We're talking about "current welfare recipients" (who usually live near other family members). You brought it up. How can afford to move?

You've got a great list there.

Do what people have done for centuries. Sell everything you have, if need be, to buy a bus ticket. Do what has to be done. Act like a grown up and take care of yourself. People have done it for hundreds of years, and they used to do it in covered wagons. The greatest hindrance is the misplaced sympathies of liberals who want to treat these people like children and give them money taken from the pockets of others.

The people who currently have these jobs put what little they had in a backpack and sneaked across the border to get to those jobs. They walked the whole way. Don't you think that people who are already here and have some possessions can't do something similar?

The only path to the American dream is to get off your duff and get busy. Being on welfare is a lifetime sentence to mediocrity. It is a terrible thing to do to a free American.

You see, the people with nothing do this but those on welfare have too much to lose. Forget the american dream, that was last century and understand that you can only get what you work for

So easy to denigrate others when you have what you want. Shouldn't you Christians stop the badmouth and be grateful for what you have and help others when you can? Should you, when you cannot ,help those that can help others?

Just asking.

I don't think I have done that.

I think you sum up my belief in the matter very well. I do believe I should help others and regularly do so. Where you and I differ is that you believe you should be able to not just help the poor yourself, but compel others to do so as well.

Clete, I assure you the American dream is alive and well for those who are willing to work for it.

What about those who are willing but unable to work for it?

Not real sure what your point is, but I suppose you are referencing those who are physically or mentally disabled. They are certainly in a difficult position, although there are a great many physically disabled people who have overcome their disability and become very successful. Still, would you rather be in the United States and be disabled, or be disabled in any country you can pick in Africa, South America, or Asia?

Nope. I'm referring to those who have children and aren't married, live amongst family who give them emotional and perhaps financial support, who have never lived away from "home", who didn't do well in school and maybe don't even have a hs diploma.

You have met people like this? That's a lot of qualifiers.

Yes, I'm a retired public librarian and also a counselor (internship that opened my eyes was at Catholic Charities). And that description also fits a niece-in-law. I personally know three guys with Asperger's who fit that description except they aren't married with kids and did graduate from h.s.

Well, Aspergers would be a disability. As to your niece-in-law, is your family helping her? Has she gotten her GED? Is she pursuing job skills? Is she committed to no more children outside of marriage (which essentially means no more sex outside of marriage)? I would hope your family would be sufficient to help her.

I'm a retired school principal/teacher and a chaplain at a drug rehab center. I am aware of the number of hard cases out there. The problem with many of these people, and it is a hard problem to solve, is that they have a history of bad choices and show no sign of correcting that. I don't say that in a judgmental manner, but just as a matter of truth. It is difficult to deal with.

Asperger's is the brain differently wired. If anything, it's a developmental disability that can be helped with CBT and similar therapies.

The problem with my niece-in-law is that her parents help her too much and always have. It's called enabling. I'm sure each person who doesn't work or who doesn't want to move to another, unfamiliar part of the US for a job has a story to tell.

Conservatives have no trouble demanding tribute to those they KNOW have difficulties and issues. Able bodied is able bodies and what they get is no sympathy. During the Obama administration repub governors had to have a waiver for the work requirements just because they had no jobs in some parts of their states. It was granted and a plan was implemented for educational programs instead and repub heads exploded.

Few if any can just migrate to a different location and start working at what's available without some assistance and help, not even my 50 year old miner friend in Pa. that was needing a job when the mine shutdown, and there just was none. This isn't the American dream it's a nightmare when such life disruptions occur through NO FAULT of their own. I guess his bad choice was being a miner.

People deserve better than criticism for bad choices, and bad situations they never made. It could take years to overcome such events in ones life with help, let alone without the right help. JL my friend, you are a good fellow with good works, and intentions, but sometimes that just not enough, and that's frustrating I know, but great... no... good outcomes are never guaranteed and maybe you live in a smallish community where everybody knows everybody, but the big cities are full of good people who have met a bad time and not always from bad choices either, just desperate ones.

Maybe you should sojourn to other places and learn the harshness of reality and gain insights into your fellow humans instead of condemning them and denying them REAL help. But for the grace of God go you!

End of sermon... for now!

Both of my parents were products of the depression. Dad ended up as an E-8 in the Air Force and mom took a work scholarship to college to become a teacher. Thankfully they did not use the "Tal, whine for me" approach to life. Oh, the harshness of reality! Oh how we deny people help! Whine, whine, whine. Please. Spare me the lecture. I've lived 65 years without that nonsense and I've no intention of starting now. If you are mentally and physically healthy, then get busy. Might have to move. Sorry about that, but that's life. Get on with it. Don't depend on the government. Don't have children outside of marriage. Get a job and work hard at it. It's not complicated. It can be hard, but not complicated.

If I need to help someone I will. I am helping a good friend right now, but am I in favor of getting people addicted to government aid? Not ever.

I love the way you conservatives frame your BS with YOUR personal story. It's irrelevant unless you can listen and empathize with the story of others.

Products of or born during?

Actually born before. Spent their childhood/teenage years in the Depression. It really left a mark on my dad especially. His family in particular became desperately poor, dirt farmers in Mississippi. So yeah, I don't have much patience with people who want to sit around and feel sorry for themselves. I generally gave up feeling sorry for people a long time ago unless they are physically/mentally disabled. I have a friend right now, age 61, who can barely walk across the room. He would love to be able to work a 50 hour a week job, but can't. For those who can, I just don't feel sorry for you.

Both of my parents were born before and spent their growing-up years watching their parents cope (my father lived near Chicago and my mother in southcentral Idaho). I understand what you're saying.

Financial help isn't always what's needed to get someone energized. I've always enjoyed helping people figure out ways to help themselves and be hopeful.