I believe in a God, after all I'm a deist. But I don't have a problem with any of the atheists here. They have all shown themselves to be quite intelligent. Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians.

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tatertot disagrees:?? What is the relevance and/or application for this statement?

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The point is that the fact that we don't observe some phenomenon is, in itself, reason to believe that the phenomenon does not exist.

Like NeedKarma and others are pointing out. There is as much evidence for God as there is for a teapot orbiting around the Earth or a tiny talking elephant on the desk in front of you. Yet 2 of these things are ridiculous to you, and one you take as absolute truth. Does that not seem a little illogical?

Don't get me wrong, God is an incredibly powerful idea and a wonder of human ingenuity to come up with such a being to explain the world around us. But God's domain is being pushed further back by science and evidence.

We may never know what caused the big bang, maybe the idea of God will be forever safe there. Part of me hopes so, God is one of mankind's greatest inventions, on par with the theory of evolution and general relativity, just in a different environment and time.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Your argument still violates basic logic. Look at your first sentence:



You contend one cannot make an absolute statement (of any kind) unless they are all-knowing. Yet you say god exists, right? How can you make such an absolute statement unless you are all knowing? So I propose your initial statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement unless they are all knowing" is a false statement. If, by chance, you do not personally believe beyond all doubt (the Christian) god exists, then you are not a Christian, and this entire argument is moot. But I'm assuming you consider yourself a Christian.

Do a google search for "The square of oppositions"; your statement is a "E" statement, and it is FALSE; therefore, my statement, "one can make an absolute statement without being all knowing" is the "A" statement - it must be true.

According to your logic, no one can ever assert an absolute, because none of us are all-knowing. You cannot deny the existence of Zeus, or the invisible, odorless, tasteless, silent pink unicorn which follows your every move. In the same token, you cannot CONFIRM the existence of anything - because you are not all-knowing.

There's also a violation in logic of god being both omnipotent and omniscient, but I pointed that out in another thread.

Beyond all of that, by saying you do not believe in Zeus because you don't know for sure if he exists indicates you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY he can exist. So you admit there is the possibility another god exists. That violates your theology. Bad Christian, BAD!

So, are you a bad Christian who acknowledges there could be other gods, or have you made a flawed logical argument?

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Lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable.. lol . YOu should think before you write though. Of course we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowledge of. I can make an absolute statement right now that I am NOT wearing red shoes. That is an absolute statement and I don't need to have all knowledge of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All I have to do is look at my feet. It's a fact I am not wearing red shoes. I can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, I don't have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowledge of. I have all knowledge of my sandwich I can tell you that.. and I can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowledge you don't possess could have evidence that God exisist.

And for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian... lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as their god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do I beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? Most certainly not.. So I don't know if Zeus exists and therefore I don't believe in him or worship him. But I do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everything about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day I was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" I have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absence of evidence.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exodus 20:2-4 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
Exodus 23:13
“And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth.
Exodus 23:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 23 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 5:7
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deuteronomy 5:6-8 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 6:14
You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you
Deuteronomy 6:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 7:4
For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly.
Deuteronomy 7:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 8:19
Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the LORD your God, and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
Deuteronomy 8:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 8 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 11:16
Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
Deuteronomy 11:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)

The Bible does not deny the existence of other gods. The LORD God says they are lesser gods that we are not to worship. These include created gods and also the things we place as idols in our heart--idols can be money, intelligence, our arguments and beliefs we are unwilling to submit to the LORD God, etc. Christianity does not deny their existence, just the worship of them.

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Originally Posted by tatertot

lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.

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Originally Posted by tatertot

lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.

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No matter what you say you do not "know" that God exists. You believe based on your personal experience that there is a God. I believe in a God, but I don't "know" there is one. You can "see" that you're not wearing red shoes, or you can "see" that is there is no cheese on your sandwich, but you cannot see God.

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Originally Posted by deist

I believe in a God, after all I'm a deist. But I don't have a problem with any of the atheists here. They have all shown themselves to be quite intelligent. Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians.

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Diest that is the dumbest thing I have heard you say... lol Seriosly sorry to says so but that is the most retarded thing I have heard in a long time. You think Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians... I think you need to find a dictionary and revise the meanings of deist and athiests. They are comple opposites. A diest believes there is a God and Atheist believe there is NO God. So what do you have incommon?? A diest and a Christian both believe there is a god there for they have something in common. Come on people if you are going to argue your points you guys need to make rational intelligent points. Seriously I came one here to discuss religious beliefs and now I am have to teach people first grade English. What does a diest have in common with an atheist? Really I am curious... lol oh I will tell you what you have incommon.. . You both have hatred toward Christians just like the rest of the "world". You can tollerate all religions large and small as long as they are not christians. I am not moved nor surprised because Christ warned us many years ago that just as he was hated so will we be. So your hatred towards christians further cements my belief in Christ because he was soooo right. People can say Buddha Krishna Dali lama and no one cares but the moment you say Jesus controversy hatred venom starts to fly. That's fine, I isn't mad at you diest. I am still praying for you :)

I think we need a troll avatar pronto.

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

The point is that the fact that we don't observe some phenomenon is, in itself, reason to believe that the phenomenon does not exist.

Like NeedKarma and others are pointing out. There is as much evidence for God as there is for a teapot orbiting around the Earth or a tiny talking elephant on the desk in front of you. Yet 2 of these things are ridiculous to you, and one you take as absolute truth. Does that not seem a little illogical?

Don't get me wrong, God is an incredibly powerful idea and a wonder of human ingenuity to come up with such a being to explain the world around us. But God's domain is being pushed further back by science and evidence.

We may never know what caused the big bang, maybe the idea of God will be forever safe there. Part of me hopes so, God is one of mankind's greatest inventions, on par with the theory of evolution and general relativity, just in a different environment and time.

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I can tell you with Certainty that God exists because he has revealed himself to me and has changed my life and I speak to him every day. And for you to prove that he has NOT revealed himself to me you would have to know everything about me my thoughts will and emotions and you would have to have been with me from the day I was born. You can not prove to me that God does not exist because you don't even know a fraction of a % of all the knowledge there is to know in the universe and beyond.

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Originally Posted by deist

No matter what you say you do not "know" that God exists. You believe based on your personal experience that there is a God. I believe in a God, but I don't "know" there is one. You can "see" that you're not wearing red shoes, or you can "see" that is there is no cheese on your sandwich, but you cannot see God.

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I "know" that God exists. You know, you really should stop trying to convert people to your way of thinking by putting "contradictons" and "false prophecies" on here and concentrate more on your relationship with God. By your statement it seems to me that you are weak in your faith. That's what having faith is deist. It's "knowing" what you believe in is true and real. Everyone can know God exists just as I do if they would only allow themselves to. I don't have to have proof the whole world can see to know God exists. The proof God has given me is enough to know. Also, "seeing" is not the only way to know something exists. You can't "see" a headache, but you "know" when you have one.

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Originally Posted by tatertot

Diest that is the dumbest thing i have heard you say...lol Seriosly sorry to says so but that is the most retarded thing i have heard in a long time. You think Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians...lol You didnt to do well on your SAT's did you?
I think you need to find a dictionary and revise the meanings of deist and athiests. they are comple opposites. A diest believes there is a God and Atheist believe there is NO God. so what do you have incommon??? A diest and a Christian both believe there is a god there for they have something in commom. Come on people if you are going to argue your points you guys need to make rational inteligent points. Seriously i came one here to discuss religious beliefs and now i am have to teach people first grade English. what does a diest have in common with an athiest?? really i am curious...lol oh i will tell you what you have incommon. ..You both have hatred toward Christians just like the rest of the "world". You can tollerate all religions large and small as long as they are not christians. I am not moved nor surprised because Christ warned us many years ago that just as he was hated so will we be. So your hatred towards christians further cements my belief in Christ because he was soooo right. people can say buddah Krishna Dali lama and no one cares but the moment you say Jesus controversy hatred venom starts to fly. Thats fine, i aint mad at ya diest. I am still praying for you :)

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I would rather not have someone who calls me retarded to pray for me. What do atheists & deists have in common ? They both place reason above faith. They both believe science over religion. They both believe in evolution. So what that I believe in God & they don't ? God doesn't mind. If I could ever be persuaded to accept Jesus as my savior, a christian such as you with your hostile attidude certainly couldn't do it. You give the christian god a bad name.

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Originally Posted by tatertot

lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.

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tatertot, you've made another mistake. I am not trying to prove to you god doesn't exist. I'm trying to prove to you that your statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement without having all knowledge in the universe" is wrong. Believe in god all you want, it doesn't bother me any. You're still missing the point and do not understand the flaw in your logic (even though you acknowledged in in your shoe statement). Take a logic class and maybe you'll get it. I'm not explaining it to you anymore.

I'd point out to you how you are fundamentally wrong about atheism being a religion, but I think you are a troll, and I'm done indulging you. Think whatever you want, write whatever you want, I'm not going to bother responding to you any longer.

>Thread Closed<
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