well I can only speak for myself, change can be produced though one on one ministry and that is the path, you change one individual at a time, beyond that it takes someone with more power than I have

I think we are saying the same thing. When you are nice to people you will not harm them, abuse them, rob them etc. I believe others will see it and maybe start doing the same. I believe bigger change I can have a part in by my protesting voting and discussing issues. I know of changes I have helped to make in the world and can say for me this works

I see no point in shouting in the streets, it encourages violence

Being nice is one thing... but capitulating and appeasing are something totally different. There are some people that actually think they are all part of the same thing.

ANY appeasement and ANY capitulation with that group does harm... because nothing they want is positive to anyone who believe in human rights and personal liberty. Sharia denies people civil liberties AND human rights. And many places where they have flocked into groups large enough... they start demanding to Impose Sharia... and its not just Canada, they have been doing that here too.

With that community its ALWAYS...give them an inch and they try to take a foot...Give them a foot and they try to take a mile....then its a matter of time before Synagogs and Churches start being bombed and burned.

If they want to do things their way....they are invited to return where they came from. This part of the World isn't Muslim...and we don't appreciate Muslim traditions and laws being rammed down out throats. And I do know quite a few don't do that....I trust NONE who wear a scarf....and I trust none who wear burquas.

And yes, I know quite a few Muslims , some of them good friends...none of them wear any of that stuff....and they have said nowhere is it written they need to. We are talking people born in Afghanistan, Iran, and a couple other countries. All of whom immigrated here, and have tried to fit in...

I was jsut at a College Graduation party of the son of one of my Afghan friends last weekend....I've known him since he was born....50 people at the party, most Afghan except for a couple of Iranians....ONE woman wore a head scarf.....and she was undergoing chemo and radiation therapy for cancer...none wore a burqa, all I believe were Muslims, a few I haven't met before...but many I met years ago, me and my wife were the only people there NOT from that part of the world.

Just so its clear.....I don't hate muslims for being muslims.....I hate the muslims that behave in a certain manner. Just as I have no use for certain people of any ethnicity that behave in certain manners.

I agree with smoothy, Islam must not be appeased, they have no intention in making any concessions to our culture. Islam must be confronted and forced back into the sixth century enclave it wants to create. My reasons for saying it is it is barbaric and completely out of tune with modern thinking, Muthutmad thought it was alright to spread religion by conquest, to cohabit with minors and kill your opposition and I don't think any of this has changed, these are people who would still practice slavery today if we let them get away with it

I also refuse to travel to, or even through any country that allows or imposes Sharia on the population. And I'm one of those people who will never submit to it to my dying breath (yes I would be one of the many people that would get militant about it if it was ever attempted)... no matter WHERE I may be. I go as far as refusing to buy any products from those places when and where possible. That includes clothing.

There are extremists in all groups of people that give the others a bad name. It is not just the Muslims.
I do not follow a religion due to issues with most of them and the extreme beliefs they have that don't give all people rights. Do I hate all Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. NO. I base my thoughts on you when I look at your character, morals, actions etc. Again though what harm does my philosophy cause? I am not hurting people. I am sure people that know me can attest I do not hide my head in the sand from issues in the real world.
One example of my niceness. We were in bed on Sunday when someone was pounding on our door. Our neighbor was yelling she was stabbed. I could have ignored it. I could have said I would call the cops and left her out there. I did neither. I let her in the house, got her a robe to cover up called 911. Got my dog in my brothers room and we brought her dog in and kenneled him. We kenneled the dogs so they cops would not shoot them if they barked (yes it happens a lot in North America). We kept the dog over night and this was the first time we met the dog. We gave our number to her in case she needed a ride home from the hospital. That is being nice. That is changing the world a little. Don't tell me everyone would do that as I read stories all the time how people ignore others in need.
Another way I have helped out is by running a yearly auction for a dog rescue in Brazil. I don't raise a lot but it helps. I also talk to people I meet about this rescue all the time. I am being nice and can attest my sharing is working as my sister in law is adopting one of the dogs. They now do international adoptions.
I am also helping out with the homeless in my city by donating backpacks filled with essentials to them. I unfortunately will not be handing them out as I have fears of the homeless (which I hate having as I know not all of them are mean people.
Sorry did not mean to ramble. I just wanted to let you know I am not just a pot smoking hippy with her head in the sand saying life is all about unicorns and rainbows... though that would be cool.

Many live under the rules of unscrupulous zealots, and do bad things in the name of whatever god. That's the history of the world and every religion. To pick the bad and apply it to the whole is no way to justify your own hate, which is in itself a form of zealotry, and its no surprise you spew it as easy as those who spew their own hate.

Funny how haters can ignore and appease the bad behavior of their own with no problem. Self righteous crap! Haters must hate themselves because they are no better than the ones they hate.

Just so its clear... I feel the same way about Jehovah Witnesses, Atheists... etc. I've never met a Bhudist thats tried to do anything either way (though I haven't knowingly met many of them).

I don't knock anyone over the head and drag them into a Church or preach to them... and I don't tollerate anyone trying to force me into their way of doing things, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. Most of the people I associate with... do none of those things either... I do get a chuckle of the Aetheist neighbors I have with more CHristmas decorations and stuff then even I have... we do get along pretty well however.

Not sure I understand your issue with them having more xmas decorations that you - jealous?

This isn't about hate and it isn't about religion, it is about an ideology, a world view that doesn't allow any compromise with anyone else, in fact they have become more militant in recent decades than they once were and this is because they discovered nationalism, which in their world view actually makes no sense since they are supposed to be part of the caliphate, a muslim utopia ruled by an absolute monarch.

There are many injustices in the world and we cannot cure them all however meritorious the attempt might be. Back in the day a similiar ideology created a world war and genocide and we all fought against it, but now we are expected to have the same thing imposed upon us. I say no, and I certainly say if you don't like the way things are here, go back where you came from, back to that hell hole you escaped from.

If we can do away with all religion that would be a start.

No Karma freedom of religion is a basic freedom, that is a freedom to believe but not a freedom to act out to the detriment of others, If we do away with religion we have to do away with athiests also because athiestic systems have also caused great harm. Any form of totalitaranism is undesirable and so we come to Islam, a form of totalitaranism with a veneer of a religion, but it is actually a system of being anti something

Where do you get that from?
Well that a logic fail. There no such thing as an " athiestic system".

Maybe China where the leaders are the "gods". Or Russia, where Putin fills that role. They preach and enforce the rules, like in Uganda, and Italy. They are all atheists, aren't they, who believe whatever in the words of man.

There is no difference, we just BELIEVE there is and make it up if it isn't enough difference to claim they are wrong and we are right. Its enough to fight over. That's all they wanted in the first place.

*They is all the "different" people.

What? They are dictators, it has nothing to do with a non-belief in a god. Dictators can be religious too.

God has nothing to do with governess. That's about power, influence, and wealth. Religion or not humans have their own ideas of good orderly direction, and how its applied to daily. Like minds may congregate, or may not, but its an individual choice. Not believe in the gods of another has nothing to do with personal conduct, and belief,or nonbelief is totally irrelevant to human interaction.

Its actions that are important, not beliefs, I mean who cares what you believe when what you do is more telling. Belief is no better than non belief and are the same sides of the coin until you start to think you are better because of it. An artificial difference at best. Just like all the other differences one can pick out amongst humans.

I think that's wrong - many guide their behaviours based on words found in a 200+ year old book. They gladly will quote it for you, ad nauseum.

Anyway I believe in acting locally. Just was switching between the Formula 1 race and the Giro, now I need to get and do stuff, maybe a 50 km ride with a few hills. Plus the kids want to have fun outdoors. Cheers!

which two hundred year old book is that karma, the Book of Mormom, we were discussing those who quote a fourteen hundred year old book, the Koran

Does it matter what book you quote or don't quote to justify hate? Its all the same and it's poison. What does YOUR book say?