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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #41

    Sep 30, 2008, 05:26 PM

    My my how that got turned around. When you see the Democrat presidential candidate doing his best impersonation of the Tracy character "Mumbles" what exactly do you think he's doing ? Being nuianced and contemplative ?

    Palin's biggest problem is that she became deferential to those morons Couric and Gibson. I would've been more up front and told them...

    "no ;I did not have time to take foreign junkets on the taxpayer's dime schmoozing with foreign dignitaries as Governor or Mayor . As a Governor I was too busy running my State!!! . I wasn't using the office as a stepping stone to my next elected position like the Democrat Presidential nominee.

    If I seem inexperienced in foreign policy then too bad . I expect McCain to serve his full term and in the meantime I know how to pick competent staff and advisors. I am a quick study and unlike the Presidential nominee I WILL have the luxury of on the job training (Joe Biden's words) .

    I can assure you that I know (unlike the nominee and his running mate on the Democrat ticket) what it means to make an executive decision .Obama and Biden have demonstrated that they are like their compatriots on the Hill ;unwilling to be involved in the decisions of the day. Obama has been phoning it in ;and Biden completely invisible and irrelevent . I show up for work every day .

    Now if you want to seriously discuss the issues of the day I'll continue . If you persist in trying to quizz me so you can find gottcha sound bites for Tina Fey ,I'm afraid I'm wasting my time here. There are thousands upon thousands of Americans every day who go to events to hear what I have to say. Too bad you can't take this as seriously as they do "
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #42

    Sep 30, 2008, 06:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Palin's biggest problem is that she became deferential to those morons Couric and Gibson. I would've been more up front and told them ....
    Yes, I'm sure you are way smarter than she is. But you weren't chosen as the Republican Vice-Presidential nominee. You're too smart and articulate to serve the purpose the Rovians had in mind. She's the Goldilocks candidate--hot, but not too hot; smart, but not too smart.
    BABRAM's Avatar
    BABRAM Posts: 561, Reputation: 145
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    #43

    Sep 30, 2008, 09:09 PM
    Katie Couric pitched Sarah Palin soft balls in the first interview. Couric gave a tootsie foot interview, nothing earth shattering, and subjects that Palin should have a clue about as a VP candidate. Heaven forbid if McCain were to become president, the country would only be one bad burrito away from "I love Lucy." Even worse the second interview had the puppet's master, "McCain" by her side. It was Tweedledee and Tweedledum as Palin looked at McCain several times as they both fumbled for excuses in an attempt to stay on the same page. But hey, Sarah's husband "Todd" is a professional snowmobile racer and there's an island belonging to Alaska off their coast that is occupied by maybe a hundred fifty people, perhaps a few sea lions and seals. Yes sirree! If they squint hard enough across the Bering Strait they can see the rock outline of territory that belongs to Russia. Whoopee! :rolleyes:
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #44

    Oct 1, 2008, 04:30 AM
    Wall Street and Washington were full of people who were “qualified and experienced” in the field of finance. Sen. Barack Obama, for one, has a great deal of experience in the housing field. So do many of his closest advisers. I would have traded some of that experience for a few more leaders with less experience and more courage to buck the establishment and tell the truth about what was happening.
    http://townhall.com/Columnists/FredT...9/30/qualified
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #45

    Oct 1, 2008, 04:35 AM
    Tom, from your link:
    When John McCain selected Governor Sarah Palin, as his running mate, the Democrats and their far-left constituency let out a primal scream that could be heard from sea to shining sea. How dare he choose someone that they and their pals in the media had not had a chance to vet (i.e. libel, slander, and otherwise and otherwise eviscerate). Ah, but it was not too late. These seekers of “a new kind of politics” poured torrents of malicious abuse upon her and her family.
    Isn't that what you guys did to Obama for months on end?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #46

    Oct 1, 2008, 04:52 AM

    I don't know who you guys are. I did not and I have defended him against unwarranted slander. Nor have I said a thing about his family that was not in the realm of politics. Yes I panned his wife's public statements because they were a matter of public record ;statements made on the campaign trail.

    I have tried to find out and fill in the gaps about some very important unanswered questions about his past.

    Obama still has not been vetted properly even though the press has had ample opportunity .
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #47

    Oct 1, 2008, 04:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Obama still has not been vetted properly even though the press has had ample opportunity .
    And that's exactly what's happening to Palin. So suck it up and enjoy the ride, you gte to see what Obama had to endure.

    By 'you guys' I meant the right-wing types here and whoever sends out those mass emails smearing Obama that people seem to receive a lot.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #48

    Oct 1, 2008, 05:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    And that's exactly what's happening to Palin. So suck it up and enjoy the ride, you gte to see what Obama had to endure.

    By 'you guys' I meant the right-wing types here and whoever sends out those mass emails smearing Obama that people seem to receive a lot.
    That makes at least two of us "you guys" that have defended Obama on these boards against those mass email slanders, so what's your next excuse?
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #49

    Oct 1, 2008, 10:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Also from Fred's piece about qualifications:
    However, it is a legitimate issue and should be taken seriously. I especially take seriously the criticism of people such as New York Times columnist David Brooks who I consider to be an insightful analyst of the political scene.
    Here's what Brooks said on the subject: David Brooks--Why Experience Matters
    Conservatism was once a frankly elitist movement. Conservatives stood against radical egalitarianism and the destruction of rigorous standards. They stood up for classical education, hard-earned knowledge, experience and prudence. Wisdom was acquired through immersion in the best that has been thought and said.

    But, especially in America, there has always been a separate, populist, strain. For those in this school, book knowledge is suspect but practical knowledge is respected. The city is corrupting and the universities are kindergartens for overeducated fools.

    The elitists favor sophistication, but the common-sense folk favor simplicity. The elitists favor deliberation, but the populists favor instinct.

    This populist tendency produced the term-limits movement based on the belief that time in government destroys character but contact with grass-roots America gives one grounding in real life. And now it has produced Sarah Palin.

    Palin is the ultimate small-town renegade rising from the frontier to do battle with the corrupt establishment. Her followers take pride in the way she has aroused fear, hatred and panic in the minds of the liberal elite. The feminists declare that she’s not a real woman because she doesn’t hew to their rigid categories. People who’ve never been in a Wal-Mart think she is parochial because she has never summered in Tuscany.

    Look at the condescension and snobbery oozing from elite quarters, her backers say. Look at the endless string of vicious, one-sided attacks in the news media. This is what elites produce. This is why regular people need to take control.

    And there’s a serious argument here. In the current Weekly Standard, Steven Hayward argues that the nation’s founders wanted uncertified citizens to hold the highest offices in the land. They did not believe in a separate class of professional executives. They wanted rough and rooted people like Palin.

    I would have more sympathy for this view if I hadn’t just lived through the last eight years. For if the Bush administration was anything, it was the anti-establishment attitude put into executive practice.

    And the problem with this attitude is that, especially in his first term, it made Bush inept at governance. It turns out that governance, the creation and execution of policy, is hard. It requires acquired skills. Most of all, it requires prudence.

    What is prudence? It is the ability to grasp the unique pattern of a specific situation. It is the ability to absorb the vast flow of information and still discern the essential current of events — the things that go together and the things that will never go together. It is the ability to engage in complex deliberations and feel which arguments have the most weight.

    How is prudence acquired? Through experience. The prudent leader possesses a repertoire of events, through personal involvement or the study of history, and can apply those models to current circumstances to judge what is important and what is not, who can be persuaded and who can’t, what has worked and what hasn’t.

    Experienced leaders can certainly blunder if their minds have rigidified (see: Rumsfeld, Donald), but the records of leaders without long experience and prudence is not good. As George Will pointed out, the founders used the word “experience” 91 times in the Federalist Papers. Democracy is not average people selecting average leaders. It is average people with the wisdom to select the best prepared.

    Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she’d be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness.

    The idea that “the people” will take on and destroy “the establishment” is a utopian fantasy that corrupted the left before it corrupted the right. Surely the response to the current crisis of authority is not to throw away standards of experience and prudence, but to select leaders who have those qualities but not the smug condescension that has so marked the reaction to the Palin nomination in the first place.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #50

    Oct 1, 2008, 10:41 AM

    Thompson's point is clear on this. Without term limits all we have in Washinton is swamp-rats with plenty of experience. Our economy is going down the toilet in no small part because of their experience at picking our pockets.
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #51

    Oct 1, 2008, 11:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Thompson's point is clear on this. Without term limits all we have in Washinton is swamp-rats with plenty of experience. Our economy is going down the toilet in no small part because of their experience at picking our pockets.
    So you think we should elect McCain-Palin because they are most likely "to destroy a corrupt establishment"? While it's probably true that they would unleash new forms of destruction, I agree with Brooks that we've had quite enough of that over the past 8 years, and it's time for some adult supervision.

    Pat Oliphant--Preparing Palin
    inthebox's Avatar
    inthebox Posts: 787, Reputation: 179
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    #52

    Oct 1, 2008, 07:45 PM

    David Brooks may believe this




    Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she'd be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness.

    The idea that “the people” will take on and destroy “the establishment” is a utopian fantasy that corrupted the left before it corrupted the right. Surely the response to the current crisis of authority is not to throw away standards of experience and prudence, but to select leaders who have those qualities but not the smug condescension that has so marked the reaction to the Palin nomination in the first place.


    HOWEVER:


    1] Palin has taken on the GOP's corruption in Alaska, and was successful.

    2] The subsequent bolds indicate Mr Brook's
    Cynicism for true change. He admits that most of the left and right have given up.


    So who should people choose ?

    Another adept politician that promises everything you want to hear - Obama ?
    Same old same old partisanship- no CHANGE there.

    Obama Votes Party Line 3X More Than McCain | Sweetness & Light
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #53

    Oct 2, 2008, 01:37 AM

    I agree with Brooks that we've had quite enough of that over the past 8 years
    On the contrary the biggest problem with the Bush administration is that domestically they too often acted like the established Washington elite. David Brooks by the way is infected with the same "insider "disease and increasingly so is Peggy Noonan.
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #54

    Oct 2, 2008, 05:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by inthebox View Post
    1] Palin has taken on the GOP's corruption in Alaska, and was successful.
    I suppose you could say that Sarah Palin has "taken on" the GOP's corruption in Alaska in the sense that she has overthrown the previous power brokers, and now uses the powers of government to serve her own interests (personal vendetta, political power) instead of theirs (personal wealth, political power). But that's not much of an improvement in terms of the public interest.
    2] The subsequent bolds indicate Mr Brook's
    Cynicism for true change. He admits that most of the left and right have given up.
    So what, exactly, do you think is the true change that we need? Is the whole idea of "constructive governance" just a lie told by the corrupt elites to dupe the virtuous masses? Are the ideas of "the common good", and "the public interest" nothing more than leftist political slogans that have no real validity?
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #55

    Oct 2, 2008, 05:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    on the contrary the biggest problem with the Bush administration is that domestically they too often acted like the established Washington elite.
    I'm sure the question of what was "the biggest problem with the Bush administration " will be debated for years. There are so many to choose from, and they have such far-reaching consequences that it's hard to know how to even compare them, much less pick the biggest one. Can you give some examples of what you mean by "acted like the established Washington elite"?
    David Brooks by the way is infected with the same "insider "disease and increasingly so is Peggy Noonan.
    Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to tell who's Us and who's Them, isn't it. The fact is that we're all in this together and one of the things we need is competent and prudent government.

    I'd like to ask you the same questions I asked inthebox:
    So what, exactly, do you think is the true change that we need?
    Is the whole idea of "constructive governance" just a lie told by the corrupt elites to dupe the virtuous masses?
    Are the ideas of "the common good", and "the public interest" nothing more than leftist political slogans that have no real validity?
    ZoeMarie's Avatar
    ZoeMarie Posts: 2,049, Reputation: 468
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    #56

    Oct 2, 2008, 05:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by GothGirl1771 View Post
    I think shes ok, I mean, they let Hilary run 4 president..why not have a female vice president? Beisdes, she seems down to earth an nice...I don't see what the problem is. Ok, maybe that statement was a bit over the top, but whenever a democrat says something bad, republicans never go and say anything....
    If you only had to be down to earth and nice to be vice president, then pretty much anyone could do it. I don't think that's the case.
    Galveston1's Avatar
    Galveston1 Posts: 362, Reputation: 53
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    #57

    Oct 2, 2008, 02:03 PM

    All you people crying for change, and when it is offered, you carp. First you say McCain is Bush #2, and you don't like that. Then McCain chooses a vp that is REAL change, should McCain die in office, and you don't like that either.
    You simply cannot be pleased, can you?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #58

    Oct 2, 2008, 02:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Galveston1 View Post
    All you people crying for change, and when it is offered, you carp. First you say McCain is Bush #2, and you don't like that. Then McCain chooses a vp that is REAL change, should McCain die in office, and you don't like that either.
    You simply cannot be pleased, can you?
    The hobo down the street is REAL change too but no one wants him to lead the country.
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #59

    Oct 2, 2008, 02:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Galveston1 View Post
    All you people crying for change, and when it is offered, you carp. First you say McCain is Bush #2, and you don't like that. Then McCain chooses a vp that is REAL change, should McCain die in office, and you don't like that either.
    You simply cannot be pleased, can you?
    Yes, I can be pleased, and I would be pleased, by competent, prudent, constructive governance in support of the common good.
    Galveston1's Avatar
    Galveston1 Posts: 362, Reputation: 53
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    #60

    Oct 3, 2008, 10:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ordinaryguy View Post
    Yes, I can be pleased, and I would be pleased, by competent, prudent, constructive governance in support of the common good.
    And who currently on the scene do you think will bring this?

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