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Athos · May 29, 2018, 10:47 AM

The Trump administration did its usual pack of lies, but never so evil as this revealed today.

Trump's people counted the dead in Puerto Rico from the hurricane at 64. 64!

The Harvard Medical Public Health Organization estimated FOUR THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY FIVE DEAD. The number, published in the New England Journal of Medicine Tuesday, has been confirmed by other organizations. The number is expected to increase as the investigation continues.

That's 4,645+ instead of 64!!!

Colludin' Donald lies about his collusion with Russia, the size of his inauguration crowd, explains that Clinton received 3 million more votes than he did because of "illegal aliens", and on and on and on. But this one is extreme even for Colludin' Donald. To miss the death count by thousands requires some extraordinary capacity for evil to stare directly into a camera and lie so easily.

tomder55 · May 29, 2018, 10:57 AM

The official estimate was made by the Puerto Rico Dept of Public Safety ;not the Trump adm.

Athos · May 29, 2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

The official estimate was made by the Puerto Rico Dept of Public Safety ;not the Trump adm.

New York Rep. Nydia Velazquez slammed Trump's October remarks, asking whether the thousands of death now constitute as a "real catastrophe."

"By undercounting the fatalities, the true impact of Maria was concealed. By obscuring this, many were left to believe the Trump Administration's mythology that Puerto Rico was not hit hard by Maria," she said in a follow-up statement. "Now, that we are seeing further evidence of what many of us have long maintained - that Maria was an epic disaster"

You're playing semantics. No one is in doubt what the Trump Administration believes re the death toll in Puerto Rico.

talaniman · May 29, 2018, 12:47 PM

The whole response from their fellow American to the PR disaster was/is a shameful disaster in of itself and just another example that MAGA was a big fat lie from a big fat liar.

No surprise there.

tomder55 · May 29, 2018, 01:45 PM

Puerto Rico political power is in the Democratic left. They undercounted . You are playing semantics with the truth . The response was and is inadequate .But you padded your case with a distortion .

64 people were killed directly by the storm, but another 4000+ died as a result of the collapse of infrastructure in the wake of the storm. The catastrophe occurred before the storm hit and again you should question who really is responsible for that knowing that the island is in the cross hairs of almost every tropical storm .

paraclete · May 29, 2018, 03:49 PM

So let me get this straight; Trump is responsible for the destruction of a tropical cyclone. His magnificence could have changed the situation with a wave of his hand. What he is guilty of is not recognising that there is a crisis, which if it happened further north, would have had resources thrown at it.

Puerto Rico

needs to decide where it actually stands, fence sitting can not work out for you sometimes.

Wondergirl · May 29, 2018, 04:21 PM

64 people were killed directly by the storm, but another 4000+ died as a result of the collapse of infrastructure in the wake of the storm.

So the dead 4000+ are not victims of Maria???

tomder55 · May 29, 2018, 05:16 PM

Clete ,correct .It is well past the time for the island to make a choice....statehood or independence . As for the rest . The left is trying to make this Trump's Katrina . The facts ,thousands of cargo ships went to San Juan alone with supplies only to sit there in port waiting their turn to off load . The supplies rotted while local drivers could not get to the ports . Teamsters plead with stateside drivers to take up the slack .FEMA allocated sufficient funding and the US military participated where they could in clearing roads .

The USS Kearsarge Amphibious Ready Group alone delivered 44,000 pounds of supplies and conducted 144 airlifts.

Getting emergency aid to where it is needed is tough enough .Getting it to an island who's infrastructure to receive it was destroyed is doubly difficult .

In a large event like a hurricane, there are never enough EMTs, police, firefighters, and medical personnel in a place, and it’s impossible to bring them in immediately.

The efforts of local first responders is critical in a crisis . The Cajun Navy jumped right in to take the lead in the response in the Bayou after Harvey .Where was the local effort in Puerto Rico? Like the citizens of New Orleans ,they had been conditioned by the Democrat nanny-state to sit back and wait for the government to do the work while San Juan mayor Carmen Cruz finger pointed and took no blame for the poor local response . PR has had storms that took out electricity before . Where was the plan of action for the next strorm ? If the death toll is where Harvard's "study" says it is ,it was because when it counted ,the local Puerto Rican government failed the people .

WG ,I believe I just answered your question.

paraclete · May 29, 2018, 05:58 PM

Tom disaster relief is problematic at any time and in the third world always disastrous. That PR should be third world is a disgrace, it has been a US dependency for more than a century and should be as highly developed as say Tiawan

tomder55 · May 29, 2018, 06:12 PM

They choose their course. They have had a number of referendum votes with 3 options ;status quo territory ;statehood ,or independence. I would make the referendum a two option vote removing status quo. I don't care either way how the vote would turn out ;but the status quo is no longer acceptable.

paraclete · May 30, 2018, 06:19 AM

That is total abdication, Tom, what did those people know to guide them in a decision? Many migrated to the US

talaniman · May 30, 2018, 07:08 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ump/731091001/

Puerto Rico gov submits $25B budget amid deal with board | Miami Herald

However, Rossello said federal funds cannot be the only solution to Puerto Rico's economic problems, saying that statehood is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto...,_2017#Results

Governor

Ricardo Rosselló

was strongly in favor of statehood to help develop the economy and help to "solve our 500-year-old colonial dilemma ... Colonialism is not an option .... It’s a civil rights issue ... 3.5 million citizens seeking an absolute democracy," he told the news media.

^[19]

Benefits of statehood include an additional $10 billion per year in federal funds, the right to vote in presidential elections, higher Social Security and Medicare benefits, and a right for its government agencies and municipalities to file for bankruptcy. The latter is currently prohibited.

^[1]

Despite the logistical nightmare of being an island, being a state would certainly help. I mean they can do no worse than Mississippi or a few other states for that matter.

I'm not buying the distinction between died in the storm, or died in the aftermath because dead is dead, because of the storm. The response was/is lousy, and the plan before (WHAT PLAN) was just as lousy. I'll just say that humans screwed it all up. NOW WHAT!

Mother Nature can reek havoc on human plans or lack thereof, just ask the folks in New Orleans, Houston, NY, NJ, or Elliot. Probably couldn't afford STORM insurance.

tomder55 · May 30, 2018, 09:50 AM

I have no problem with statehood. I have no problem with independence . I have a huge problem with territory status. Yes status quo is abdication of responsibility . Clete ,like it or not the correct course is to allow the people to determine their status. I don't particularly care about their level of education .That doesn't stop people in this country from going to the polls to make their preference known.

Tal as far a I can tell ,the plan was to sit back and wait for Uncle Sam to save the bacon. That was irresponsible by the island leadership . The time to worry about it was before ;especially since the island has been in the path of many tropical storms.

paraclete · May 30, 2018, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I have no problem with statehood. I have no problem with independence . I have a huge problem with territory status. Yes status quo is abdication of responsibility . Clete ,like it or not the correct course is to allow the people to determine their status. I don't particularly care about their level of education .That doesn't stop people in this country from going to the polls to make their preference known.

Tal as far a I can tell ,the plan was to sit back and wait for Uncle Sam to save the bacon. That was irresponsible by the island leadership . The time to worry about it was before ;especially since the island has been in the path of many tropical storms.

I think the abdication of responsibility rests with Washington, not with the locals who have limited resources and power. That island should be an economic powerhouse benefiting from its association with the US, but they have been given no incentive for statehood, just left to be a backwater

tomder55 · May 30, 2018, 04:41 PM

clearly you have no clue . They have every opportunity to take advantage of their status . What they are not entitled to is endless bailouts from big daddy to cover for their internal corruption and incompetence .Years of progressive leadership has brought them to where they are today .

paraclete · May 30, 2018, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

clearly you have no clue . They have every opportunity to take advantage of their status . What they are not entitled to is endless bailouts from big daddy to cover for their internal corruption and incompetence .Years of progressive leadership has brought them to where they are today .

That leadership doesn't appear to have been very progressive, you mean liberal

tomder55 · May 31, 2018, 10:21 AM

I believe in the classical liberalism and do not like that lefties have high jacked the word .

Wondergirl · May 31, 2018, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I believe in the classical liberalism and do not like that lefties have high jacked the word .

Just like fundies have hijacked the term "evangelicals." Fundies AREN'T traditional evangelicals. They have made that word a joke.

talaniman · May 31, 2018, 11:19 AM

PR has never been a high priority in DC. They have never recovered from the meltdown, and that made a bad situation worse. I'm not saying PR bears no responsibility, but the options are severely limited. Even some of our states have fared far worse with their own recovery. They have plenty of incentives for statehood, amongst the better informed. PR can restructure and get some debt relief.

Forget the semantic label acrobatics because a progressive like myself, can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative, and be neither an fundamentalist or atheist. Labels are not, and never been, nor will be, as accurate as facts, though they are open to interpretations depending on perspective and perception.

paraclete · May 31, 2018, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Just like fundies have hijacked the term "evangelicals." Fundies AREN'T traditional evangelicals. They have made that word a joke.

As a "fundie" I've never been really sure what "evangelical" means. You can't couple the word traditional with evangelical, that word belongs to institutional religion