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scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 06:49 PM

How can I tell if I really have footings under columns on a concrete front porch I have? The Columns are on top of the concrete so the footings should be under the concrete normal pad, right?

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:03 PM

The columns are brick and on top of the concrete patio. I have cracks in the patio and we think we have footings, but not sure. The concrete is 4" think so would a footing be under that?

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:17 PM

The columns support the covered patio. They normally are just wood, but we opted for brick. Attached is a pic

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:20 PM

Its impossible to tell if there is a footing there aside from breaking up the Crete and digging.

One sure sign there is a footing there is to see if you have expansion joints around that Pier. The floor floats and the footer doesn't

There is also a possibility that the floor was poured at 4" thick and it was dug out in the columns areas deeper and poured as a Monolith pour.

You can check to see if the column goes through the floor by grinding out the first joint to see if a separate pour was there and expansion joints weren't used. Aside from that the floor needs removed to dig around the column

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:23 PM

Your pic just showed up. No worries to check here just dig in the yard and see if there is a block wall under the piers, which they should be on a footer

Editing here instead of new post

Not sure what your Geo is for frost and freeze. I'm at 18" for a frost footer and 36" for a freeze footer. A freeze footer should be there if the columns are structrial or not. You don't want them to freeze and lift into the soffit and tear that up

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:29 PM

The columns are for sure on top of the concrete. I know I saw them placed after the concrete was poured. I did not see anything else done when they poured it besides place the 4" boards around it. Here's a pic of the fresh concrete.. does this prove or disprove footings?

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:33 PM

The floor could be poured over a footer and or block wall which is how that should have been built if it freezes there.

Now seeing the pic the roof is cantilevered which helps a lot here. But were still back to freeze lift and or sinking

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:35 PM

I know that last pic is bad.. these are zoomed in pics, but you can clearly see where the middle column would have been as opposed to the corner one. So it sounds like if I did down 6" (patio is about 4" thick) and then go under that would probably prove no footings.

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:35 PM

Yes

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:36 PM

I'm in Oklahoma.. it freezes here for sure :)

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:38 PM

Zippit.
I believe what you may see in the sinking here is the concrete slope for runoff which should be min 1/4" per lineal foot and it may be a compound runoff which would look at a certain angle sinking. Can't see a pic of how big the cracks are mentioned here and at what angels

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 07:43 PM

Scp dig down and I'm betting you haven't any footer there. Hope I'm wrong. Also check with the building inspector on the depth a footer needs to be in your geo. All but one column could and is considered a bearing point to carry the cantilever off that outside corner or at least it should at the width you have there. Again it up to the code officer to determine this. This looks like a new house what's the print show for there?

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:45 PM

21boat and zippit.. thanks for the quick feedback.. here is the crack.. concrete poured in late April 08.. crack current pic last month

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 07:51 PM

It is a new house.. working with builder on it. Quick inspection thought it has a footer, but I think perhaps concrete outside the footings may have been what was hit. Builder has been very good to me, but I think the previous super missed perhaps doing this the right way.

21boat · Jul 15, 2009, 08:08 PM

Here's another building tip Ive been using for years. I use 1/2" expansion joints along the house walls and then drill rebar into the brick. What this does is that area acts like a footer and yet it has room to expand and contract to help chase away to cracks. Think of it like a knuckle joint or how a bridge is built when you see the steel fingers going the bridge to the road in areas where the bridge expands and contracts more. The expansion gives room for movement and the rebar structurally hangs the Crete. It's a pinning effect. Now that I see the pic The corner column I mentioned on the corner is the structural link here. Zippit was spot on there. Good Eyes Zippit

scp_ok · Jul 15, 2009, 08:22 PM

21 boat / zippit.. good advice. The patio is 12 x 26 and being that big I expected some sort of cut or expansion joint, but they did not do that. I have the big crack (as shown) hairline from corner to middle post and a 3rd little one. If I can get this redone they I will talk more to understand how an expansion joint (or at least a cut) might be built into it. I know concrete cracks, but this seems to be bigger than that. Again builder has been good to me, just needed to advice from other to get another perspective.. thanks for all the feedback.. wish me luck.. I'll dig in the next couple days for sure

21boat · Jul 16, 2009, 03:46 AM

Hi zippit The rod poke is to find the drain field that is always wetter then the regular ground. Could work after a heavy spring rains. Or you hit some rocks and think footer. Could work here fresh backfill.. My brother in law lives in Oak and during the summer time the ground pulls away from the foundation an 1" or so.. Strange dirt.

21boat · Jul 16, 2009, 11:49 PM

I agree on the total re do. Bad building practices

scp_ok · Jul 23, 2009, 01:51 PM

Here's a pic of the corner. I don't think I have a footer at all. I can slide the shovel under the center of the column under the concrete. Not a lot, but just does not seem one is present.

21boat · Jul 23, 2009, 11:05 PM

What was done there was a bad attempt to Pour a monolith floor and footer at the same time. The part they missed was the Pier needed a wider footer to actually be a footer to spread the weight out and not use the floor to absorb/ what the footer should have carried. That's how the cracks showed up so quick, Its not a deep as I thought it would be, Its supposed to be below freeze. The shovel area is what the footer size should have been here.

A patio of that size at the least should have a frost footer under the front and sides, My job would have a full footer under it being where it sits