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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #21

    Oct 12, 2018, 03:19 AM
    Flynn
    Gates
    Manafort
    Papadopoulos
    Cohen
    Now which of those guys have been accused of collusion with the Russians? Answer of course is none. In the meantime it is a certainty that CNN colluded with the Clinton campaign to try and get her elected, but I suppose that is of no consequence.

    Is it possible that the Trump campaign received information from Russians that proved to be useful in the campaign? I imagine that is quite possible, just like the Clinton campaign likely did the same thing, and if not with Russians, then with other foreign individuals. If you believe these things don't happen, then you need to re-read the old classic Polly Anna Runs for President. So far as I am aware, it is not illegal to do any of that.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,234, Reputation: 10853
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    #22

    Oct 12, 2018, 09:24 AM
    Well maybe this will explain the mess, and save me a lot of typing, and while I am aware of the allegations against Hillary and the dems by the dufus sycophants and hold your nosers, I figure, at least hope Mueller will thoroughly investigate the role that everybody played in the Russian election interference case.

    So far we just have Russians and dufus campaign workers, and though they have not been charged with anything other than lying to investigators, except Manafort who has numerous convictions in one of his trials for criminal activities, they all are cooperating with Mueller. Too soon to say who knew what and did what, as the investigation continues.

    Just the other day they got some young guy from California for selling stolen bank account numbers and a few of his buyers were Russians funneling money to fund operations here in the US. He pleaded guilty and is cooperating with law enforcement. I'm just going to say since it's ongoing we will see what happens next... and to whom.

    I'm satisfied to let the investigation, and the process of law take it's course and go wherever are you?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #23

    Oct 12, 2018, 09:46 AM
    I'm satisfied to let the investigation, and the process of law take it's course and go wherever are you?
    I absolutely am, and I'm glad to hear that you are as well. Remember, I'm the one who actually believes in following the trail of evidence.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,234, Reputation: 10853
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    #24

    Oct 12, 2018, 09:58 AM
    To be clear, evidence has to be submitted in a court of law, until then it's just a lead to follow and verify. Is that also your understanding?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #25

    Oct 12, 2018, 01:58 PM
    Just a lead to follow? No, evidence is what we look at when we are trying to establish the truth. It doesn't matter if it's a court of law or the court of public opinion. If a person is genuinely interested in the truth, then he/she will look first at the evidence.

    Just a lead to follow? No, evidence is what we look at when we are trying to establish the truth. It doesn't matter if it's a court of law or the court of public opinion. If a person is genuinely interested in the truth, then he/she will look first at the evidence.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #26

    Oct 12, 2018, 02:43 PM
    The big mistake was to use the atomic bomb,
    seriously ? The biggest growth industry in the US at the end of the war was the production of body bags in anticipation of the invasion of the Japanese islands . Okinawa showed us the price that would be paid in US casualties. Never 2nd guess the use of nukes. It was the right call.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #27

    Oct 12, 2018, 03:13 PM
    It was the right call.
    Yep. It's always easy to second guess when it's not your rear end on the line.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #28

    Oct 12, 2018, 03:47 PM
    Hello tom:

    Well then, I feel better..

    excon
    thank me

    What a pity it is difficult to be guilty of treason these days, in earlier times it was much easier
    yeah these days you have to provide evidence . Maybe we should just throw Trump in a lake and see if he floats .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #29

    Oct 12, 2018, 04:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    thank me

    yeah these days you have to provide evidence . Maybe we should just throw Trump in a lake and see if he floats .
    What a brilliant idea but don't throw Hilliary in, you know she would sink, right?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,234, Reputation: 10853
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    #30

    Oct 12, 2018, 05:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Just a lead to follow? No, evidence is what we look at when we are trying to establish the truth. It doesn't matter if it's a court of law or the court of public opinion. If a person is genuinely interested in the truth, then he/she will look first at the evidence.

    Just a lead to follow? No, evidence is what we look at when we are trying to establish the truth. It doesn't matter if it's a court of law or the court of public opinion. If a person is genuinely interested in the truth, then he/she will look first at the evidence.
    Think there is enough evidence to accuse the Saudis of murdering a journalist?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #31

    Oct 13, 2018, 08:46 AM
    Hello:

    You'd think I wouldn't have to explain what an investigation is to the law and order party.. But things is up side down.. We investigate to find the truth.. We don't have truth and then investigate.. Clearly, an investigation in progress, is an investigation that hasn't yet determined the truth..

    Now, it's also true that in the course of investigating, other law breakers might turn up. Should they look the other way??

    Dude!

    When it's over, we'll know the truth.. That is unless Trump convinces people that the deep state Democrats, the FBI and the Justice Department are ENEMY'S.


    excon
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #32

    Oct 13, 2018, 11:28 AM
    Perhaps you should explain that to all of the folks who had Kavanaugh guilty as charged when the evidence made that conclusion ridiculous.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,910, Reputation: 5430
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    #33

    Oct 13, 2018, 01:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Perhaps you should explain that to all of the folks who had Kavanaugh guilty as charged when the evidence made that conclusion ridiculous.
    There was no follow-up investigation by the naysayers. "We say it didn't happen, so Kavanaugh is not guilty."
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #34

    Oct 13, 2018, 04:12 PM
    No doubt just look at previous presidents when they start, and when they leave... they all have shown considerable aging after only 4 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    There was no follow-up investigation by the naysayers. "We say it didn't happen, so Kavanaugh is not guilty."
    There is this pesky legal standard in the USA... called Innocent UNTIL proven guilty. Nobody ever HAS to prove they are innocent, but the ACCUSERS, ALWAYS have to prove you did it. They couldn't find a single witness to back up the delusional claims Ford made for pay. And there is no doubt she was paid to do it. He wasn't the first.. its been a regular Democrat Tactic for a number of elections so far. They did it to Herman Caine too. Then crawled back under their respective rocks never to be heard from again.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,910, Reputation: 5430
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    #35

    Oct 13, 2018, 04:25 PM
    There is this pesky legal standard in the USA... called Innocent UNTIL proven guilty. Nobody ever HAS to prove they are innocent, but the ACCUSERS, ALWAYS have to prove you did it.
    No one proved Kavanaugh guilty because there was no investigation -- nor was there time made to investigate. (I've been a Republican since I registered to vote at age 21.)
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 509, Reputation: 55
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    #36

    Oct 13, 2018, 07:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    There was no follow-up investigation by the naysayers. "We say it didn't happen, so Kavanaugh is not guilty."

    Precisely!! It was not a question of guilt or innocence. It was a question of a proper investigation which the Republicans sabotaged by the WH refusal to allow the FBI to do their full and complete investigation.

    I'm always amazed at how the right-wing simply ignores this crucial point and blames the opposition for dishonest dealing when it is the Republicans themselves who are guilty of dishonest dealing.

    The "evidence" of 40+ witnesses was not allowed to see the light of day. HEIL, boys!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #37

    Oct 14, 2018, 05:45 AM
    The "evidence" of 40+ witnesses was not allowed to see the light of day. HEIL, boys
    Forty witnesses? OK, list them. Tell us who they are, and especially note those who have anything even approaching first hand testimony of the alleged incident. (Hint, that would be zero.) Make sure you list the name of the witness who would have driven CBF home.

    Time for this insanity to stop. First the liberals, in their desperate attempt to keep a Supreme Court that will subvert the democratic process by finding unlisted and unsupported "rights" in the Constitution, bring up a ridiculous charge against BK that has no supporting evidence whatsoever, and then complain when the FBI's investigation reveals zero substantiation. Dr. Ford's own witnesses did not support her. It is complete and stupid nonsense. It makes me glad beyond belief not to be a part of this political clown show. It only serves to illustrate everything that is sick and ignorant in American politics.

    Here's what the three witnesses named by Dr. Ford had to say. If you have forty more like these, then we'll be able to nominate BK for saint.

    (1)Simply put, “Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford.”


    “I have no memory of this alleged incident,” said (2) Mark Judge in a September 18 letter sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee. He said he did not recall the party and never saw Brett Kavanaugh act in the matter Ford describes.


    (3) Patrick J. Smyth issued a statement: “I understand that I have been identified by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford as the person she remembers as ‘PJ’ who supposedly was present at the party she described in her statements to the Washington Post. I am issuing this statement today to make it clear to all involved that I have no knowledge of the party in question; nor do I have any knowledge of the allegations of improper conduct she has leveled against Brett Kavanaugh.

    Personally speaking, I have known Brett Kavanaugh since high school and I know him to be a person of great integrity, a great friend, and I have never witnessed any improper conduct by Brett Kavanaugh towards women. To safeguard my own privacy and anonymity, I respectfully request that the Committee accept this statement in response to any inquiry the Committee may have.”
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,234, Reputation: 10853
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    #38

    Oct 14, 2018, 06:28 AM
    Due diligence requires you take EVERYBODYS statement, and you sure left a bunch of people out. They have come forward and are public, yet have not been questioned. That sounds half a$$ed to me no matter how you cut it, but probably better for repubs to get what they want. It worked, which is typical of the whole dufus presidency and it's no wonder you have to hold your nose to vote for him and keep holding it after two years of the dufus.

    Trust me my friend you are going to have one sore nose by 2020 if it's not hurting like heck now, or some really NUMB fingers frozen on your face. You probably want Mueller to go away too. Now that's what a REAL investigation looks like! Too bad all you want is the right to refuse baking a cake for gay weddings or outlaw abortions for poor women, or make the institute of marriage controlled exclusively by the clergy.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,323, Reputation: 154
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    #39

    Oct 14, 2018, 07:25 AM
    Due diligence requires you take EVERYBODYS statement, and you sure left a bunch of people out.
    Name the ones that have any knowledge whatsoever of the alleged incident. Name them. List them. If they can even say, "I was across the street at the time," or "I came by and worked on the phone." Anyone at all who has any first hand knowledge of this party and has come forward in willingness to testify. Name them. Anyone! If you can't, and you can't, then why do you continue this charade? Once again, it is all a political circus, and a vain effort to maintain political control of the Supreme Court. Liberals don't care one ounce about Dr. Ford, and certainly have no interest in justice. They just want to maintain their grip on the SCOTUS. It is an embarrassment for the entire liberal community, and the real tragedy is that they have become so power hungry that they evidently can't even see it.

    One thing I have noticed about some of you guys. You love generalities, but you're short on specifics. Name them! Who are the forty? Who is even one?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #40

    Oct 14, 2018, 08:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Perhaps you should explain that to all of the folks who had Kavanaugh guilty as charged when the evidence made that conclusion ridiculous.
    Hello j:

    Couple things.. Direct testimony under oath IS evidence. And, it seemed that Republicans BELIEVED her. Of course, that put the Kavanaugh appointment in jeopardy, so the talking points shifted dramatically.. I see you picked 'em up. The ONLY way the previously believable testimony can be obliterated is to demonize ALL the women who're VICTIMS and taking to the streets.. And, they did. They're called an ANGRY mob. They're accused of being PAID.. They're called TOXIC.

    Trump WON.. But, at what cost? The nation is FURTHER divided.. Trump thinks that works for him. Let's hope not.

    excon

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