Rural living has its benefits... and its drawbacks. Hope you feel fine for a good lond while.

To Skell;

You need to get out more if you think people in Canada or the UK are any less free than you.

Have you ever been outside the U


I have been to Canada. That's all. I read a lot!
:-()

That quote was funny when Mark Twain's emmissary did a reading on TV years ago.

Don't try to guess the type of person I am

NK,

Do you even realize the pattern you are following?

When I say that the Canadian health system has many problems, you deny it. When you hear from Canadians who say that the Canadian health system has problems (Like Earl237 in post number 207) you ignore them. When others tell you what Canadian health professionals have told them, you tell them that you personal experience is different from theirs. When someone cites a news article on the issue, you say that the newspaper itself is either biased or is giving information out of context.

You just can't admit that there are people other than you who have major issues with the Canadian system. YOU are not the only person in Canada, and others have a very different experience than you do.

As a point of interest, people between the ages of 7 and 50 generally don't see the difference in care between a nationalized health care system and a private system. That's because unless they are particularly unlucky genetically, prone to accidents or are unlucky enough to catch a really bad disease, they don't spend all that much time dealing with doctors. UNDER 7 and OVER 50, you spend much more time dealing with doctors. The children, of course, don't know the difference, it's their parents who have to deal with it. It's the folks who are over 50 who tend to have more experience with the medical profession.

I don't know how old you are, NK. But I suspect that you are not yet 40. Nor are you chronically ill. So the fact is that you don't really have enough direct experience to know just how bad your country's medical system is. That is why your personal experience differs so widely from the statistical information coming out of the Canadian government. Simply put, you don't HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE dealing with medicine in Canada... or anywhere else. You are a young, healthy person with little need for doctors as part of your day-to-day life. You have admitted as much yourself elsewhere in our conversations. You have told me yourself that you haven't had that much experience dealing with medical issues.

Good for you. I hope that trend continues.

Not so good for those who are older than you or not as lucky as you are, and have to spend more time dealing with doctors. People who DO have more experience than you do in dealing with the Canadian health system have much less faith in it than you do.

BTW, I heard a story just yesterday from a woman currently living in the USA, but who grew up in Canada. She was talking about her sister, still in Canada, who just found out she's pregnant. Her OB-GYN appointment was set for 10 months from now.

Read that again.

Her preganancy OB-GYN appointment is set for 10 months from now... a month after the baby is due.

Now, I'm sure that this mistake will be easily fixed. Probably just a phone call to the doctor's office or the local medical administration office will take care of it. I'm sure that even the bureaucrats in Canada can figure out that this makes no sense, and will do everything they can to fix this error. They'll get her into her doctor's office in a reasonable amount of time.

But if there weren't queues in the first place being set up by bureaucrats, this error would never have happened at all. If people didn't need to get permission from someone else to see their doctor this never would have happened in the first place.

Something like this happening one time is comical, worthy of a good laugh. But when such errors become systemic, it becomes a waste of time and money and slows the entire medical system even more. It reduces the amount of time that medical administrators have to actually deal with supplying health care. Every minute, every dollar spent on fixing little humorous errors like this one is a minute and a dollar not being spent taking care of people.

And THAT is one of the basic, fundamental problems with government-run nationalized health care.

Private companies make mistakes too. But every mistake comes out of their bottom line, so managers work very hard to minimize mistakes. In government-run systems, there is no bottom line to worry about, so efficiency isn't an issue for them. And mistakes continue to happen because there is no incentive to minimize them.

Any government-run system has this basic flaw. That is why government-run systems tend to lose money quickly... like Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and even the Postal System in the USA. They are all inefficient, and therefore they are money losers and end up providing poor services. Not because they are bad people, but because the system itself is flawed by its very nature. It cannot be efficient if it is run by the government.

Elliot

Hello again, El:

Does the government RUN highway paving? Or does the government just pay for private contractors to do it?

Our system isn't going to be run by the government... You're spiffing...

excon

Hi elliot,

- No, no system is perfect but you are trying to paint us as something we are not.
- yes I'm over 40
- my parents are both over 70, no issues with them getting healthcare.. ever
- This board being on the web reaches an international audience yet the medical questions being asked on the health boards are overwhemnigly by americans, canadians would simply go see their doctor.
Also you want to paint me as *lucky* guy in my system. Other than earl (who seems to be canadian or american depending on the day) you seem to hear positives from us yet you try very hard to convince us that we should be unhappy with our system - you are one very negative person.

We have lotteries for doctor visits? By the way, I'm still waiting for your response to the latest Canadian survey.

I was referring to the US rationing resources in rural areas which is what was happening in Gander.

About the survey - everyone should have a look at it, it doesn't reflect very badly on our system at all. Yes we have some work to do in some areas but canadians are generally satisfied. Of course the answers to the privatized healthcare questions came with no financial strings attached so the answers aren't reflective of how it would affect all families at different income levels.

Then how do you explain the statistics that Speechless cited? If you are the common experience, how do you explain that over 50% of your country's population wants to see a change to a more privatized system?

Elliot

Read my reply before you post.

Hello again, El:

Surprise, surprise... You think we should swallow your crap because it came from YOU?? Dude! Life don't happen that way.

I don't know why you think YOUR statistics are golden, and ours are ka ka. Why do you think right wing websites speak the truth, but all others lie?? You HAVE drunk the koolaid. That's the only explanation... But, of course, we KNEW that.

excon

Actually excon check out the survey speech linked to, it isn't too damning at all.

It's also not as rosy as you make it sound.

Ok.

Hello Need:

It looks like the surveyor designed the survey to come up with answers the surveyor wanted. That's why I don't believe it.

excon

Everyone is way off subject here.

The main question in the OP has to do with HOW Obama is going about to get his way.

It is clear that he wants to force changes through without regard to Constitution or reasoned debate.

I did. And that is why I posted this:

In other words, you never responded to the poll numbers. You just denied them as if they didn't exist.

So I again ask, if yours is the common experience of most Canadians, how do you respond to those statistics?

Elliot

Ex, it wasn't a Fox News poll, it was THE health care survey in Canada.

The ones from Steve survey link that say that the majority of Canadians:
a) agree that they are getting quality health care
b) that 93% agree that it is the responsibility of every Canadian to take care of their own health through prevention of illnesses and injuries, and by leading a healthy lifestyle. (personal responsibility - we must all be conservatives, oh my!! )
c) did not need to use personal savings to care for a family friend
d) did not experience any adverse effects or events as a result of care received in Canada’s health care system

Steve didn't show those because he did not want to.

Isn't that put out by the Canadian government?

Would the Canadian government deliberately create survey questions that make its own program look bad?

Is that the argument you are trying to make excon? That the Canadian government put out a survey that is designed to trash the Canadian Government's own health care system?

Hello again, El:

Nope, Steve did his own selective reporting to skew the results. S'ok. Need pointed it out.

But, I can tell when I'm handed a pile of crap, even if it's described as kosher sandwich.

excon