They shouldn't surprise you. I've been consistent in my views. I believe I have supported those views with facts and logic. I haven't had to back pedal and restate my position because I've mistated facts or truths.

I will say that the actions of the ACLU are open to interpretation. Which leaves us in the realm of opinion. I just feel that personal biases are causing some misinterpretation of the facts.

Scott<>

Dude, I've asked you 3 questions in this thread and you've answered none. Why?

The most obvious fact to show that the ACLU is not really there to protect freedoms but only to further their own agenda and that of their support groups.

When have they lately defended a Christian for his rights. When are they sueing a court house to let a Christian show his symbol of faith.

How about law suits against other relgions, I did not see them fighting to make the lady in Florida take off her face covering in her Drivers licence photo.

They sue if someone talks wrong about homosexual activity but when have they supported a Christian value. They support the very minory fringe groups. One person in a school system does not like something, but all the rest do, so what happens law suit.

They are firmly behind trying to make new laws from legal court actions.
The courts get the blame, but it is normally these people that start the issues.

American values, the real values that the majority of americans want.

Why do you think that the democrats actually won the two governors races, it was because the democrat governors spoke about their religion belief and their faith. The liberal agenda is losing votes, losing the democrats all of their power base. A few are finally seeing that it is faith, American values and moral values that actually wn elections.

Of course there will be a minorty of people not happy when American values come back into place, but that is what a Republic is, the good for the majority of the people.

These frivious law suits they file are a waste of tax payer money, a waste of the courts time and in general ( not all of course) but the majority are just bad for American values and culture.

Let me guess: you think Fox News is "Fair and Balanced". :D

And what fact is that?

This one questions actually help prove my point and show your lack of understanding ot the ACLU and its purpose.

The point I have been making is that the ACLU is about defending the Constitution. In the focus of this discussion, specifically the separation of Church and State. So to ask about them "sueing a court house to let a Christian show his symbol of faith." is ridiculous. They would only sue to prevent ANY religious display on public property. Note that they have protested having menorahs and the display of the Ten Commandents, both jewish symbols.

And why would they try to prevent the driver's license photo?

[QUOTE=Fr_Chuck]They sue if someone talks wrong about homosexual activity but when have they supported a Christian value. They support the very minory fringe groups. One person in a school system does not like something, but all the rest do, so what happens law suit.

They are firmly behind trying to make new laws from legal court actions.
The courts get the blame, but it is normally these people that start the issues.

American values, the real values that the majority of americans want.[/QUOTE

Again, you prove my point. I've said before, that my philosophy is that anyone can do what they want up to but NOT including interfering with someone else's right to do the same. So why should any group, even if they be the majority, be allowed to oppress interfere with someone else? School's are PUBLIC institutions. They should not and cannot be used to promote any one group's ideals to the detriment of the anothers. And THAT is real American values! That is the principles that great men like Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and others of the founding fathers fought for!

I don't think you even know what American values are. You want to think you do. But it seems your idea is that the majority can impose their will on the minority. America is more about individual rights, the philosophy I stated. Its about freedom and liberty. You want to believe the liberal agenda is losing votes, but the fact is that the callous disregard of the middle and lower classes by the current administration is swinging things back.

Scott<>

ROFL! Its amazing what claptrap these people will believe in. I tried reading that site that Fred pointed to, but it was so disjointed, so hard to follow and so full of assinine comments I couldn't stomach it for very long

Scott<>

Hi,
I haven't responded to specific questions, to "prove" points, as others seem to really like doing. They have time to sit at their computer all day; I don't.

Facts about certain issues can be found anywhere on the web, and not worth the time to re-print, or research by me. If anyone has any questions about what someone else states, they can research it themselves on the web; find out if what is stated is really true or not; whether it's any of my statements, or statements others make.
It is your right to use words such as "assinine comments", or any other definitive words. One has to realize though, that we all have opinions.

Sorry I haven't replied to my own thread in wuite some time, but I've been busy. First, yes I am anti-liberal scotty, but you need to understand that here at the university of Iowa I am a speck of red in an ocean of blue, and it's the liberals here that have made me this way. Also, most conservatives that voice their political views in forums like this are usually extreme like me. SO long as the liberal I converse with isn't arrogant, I'm extremely tolerant and actually intrigued.

However, I have read some posts that perpetuate extreme ingorance. The ACLU is the most radical organizations in America. They are anti-christian, pro-prostitution. Makes a lot of sense huh? Anyway, someone mentioned that public schools force christianity upon students if there are religious icons. Prepostorous!! Let me tell all of you one thing that has bothered me most about the liberal garbage I read everyday in this country. Prohibing the colors of CHRISTmas is ridiculous! Another example is not allowing intelligent design to be taught in school. Think about this: We are bringing up an ignorant genereation of youth. They are ignorant to things like culture, religions in our country, and accurate history of our nation. But they aren't ignorant to things like sex, drugs, etc. It kills me to see this happening. Is it so wrong to have "under God" in the pledge. NO, it's not the students complaining it's the stubborn parents. Leacing it in there actually teaches our children that the framers WERE strongly Christian. PSI42 is completely wrong and needs to go back to school. Yes, that's right, the foudning fathers of this country were christian and DID base many things that they did off that belief. Here in Iowa CIty, there is a muslim girl who isn't even a citizen but making a problem because they are going to build a statue of an angel for hope in a public park. She's an idiot! The city isn't even paying for it, the money is coming from donations made by people. Being ignorant to other cultures results with genecide. Ignorance to one's own culture leads to suicide. Present time, it's not PC for a christian like me to say stuff like this. Yet, ACLU and other crack heads like them can do whatever they want. Our society is leaning to become anti christian. The ten commandments aren't offensive to anyone but some loud mouth that wants to be on CNN. Fact: The definition of a religion is A) a belief in God, or B) a system of beliefs. Atheism is a RELIGION because it's based on a belief of secularism, and belief in No deity. By eliminating all religious icons we are endorsing their religion. This is irrefultable fact. You are violating my rights to represent my religion in this nation.

Stated earlier by scott (I think) it was said religion is a social construct. So's race. It's a social construct and has no biological reasoning behind it (confirmed by Harvard University). So why is it that you dem's fight for affirmative action, but don't fight for religious equality. You may say you do, but by tearing down my religion not just in papers, but even in forums like these (it happens all the time) you are discriminating against me.

Sorry for the ramble there. Anyway, my main point is though, that we are teaching ignorance in our schools. The history they learn is fabricated. All they learn about is secularism. THere are secular ways of teaching religion, and it can only help them. The only thing is that all the muslim, jewish, atheist, etc, parents out there are worried that there children might be free-thinkers and convert to christianity. That's where the problem is. People tend to think that they have a right to interpret the constitution as though they were the Supreme Court. Well you're not. Freedom of Religion means to not set a specific national government. Not, prohibit religion from public places.

And Ann Coulter is god, everything she writes is Gospel truth.

Come on open your eyes and see what is really going on around you!

This is a damn good idea, teach it fine but DON'T teach it as science which is what has almost happened.

ID is so linked with religion it's scary, and to try and teach it along side Darwin is a total farce !

You think?

Of course History is fabricated, its written by the WINNING side ffs!

Yeah, just the way you guys view CNN the way the ACLU views prostitution, nothing better in the whole world.

Before you start on me please notice where I come from !

Obviously you don't know what science is. If we define Biology it's the life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution. Creationism teaches this along with evolution, just from two different points of view. Evolution. By the way, is not the most solid theory. If you don't teach creationism along with it, you distort it and propagate your own liberal position.

It doesn't work that way, in my opinion. One should not make statements unless one is prepared to prove, support and defend them when challenged. If they can't, they need to retract them. Its not up to other people to research your statements its up to you to back them up. What you fail to realize is that much of the time that a statement is challenged its because the challenger HAS researched and found no basis for the statement being challenged.

I do not make any statement that I am not prepared to backup. There may be times I find that I can't back up what I've said, though that is rare. But in such cases I will retract what I've said.

In the past, you have accused me of making up rules, but this seems to be what you are doing here. In all my experience, the burden has always been on the individual to back up their statements not the challenger.

There is also the issue of once you enter a discussion you need to be prepared to follow through. This is why I usually don't get involved in things likes. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But if you refuse to support or retract what you say, then it is you who appears the fool.

Scott<>

Ok time to take a breath and get off your high horse !

How can creationism be taught as a SCIENCE when it is based TOTALLY on faith ?

At least Evolution is a Theory and until it is disproved or updated it's the best we have.

Creationism has it place in Religious Studies NOT in science.

Straight from the dictinoary:Biology it's the life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution

ID does all of this. If you don't like it you can write webster and tell him he's wrong.

Sorry curly no more for now, I need to go to church.

Ok so you can cut&paste from a website.
Now please address this point

Just to help you out here


Have I made my point yet??

Yet you spend all day posting on at least 3 discussion boards.

I see you believe that segregation was a good thing and blacks should seat at the back of the bus.

The day Fred answers a direct question on a difficult subject is the day I turn to Islam !