classyT,
I agree and it's as I said a true Christian as opposed to one who just claims to be one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I agree, though if someone claims to be a Christian as I define the term ("saved," in the terms of this thread) I tend to believe I should give them the benefit of the doubt since I'm not qualified to judge their hearts.

JESUS SAYD IN A NEW TESTAMENT, THAT FOR THOSE WHO CONTINUES TO LIVE PURPOSLY IN A SINFUL LIFESTYLE, NO MORE LEFT ANY COVERAGE FOR SINS, BUT A FEARFUL AWAITING OF THE FIERY JUDGEMENT... For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the full knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains in reserve any other sacrifice for sins... Hope,it helped you...

John 10:28-29 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 15

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:2 In the original Greek taken away is airo, which means “to raise up, elevate, lift up” (Strong’s Concordance). Grape farmers must lift the vines off the ground if they are to produce fruit. In verse 2, Jesus was saying anyone who abides in him, (a believer) will be lifted so that he can produce fruit. Those who do not abide in the branch (non-believers) will be thrown into the fire. (Verse 6)

I'm not an expert in Greek. But Airo, third meaning in the concordance used by the BLB says that it does mean:

3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off

a) to move from its place

b) to take off or away what is attached to anything

c) to remove

d) to carry off, carry away with one

e) to appropriate what is taken

f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force

g) to take and apply to any use

h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence

I) cause to cease
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

As I said, I'm not an expert in Greek, but I assume the folks who put together the King James were. And according to the context they chose to say:

John 15:2 (King James Version)

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

The NIV experts say the same;

John 15:2 (New International Version)

2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

John 15:2 (New American Standard Bible)

2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He [a]prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Are you a greater expert than they?

De Maria's response to this is correct. Airo has a very broad meaning according to its context, and in this one it pretty well has to mean "remove." The real question is, how do we reconcile this passage with the John 10 passage that saintjoan quoted. On the one hand we have

"No one can take them out of my hand, they have eternal life and will NEVER perish,"

And on the other hand we have

"if it doesn't abide in me it doesn't bear fruit, and it's removed."

So there's the conundrum. How do you reconcile the two? (That's an open question to anybody who wants to respond, by the way.)

John 15:1 says that the Father is the husbandman. It is the Father who prunes and cuts branches.

John 15

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:...

In addition, we know that a person can wilfully remove himself by negligence or by choosing to do evil:

Hebrews 2:2-4 (King James Version)

2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;

3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

John 15

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Yes, we know your view and the passages behind it. What about the other ones? You have not addressed them. That's what I'm asking you to do.

Check out Living Waters, the way of the master. Your boyfriend does not have the fruits of the spirit in which a TRUE repented child of God does... He may have been a FALSE CONVERT to start with, its too tiring to be good, and to change in the flesh WITHOUT the help of the spirit! Google - The way of the master. It's a gold mine of knowledge that may help you out :D

First of all, it is the FRUIT not fruits of the spirit. Second of all no one can say whether the person is truly the Lord's. But once I really am placed IN Christ, He in me... then I'm HID in God. And it has NOTHING in the world to do with my performance as a Christian and it has everything to do with HIS finished work. And that is all I have to say about that.

While I respect your belief, doesn't it absolve you from any bad behavior you may have had, or now have, or will have in the future?

No offense, but your position strikes me as "cheap grace", a kind of 21st century Madame Guyon.

That's the usual accusation, but it's built on a false premise. It assumes that one will convert in order to be able to get away with stuff sans consequences. But true conversion comes as a result of a change of attitude, a desire to turn one's life around. Will there be times of misbehavior? Downright badness? Of course. People are people. Temptation will come and we will succumb at times. But God's grace looks at the "big picture," if you will, and that's why it covers such times. There's a judgment for believers, too, and we don't actually know what it looks like. We do know it doesn't involve condemnation/hell/whatever, but that's as much as we know. There will be an accounting, for both believers and non-believers, so there really is no such thing as this "cheap grace."

"cheap grace"... hmmm.. interesting but absolutely false. If Grace is unmerited favor... and I can't earn it because I don't deserve it... then explain to me how I can keep it... when I can't EARN it.

When you really understand grace... the way the Lord Jesus died to give it freely to us all... it will produce the right behavior. So there isn't anything CHEAP about my Saviors grace. It would be CHEAP only if I could lose it.

I don't know anything about madame Guyon... ( shall Google it) but it is the same thing the Apostle Paul preached. So my position is the Bible's position... no strings attached. UNMERITED means just that. :)

It makes no such assumption. The "bad" behavior comes after. One "presumes" the grace of God (once saved, always saved). This leads to the believer acting out in ways no longer guided by traditional principles first laid down in the Ten Commandments.

Does every single person follow this path? Obviously not. But it is a danger, nonetheless. That's why I mentioned Madame Guyon who is the great exemplar of antinomianism.

Gods Word is sharper that a two edged sword
Hebrews 10:26-27, For if we wilfully sin after receiving the knowlage of the truth, there remains NO More Sacrifice for sin. But only a fearful expectation of judgement of a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
John 9:31 We know that God does NOT listen to SINNERS, he LISTENS to Godly people that do his will.
Job 35:13 Indeed, God does NOT listen to their empty plea, the Almighty pays NO attention to it.
Galatians 6:7 Do NOT be decived, God is NOT mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap!

GOD Bless all who listen to his Word and OBEY Him, AMEN.

I am not a expert in Greek. But James Strong was. He defines airo as follows:
1) to raise up, elevate, lift
1a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones
1b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
1c) to draw up: a fish
2) to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off
3a) to move from its place
3b) to take off or away what is attached to anything
3c) to remove
3d) to carry off, carry away with one
3e) to appropriate what is taken
3f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
3g) to take and apply to any use
3h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
3i) cause to cease
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.
It would appear that the concept of taking up or lifting is implied in all three definitions. The translators of the King James Bible did translate Airo as take away 32 times, lift 4 times, bear 3 times.
AV - take up 32, take away 25, take 25, away with 5, lift 4, bear 3, misc 8; 102 Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.

The word eternal means never ending. If one looses his salvation, then he never really had eternal life to begin with. He at best had temporary life.

My observation is somewhat beside the point, and it's aimed more at the administrators of this site. Do I read correctly that this question has been open since the year 2007 ? Or is that some kind of error ?

I do agree that the question itself is EXTREMELY important. But, almost FOUR YEARS for the same question?? What gives?? Am I missing something here?

I know that my personal rating on this site is very low. But I have asked a few questions that were also quite interesting and open too much possible discussion. But they were summarily CLOSED. For no apparent reason that I could fathom. What kind of rationale is at work here that governs this site ? Nothing that makes sense to me.

Your powers of observation do not deceive you that is indeed the case.

I don't think you are missing anything, although the OP hasn't been back since Feb 2007

I think that has already been explained to you on a number of occasions already.