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tomder55 · Feb 14, 2018, 10:05 AM

wonder what's up with these generals who get involved with Trump?

Not just with Trump . Most of the Generals have issues when it comes to dealing with situations non-military . Not all of them are George Marshall's .My pet theory is that they spend so much of their lives immersed in the military culture ...even when they are state side ,they lived lives in bases where the structure of life is different than outside . Thy often have difficulty with the transition. History is not on their side when it comes to being competent aides to the President .Think of the Generals who have crashed going back to Major General Harry H. Vaughan in the Truman days . Then you had Generals like Alexander Haig with his meltdown following Reagan's shooting ;or Adm. John Poindexter convicted of lying to Congress ;or even General Petraeus being forced to step down from CIA due to classified information passed on to his lover biographer . Truth is that society lifts these guys on a pedestal because they made it to the highest rung in the military and thus have earned out respect and admiration. But that also makes them vulnerable to a higher fall.

Athos · Feb 14, 2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I wonder what's up with these generals who get involved with Trump?

Good question. In the military, loyalty is everything. One obeys his superiors without question. When ordered to "take that hill", the military man does not call a committee to discuss options, he takes the hill - do or die.

It works in reverse, the military man expects his orders to be obeyed by those under him - no exceptions. For some, this leads to a God complex.

When the general or admiral retires and is called to civilian governing, he is unused to the push and pull of politics. His job has changed, but not his mindset. Examples are Patton - "Nazis are like the Democrats and Republicans" - which cost him his job as military governor of Bavaria. On the other hand, George Marshall was an exceptional statesman.

The saddest example is Colin Powell, a good man who shilled for the Bush/Cheney war criminals.

Kelly is an unmitigated disaster. He's piling lie upon lie just like his master. Flynn was worse.

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2018, 02:01 PM

The saddest example is Colin Powell, a good man who shilled for the Bush/Cheney war criminals.

I can't figure you guys out . I thought the latest thinking is that the consensus of the intel community was unassailable . Can't tell you how many times I've heard the meme about 17 intel agencies supporting the conclusion that the Russians stole the election. Back in 2003 not only did the American intel agencies believe that Iraq had wmd and an active wmd program ;but the consensus of the world intel agencies came to the same conclusion. Not only that, I can post multiple videos of Democrats loudly warning of the threat of Iraq wmd. Colin Powell went to the UN with the information that he was given by those same intel agencies that you now with certainty say are giving us the correct unimpeachable evidence of Russian collusion to steal the election .

paraclete · Feb 14, 2018, 03:16 PM

Tom, fake news is not confined to the media, disinformation is stock in trade of intelligence agencies and yet suddenly they are to be believed because they have a tale that fits, in this case Trump could not win without outside help

talaniman · Feb 14, 2018, 05:33 PM

I can't figure you guys out .

What's to figure out? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that.

Tom, fake news is not confined to the media, disinformation is stock in trade of intelligence agencies and yet suddenly they are to be believed because they have a tale that fits, in this case Trump could not win without outside help

The Dufus is the FAKE NEWS, and that's how he won... with a little help from his friends.

paraclete · Feb 15, 2018, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

What's to figure out? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that.

Not good strategy, because it also resolves as the enemy of my friend is my enemy, but my nation has seen its friend sit on the side lines more than once while we have fought in many wars at the side of our friends.

talaniman · Feb 16, 2018, 03:17 AM

There are your wars, and our wars. Need help just holler.

Athos · Feb 16, 2018, 07:58 AM

Russian bots flood Twitter after Florida shooting. Promotes pro-gun control message which Trump obediently follows.

Characterizing shooters as deranged lone wolves with potential terrorist connections is a popular strategy of pro-gun groups because of the implication that new gun laws could not have prevented their actions. On Thursday President Trump tweeted as much: “So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior.”

Source: https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-...land-shooting/

tomder55 · Feb 16, 2018, 08:06 AM

Russian Bots ? lol really desperate for answers are ya ? I wonder if Russians bots have as much influence in this country as NBC affiliates.

talaniman · Feb 16, 2018, 08:21 AM

You can dismiss Russian cyber intrusions on our social media and networks all you want at your own peril. That's The Dufus's real problem, he fails to acknowledge reality and therefore doesn't address it, despite what his own generals and intel chief tell him and congress. That's but one reason he is a DUFUS!

If he thinks he can go to Florida and sale his BS photo ops with a mouth full of platitudes, while the victims of this school massacre call for action, he will get his hat handed to him. Russian BOTS are REAL, and Vlad uses them to great affect.

tomder55 · Feb 16, 2018, 08:47 AM

Was it a Russian bot that floated the fake news that the shooter was involved with a Nazi group ? I guess this is the 21st version of McCarthyism . Look under your desk . There is a Russian spy there .

Athos · Feb 16, 2018, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Russian Bots ? lol really desperate for answers are ya ? I wonder if Russians bots have as much influence in this country as NBC affiliates.

Apparently Trump is the only one who is unaware of Russian accounts/influence on the internet. Oh, and you.

Facebook itself identified nearly 500 false accounts interfering in the 2016 election by placing thousands of ads emanating from an agency in Russia tied to the Russian government. They testified to this before Congress. They continue their interference - why change a good thing?

Twitter has admitted it can do little about the thousands of Russian accounts it has discovered - unwilling is more like it. It promotes a "free and open platform". Read - we'd rather just rake in the money.

The Russians themselves scoff, saying there may be "creative entrepreneurs" but they're not connected to the government. Yeah, right.

Because of Trump, this mighty nation is not effectively waging cyber-warfare, even defensively, against the Russians. Gee, I wonder why? He's already been successfully blackmailed by Stormy Daniels. The Russians are playing the same tune. Open your eyes, tomder.

Athos · Feb 16, 2018, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Was it a Russian bot that floated the fake news that the shooter was involved with a Nazi group ? I guess this is the 21st version of McCarthyism . Look under your desk . There is a Russian spy there .

No, tomder. That particular piece of fake news was provided by your compadres - the alt-right. The internet is filled with these lunatics who post the most outrageous untruths that sane people wonder who in the world could possibly believe them?

The true believers are the Trump core.

talaniman · Feb 16, 2018, 11:25 AM

BREAKING NEWS

Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals, and 3 foreign entities for conspiracy to meddle in US elections

MORE BREAKING NEWS

FBI had TWO specific tips on Florida school shooter.

Must be Friday!

tomder55 · Feb 16, 2018, 11:30 AM

BREAKING NEWS

Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals, and 3 foreign entities for conspiracy to meddle in US elections

great job !!! after a year of investigation Mueller is going to take down bloggers ! I hope he doesn't think I'm a bot . I say bad things about Evita all the time . Better watch out ;he'll be targeting AMHD next .

"There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity," Rosenstein said, adding there "there is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election."http://variety.com/2018/politics/new...be-1202702272/

MORE BREAKING NEWS

FBI had TWO specific tips on Florida school shooter.

yep and yet they did nothing . like I always say . When seconds count the cops are minutes away .

talaniman · Feb 17, 2018, 04:52 AM

Between Russia, and the loony right wing noise machine, we have a problem! I have to ask what the law should do about a guy legally buying an AR-15, and ammo, and posting hate stuff on social media?

paraclete · Feb 17, 2018, 06:08 AM

You can't ask that question, it violates the right of the NRA to sell murder machines, remember Donald didn't ask that question, he wants to know what to do about mental illness, I say lock Donald up, it's a start

talaniman · Feb 17, 2018, 07:18 AM

Maybe we will get there too Clete since just because we got the goods on some Russians, doesn't mean the investigation is over. Plus another female has been uncovered that The Dufus cheated with and got paid off. Is there no end to his scandals?

tomder55 · Feb 17, 2018, 07:20 AM

The FBI was warned that he wanted to kill people and that

there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.” They did not act on the tip. This is on them. Clear FBI protocols were not followed .

Cruz reportedly had dozens of run ins with law enforcement prior to shooting up Marjory Stoneman Douglas High dating back to 2010. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Friday that there were "20 calls for services in the last few years." They SAY he purchased the gun legally .But his backround tells me the gun shop did not do their homework either . He and his brother were both diagnosed with a variety of mental illness issues and were prescribed medication for it . He was expelled from a school because of behavioral problems ;which included finding bullets in his backpack.

What we had here was a walking billboard broadcasting danger and all the so called experts and authorities turned a blind eye to it . That is the problem.

And this is the problem ;30 years ago many schools had gun clubs . High schoolers would bring guns and ammo to school and drill after school in the school's shooting range . Semi-auto rifles were available .Although they did not look like military rifles ,they had the same capabilities. Guns didn't suddenly decide to start reigning down death in schools. What happened since then ?

Well for one thing the kids back then were taught right and wrong ,good and evil. The kids in those clubs were taught what to do and not what to do with those guns .

They lived in a time in America when right and wrong was clearly delineated , where expectations about behavior were clear.

The mainstreaming of nihilism...Cultural decay...pharmaceutical fixes(more on that below) ..all contribute to the culture they are brought up in today .The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. With all the shootings ,America still refuses to have a serious discussion on the issue .And that is because they would have to look in the mirror and point the finger to who created this Frankenstein.

There was a time in America when any adult on the block could reprimand a neighborhood kid who was out of line without fear. The culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints were the target of years of attack by the counterculture that has now become the dominant culture. Hollywood made fun of these restraints in films too numerous to list. Now the child is always right even when a sometimes deeply medicated brat who disrupts the classroom gets away with what a good paddling would've remedied in the past. You think it's bad now ? Wait a few years when the kids who's baby sitter is their cell phone get to school .

re big Pharma ...When you talk of lobbying ....the NRA spends nothing compared to what Big Pharma spends . Note the reluctance of law makers to address the fact that many of the young generation are being poisoned by psychotropic drugs that are dispensed like candy to the kids . Our elected leaders would rather get on their high horse and spew platitudes about gun laws for a week before they go back to looking for wife abusers in the White House or phantom Russian spies under their beds rather than deal with reality . Few will draw the clear connection between the violence and the fact that in almost every case where kids do the shooting ,they were prescribed medications that generally do more harm than good . I know someone who was prescribed Prozak .The personality change and the physical affects were immediately noticeable. Thankfully this person listened to advice and got off the medications before permanent damage was done.

talaniman · Feb 17, 2018, 12:26 PM

The FBI was warned that he wanted to kill people and that

there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.” They did not act on the tip. This is on them. Clear FBI protocols were not followed .

AGREED!! The call center that took this tip should have forwarded to the right people both FBI and local authorities. Obviously there is a BIG hole in the system!

Cruz reportedly had dozens of run ins with law enforcement prior to shooting up Marjory Stoneman Douglas High dating back to 2010. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Friday that there were "20 calls for services in the last few years." They SAY he purchased the gun legally .But his backround tells me the gun shop did not do their homework either . He and his brother were both diagnosed with a variety of mental illness issues and were prescribed medication for it . He was expelled from a school because of behavioral problems ;which included finding bullets in his backpack.

AGREED!! All those contacts and reports it boggles my mind no agencies, or resources were enabled for this fellow or the family. Worse nothing that would stop him from buying a gun was ever reported. The state, locals, and feds share a lot of blame for failing to act in any responsible manner so another one falls through what appears to be a HUGE crack. Do I include the gun shop guy in this? I am not so sure unless we get more on that. It's no secret though that buying a rifle in Florida is quick, simple, and easy if you have no felonies.

What we had here was a walking billboard broadcasting danger and all the so called experts and authorities turned a blind eye to it . That is the problem.

AGREED!! You get the trifecta!

And this is the problem ;30 years ago many schools had gun clubs . High schoolers would bring guns and ammo to school and drill after school in the school's shooting range . Semi-auto rifles were available .Although they did not look like military rifles ,they had the same capabilities. Guns didn't suddenly decide to start reigning down death in schools. What happened since then ?

For all the tragedy, havoc, and MAYHEM it's still just that one or two that creates it, and lets face it, most fly under the radar, but Cruze is in a category of his own.

Well for one thing the kids back then were taught right and wrong ,good and evil. The kids in those clubs were taught what to do and not what to do with those guns .

They lived in a time in America when right and wrong was clearly delineated , where expectations about behavior were clear.

Kids nowadays are not the real problem here, and I think its a bad rap. Despite all those changes basically we still have some good kids, but less supervised, and that's the adults....OUR generation Tom...that's what's changed. It sort of had to though, since the whole darn world has changed, not just the culture, society is different for sure, more stuff out here, and a lot more to get into, but most kids are okay I think. Kids generally emulate the adults they are exposed too.

The issue here is our system fails to address the safety and welfare of kids when it comes to how we deal with the dangerous outrageous predators that fall through the cracks of normal acceptable behavior.

The mainstreaming of nihilism...Cultural decay...pharmaceutical fixes(more on that below) ..all contribute to the culture they are brought up in today .The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. With all the shootings ,America still refuses to have a serious discussion on the issue .And that is because they would have to look in the mirror and point the finger to who created this Frankenstein.

Where does an unemployed 19 year old drop out get the money for an AR-15 and plenty of ammo?

There was a time in America when any adult on the block could reprimand a neighborhood kid who was out of line without fear. The culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints were the target of years of attack by the counterculture that has now become the dominant culture. Hollywood made fun of these restraints in films too numerous to list. Now the child is always right even when a sometimes deeply medicated brat who disrupts the classroom gets away with what a good paddling would've remedied in the past. You think it's bad now ? Wait a few years when the kids who's baby sitter is their cell phone get to school .

I don't think its bad now. I just think years of inaction by reasonable ADULTS have steered us to a really bad place and it's time to SH1T or get off the pot!

re big Pharma ...When you talk of lobbying ....the NRA spends nothing compared to what Big Pharma spends . Note the reluctance of law makers to address the fact that many of the young generation are being poisoned by psychotropic drugs that are dispensed like candy to the kids . Our elected leaders would rather get on their high horse and spew platitudes about gun laws for a week before they go back to looking for wife abusers in the White House or phantom Russian spies under their beds rather than deal with reality . Few will draw the clear connection between the violence and the fact that in almost every case where kids do the shooting ,they were prescribed medications that generally do more harm than good . I know someone who was prescribed Prozak .The personality change and the physical affects were immediately noticeable. Thankfully this person listened to advice and got off the medications before permanent damage was done.

I agree with the general premise of lobbyists, big pharma, the NRA and all the rest of the big money profiteers who have adversely affected our elections, lives, and wellbeing for a profit, most glaring being the opioid problem, that's been around for more than a century, but just getting noticed, but will disagree about the characterization of reasonable gun control issues, wife beaters, and especially phantom spies my friend, as those are real, whether you believe it or not, your choice.

I respectfully can submit the case that those who need meds should have them as long as they are under the care and supervision of a good doctor. So before I buy they are bad for everyone, then I will leave that alone and just stay with the position some dangerous loonies are out there, young, old, and in between ready to explode on us with mayhem when they fall through the cracks. Unfortunately our society is destroying the safety net, and as a result more will suffer as more fall through those cracks that we as a society are creating.

Nice rant though, almost as good as mine.

8D