21 boat.. (or anyone else) the builder feels the crack is due to expansive soils and not the brick columns. I was told the footers were placed after the columns were put up and that is OK. I am also told that it is okay to have the columns on top of the concrete as long a footer is present (even though the two houses next to me have brick columns and they were done first and then concrete around them unlike mine). You have been a great help here are my questions:
1) I need to get a second opinion to have someone else look at these footers to see if they feel they were done right. My thought is that they may be there, but not a job well done and therefore are suspect and contributed to the large crack. Should I get another concrete guy out here to look at it or who it best to review it?
2) In your experience do you agree a brick column can be placed on concrete surface with out impacting the concrete if a footer was done under the brick column
3) Is a footer done after (digging under then pouring concrete) a normal building practice?

Thanks...

I just reread some of the old posts. 21boat said at one point "There is also a possibility that the floor was poured at 4" thick and it was dug out in the columns areas deeper and poured as a Monolith pour. ". So he already answersed my question.. for some reason the builder feels that corner one is a good footer, but sounds like it should have been wide outside the patio.. the center column is wide outside the column, but again.. who knows how deep it really is.. I just need to get an opinion of someone else to see if they agree or disagree with my builder. Always good to get a second opinion.. I know this is an old post, but still a problem I'm dealing with.. :(

Hi Scpok. The whole situation there is a bad building practice. Correct building practices is, if you have a concrete slab that's attached to a house, ( especially if there's masonry piers ) There needs to be a real footer. It was built like its only a sidewalk. This is what fouled up not wrapping the brain around the proper building practice and not treating it as a Porch. Doesn't matter weather the roof supports itself or not. It's a Porch not a sidewalk. The other problem here is on a new built home the ground HAS to be mechanically tamped as back fill was done where the porch was poured.

Even if the builder poured the porch as a monolith pour the footer under that brick Pier is not big enough to make a difference.. So that in itself combined with fresh backfill and brick weight and this is why you are in that position.

Also the proper way Always is to Build the brick Pier Separate for the simple reason when the Crete needs replaced in time the Pier maintains it location and a lot of work and money is saved. Add to that to Buy brick 20 years down the road to relay the Pier may no be made anymore OR will not Match. Even if it the mortar to relay it won't match the weathered mortar joints on the house. So hears Many reasons I say the proper building practice is the Piers HAS to be a solid free standing Pier.

Look up some good Crete finishers and they will also tell you the Pier should be on its own footer and not on top of the porch floor. A good mason will Also tell you the same thing.

(1) Yes
(2) Yes Crete finisher and mason
(3) Not exactly sure of the question. All footers are done before anything is built on top of it unless it's a monolith pour/ a Frost footer.

Wrap your head around this is a Porch not a side walk. And it was a raised porch a footer and block/brickwork would be laid on top of the footer then the floor poured.

Get 3 write up bids from a Crete contractor ans 3 from a mason contractor.

Keep posting here , We see it has a new post on our end..

Would it be better to get a structural engineer to look at this or would a normal home inspector be able to review and provide the feedback I need to get a good second opinion on this. I will also look up some other concrete and masons to see if I can get a quote and feedback from them. I need someone who would be willing to put something in writing for me they feel this was done wrong so I have something more than just my thoughts vs. the builder.

A structural engineered will be expensive and may look like overkill. They always have a "tweak" opinion. But we do need there expertises.

Check with the building codes first. Also check with the approved blueprints that the builder went by. Many times something like this is Not detailed in a house print and can get missed with what the township/city requirements are in detailing to approve the specks/print

A structure engineer is basically going to say the same thing I said.

Your biggest argument is the depth/width of the Crete under the pier. Since it freezes there that needs to be below freeze line since it "attached" to the structural and or used accordingly for roof overhang support.

This is another way to classify what the pier function is and put it in the category of needing a full below grade footer. It's a way of working it from the back door.

This takes out the equation of weather it's a wide enough clump of Crete to hold that end of the porch. So hears the attack.
1. Check prints on design specks and see if it was built accordingly
2. Check your warranty of the build
4. Check required depths for footers on a structural columns and piers at your local building codes for STRUCTURAL support. It vertical and attached to help support the porch ceiling. Or why have it...
4. Get 6 bids, 3 from a mason contractor, 3 from a concrete contractor along with a rough drawing on how its needs fixed and the scope of the work needing done to do make it right, Or a very detailed writ.
4. Engineers report
5. Attorney/small claims. Many times if you have paper proving the work was substandard one letter form an attorney works. But try to keep it more on a personal level.

Where is the warranty that supposed to kick in here. Another word of advice. Write a letter describing your problem and send it certified. This will get better attention of the seriousness here and the biggest thing is it will document the problem in writing and keep the hear say out of the picture. I actually request that on my warranties so I can address it properly and all is in sync A different punch list. I find my customers are happy to do it and already feel the builder cares..

Hope it goes well Let me Know how you make out...