Ask Me Help Desk - Seeking God

I do agree with some of what njab1 has posted. Especially about prayer and studying the Bible. And his reference to Zephaniah 2:3 is most excellent. But let me get back to Triund's question about "Jesus misinforming His disciples." Clearly (at least to me) Jesus did not misinform them. He was telling the truth, of course. God does not lie. He cannot lie. But He can withhold information. Jesus said "I and the father are one. If you have seen me, you have seen the father." That means whatever the father knows (the time of the end) Jesus knows also. No question at all about that. You cannot separate God from Jesus. They are one and the same. Based on that immutable fact we must conclude that "the son not knowing" (Mark 13:32) MUST refer to someone OTHER than Jesus. There is more evidence of that, but let's go back to the "misinforming" issue. Jesus deliberately withheld the time of His second coming because He wanted them to focus on the task of getting out the gospel (the Bible) as it was then understood. There are verses that show that quite a few disciples expected Jesus to set up a literal kingdom in Judea at that time. He wanted to completely disabuse them of that notion. His kingdom was coming at some future time yet indefinite FOR THEM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

We have been since the Resurrection.

With all due respect Wonder, we are in the time of Last Days. Now this period ends in 3 months, 2 years, 50 years, 1000 years, only God the Father knows. Things I am looking for are from Joel Rosenberg`s talks. 2nd Thessolonians chapter 2 talks about the Antichrist entering the Temple and descreting it and claiming himself to be God. Third Jewish Temple is not built yet. Another thing is that HIS name is still not reached to all on the earth, though missionaries are reaching to more and more people. There are other things too which tell us that we are in the slot of Last Days. But in spite of this calculation, I have not forgotten that whether HE comes first or calls me Home first, in either case I have to be ready to meet HIM.

Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triund

I have to be ready to meet HIM.

Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

I have to disagree about Revelation's usefulness, but its message is about perseverance, not some kind of secret way to be part of the "in" crowd. That said, John's epistles say in so many words that the "last days" began with Jesus' resurrection, since he says that he and the letters' recipients are in the "last days."

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order as they do arguing over this kind of nonsense, the world wouldn't have so many good reasons to laugh at us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwashbur

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order

That's what I do before 6 P.M.

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.

And false prophets have used all sorts of gimmicks and formulas to come up with a date for the end of the world, All were wrong. We'll see you here on the 22nd of May?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

You have a bit of a problem here, because the Hebrew calendar is lunar, not solar. So this particular day would come out different each year in our calendar. That's why to this day, Passover and Rosh Hashanah are on different dates every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

Another problem: our calendar is somewhere between 4 and 6 years off from the actual year of Jesus' birth, and hence is going to be that far off from the purported date of the flood. So by this reckoning, the events Mr. Camping is expecting should have already happened, around 3-5 years ago.

So as WG said, we'll see you here on May 22. Just do yourself a favor and don't give up on God when it doesn't happen; see my sig line.

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

We don't actually know what year Jesus was born. If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it as long as it' s based on something concrete, like an archaeological find, and not the biblical eisegesis of some self-appointed prophet.

And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Keep digging the hole deeper, this is getting interesting.

Quote:

dwashbur: And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

Oops. Definitely a bit of cepahlic flatus there. I stand corrected.

Fr_Chuck

Quote:

First God is not hiding, he is right there...

I disagree. And I can show from the Bible that God does indeed hide from us in various ways and at various times. And a big point is... If He were "right there" as you claim,. then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?

"Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

Quote:

Quoting HeadStrongBoy: then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ? "Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?

[1] First I know that the Bibles we normally read are mere translations. So the word seek in English most likely has other possible meanings (and shades of meaning) that have not been chosen by the translators. Ever hear the phrase "lost in translation" ?
[2] Yes, on some LEVEL God is absolutely hiding from the whole human race. It's because of a little thing, not very important really... sin. Remember sin ? We all have it. Even the most holy born again Christian still has to struggle with his (or her) sin nature. There's no getting away from it. Of course we can delude ourselves. Many people today do not even consider the possibility that sin is real. It' not popular.

So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?

NEVER would I think that!

Quote:

So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

WG

Quote:

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.

Thanks to God's love and care, I emotionally and physically survived severe anemia and breast cancer during the past year. No imagination here!

Quote:

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.

Why are you dissing me?

That "icon" (it's actually called an avatar) is a reminder of Thomas Jefferson, my beloved cat who died two years ago. My "signature," visible on the old skin, is "Rest in peace, Thomas Jefferson -- July 4, 1994-March 5, 2009."

This thread at first made me intrigued and then I got sad. So sad.

I have always known God, though I have lost touch from time to time (selfish teen, selfish times as an adult) but I always want to improve myself. When I feel like I am missing God, it's because I have been selfish, I have been lazy. There has never been a moment, regardless of how wicked I had been, that I couldn't dig deep and ask if God could hear me. He always hears me, no matter how small I am. That's comforting if nothing else.

Why all the drama over the day of reckoning? When it happens, it will happen. Whether I'm judged in life or in the afterlife, I'm going to be judged. I have so many issues with my own selfishness and worldly obsessions that I seriously just don't have the time to preach to everyone else about what the bible does and doesn't say (dang it more selfishness).

My pastor once told me when I was struggling with my judging ways that "sin should be a mirror that we use to measure ourselves, not a spotlight that we shine on others."

I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God. As long as they don't stand in the way of someone else's journey, what right have I to stop them? I don't know that my version of things is going to get me the golden ticket, but I sure do pray it will!

WG

Quote:

Why are you dissing me?

I thought you could handle it. Yesterday you showed extraordinary spiritual strength by quoting all those verses about how salvation is NOT OSAS. And you seemed to accept my compliment about how much better you are with the Bible than I am.

What happened today ? Today you're all vulnerable and hurt?? What happened to the extraordinary fortitude you showed testerday ? :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

I thought you could handle it.

I see. The thing is, the dissing reflects on you more than on me. I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

WG

Quote:

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)

But here's more about God hiding, for the original posting of the question about seeking God. God in His true nature is so glorious and so majestic that unprepared sinners cannot be in His presence without being destroyed. When Moses asked to see God's glory, God had to hide Moses in the cleft of a rock. Then YHWH passed by and allowed Moses to see just the edge of His glory. We are still part of that generation of wickedness that cannot have total and complete fellowship with the fullness of God's glory. Only after we've been born again AND have also received our new eternal spiritual bodies in the rapture, THEN and only then will God appear to us in His full glory. Until that day, much of God remains hidden to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG
I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)

And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today. :(

WG

Quote:

I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

You're only confirming my original observation about the cat and mouse scenario.

WG

Quote:

And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today

I acknowledge the importance of PROTOCOL !

Allow me to observe that we seem to be going in different directions. There is a huge distinction between seeing God face to face and having knowledge about Him gained from Bible study and prayer.

Though with the often careless and imprecise way we utilize language (and words) the one (face to face) could be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.

And the other (Bible knowledge) can also be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.

However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.

O.K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.

Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

WG

Quote:

Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier (anemia, cancer) I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings, including healing their illnesses, that God very generously gives to many, many people. Even to those He has no intention of saving.

However, all of that in my opinion, should not be considered as part of God's gospel of salvation, which is completely spiritual.

The Church should be viewed more like a hospital than a club. Welcome anyone who is sick, we are not the doctors but we know Him. We cannot judged because we have not been judged... but forgiven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier, I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings

I mentioned physical, but also mentioned emotional, i.e. spiritual.

God is a very constant Presence in my life, and I see His face in all the faces I encounter
Each day.

(I see "someone," perhaps a very hurt and vulnerable someone? NOT! taught you how to use colors in the text.)

Southamerica

Quote:

I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God.

Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread... I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.

Quote:

The Church should... Welcome anyone who is sick,

There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

southamerica

Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread...I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.

There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek.

My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

WG

Quote:

God is a very constant Presence in my life

Nice!!

Your sentence which I have quoted above is, to me, a simple statement of absolute fact. In other words, like gravity, God is present everyplace He chooses to be. Theologians call that omnipresent. But there I would draw a very sharp line. His presence or His absence has nothing whatever to do with my perception of it, or how I feel about it. It simply is. By no stretch of the imagination (or anything else) does that now mean that I have found God because I was seeking Him. The Bible describes God as being full of eyes, in Ezekiel. And the Bible describes the area surrounding His throne as a sea of glass, in Revelation. Those two metaphors indicate that God sees everything in the universe simultaneously and clearly. A totally mind boggling concept to us humans. But it hints that He is also present, or at least projects His power everywhere at the same time. He is "upholding all things by the word of His power." (Hebrews 1:3) Even if He does not allow us to be particularly intimate with His glory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine.

That sounds very much like the Pharisees of the NT. God has already given us salvation. What God wants now is for us to desire and provide for the wellbeing and care of "the least of these" (Matt. 25:40). That's what Jesus said is the Second Greatest Commandment: Love others. Obeying that commandment is our thank-you to God for His love and grace in saving us from eternal death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

feel

I may end up shooting myself for having showed you how to do that.

Quote:

I have found God because I was seeking Him.

We don't find God; He finds us.

Quote:

I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek. My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

I guess I'll take my chances :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

Whew! The LCMS qualifies!! Yay!!

What about Matt. 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"?

WG

Quote:

We don't find God; He finds us.

Exactly!!

But one of the rules of this site is that as long as we are on a thread that stems from a question, we should make every reasonable effort to continue to service that original question. All other comments and general conversation belongs in an area called Member Dicussions board.

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it is God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.

Our seeking God is part of Sanctification. I said we seek God in the faces of all those around us, ministering to the least among us.