, 2021, 10:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    You've never answered these two questions: How would you handle it if YOUR unmarried daughter got pregnant? What would happen to the newborn?
    He'd abort that sucker faster than you can say "Jack Robinson". He even knows HOW to do it.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #103

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:04 AM
    You've never answered these two questions: How would you handle it if YOUR unmarried daughter got pregnant? What would happen to the newborn?
    I most certainly did. Post 46. Pay attention.

    He'd abort that sucker
    What a sick statement. That explains your position. Unborn children are just "suckers" to you. To me, they are people deserving of protection. You'll be remembering that sick statement for a long time.

    Unanswered questions.

    1. How would you kill the 19 week fetus if you were the doctor?
    2. You said you were in favor of restrictions, but now you seem not to be. Which way is it?
    3. Is WG smarter than a medical school website? (rhetorical)
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #104

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I most certainly did. Post 46. Pay attention.
    Pay attention??? You answered only ONE of my questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    3. Is WG smarter than a medical school website? (rhetorical)
    I'm certainly a better googler than you are, thanks to 28 years in public libraries. (factual)
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 909, Reputation: 55
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    #105

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    To me, they are people deserving of protection.
    Yeah, except when you choose to abort them.

    You'll be remembering that sick statement for a long time.
    That statement - " He'd abort that sucker faster than you can say "Jack Robinson". - was obviously sarcasm. But you will cling to it like a fly on s**t.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #106

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:26 AM
    I'm certainly a better googler than you are, thanks to 28 years in public libraries. (factual)
    Then you need to start exhibiting it here. So far, you've shown nothing. You offered your own silly opinion which was at variance with a med school. Saying that suction abortions and D&E abortions are never needed is just a really uneducated comment. Sorry, but that's how it is. End of story.

    What would we do with the newborn? Those questions are hard to answer. When my daughter was at that age, wifey and I were fifty or so. At that age, we'd likely encourage our daughter to keep the child and we'd pitch in to help. At our age now (late sixties) adoption would be a better course. Of course our daughter would have a big say in the matter. But I would never consent to killing the unborn child, and would NEVER refer to it as a "sucker". WG, I know you practically worship Athos, but it's a stain on you to not object to that sickening reference.

    That statement - " He'd abort that sucker faster than you can say "Jack Robinson". - was obviously sarcasm. But you will cling to it like a fly on s**t.
    Yeah. You got caught in your little sick game, and now you're mad. Sorry, but you own it now. And your little cussing exhibition, like a three year old, looks even worse.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 909, Reputation: 55
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    #107

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Yeah. You got caught in your little sick game, and now you're mad. Sorry, but you own it now. And your little cussing exhibition, like a three year old, looks even worse.
    Jl, I understand your need to fight back. But if anyone here is "caught", clearly it is YOU.

    Your replies get more and more desperate as you sink deeper and deeper into the morass of your own making. Absurd and bizarre, tho' it is.

    From your confusion about your own stated position on abortion, to your willful ignorance re the Covid effects from the SD motorcycle rally, to your quite revealing position on standing before God and telling the truth, and now to the pathetic comment above, you have nowhere to go, Jl.

    Try the truth and try to learn from your betters here. You'll be much better off.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #108

    Sep 20, 2021, 11:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Then you need to start exhibiting it here. So far, you've shown nothing. You offered your own silly opinion which was at variance with a med school.
    Apparently you want a plethora of links that you will happily read. So noted.
    Saying that suction abortions and D&E abortions are never needed is just a really dumb comment.
    I said "never"? Please give us the Post #.
    What would we do with the newborn? Those questions are hard to answer. When my daughter was at that age, wifey and I were fifty or so. At that age, we'd likely encourage our daughter to keep the child and we'd pitch in to help.
    That would be a lot on the plate of a 15 y/o girl. Up at night with a squalling infant. Breastfeeding or bottle feeding? Doctor visits. The new mom wants to go to school events, dances, go on dates, has to do homework, go to the library after school. She and her parents may be shunned by other students and neighbors and church members because she is an unmarried mother. And on and on.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #109

    Sep 20, 2021, 01:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    1. How would you kill the 19 week fetus if you were the doctor?
    After the fourteenth week of pregnancy, scraping methods can no longer be used; instead the uterus must be induced to expel the fetus, resulting in premature labor. In the saltwater method, a needle is inserted through the abdominal and uterine walls and into the amniotic sac. A portion of the amniotic fluid is removed; a saline solution is then injected between the uterine wall and the amnion, forcing their separation. After a day or so, contractions begin. The woman goes through labor and delivery to expel the fetus.
    https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/abortion
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #110

    Sep 20, 2021, 02:38 PM
    That would be a lot on the plate of a 15 y/o girl. Up at night with a squalling infant. Breastfeeding or bottle feeding? Doctor visits. The new mom wants to go to school events, dances, go on dates, has to do homework, go to the library after school. She and her parents may be shunned by other students and neighbors and church members because she is an unmarried mother. And on and on.
    Not having your belief that killing the baby is much preferable to a person having to undergo some healthy hardship and actually having to forego going to a dance (gasp!!), I'd stick with my decision. You think that's hard? Go back 200 years ago. Study some history. Read about the Dust Bowl in the 30's. Try telling your daughter when she's 12 that getting pregnant out of wedlock is heck.

    Sorry, but having to choose between something called the The Embryo Project Encyclopedia and a med school site, I'll go with the med school site every time. I still find it strange how you find it comforting to come up with some supposedly non-violent method of killing the unborn baby in that picture. Does it help you sleep at night?

    Post 47. "You certainly jump to conclusions. No, it had nothing to do with that at all. A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus."
    Post 62. "No, a fetus no matter how far along doesn't have to be ripped or suctioned out of a woman's uterus."

    Happy now?

    How would you kill the 19 week fetus if you were the doctor?
    So you are happy with the method you described above? That's what you would do to the 19 week fetus in the picture? What do you tell the mother to do with her little baby? Flush it down the toilet? Get rid of the little "sucker"?

    Other sites that confirm a D&E is done in the second twelve weeks. Would you like more? I can get them easily.

    https://www.mottchildren.org/health-library/tw2462
    https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org...ion-d-e.tw2462
    https://www.springfieldrtl.org/abort...n-de-abortion/
    https://www.stlukesonline.org/health...-evacuation-de
    https://safe2choose.org/faq/mva-faq/...and-evacuaiton
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #111

    Sep 20, 2021, 02:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Not having your belief that killing the baby is much preferable to a person having to undergo some healthy hardship and actually having to forego going to a dance (gasp!!)
    And as the grandfather, you would regularly put her down, shame her, belittle her, rage at her for being so stupid. And leave all the work and care to your wife and daughter.
    I still find it strange how you find it comforting to come up with some supposedly non-violent method of killing the unborn baby in that picture.
    I answered your question.
    Post 47. "You certainly jump to conclusions. No, it had nothing to do with that at all. A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus."

    So you are happy with the method you described above? That's what you would do to the 19 week fetus in the picture?
    Sure beats ripping and suctioning.
    What do you tell the mother to do with her little baby? Flush it down the toilet? Get rid of the little "sucker"?
    I'd certainly be more empathetic than you would be with a teen daughter who had sex out of wedlock and became a mother because of that.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #112

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:00 PM
    And as the grandfather, you would regularly put her down, shame her, belittle her, rage at her for being so stupid. And leave all the work and care to your wife and daughter.
    How did you come to that stupid conclusion? It's just your prejudice at work. And you are the one who claims to be in favor of being kind and understanding? Well, so much for that with you.

    Sure beats ripping and suctioning.
    But you're in favor of ripping and suctioning as well! There's no method you are willing to go on record against. You seem to love it all.

    EId certainly be more empathetic than you eould be with a teen daughter who had sex out of wedlock and became a mother because of that.
    No you wouldn't. You'd have the unborn killed and forego having to inconvenience yourself. Between the two of us, I'm the one who would put my life on hold to raise a grandchild, and would love him/her with all my heart. You're the one voting for death. And when your daughter is twenty years older and torn with guilt, you'll get to explain to her why you voted that way.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #113

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:08 PM
    I hope you saw this.

    Other sites that confirm a D&E is done in the second twelve weeks. Would you like more? I can get them easily.

    https://www.mottchildren.org/health-library/tw2462
    https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org...ion-d-e.tw2462
    https://www.springfieldrtl.org/abort...n-de-abortion/
    https://www.stlukesonline.org/health...-evacuation-de
    https://safe2choose.org/faq/mva-faq/...and-evacuaiton

    And this.

    Post 47. "You certainly jump to conclusions. No, it had nothing to do with that at all. A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus."
    Post 62. "No, a fetus no matter how far along doesn't have to be ripped or suctioned out of a woman's uterus."

    Happy now?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #114

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I hope you saw this.

    Other sites that confirm a D&E is done in the second twelve weeks. Would you like more? I can get them easily.
    A D&E is NOT the only method of expelling the fetus.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    How did you come to that stupid conclusion?
    It seems to be your m.o.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #115

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:15 PM
    No one ever said it was. There is suction, and there are even worse methods used in the third trimester. Want to hear about them? Oh well. It wouldn't make any difference to you. Your mind is made up absent any real evidence. Besides, if you really cared, you would already know.

    A D&E does not EXPEL the fetus. The fetus is pulled apart and taken out in pieces, and you are happy with that? Is there nothing so shocking that you would be repulsed by it?

    It was not my stupid, unkind, and inaccurate conclusion. It was yours, and based on no evidence at all. Sad. I do regret using the word "stupid", but I really don't know of a better descriptor.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #116

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But you're in favor of ripping and suctioning as well! There's no method you are willing to go on record against. You seem to love it all.
    R&S are not necessary.
    No you wouldn't. You'd have the unborn killed and forego having to inconvenience yourself. Between the two of us, I'm the one who would put my life on hold to raise a grandchild, and would love him/her with all my heart. You're the one voting for death. And when your daughter is twenty years older and torn with guilt, you'll get to explain to her why you voted that way.
    You are beyond mean!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Oh well. It wouldn't make any difference to you. Your mind is made up absent any real evidence. Besides, if you really cared, you would already know.
    I do know and posted it above.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #117

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:26 PM
    R&S are not necessary.
    That makes no sense.

    You are beyond mean!

    Is it not true?

    I do know and posted it above.
    You did not. You don't know the material.

    "A third trimester induction abortion is performed at 25 weeks LMP (25 weeks since the first day of the woman’s last period) to term. At 25 weeks, a baby is almost fully-developed and is considered viable, meaning he or she could survive outside the womb. For this reason, the abortionist will usually first kill the baby in utero by injecting a substance that causes cardiac arrest, and induces the mother’s labor to deliver her baby stillborn."

    https://www.abortionprocedures.com/induction/

    And you think my comment was mean? Look at what you're supporting and voting for. None of you here can bring yourselves to oppose this. It would violate your liberal orthodoxy. Kill them and deliver a dead baby. Pull out parts one at a time. Suction the little "sucker" out. You are in favor of all of it, and I honestly don't see how you can sleep at night.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,616, Reputation: 5430
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    #118

    Sep 20, 2021, 03:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    That makes no sense.

    You did not. You don't know the material.
    Again,

    After the fourteenth week of pregnancy, scraping methods can no longer be used; instead the uterus must be induced to expel the fetus, resulting in premature labor. In the saltwater method, a needle is inserted through the abdominal and uterine walls and into the amniotic sac. A portion of the amniotic fluid is removed; a saline solution is then injected between the uterine wall and the amnion, forcing their separation. After a day or so, contractions begin. The woman goes through labor and delivery to expel the fetus.
    https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/abortion
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #119

    Sep 20, 2021, 05:42 PM
    You have seen seven links to the contrary including one med school. But if you want to believe your fairy tale, then go for it.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,132, Reputation: 155
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    #120

    Sep 20, 2021, 06:40 PM
    The dilation and curettage method, or the D&C, has been practiced since even before abortion was legalized in the US, and is now called the D&E, or dilation and evacuation. At one time a physician gradually enlarged the woman’s cervix by inserting a series of increasingly thicker rods, but now the cervix is dilated by administering medication. The physician then gently scrapes out the contents of the uterus using a spoon-like instrument called a curette.
    This is the altogether inaccurate description of a D&E on that website you linked. It's preposterous.

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