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-   -   The $ 1 trillion ($3,5 trillion ) con (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=848322)

  • Aug 5, 2021, 05:00 AM
    tomder55
    The $ 1 trillion ($3,5 trillion ) con
    As many as 20 Repub sucker Senators will vote yes on the $trillion "infrastructure " bill that no one has read(to date it is 2700 pages long and growing ) . EVERYONE knows that is not the end . After it is passed it will then go into a reconciliation bill that will only need a majority vote for passage. Kam the Sham will cast the deciding vote and all those GOP saps will wring their hands and act like Captain Louis Renault and proclaim they are shocked ;shocked at the Dem betrayal ! The Dems will proclaim it a bipartisan win. Quid will present this to the radical lefty wing of the party that he can deliver on their transformation agenda .

    Casablanca gambling? I'm shocked! - YouTube
  • Aug 5, 2021, 05:14 AM
    jlisenbe
    Even worse, it is money that we do not have. When the pols figured out that the American people have become so dumb as to celebrate the spending of borrowed/printed money which precludes the need to raise revenues, then it was a great day for the pols and a disaster for the rest of us.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 05:34 AM
    tomder55
    What is bipartisan is this utopian free lunch notion that borrowing is free; spending pays for itself ,interest rates remain near zero and inflation is a temporary disruption in the supply chain.
    What is really sad is that few of the dollars will go to actual infrastructure improvement . More likely it will be like the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act fill in pot holes project complete with quid's version of the emperor's propaganda road signs .
    https://inertiawins.files.wordpress..../arra-sign.jpg

    Something like Build Back Better

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/g1cAA...Oq9/s-l300.jpg
  • Aug 5, 2021, 05:48 AM
    tomder55
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/161...g?v=1579549856
  • Aug 5, 2021, 05:58 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    As many as 20 Repub sucker Senators will vote yes on the $trillion "infrastructure " bill that no one has read(to date it is 2700 pages long and growing )

    The bill was finalized on Sunday evening.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 06:46 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    What is really sad is that few of the dollars will go to actual infrastructure improvement

    Here's a list of infrastructure improvements:

    $110 billion for roads, bridges and major infrastructure projects.

    $40 billion for bridge repair, replacement, and rehabilitation, the single largest bridge investment in 65 years,
    $17.5 billion for major projects that would be too large or complex for traditional funding programs,
    $11 billion for transportation safety,
    $1 billion to reconnect communities, disproportionately Black neighborhoods, that were divided by highways and other infrastructure,
    $39 billion to modernize public transit,
    $66 billion in passenger and freight rail, the largest federal investment in public transit in history,

    $65 billion investment in improving the nation's broadband infrastructure,
    $17 billion in port infrastructure and $25 billion in airports to address repair and maintenance backlogs, reduce congestion and emissions near ports and airports and promote electrification and other low-carbon technologies,
    $7.5 billion for zero- and low-emission buses and ferries,
    $7.5 billion would go to building a nationwide network of plug-in electric vehicle chargers,
    $73 billion to rebuild the electric grid,
    $55 billion to upgrade water infrastructure,
    $50 billion would go toward making the system more resilient -- protecting it from drought, floods and cyber attacks,
    $21 billion to clean up Superfund and brownfield sites.


    Paying for the bill:

    Repurposing unused Covid relief funds. The bill text lists savings from rescinding unobligated appropriations for the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program for small businesses and nonprofit groups, the Paycheck Protection Program, the Education Stabilization Fund and relief for airline workers, among others.

    $53 billion that stems in part from states opting to terminate the pandemic unemployment benefits early to push the jobless to return to work.

    $49 billion from delaying a controversial Trump administration rule that would radically change how drugs are priced and paid for in Medicare and Medicaid until 2026, at the earliest. The measure would effectively ban drug makers from providing rebates to pharmacy benefit managers and insurers. Instead, drug companies would be encouraged to pass the discounts directly to patients at the pharmacy counter. It is currently expected to go into effect in 2023.

    Recoup funds from fraudulent pandemic unemployment payments, how much has been stolen and how much can be recovered is not known.

    $56 billion in economic growth resulting from a 33% return on investment on the long-term projects.

    $28 billion by changing the tax reporting rules on cryptocurrency, $20 billion from future sales of spectrum auctions and to utilize $67 billion from spectrum sales that already occurred.

    The bill won't raise taxes on people making less than $400,000 a year and does not include a gas tax increase or fee on electric vehicles. The initial call for raising taxes on corporations to fund the infrastructure investments did not make after strong opposition from Republicans.


    Left out of the bill by Republican opposition:

    $400 billion to bolster caregiving for aging and disabled Americans,
    Care at home through community-based services or from family members,
    Improve the wages of home health workers,
    $100 billion for workforce development, which would have helped dislocated workers, assisted underserved groups and put students on career paths before they graduate high school,
    $18 billion to modernize the Veterans Affairs hospitals.

    Corporate income tax raise - rejected by Republicans,
    Plan to end sheltering profits in international tax havens - rejected by Republicans,
    15% minimum corporate income tax - rejected by Republicans.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 06:53 AM
    paraclete
    looks like a plan, a plan to bankrupt the country
  • Aug 5, 2021, 07:49 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Here's a list of infrastructure improvements:
    If you add the spending figures Athos provided, you get a little more than 500 billion dollars. The bill provides for 1.2 trillion in spending. What's the other 700 bil to be wasted, er, spent on? And if you add up the figures of the revenue "plan" he provided, even if we assume that it's actually going to happen in the way described, you get less than 300 billion. Where will the extra nearly trillion dollars come from? And then there is the 500 bil or so the wicked repubs refused to agree to. How would that have been paid for? Does Athos think we cannot do math here? Is this how all liberal dems regard federal spending? Could this kind of faulty thinking explain how we have managed to get more than 30 tril in debt?

    Quote:

    Repurposing unused Covid relief funds. The bill text lists savings from rescinding unobligated appropriations for the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program for small businesses and nonprofit groups, the Paycheck Protection Program, the Education Stabilization Fund and relief for airline workers, among others.
    In other words, non-revenue money printed/borrowed, we were told, because of the urgent needs for Covid relief, will now be redirected to another supposedly urgent need. Strangely, that is not reassuring.

    Quote:

    $53 billion that stems in part from states opting to terminate the pandemic unemployment benefits early to push the jobless to return to work.
    More borrowed/printed money that was urgently needed until it wasn't urgently needed.

    Quote:

    $49 billion from delaying a controversial Trump administration rule that would radically change how drugs are priced and paid for in Medicare and Medicaid until 2026, at the earliest. The measure would effectively ban drug makers from providing rebates to pharmacy benefit managers and insurers. Instead, drug companies would be encouraged to pass the discounts directly to patients at the pharmacy counter. It is currently expected to go into effect in 2023.
    Doubtful at best.

    Quote:

    Recoup funds from fraudulent pandemic unemployment payments, how much has been stolen and how much can be recovered is not known.
    A well known song used by pols that never results in much money being recovered.

    Quote:

    $56 billion in economic growth resulting from a 33% return on investment on the long-term projects.
    A 33% return?? Maybe. Over what length of time?

    Quote:

    $28 billion by changing the tax reporting rules on cryptocurrency, $20 billion from future sales of spectrum auctions and to utilize $67 billion from spectrum sales that already occurred.
    Book keeping nonsense.

    Quote:

    The bill won't raise taxes on people making less than $400,000 a year and does not include a gas tax increase or fee on electric vehicles. The initial call for raising taxes on corporations to fund the infrastructure investments did not make after strong opposition from Republicans
    Just another in a long line of actions designed to make people happy but guaranteeing that more money must be borrowed/printed.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 09:19 AM
    tomder55
    You forgot the $500 million 'Strengthening Mobility and Revolutionizing Transportation Grant Program', meant to help acquire drones from China .

    All of these numbers are irrelevant as the real cost will be in the reconciliation bill now estimated at $3.5 Trillion on top of this bill.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 10:11 AM
    tomder55
    It is not written completely yet . As we speak the cryptocurrency lobby is at work getting Senators to amend the section of the bill that pertains to the cryptocurrency industry (is that infrastructure ? ) . I'm sure the lobbyists on K street will be working the phones 24/7 to make sure their goodies are included
  • Aug 5, 2021, 11:54 AM
    jlisenbe
    You would hope that one thing every clear thinking American could agree on would be the need to pay the bills. That our country has become so deeply in debt should be an enormous concern for every American, but what you get from both parties now is silence. The voters love the freebies too much.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 12:18 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    You forgot the $500 million 'Strengthening Mobility and Revolutionizing Transportation Grant Program', meant to help acquire drones from China .

    It was not intended to be all-inclusive. It was intended to reply to your comment that "What is really sad is that few of the dollars will go to actual infrastructure improvement".

    Quote:

    All of these numbers are irrelevant as the real cost will be in the reconciliation bill now estimated at $3.5 Trillion on top of this bill.
    Hardly irrelevant. They are what they are.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 01:23 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It was not intended to be all-inclusive. It was intended to reply to your comment that "What is really sad is that few of the dollars will go to actual infrastructure improvement".
    Less than half of the money will go to "infrastructure", and even at that, some will go to questionable areas such as, "$17.5 billion for major projects that would be too large or complex for traditional funding programs (says who?), $1 billion to reconnect communities, disproportionately Black neighborhoods, that were divided by highways and other infrastructure (what?), $39 billion to modernize public transit (to what?), $66 billion in passenger and freight rail, the largest federal investment in public transit in history (Very few people have any interest in riding trains), $65 billion investment in improving the nation's broadband infrastructure (Why isn't that private sector?), $7.5 billion for zero- and low-emission buses and ferries (completely needless), $7.5 billion would go to building a nationwide network of plug-in electric vehicle chargers (What?), $73 billion to rebuild the electric grid (It's not working fine now?).

    Now Athos doesn't like answering questions, but I do like to point out the flaws in his liberal dem reasoning which are many. His silence is illuminating.
  • Aug 5, 2021, 06:58 PM
    paraclete
    There is only one way to stop you country moving down the path to bankruptcy, another Boston tea party, but this time dump the politicians in the harbour
  • Aug 6, 2021, 02:51 AM
    tomder55
    The last time a tea party was attempted to curb uncontrolled spending ,the emperor unleashed the dogs of the IRS on them .
  • Aug 6, 2021, 04:40 AM
    jlisenbe
    I really don't know what the answer is. Dems have long been in favor of unrestrained spending (for the purpose of buying votes), but repubs seems to be on board now as well. Their defense, I suppose, is that they are in favor of LESS unrestrained spending than the dems. Either way, there is no longer a party advocating for a balanced budget, so it seems the train will have to run off the track before anyone pays attention to the rails.
  • Aug 6, 2021, 06:35 AM
    paraclete
    Isn't that what the infrastructure bill is for?
  • Aug 6, 2021, 07:03 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Isn't that what the infrastructure bill is for?
    To balance the budget? Are you kidding?
  • Aug 6, 2021, 09:50 AM
    Curlyben
    As an outsider. it would appear that the Dems are very much the UK's New Labour, trying to spend out of a crises, whereas the Reps, like UK Conservatives, merely screw everyone out of as much money as possible...
    Either way, the country as a whole, looses.

    A lot to be said for a more balanced approach..
  • Aug 6, 2021, 10:04 AM
    jlisenbe
    How are the republicans screwing people out of money?

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