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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #41

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:11 PM
    Counseling will include discussion of all those issues.
    Evasion number 516.

    And still no explanation of what point you were trying to make in post 21. Just more evasion and suggestions to look here and look there. Forbid it that you should just state your meaning.

    Evasion.

    Post 22.
    You've just been told that post 22 had nothing at all to do with post 21. One was about the size of the unborn child at 19 weeks while the other was about your accepted reasons for an abortion at 19 weeks. Evasion 517.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #42

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:16 PM
    This is interesting and probably not a unique experience.

    A medical abortion at 19 weeks
    https://www.pregnancychoicesdirector...on-at-19-weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Evasion number 516.
    Why is that an evasion?
    You've just been told that post 22 had nothing at all to do with post 21. One was about the size of the unborn child at 19 weeks while the other was about your accepted reasons for an abortion at 19 weeks. Evasion 517.
    I have absolutely no clue what your problem is.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #43

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:21 PM
    Well, this is obviously not going to be answered. "And still no explanation of what point you were trying to make in post 21. Just more evasion and suggestions to look here and look there. Forbid it that you should just state your meaning."

    Although I was aborting my baby, there was no question about the love I had for it, so giving that baby up to somebody else would have been impossible for me to do.
    A titanically stupid observation. It amounts to saying, "I love my baby so much that I'm going to let someone brutally kill it rather than give him/her the beautiful option of being raised by another family and have an opportunity to live."

    Just amazing to me how your liberal philosophy has led you down such an indefensible road.

    Why is that an evasion?
    Because you have steadfastly refused to answer the question. Simple.

    You've just been told that post 22 had nothing at all to do with post 21. One was about the size of the unborn child at 19 weeks while the other was about your accepted reasons for an abortion at 19 weeks. Evasion 517.


    I have absolutely no clue what your problem is.
    I think you do. You're a smart woman and you know the game you're playing. "Oh, just look at post 22 which has nothing whatsoever to do with post 21 and you'll get your answer!!" Please.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #44

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Well, this is obviously not going to be answered. "And still no explanation of what point you were trying to make in post 21. Just more evasion and suggestions to look here and look there. Forbid it that you should just state your meaning."
    Post #21 was a description of a 19-week fetus. What is your question?

    My point was how tiny and incomplete a 19-week-old fetus is.
    A titanically stupid observation. It amounts to saying, "I love my baby so much that I'm going to let someone brutally kill it rather than give him/her the beautiful option of being raised by another family and have an opportunity to live."
    The fetus was not viable at 19 weeks. The mother was 15. Had she been your daughter and the center of ribald humor and nastiness at school, what would you have suggested and how would you have handled her going through the entire pregnancy?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 906, Reputation: 55
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    #45

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Once again I predicted your response correctly.

    Just more theatrics.
    No, all you did was evade my comments about your anti-abortion stance. It's theatrics when your abortion stance is challenged, but self-defense when you approve abortion for yourself. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You are more repulsive than even I suspected.

    I haven't changed my position.
    Yes, we all now know that you approve of abortion in certain circumstances - the ordinary position of the majority. Welcome to the pro-choice club.

    Gruesome and grizzly details? You just, as the famous line goes, can't handle the truth. That is exactly what happens in a D&E abortion. Contradict it if you can.
    Good Lord! Why would I contradict it? What, in God's name, is your point?

    You are so hesitant to answer questions, it's hard to know where you stand.
    Anyone reading these posts and all I've ever made here has not a single solitary problem understanding where I'm coming from. Except you, or course, But that's more a matter of your refusal to see.

    But you can solve that problem now. What is your standard of when life begins?

    Note to readers. You can be certain that question will not be answered.
    Note to readers. There's no point in answering it for Jl since he's now self-identified as pro-choice. Anyone else interested may ask me.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #46

    Sep 18, 2021, 01:23 PM
    Post #21 was a description of a 19-week fetus. What is your question?

    My point was how tiny and incomplete a 19-week-old fetus is.
    So now the truth comes out. It WAS about size equating to worth. So you're OK with dismembering an unborn baby as long as it is not large enough to be considered important?
    The fetus was not viable at 19 weeks. The mother was 15. Had she been your daughter and the center of ribald humor and nastiness at school, what would you have suggested and how would you have handled her going through the entire pregnancy?
    I would not have told her to kill her baby. I would support her and remind her that she is carrying a precious, wonderful human being worthy of life and protection.

    Note to readers. You can be certain that question will not be answered.
    Right again! That's 3 for 3. You are altogether too predictable.

    Yes, we all now know that you approve of abortion in certain circumstances - the ordinary position of the majority. Welcome to the pro-choice club.
    To save the mother's life, yes. Only a die-hard abortion enthusiast like you would fail to see that. Thankfully, it is very rare.

    Good Lord! Why would I contradict it? What, in God's name, is your point?
    That second term abortions are, as you said, "grizzly" procedures. The baby is torn into pieces. Now you are evidently OK with that, and that is really my point. In failing to oppose it, you endorse it. Finally we have a position for Athos.

    . It's theatrics when your abortion stance is challenged, but self-defense when you approve abortion for yourself


    If you know for a fact that mother and baby are going to die, then you have no choice. But as I said, and it remains unanswered (as usual) by you, what about the other 99.99% pregnancies?

    Note to readers. There is practically zero chance that Athos will answer that question.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #47

    Sep 18, 2021, 01:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So now the truth comes out. It WAS about size equating to worth. So you're OK with dismembering an unborn baby as long as it is not large enough to be considered important?
    You certainly jump to conclusions. No, it had nothing to do with that at all. A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus. Tom didn't mention at least one other method used in abortions, in the first trimester and in the early part of the second trimester.
    I would not have told her to kill her baby. I would support her and remind her that she is carrying a precious, wonderful human being worthy of life and protection.
    And regarding all the nastiness and dissing she got at school -- how is she to handle that? And once the baby has been born, then what?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #48

    Sep 18, 2021, 01:40 PM
    You certainly jump to conclusions. No, it had nothing to do with that at all. A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus. Tom didn't mention at least one other method used in abortions, in the first trimester and in the early part of the second trimester.
    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Predictably, you have no support for your statement. Tell us about that abortion technique in the second term which does not involve suction or a D&E. Your statement is just silly. I gave you a link to a med college, for crying out loud. You know more than them?

    And regarding all the nastiness and dissing she got at school -- how is she to handle that? And once the baby has been born, then what?
    You do realize that parents handle these situations every day, don't you? It's not pleasant or easy, but it's about a million times better than your solution of having the baby killed. And ten years later, she will be glad she did the difficult but right thing. That's how life goes.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #49

    Sep 18, 2021, 02:04 PM
    Did you read this comment by the young lady?

    I should be happy, living my life like I wanted to but I can't anymore. I'm so depressed and only have my boyfriend left. My friends have all left me, some are even saying that I made the whole pregnancy up. I mean seriously, how disgusting of them right?
    How'd that work out for that poor girl? What a sad outcome.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #50

    Sep 18, 2021, 02:18 PM
    Interesting quote.
    Alan Guttmacher of Planned Parenthood did more to promote and spread abortion on demand throughout the world than any other individual. Nearly fifty years ago, he commented, “Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life.”
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #51

    Sep 18, 2021, 03:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Predictably, you have no support for your statement. Tell us about that abortion technique in the second term which does not involve suction or a D&E. Your statement is just silly. I gave you a link to a med college, for crying out loud. You know more than them?
    mifepristone and misoprostol
    You do realize that parents handle these situations every day, don't you? It's not pleasant or easy, but it's about a million times better than your solution of having the baby killed. And ten years later, she will be glad she did the difficult but right thing. That's how life goes.
    I haven't said she should kill the fetus. How would you handle it if your daughter got pregnant? What would happen to the newborn?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #52

    Sep 18, 2021, 06:42 PM
    This is why I weep when I read your replies:
    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
    Predictably, you have no support for your statement.
    Your statement is just silly.
    I gave you a link to a med college, for crying out loud.
    You know more than them?


    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #53

    Sep 18, 2021, 07:07 PM
    mifepristone and misoprostol
    Are not used in the second trimester. They are not used at all after 10 weeks, and I've never heard of misoprostol being an abortifacient. Perhaps so, but I've never heard of it.

    Your statement was simply wrong. " A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus." And I did give you a link to a med school description of abortions. Perhaps you did not read it? I know I overreact at times, but it gets very old trying to help someone understand the issues involved who, quite frankly, does not seem to want to understand. Help me see the error of my ways if that's wrong.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #54

    Sep 18, 2021, 07:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Help me see the error of my ways if that's wrong.
    No, it's not worth it. This is why:

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
    Predictably, you have no support for your statement.
    Your statement is just silly.
    I gave you a link to a med college, for crying out loud.
    You know more than them?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #55

    Sep 18, 2021, 07:23 PM
    Very well. The fact remains that this is a completely wrong statement. " A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus."
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #56

    Sep 18, 2021, 07:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Very well.
    Those were sentences you said to me -- in one post.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The fact remains that this is a completely wrong statement. " A fetus that size does not have to be ripped or suctioned out of a uterus."
    Not true. Mifepristone and misoprostol can be used.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #57

    Sep 18, 2021, 08:23 PM
    Not after ten weeks. The baby you were referring to was 19 weeks. Do your homework BEFORE you post. Even your own link that you posted told you that. "We went to see my GP who claimed I was 16 weeks pregnant and referred me to the hospital abortion ward. At this point me and my ex had started talking again but it was wrong for me to bring up the abortion to him as it was obvious he had already assumed I'd had it. So I kept it to myself."

    I really think that if you had any real interest in the truth, you would never have posted your plainly incorrect statement which you could have found out about yourself in all of ten minutes. Ru 486 is not cleared for use after ten weeks.

    Mifeprex (mifepristone) Information | FDA

    But does it really make you feel better to have found a non-violent means of abortion? Isn't the baby's life still destroyed? That really solves the problem for you?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #58

    Sep 18, 2021, 08:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Do your homework BEFORE you post. Even your own link that you posted told you that.

    I really think that if you had any real interest in the truth, you would never have posted your plainly incorrect statement which you could have found out about yourself in all of ten minutes.

    But does it really make you feel better to have found a non-violent means of abortion?
    It worked! I opened the door and you came charging through, blasting me with your usual nastiness, just as I knew you would!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,107, Reputation: 155
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    #59

    Sep 18, 2021, 08:45 PM
    The only door you have opened is the door of ignorance. It's hopeless. The truth does not interest you. You posted a comment that was plainly wrong. You are so intent on defending the ability of doctors to kill these unborn babies that it all just becomes funny to you. Very sad. I guarantee you that you did not have the courage to watch the five minute youtube video I linked earlier. It might have disturbed your delightful ignorance.

    This girl's plight doesn't bother you at all, does it? It's all just part of your big joke. "I should be happy, living my life like I wanted to but I can't anymore. I'm so depressed and only have my boyfriend left. My friends have all left me, some are even saying that I made the whole pregnancy up. I mean seriously, how disgusting of them right?" Sorry to say it, but this girl's mistake was in listening to people who have no interest in the truth. You seem to be one of them.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,594, Reputation: 5430
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    #60

    Sep 18, 2021, 08:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    This girl's mistake was in listening to people like you who have no interest in learning what really happens during abortions.
    Sorry, Charlie. I interned at Catholic Charities for nine months. I know exactly what happens during abortions. Oh, and I've been pregnant myself. And have never said here I'm on board for abortion.

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