Sorry, I wasn't aware we were talking about having a gun for recreation or sustenance.

That is all part of it Karma. Here in the States many people use guns for recreation as well as sustinence. I have lived in remote Alaska where we needed one for sustinence. If it were taken away from me I would have been unable to feed my children.

Now that I live in the city I no longer need it for sustinence, but recreation now. I have to keep sharp in case I ever move back to the "wild" and need for food once more.

This is not just about crime. I was wondering about that too, but not solely.

The purpose of a gun is too kill. That was what it was thought up and invented for. Not air riffle shooting or what ever.

I think having the second amendment has brought the promlem on its own.

If some one has a gun, people are going to get a gun to protect themselves from that other person with a gun, and the other person is going to get a bigger gun to protect themselves from the person who is protecting themselves from them.

Circle. Its just like nukes, once one person has one, everyone needs one for protection and deterency, and it just gets bigger and bigger.

Unfortunately, once a law has been in place to make something legal, its bloody hard to make it illegal again.

It is much safer in countries where guns are illegal, as there is less want for one, less opportunity to get one, and less tolleration for them, and less in circulation.

It is true, that if someone wants a gun, they can get one. So making it legal is not going to deter those, and neither is making it illegal. But making it illegal will stop people getting them "just because".

I could never live in a country where there are nearly as many guns as dogs :p Protection? No. If no one had a gun, you wouldn't need the protection, and so, the whole situation has caused its self.

I hate guns.

Well, in a sense I beg to differ. I live in a country where guns are legal. If they make them illegal then the criminals will still be able to get guns, they already do, and we will have a harder time protecting ourselves.

Also, what about food? You say guns are only to kill. I have several guns and I have never killed anything except food. While living in Alaska I had to kill Moose so that my family could eat during the winter when we were unable to grow food.

It is hard to criticize a situation unless you have lived in that situation. I could never live in a country where I did not have the right to bear arms. This is not only for protection, but for self-preservation in the aspect of sustinence.

In the beginning firearms were developed so that people could hunt for their own food, not kill other people. That came later when crime was "invented." I have never shot at or harmed another human being and never will unless someone breaks into my home and threatens my children.

Just suppose someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night and threatens the lives of your children with an illegal firearm. Don't tell me there aren't any illegal firearms, there are everywhere in this world. How would you protect your children or would you let the burglar take their lives?

I haven't read through all the notes in this thread, but I do have a few things to add here. Oddly enough I got a call yesterday, one of the rare times I picked up a call from a number I didn't recognize. That was because the CallerID identified the caller as NRA. Sure enough it was that August organization doing a poll asking me if NY should do more to protect the 2nd amendment. My reply was that the NRA's paranoid objection to ANY reasonable gun control laws was a major problem in this country.

I will state that I have never owned a gun nor do I contemplate doing so. Though I have fired them on occasion.

I believe that people have the right to own weapons to be used for sport, hunting etc. But I firmly believe that there should be strong controls governing the purchase of such weapons. I don't recall seeing it mentioned, but the 2nd Amendment does not and never was intended to give an absolute right to owning arms. The second amendment was qualified under the need for a well ordered militia.

As for owning guns for protection of personal property. If you ask most law enforcement professionals, I think you will be told that there is greater likelihood for the home owner to get injured or killed then the person breaking in. RD68's comment about shooting to scare is inane. If you shoot at someone and they have a gun, they are more likely to shoot back. My house was burglarized many years aog and no, that did not induce me to get a weapon.

I think research will find studies showing that countries with strict gun control have less violent crime. The Dodge City mentality went out with the Old West.

J_9,
I guess you are totally blind to the posts from us Canadians in this thread. Handguns are illegal here, crime rate is lower here. I too love my kids but I would rather raise in a place with less hate and violence. I'm not afraid of people breaking into my house 'cause it so very rarely happens. That's the same reason why you probably don't have tornado insurance.

That's great you kill moose, but the point is guns are for killing. Ok, you kill animals, well, that could also mean humans. (im not saying you do :p) Killing. They are for killing.

Yes, to go back from the stage you are at is impossible.

Every one has a gun there, because its OK to do so, and a higher persent of criminals to. That means its more likely that the guy robbing your house will point a gun at you.

In this country because it is illegal, hardly anyone has one, and hardly any "criminals" do either. So, a guy breaking into your house with a shot gun, just never ever happens. (dont quote me, hopefully you see the point though).

So, the point is, if you make it legal, as it is there, it becomes a part of peoples lives, and is used in more situations, which means it is needed to defend more situations.

In countries where it is illegal, that is the opposite.

Using it for food, that's great. Using it to shot someone because they didn't give you a wallet. That's the problem you have. And that's because they are legal, AND incorporated into peoples lives, to a FAR greater extent to countries like england.

And, you can't do anything about it.

While I will agree with most of your post Scott, please see this link that was posted on page 2 by Captain Forest

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared...sNav=nr&id=570

Selected parts:


Quote:
Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce gun violence in Australia, Canada, or Great Britain. The policy of confiscating guns has been an expensive failure, according to a new paper The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales, released today by The Fraser Institute.



Quote:
Canada

The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic. Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted. The homicide rate is dropping faster in the US than in Canada.


I too agree that the laws should be tougher regarding the purchase of a firearm, however, criminals are going to buy them off the streets or steal them, criminals are not going to purchase guns legally. There are so many laws governing the purchase of firearms right now, and they continue to change almost daily.

P.S. I don't know how to quote older posts, so I just copied and pasted the above post.

Karma, I am not blind to those of you from Canada, look at my last post that quotes Captain Forest!

Don't need tornado insurance I don't live in a trailer. LOL

P.S. Folks this is not about bashing me!! I am not the one who made the laws, I am one of the ones who upholds it. I am not saying who is right or who is wrong, I am merely asking for opinion.

That's a dead link. I have trouble believing that the crime rate has plummeted in the US. The higher crime rate in Canada is heavily weighted towards Vancouver and Toronto so just stay out of there and you're OK. I could probably drag up 20 links that support my view but I guess it just wouldn't matter to you. I'll just enjoy my happy safe life here.

Guns suck.

But it looks like J_9 likes them,

It seems silly, crime...

Gun crime = high. Because there are more guns. Because they are legal.

Gun crime = low. Because there are less guns. Because they are illegal.

J_9 = guns = good = protection from crime.

Higher gun crime = legal guns.

Less protection from crime = lower gun crime = illegal guns = less guns = less protection.

hmm.

As I said Karma, this is not about bashing me. I did not create the freaking laws, I was merely asking for opinions. I personally do not like the crime rate here, and chose to live out of Memphis because of the crime. I wish I could afford to pick up and move to a place where there is no crime, but I can't.

If that was a dead link I apologize, I copied and pasted from page 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J_9

P.S. Folks this is not about bashing me!!! I am not the one who made the laws, I am one of the ones who upholds it. I am not saying who is right or who is wrong, I am merely asking for opinion.

---

But whenever someone posts a different view you will post back reinforcing your differing view. How the hell do you know what it's like in Canada? You've never even been here so how can you tell me otherwise? Yet I have travelled throughout the US, I even have a sister that lives there.

As I stated before, I do not live in your area of the world, if I did, I may have another opinion on this issue. I only created this thread for opinions, I will continue to say I DID NOT CREATE THE FREAKING LAWS. I hate crime, I am afraid of crime, but because of the part of the world that I live it I have to live in fear.

Don't you guys get it? I hunted for sustinence where there was no crime (in the wilderness of Alaska), but now I live where crime is rampant, and I can do nothing about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J_9

but now I live where crime is rampant, and I can do nothing about it.

---

Be my neighbour. :)

I would love to be your neighbour. But money issues prevent me from going where I would love to go, back to the wilderness of AK, where life is simple.

Thanks for asking though. I may come visit LOL

I'll leave the guns in the gun safe!!

I found the article CF linked to and scanned through it. I don't believe many of the statisitics support their conclusions. I'm sure If I spent the time researching I could find similar studies. One of the major points I noticed was that violent crime rates were much lower than the US to start with. So while rates may have risen they were quite low and may have increased due to other factors.

The main point that I think is relavent is that private, and legal gun ownership does not equate to safety. As I said, the legal gun owner is just as likely, if not more so, to be hurt or killed by using a gun during a robbery then the perpetrator.

One post made a point about family safety. Stressing that guns were secured to protect them from young children. But if the guns are so secured, then the likelihood of getting at them to protect oneself is greatly reduced. If they are not secured, then the likelihood of other tragedy occurring because of misuse is greatly increased.

First of all, Karma, thanks for the compliment, I think you are pretty cool too! BTW you live in Western Canada? I LOVE Banff and Lake Louise areas, I would love to live there. Whitehorse is another story, LOL, a totally different thread. Also, at least some of us here can agree to disagree and still have a laugh and be friends!!

Scott, yes I mentioned that I do have a gun safe. It is kept under lock and key and combination, but that is more to prevent robberies than protection. For protection I have a firearm located somewhere in my house where only my husband and I know where it is. As for the children, they know how firearms work and know that they MUST stay out of the room when a firearm is present. I have instilled a healthy knowledge of what a working firearm can and will do when and if in the wrong hands.

Finally, the Second Amendment clearly states

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

You Canadians need to stop the bashing on J 9 and our Americas rites. I to support the 2nd.If you can't deal with it then don't look at this site.I have a room full of guns but you don't see me killing a human just animals to eat. Yes I might occasionaly fire in the air to scare of tresspassers but I don't shoot them.I been in the Armed forces protecting your butts and all you want to to is bash our way of living.I'm sorry but your Government needs a wake up call.I'm sorry if this offended anyone but that's how I feel.And J 9 Keep up the good work.

Rd68, thanks for being part of our military and protecting the lives of me and my children as well as the lives of many people around the world. You truly deserve all the thanks and praise you can get for putting your life on the line for people like us.