Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #81

    Sep 19, 2021, 04:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I was right again! It's four for four now."
    I was right again. It's four for four now. Jl is a card-carrying supporter of abortion. This is not debatable. Jl has admitted it in his own words. Like most supporters of abortion, he doesn't like it but believes it is allowed in some cases. That is the mainstream opinion of most Americans and Jl fits right in. His hypocrisy notwithstanding, he cannot deny his own confession.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #82

    Sep 19, 2021, 04:49 PM
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you! You copied my post very ably. Well...somewhat ably.

    There is a significant difference between the two of us. I answer questions. You don't. I'll prove it! What about the other 99.99% of abortions that are not performed to save the life of the mother? What is your view of them? Do you defend them?

    BTW, the side order of hotly seasoned anger is not a pretty sight.

    Dear reader. Prepare to see my point proven...again.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #83

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    There is a significant difference between the two of us.
    Thank God for that. But the difference is not about abortion. In fact, our belief on abortion is identical. I don't like abortion, but I recognize there can be a legitimate reason to have an abortion. THAT IS PRECISELY THE IDENTICAL POSITION OF Jl WHICH HE HAS STATED RIGHT HERE ON THIS VERY WEBSITE AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY.

    Stop digging, Jl. The pit is deep enough. All you can do now is admit you lied or else shut your mouth about abortion forever.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #84

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:08 PM
    I don't like abortion, but I recognize there can be a legitimate reason to have an abortion.
    Well, that is an answer of some small sort. Of course you already have said you don't believe in unlimited abortions, and yet you also claim that we should not tell women what to do with their bodies. So the obvious question remains which you have yet to answer. What restrictions would you agree with, even understanding that it would automatically deprive women of some control over their bodies? In other words, what are those "legitimate reasons"?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,627, Reputation: 5430
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #85

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    BTW, the side order of hotly seasoned anger is not a pretty sight.
    Are you Hannibal "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" Lector???
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #86

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:16 PM
    You must keep up, dear WG. You must keep up. And why is your mind filled with such ghastly images? Good grief. "Hotly seasoned anger" somehow turns into cannibalism? What have you been watching?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #87

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    what are those "legitimate reasons"?
    The same reason you gave to support abortion.

    The issue here Jl is YOU and your stance on abortion. My position is well-known. I have never denied being pro-choice. All the rest of your blather is nothing but you deflecting away from yourself and your hypocrisy.

    You lost, Jl, stop making a fool of yourself.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #88

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:20 PM
    You're pro-choice, but you don't like abortion? Really? Why don't you like it?

    The only reason I have given is self defense, where the mother's life is clearly in danger. That hardly occurs ever any more. So you are saying ("The same reason you gave to support abortion") that reason is your legitimate reason? Well, if that's it, then how can you be pro-choice for the other 99.99% of abortions? You must have many other legitimate reasons you have not yet posted.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #89

    Sep 19, 2021, 05:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The only reason I have given is self defense, where the mother's life is clearly in danger.
    You're scrambling, Jl.

    Right above in black and white is your admission of being pro-choice. For you who constantly picks apart words and their plain meaning, this should be a slam dunk for you.

    Yet, you want to have it both ways. You want to admit to supporting abortion as you have done above, and yet you want to continue to criticize and condemn others who support abortion.

    It's over, Jl.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #90

    Sep 19, 2021, 06:33 PM
    I've been very open in my position. In that remarkably small sliver of cases where the woman's life is really endangered, I don't see much choice there. If the woman dies, the baby dies automatically, so nothing is gained. If the baby is viable, and it typically is, then it can be delivered and both survive. So it is certainly over in the sense that my answer is open and complete.

    This is my question from above which you did not address. I am trying to understand your position. "So you are saying ("The same reason you gave to support abortion") that reason is your legitimate reason? Well, if that's it, then how can you be pro-choice for the other 99.99% of abortions? You must have many other legitimate reasons you have not yet posted." Not trying to irritate you, but just trying to understand your position. So far, I have not seen any limitations you would place on abortion, so I assume you are OK with, for instance, partial birth abortions. Correct?

    One more point. You said earlier that I had posted a "painting". The pic of the 19 week fetus was simply a stock photo off the internet. There are many others like it. You can double check any pic by simply right clicking it, copying the image address, and putting it into a browser.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/cf...3f64c836f6.jpg
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,627, Reputation: 5430
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #91

    Sep 19, 2021, 06:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    If the woman dies, the baby dies automatically
    Not true.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #92

    Sep 19, 2021, 06:40 PM
    Not true.
    It is basically true. There are very rare cases where the baby survives, but it is very, very rare. Once the mother dies, the clock is ticking and ticking fast.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,627, Reputation: 5430
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #93

    Sep 19, 2021, 06:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Once the mother dies, the clock is ticking and ticking fast.
    Not if the pregnancy is in the third trimester.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #94

    Sep 19, 2021, 08:20 PM
    Yes it is. Once the mother dies, her heart stops beating. The baby depends upon her blood for oxygen at the placenta, so the clock starts ticking big time at that point. Time is measured in a very few minutes.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #95

    Sep 20, 2021, 02:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I've been very open in my position.
    No question about that - your position is supporting abortion. That discussion is over and done with.

    In that remarkably small sliver of cases where the woman's life is really endangered, I don't see much choice
    Small sliver, big sliver - that's supporting abortion.

    So it is certainly over in the sense that my answer is open and complete.
    Even with your attempts to ratonalize your abortion choice, you can't escape the fact that the attempt itself is obviously a pro-abortion stance.

    This is my question from above which you did not address. I am trying to understand your position.
    My position is simplicity itself to understand. I support pro-choice re abortion. There. Got it? Naturally, you're playing the diversion game again - change it from you to me. Too late, Jl, it won't work.

    Not trying to irritate you, but just trying to understand your position.
    Jl, read my lips. I-AM-PRO-CHOICE. There is nothing "to understand". Pro-choice means pro-choice. You have this weird problem with the plain meaning of words.

    I have not seen any limitations you would place on abortion
    Like any issue under the law, I support whatever the law states. Your attempt to involve me in your hypocrisy is a failure, Jl.

    You said earlier that I had posted a "painting". The pic of the 19 week fetus was simply a stock photo off the internet.
    A perfect example of your difficulty with the plain meaning of words. More straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Give it up, Jl. When you're down to painting vs. picture, it's all over.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #96

    Sep 20, 2021, 02:49 AM
    post deleted
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #97

    Sep 20, 2021, 05:15 AM
    You don't understand the difference between a painting and a picture? It's kind of significant. A painting can be intentionally inaccurate. Pictures...not so much.

    As to the rest, I can only assume that you have changed your position. You said earlier that you did not believe in unrestricted abortion and that you do not like abortion. Now you say are completely pro-choice. I find that hard to imagine. So partial birth abortions, the ghastly procedures described earlier, sucking the little baby out of the womb with a suction tube, or just any means for taking the life of an unborn baby is what you are for? You have no problem with the killing of the other 99.99% of babies? They mean nothing to you? A mother in the ninth month of pregnancy can have her baby killed with your approval? If that indeed is your position as you've stated, then you are, in effect, pro-death. That is hard for me to understand, but you did answer the question, and for that I commend you, but perhaps it has become apparent why you are so reluctant to provide answers.

    So our difference is now clear. I favor life for the 99.99% and mourn the loss of the .01%. You are OK with death for them all. Is that a fair statement?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #98

    Sep 20, 2021, 09:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You don't understand the difference between a painting and a picture? It's kind of significant.
    It is totally, completely insignificant in this discussion.

    As to the rest, I can only assume that you have changed your position. You said earlier that you did not believe in unrestricted abortion and that you do not like abortion. Now you say are completely pro-choice. I find that hard to imagine.
    Dear Lord! I have changed NOTHING! I am pro-choice. That means I support a woman's choice to have or not have an abortion. Nothing could be more clear except for the fact that you do not understand what pro-choice means.

    So our difference is now clear.
    Since you announced your acceptance of abortion depending on circumstances - which is the mainstream position - we're in agreement.

    I favor life for the 99.99% and mourn the loss of the .01%. You are OK with death for them all. Is that a fair statement?
    You are OK with the death of 4,000 fetuses every year. Is that a fair statement?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,141, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #99

    Sep 20, 2021, 10:02 AM
    Dear Lord! I have changed NOTHING! I am pro-choice. That means I support a woman's choice to have or not have an abortion. Nothing could be more clear except for the fact that you do not understand what pro-choice means.
    This was your initial statement. "I agree with the author of the piece and totally support a woman's right to choose. AT THE SAME TIME, being against completely unrestricted access to abortion does not mean a woman's RIGHT TO CHOOSE should be legally infringed." So that clearly seems to say that you are against "completely unrestricted access to abortion." Now you are simply saying you support a woman's choice to have or not have an abortion." So I can only assume you now support "unrestricted access to abortion." If not, then please state the restrictions you support. Otherwise, you are sanctioning, "...partial birth abortions, the ghastly procedures described earlier, sucking the little baby out of the womb with a suction tube, or just any means for taking the life of an unborn baby..." If you are not OK with any of those, then please say so.

    BTW, the author of the piece, who you said you agreed with, said this. "I do not support completely unrestricted access to abortion." Still waiting to hear what those restrictions are which you would agree with.

    When a house is fully engulfed in fire, firefighters do not allow the mother to run back in to attempt to save her children since they know it will accomplish nothing and just result in the mother's death. In the same way with abortion, rather than lose the mother AND baby, it is best to preserve the mother's life. It is one of the terrible tragedies of life, just like the housefire. 4,000? A fantastic exaggeration. Remember what Guttmacher said?

    Alan Guttmacher of Planned Parenthood did more to promote and spread abortion on demand throughout the world than any other individual. Nearly fifty years ago, he commented, “Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life.”
    But anyone who endorses 900,000 abortions a year for, as I understand you, any and all reasons looks a little strange with his supposed concern about 4,000, don't you think?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 910, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #100

    Sep 20, 2021, 10:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    you are simply saying you support a woman's choice to have or not have an abortion.
    That's correct.

    In abortion, rather than lose the mother AND baby, it is best to preserve the mother's life.
    That is a CHOICE made in favor of the life of the mother over the life of the baby. Others may choose the life of the baby over the life of the mother. In either case, it is a CHOICE.

    4,000? A fantastic exaggeration.
    Not a bit exaggerated. The figure is from a number of sites including the World Health Organization. It is the number from your statistic of .01% whose loss you "mourn". Apparently, you say things off the top of your head when they could easily be verified by a simple internet search.

    But anyone who endorses 900,000 abortions a year looks a little strange with his supposed concern about 4,000, don't you think?
    What I think is that you can't see things accurately. Pro-choice does NOT mean "endorsement". The 4,000 figure is YOUR number of abortions whose loss you "mourn".

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

The new Texas abortion law is unconstitutional [ 1 Answers ]

No ;not because it violates the unconstitutional 'Roe v Wade ' decision It is unconstitutional because it creates what the libs call a vigilante system where someone not involved in the specific case can bring a civil case forward . SCOTUS did not hear the case over procedural issues. When...

What was the impact of delay in taking Anti D injection after medical abortion [ 0 Answers ]

My wife had a medical abortion 5years ago,her blood group is B- but we forgot to take ANTI D INJECTION and it was taken after 14 days later .is there is any problem in the time of next pregnancy

Computer viruses masking itself as an anti-virus program [ 2 Answers ]

Help! I purchases a laptop for my daughter in May. A Toshiba from Best Buy. Suddenly appearing on the computer is some type of security software from Best Buy that keeps popping up asking for $50. To activate. The pop-up keeps popping up all over the screen to the point that you cannot use the...

How come that swine flu is now able to cause a pandemic? [ 2 Answers ]

Even though both the classical swine flu and humans seasonal flu H1N1 originate from Spanish flu 1918.

Influenza pandemic [ 1 Answers ]

If the bird flu virus gained the ability to pass between humans. In what ways would it affect the UK? And what would be do to resolve them?


View more questions Search