So I was at a superstore loblaws me and my sister, were looking around she got some cream and makeup while I was looking at razor blades. She came to the razor section where I was and she put her stuff in her bag then I tosses her my razor and she put in into her bag and we walked out, and approached by a guy outside, took us back, called cop, etc etc. he told us we'd been charged with theft under 5000, made us sign a paper to have fingerprints and court date etc. the store said it will send a cheque for like 200 for us to pay back. Total of items was 112 or something like that. First of all, I duno why I was charged, they said I put the razor in her purse which I didn't, and they said it looked planned which it also wasn't. Ive been so freaked out since then, I duno what to expect. Both of us are clean, no record, no run-ins with the law, I'm 2nd yr uni, she's 3rd yr uni. Im so lost right now, I duno what to expect, we can't hire a lawyer its too much, it's a first offence as well. We have a court date at same time, together. I'm thinking they will just give us community service and such, since its our first offence, but I'm so scared, since there is possible jail time and could be on record. I was wondering how the judge looks over case? For these minor cases does he actually look at video and evidence and stuff, like is it presented to him? Or do we go in front of a judge , the two of us and tell him what happened and he tells us the consequences. Could someone explain what happens, I can't even sleep. By the way I'm 18 turning 19 in sept, and my sis is 20. I duno if this matters but we weren't taken to police station when it happened, given the ticket for the court date and let to go home. Thanks

Also, I was wondering if the court sends things to us in the mail like reminders of the court date because I don't want my parents to find out, and another question I forgot was, how will this record affect me traveling, for example I want to go to cube over the winter break. Will that be possible or no?

So, joker, while you were throwing the razors in her bag, along with the makeup and cream; were you smiling, like you thought you were putting something over on the store. They have cameras all over Loblaws, love, no one misses anything. You were caught (and you said another, had you done this before?). You were both stealing and thinking it was a real lark. You will regret this ever happened down the line when you have a really good job lined up and wonder about a previous police record. Way to go.

The Judge. Well that is a different story. With all the theft going on at all different stores, he is quite cognizant of first time offenders and I don't think he likes the idea of all this happening.

How could you steal, being university students, getting ahead, working hard, maybe bored. Can't you g et jobs to pay for what you want.

Go to court. You make me sick. Other people have to pay for your mistakes and rising costs the stores have to cover for this kind of activity.

And no, they don't send reminders. They expect you to still be responsible enough to attend the first hearing.

No I have not done it before, this is my first time. It was a stupid mistake, and I'm scared as to what will happen. Its my first offence

OK, yes, expect several papers to be mailed, so you had better talk to parents, and personlly I would be asking to borrow the money for an attorney, with an attorney you may get it under a diversion program where there will be no record, if not, you will have a criminal record for the rest of your life, lose out on many job chances when it shows up, even 20 years from now.

But I thought they are pretty easy with a first offense. And it wasn't even that bad, reading around the forums I hear that a lot of people don't go into court with an attorney, as the judge just sentences them to community service or video watching or whatnot because he doesn't want to waste time with little things like this. I've ever read about a guy who was sentenced to a class where there were 2nd and 3rd time offenders for theft under 5000 so how serious can this be. Look I'm not saying what I did was right, I want to kill myself for it, I feel like such a lowlife and am so embarrassed, but I do have a clean record and am in university, etc etc same with my sister, it was a one time thing and I'm sure the judge will see that I'm sympathetic and will order community service or whatnot. And what papers will be mailed? The person above said no papers will come

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Originally Posted by joker123

but i thought they are pretty easy with a first offense. and it wasn't even that bad, reading around the forums i hear that alot of people dont go into court with an attorney, as the judge just sentences them to community service or video watching or whatnot because he doesnt wanna waste time with little things like this. ive ever read about a guy who was sentenced to a class where there were 2nd and 3rd time offenders for theft under 5000 so how serious can this be. look im not saying wat i did was right, i wanna kill myself for it, i feel like such a lowlife and am so embarrassed, but I do have a clean record and am in university, etc etc same with my sister, it was jus a one time thing and im sure the judge will see that im sympathetic and will order community service or whatnot. and what papers will be mailed? the person above said no papers will come

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How do you think they're going to notify you if they don't send papers to your residence?

If you are "sure" the Judge will see you are sympathetic and order community service and "what not," then take your chances.

Im not 'sure' of anything, I'm just saying that is what I think should be the turnout judging from what I've read around the forums, people have stolen more than I have and got nothing more than a class etc. another question is does the judge know details or just theft under 5000, whether 5$ or 500$? Also the cop that came to the store at to give us the court date and stuff even said its just going to be a slap on the wrist. Its got me so worried and distressed I can't go about my normal day anymore I'm so scared. And also I was just wondering if the papers will be sent, because he already gave us a ticket and all that, only thing I know is that the store will send me a bill to pay through the mail

Ok, first, You were aware that your sister had put items, including the razors you picked in her purse. You then walked out of the store without paying for the items and you don't understand why you were charged? Give me a break!

However, fortunately for you, shoplifting is a petty crime and dealt with fairly leniently, especially for a first offense.

So Loblaws said they would send you a 'cheque', you probably mean a bill to pay for the items stolen. That is a real stretch of the imagination. Seeing as you stole them, how would Loblaws expect you to pay through the mail or otherwise. I think you will have to cough up the money when you get to court.

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Originally Posted by tickle

So Loblaws said they would send you a 'cheque', you probably mean a bill to pay for the items stolen. That is a real stretch of the imagination. Seeing as you stole them, how would Loblaws expect you to pay through the mail or otherwise. I think you will have to cough up the money when you get to court.

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This is probably a fine. If they were apprehended leaving the store, then the items were probably recovered. But Canadian case law allows the store to impose a fine as discouragement for future crimes.

It is a fine,they told me that they'll send me a bill in the mail I don't see how it's a stretch of imagination. The officer did not even take us back to the police station he gave us a ticket saying a court date. He said it'll prob be a slap on the wrist because we're first timers and clean records, etc. we are going in without a lawyer, how will this work? Will it be me and my sis in front of a judge in a room, no one else, and we will discuss what happened? I'm so rattled, I don't know what to think anymore.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

This is probably a fine. If they were apprehended leaving the store, then the items were probably recovered. But Canadian case law allows the store to impose a fine as discouragement for future crimes.

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And yes the items were recovered, unopened, undamaged, and to scottgem the reason I ask why I got charged is because he charged me as if I stole 110 $ or whatever it was, even though I did not put the other items into the purse, I gaev her the razor and she put it in, so technically I didn't steal 110, only like 20 or whatnot, I duno if you can even technically say I did because she physically put it in. I duno this is all so messed up, I regret it everyday it's the only thing on my mind right now, I hope your right though scottgem, that its treated leniently to first timers, because I know I WILL NEVER EVER DO IT AGAIN, under any circumstance, right now I'm scared to even go shopping lol

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Originally Posted by joker123

and yes the items were recovered, unopened, undamaged, and to scottgem the reason i ask y i got charged is because he charged me as if i stole 110 $ or whatever it was, even tho i did not put the other items into the purse, i jus gaev her the razor and she put it in, so technically i didnt steal 110, only like 20 or whatnot, i duno if u can even technically say i did cus she physically put it in. i duno this is all so messed up, i regret it everyday its the only thing on my mind right now, i hope your right tho scottgem, that its treated leniently to first timers, cus i know i WILL NEVER EVER DO IT AGAIN, under any circumstance, right now im scared to even go shopping lol

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You're a University student - please speak English, not text speak.

I don't think I'd raise the "technicality" issue in Court.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

You're a University student - please speak English, not text speak.

I don't think I'd raise the "technicality" issue in Court.

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Ok, my apologies, I was not aware that there is correct etiquette for online forum posts. I do not think that it really matters how I type on here, I'm obviously not interested in my grammar or spelling and am obviously just quickly replying to these posts.

Relax man this isn't something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they won't give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

It really doesn't matter whether you stole items worth $10, $100, or $1000. Under your laws, as long as its under $5K its lumped together. Nor does it matter, under the law, whether what you stole was a fraction of the total or an equal part. You were both equally guilty of theft.

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Originally Posted by patt24k

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

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Are you aware OP is in Canada? With all respect unless you are in Canada you haven't gone through this.

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Originally Posted by patt24k

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over.

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While I don't disagree that this is a minor thing to get resolved and put behind him. I think you are trivializing it too much. Its still theft and its still an illegal act. While the penalities for a first time offender will be very minor and may not result in an criminal record, its still a cause for concern.

Well I was unaware that this whole thing originated out of Canada so I apologize. Just be thankful that this didn't happen in Saudi Arabia because you would be typing this post with your toes. Ultimately, I still think this won't turn out too bad so like I said just take it easy.

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Originally Posted by patt24k

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

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I know its not THAT bad, I'm just really worried, but thanks for telling me this it helped. What does 11/29 probation mean? I plan on going to cuba this winter, will that affect my travel plans, and can I even go out on probation? My birthday is right after court and I want to have a huge party. :S

Yeah just don't miss any court dates or appointments with your probation officer and it shouldn't matter where you go. Tell your probation officer ahead of time that your leaving. 11/29 probation means 11 months and 29 days of meeting with your probation officer typically about once a month. You could be eligible for early termination of probation provided that you have complied with all of the terms of your probation after about like 6 months. But I don't know dude, if your in Canada then they might just hang you in the town square. I'm not familiar with criminal laws and minimum mandatories there.

Your probation will probably not be monitored. But if you get caught doing something wrong during the period, then the probation will be revoked. Having a birthday party shouldn't be a problem. Nor should the traveling.

Yeah scotty boy is right. There is a good chance that they should put you on what is called unsupervised probation. Then you wouldn't have to report to any probation officer.

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

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Originally Posted by lytenthyk

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

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He's in Canada - he's got a real good chance at diversion. This may be true in US but not in Canada.

We seem to be attracting some immature people to this topic and if I could up a disagree to patt24K's disagree I would. Of course on JKT's post.

Loblaws's Superstore is in Canada, they are all over Ontario, and quite large, however, very well maintained and probably have some really good inobstrusive surrveillance equipment in all their departments. I don't think very much escapes their 'eyes' and one can even locate their 'spotters' .

I don't know if the courts can keep up with this sort of activity any longer, surely something will have to be done. There are a lot of people stealing just food items, which makes this one instance so more alarming.

Two university students stealing and then worrying what their parents will think bothers me a lot. With the cost of this continuing education in Canada escalating at an alarming rate (and no doubt in the US) there probably is a lot of trust involved that kids will just buckle down and not be sideetracked by activities such as stealing. Although, I see it as a diversion, boredom, which is really bad. I would like to know if these two have all the amentities of living at home with food on the table. I know for sure there are students out there who really care what they are working towards and not taking money for education for granted living in residences where they don't have access to their parents, good meals and a friendly atmosphere.

When my son was born my husband saw the need for an investment called 'University Scholarship Fund' and started paying $60. A month from the time he was born, by the time he enrolled in college, that money had already been invested and was there for his tuition, books, possible accommodation if he needed it (he didnt) and lots of continuing education.

Off my soapbox

Hey, you guys are too fast. I already disagreed with a balancer on JKY's post and its already gone. Give me a break here!

Sorry JKT I hope you knew what I meant !

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Originally Posted by lytenthyk

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

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Jail time? Are you serious? How could I get jail time for this, surely they won't do anything like that, we are bot university students, it was a mistake I admit a very bad one, and it's a First offense, absolutely CLEAN record, have not even got a speeding ticket, NOTHING, I've never even spoken to a police officer in my life, so how could I possibly get jail time? Also I've read many many posts on here about theft under 5000, not one single person got jail time, most either get class, or get put into diversion. I am so freaked out that you even mentioned jail time, I really don't think that's a possibility, right? I mean even the cop said its just a slap on the wrist, he told me not to go in with shorts, to dress nice. What I envision is me and my sis standing in front of the judge, we tell our story, and she gives us either a class to attend and a fine or community service or something. I mean come on, jail time? Can't be.

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Originally Posted by patt24k

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

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I live in Ontario, there's no 11/29 is there? And I doubt they will give me jail time. And about this public defender where can I contact one? Are they appointed in the court or what? Can I speak with one before the court date?

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Originally Posted by joker123

Jail time? are u serious? how could i get jail time for this, surely they wont do anything like that,

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If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.

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So would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? As I will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work, I can't picture everything that will happen. Can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. And also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?

No, you want to pursue a diversion BEFORE you go before a judge. As I said there are a large number of similar threads here. BEFORE your hearing visit the court and ask about a diversion, they will explain what you need to do.

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Originally Posted by joker123

so would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? as i will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work,. i can't picture everything that will happen. can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. and also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?

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I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

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So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before I ev go to court? Or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?

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Originally Posted by joker123

So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before i ev go to court? or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?

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Read it again and do what it says.

OK, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? Or were they just scaring me?

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Originally Posted by joker123

ok, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? or were they just scaring me?

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You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

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I'm not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they haven't yet so I'm confused as to why not since they even said I will.

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Originally Posted by joker123

im not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they havent yet so im confused as to why not since they even said I will.

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Once again - they CANNOT fine you. There would be no reason to send you what they claim is a notice to pay a fine. That's against the Law on their part.

There would be no reason to tell you they CAN fine you. They CAN ask you to pay restitution. That is something different than a fine - basically it's payment to them for their time/trouble/lost merchandise.

They CANNOT legally send you a "fine" in the mail and "try" to fine you.

You misunderstood.

I have no idea why they said they would send you some sort of bill and have not - I'm sure you will find out when you go to Court.

Maybe they dropped the whole thing. No one knows but the store and perhaps the Court.