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paraclete · Jul 27, 2011, 03:39 PM

What you have here is a political nutcase, a person completely obscessed, you can't blame what he did on religion, but on a disturbed mind. His problem is the same sort of problem that allowed the halocaust. Europe is a place that has allowed a problem to grow until you get an individual who will take unilateral action

tomder55 · Jul 27, 2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

Here's what Glenn Beck had to say.. I guess he agrees with Pat.

"There was a shooting at a political camp," Beck said dismissively of last week's events, "which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing. "

I dunno why I shouldn't use this thread to beat up on the right wing crazy's... They SO deserve it.

excon

I guess Beck never heard of the Young Democrats and Young Republican organizations ,both of which conduct camps .

tomder55 · Jul 27, 2011, 05:09 PM

I saw all the blogs a couple days ago making the false comparison between this Nordic twit and the "right wing " Christians in America. They were calling him a Christian Jihadist .Nothing can be further from the truth.

From his own manifesto, Breivik claims Darwin and science as his "religion." He then indentifies he's "christian" (lower case my emphasis) in the context of European culture.

From the manifesto :
"As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.“

Breivik is a product of the left's secular humanist education and culture. Breivik represents everything that "killed" Europe in the first place. One might argue, like Hitler, Breivik is a facist(National SOCIALIST) who wants to use "grand" memories of Europe to foster a "revival" of the holy Roman empire. He being the Knights Templar protector of the Empire.

More from the manifesto :

Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus. Being a Christian can mean many things;

- That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity -Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reasonis the primary source and legitimacy for authority).

It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don't need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation but rather a Christian "culturalist" military order.
This scum is the Hitler youth Glenn Beck... not the kids in the political summer camp.

paraclete · Jul 27, 2011, 05:33 PM

Sorry Tom but I object to this fellow being thought of in a Christian context, He is not even a cultural christian he just thinks having a christian culture is a good idea probably in a historical context, but his actions place him outside of christian thinking. The reason Europe has Muslim problem is its christian culture which is charitable towards the disadvantaged. If it had a Muslim culture Christian immigration would not be permitted. Just because Nazi soldiers had a Christain inscription on their belt buckle didn't make them christians and what this fellow is a some sort of nazi soldier bent on exterminating what he doesn't like. In any case we don't know what he really thinks becaue he has lifted his manifesto from another anarchist

tomder55 · Jul 27, 2011, 05:45 PM

I didn't say I agree with him.. You are quite correct in your assessment that the guy is as mad as a hatter .

I see more Charles Manson in this idiot . Both tried to spark a larger conflict .

southamerica · Jul 27, 2011, 05:48 PM

Just reading the few snippets of what people have posted of his writings HERE, let alone what I've read elsewhere... the guy is CLEARLY insane.

Just downright effing lunatic. To try and clump him in with any movement (religious OR political) merely because he claims those things is insane. Be intelligent, look at this guy's mentality, and decide for yourself. (stop listening to what the talking heads are saying, for the love of pete!)

EDIT--I mean talking heads as in news anchors... never stop listening to david byrne.

excon · Jul 27, 2011, 07:18 PM

Hello again,

I don't believe he's a CHRISTIAN terrorist, either... I think he has POLITICAL objectives... I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial.. I don't think they liked it too swell when we were torturing them either, and oh, yeah, they probably don't like being droned... I don't think the Iranians liked it when WE overthrew their elected leader and put in our own guy...

Yeah, we're screwing 'em over pretty good and I think they take exception to it.. While I believe there are plenty of Muslim terrorists, there's plenty of POLITICAL terrorists who HAPPEN to be Muslim..

excon

paraclete · Jul 27, 2011, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I don't believe he's a CHRISTIAN terrorist, either... I think he has POLITICAL objectives... I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial.. I don't think they liked to swell when we were torturing them either, and oh, yeah, they probably don't like being droned... I don't think the Iranians liked it when WE overthrew their elected leader and put in our own guy...

Yeah, we're screwing 'em over pretty good and I think they take exception to it.. While I believe there are plenty of Muslim terrorists, there's plenty of POLITICAL terrorists who HAPPEN to be Muslim..

excon

OK Ex Muslim terrorists may not attack the US because they are Muslim but it is a fair bet they have been goaded into it by activists who are. Over the last fifty years we have had various terrorist groups; the PLA; violently opposed to Israel a political response but goaded on by extremist MUSLIM GROUPS, Hezbollah; Muslim or just Lebanese? Hamas; Muslim or just Palastinian? Gaddafi; who knows what his beef was but Muslim. Al Qaeda; Muslim or just Arab? The Taliban; Muslim or just Pashtu? The list goes on. All right I'll grant you the unibomber wasn't Muslim, the Norwegian nutjob wasn't Muslim and the Red Brigades weren't Muslim but a large number of these groups have objected to US foreign policy. So if it isn't the Muslims stirring them up what I say is ask your government to suck its scone in!

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by excon

I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion. As I said, and you've heard it and read it yourself I know... they do so in the name of, for the glory and praise of, and for the reward from Allah.

Al Qaeda put it plainly in their manifesto, "Why We Fight America." :

The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam

"How can [he] possibly [accept humiliation and inferiority] when he knows that his nation was created to stand at the center of leadership, at the center of hegemony and rule, at the center of ability and sacrifice? How can [he] possibly [accept humiliation and inferiority] when he knows that the [divine] rule is that the entire earth must be subject to the religion of Allah – not to the East, not to the West - to no ideology and to no path except for the path of Allah?. "

"As long as this Muslim knows and believes in these facts, he will not - even for a single moment - stop striving to achieve it, even if it costs him his soul... his time, his property, and his son, as it is said, 'Say [to the believers]: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your wives and your kinsfolk and the worth you have acquired and the trade, the dullness of which you apprehend, and the dwellings that you fancy are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah issues His judgment. Allah guides not the disobedient people... '"

OK, separate their faith from their terrorism.

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion.

Hello again, Steve:

I CAN, and DO - which is something YOU find no problem doing when it comes to WHITE terrorists...

excon

PS> (edited) When you say it's their RELIGION that makes them pissed off at us, it allows you to overlook just how terrible we've been to them.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 07:16 AM

We understand Christianity very well and can say with plenty of conviction that Breivik is NOT Christian.

Do we know Islam so well? Perhaps Al-Qaeda manipulates the meaning of Allah's word and the Quran in the same way Breivik, and Westboro church, do the bible.

I don't know a whole lot about Islam, I'll be honest. I have attended a lecture by an Islam scholar who brought up many points from the Quran that show Al-Qaeda is either very misguided in their reading of the holy works, or they are just flat out manipulating a good thing for their evil causes.

I certainly see Excon's point, here. It's the same point we were making, except he is extending it to Al-Qaeda.

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I CAN, and DO - which is something YOU find no problem doing when it comes to WHITE terrorists...

Funny, that I'm the one supposedly with my eyes closed and you can't connect Islam and terrorism using the words "The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam."

PS> (edited) When you say it's their RELIGION that makes them pissed off at us, it allows you to overlook just how terrible we've been to them.

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Funny, that I'm the one supposedly with my eyes closed and you can't connect Islam and terrorism using the words "The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam."

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.

They=Terrorists. "They" are NOT your typical Islamic Muslim.

Same as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist church (who do what they do because GOD told them to in the BIBLE) are NOT your typical Christians.

People are smart and resourceful. When they see something powerful like a holy book that is read and revered by millions (if not billions) of people, they CAN and WILL find a way to use that power to do evil. It's a common theme in religion... but that doesn't make those who truly follow its tenants bad, or evil. It's particularly ignorant of someone to prosecute someone by comparing them to an evil person who so happened to take advantage of his or her religion.

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.

Hello again, Steve:

Simple math should prove you wrong... If "THEY" want to kill us, there's 2 BILLION of 'em, and I think I could tell if 2 BILLION of the worlds people wanted to kill me.

So, by MY reckoning, there's only small factions of Muslims who think that way... SA got it right in that, I'm SURE they distort Islam, kind of the way Westboro Baptist Church distorts Christianity...

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by excon

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

YOU could say that, but you don't. Many people DO say that... does that make it true?

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

They=Terrorists. "They" are NOT your typical Islamic Muslim.

Same as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist church (who do what they do because GOD told them to in the BIBLE) are NOT your typical Christians.

Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.

How though? You are comfortable saying Breivik is definitely not Christian, yet his manifesto has Jesus and God all over it. Yet you cannot say that Al-Qaeda ISN'T Muslim simply because they invoke Allah?

I suppose I just don't see this as anything but a double standard...

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion.

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.

Hello again, Steve:

Always?

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Simple math should prove you wrong... If "THEY" want to kill us, there's 2 BILLION of 'em, and I think I could tell if 2 BILLION of the worlds people wanted to kill me.

So, by MY reckoning, there's only small factions of Muslims who think that way... SA got it right in that, I'm SURE they distort Islam, kinda the way Westboro Baptist Church distorts Christianity...

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

Are we really getting so damned literal that you guys can't understand "they" to mean only the Islamic terrorists I'm referring to? Really?

Tell you what, I'll list all the known jihadists and their motives I can come up with and you list all the known Christian terrorists and their motives that you can come up with. OK?

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 08:23 AM

Steve, a Jihad is an inner struggle of spiritual man against his human self.

Once again, jahidists are just manipulating the word for their evil.

But really, there have been TONS of Christian terrorists... we can start with the crusades, move over to India, and then to Northern Ireland, take a stop in Kansas, and then head on over to Norway. I missed A LOT in there.