We all know that pride is a sin, but is it okay to be proud of your faith,or your church? Or is this just another form of super-pious hypocrisy?
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We all know that pride is a sin, but is it okay to be proud of your faith,or your church? Or is this just another form of super-pious hypocrisy?
Absolutely not! It is an honor to be a Christian. You are a child of God and brother of Jesus Christ. I couldn't think of anything more to be proud of.
You should just be one, let your actions show what you are. Christianity is a life style, more than a relgion.
And of course pride in ones country, pride in the work we do, are all possitive things.
Hi, belovedgift!
Where did you get the idea that being proud of something you are might be bad, please?
Thanks!
I think your question is an honest and fair one to ask.
It definitely is thought-provoking. Here are some of my thoughts. I'd be interested in hearing yours.
First off, on the surface it seems like being proud to be a Christian would be appropriate. But as I think about it, I'm not sure it is. For one, being a Christian is like admitting that I am a loser. What is a Christian anyway but a sinner. A Christian is someone who by the mercy of God has had his sins forgiven. A Christian is someone who is damnable because of his moral unworthiness but has been met with mercy from God because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Moving from that point, if I survey the world around me: my street, my town/city, my country, etc. I find other Christians from other persuasions and with different backgrounds who are ultimately in pursuit of the same mercy and grace; only their journey has taken them via different experiences and they have been brought up in their faith is different communities, etc. But if the confident expectation of people who consider themselves Christians is that God will be merciful to them and grant them eternal life, what is it that they are to be proud of in their religious tradition or religious community? Aren't they just as morally unworthy and deserving of condemnation as the rest of us?
If I understand Paul correctly when he says "God forbid I should boast save in the cross of Jesus Christ", I understand him to be saying that my only boast in life ought to be that the gospel of Jesus Christ has freed me from the condemnation and destruction that obedience to this world brings. But to boast of such a thing implies a rather keen understanding that I have much to be delivered from. To boast in man-made institutions and religious traditions is to resort back to the kinds of things that inhibit real spirituality and truth... things that bring people no closer to God but are an impediment to who we really are what our real problem is.
Those are my thoughts. What is your perspective, belovedgift?
Seven deadly sins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
Originally Posted by Clough
Quote:
In almost every list Pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris, is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and indeed the ultimate source from which the others arise.
It depends on how you interpret the word "pride" and what you do with this pride.
If you're thinking of it as more to do with self confidence (instead of arrogance), it doesn't seem wrong to me. As far as I know, God doesn't make a sin out of awareness of one's identity and being able to stand up for yourself.
The Seven Sins seem to use the word "pride" in reference to arrogance. This means it's only a problem if you rub your faith in someone else's face by saying something like "I'm Christian and I'm better than you!" or forcefully imposing your own moral values upon another.
Best to refer back to the Gospels and Jesus' teachings regarding humility and judgment.
(I'm not Christian but there are many of them in my family, some of which are pastors.)
Hello b:Quote:
Originally Posted by belovedgift
I don't know. On the one hand, apparently there's some agreement between Christians that pride is a sin. Then, without missing a beat, you ask if pride is OK.
I can understand your confusion, though. It looks like ALL the people who are party to that agreement with you, think it's OK too.
I'll leave the judgments to you.
excon
Like NomNom said, there's pride and there's pride. The good kind of pride is the one you are reaching for. I'd probably search for a synonym, since the word "pride" can so easily be misunderstood.
I agree, it's a matter of definition and interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The answer to these questions can be quoted from the written Word of God. One that would boast of his own righteousness and faith in Jesus Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by belovedgift
Romans 3:2526 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Here is your answer, by the law of faith boasting your love in Christ Jesus is permitted.
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
However this is not boasting in pride of denomination, or praise in man. This is praise, and pride held for our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST in the ONE FAITH.
Eph. 4:4-5-6
If you are just happy to be a christian, than no. If you are proud to be a christian because you think it makes you better than anybody else who is not a christian, than yes.
I think you have to ask what are you proud aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by belovedgift
That your sin was enough for Jesus to die to cover it up, not a thing to be proud of
That you have been chosen by God to spend eternity with him along with every other human being
That you made a decision to follow Christ
That you have been shown the only way to God and salvation
or are you proud that all those sinners outside the doors of your church will be excluded from salvation
Better not to be proud of religion, it is as you say hypocrisy
belovedgift,
To my way of thinking pride does go before the fall, but that is extreme pride with arrogance.
Actually a Christian should be humbly proud (Yes I know that is an oxymoron) but I think you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.
Live the humble Christian lifestyle.
Let your light shine and give the Glory to God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I think that it depends on what you're proud of. If you're proud because you believe in your faith, you enjoy your faith, you feel comfortable in your faith, then fine.
If you're proud because you think that your faith is the only true faith and everyone else is wrong but you have the wisdom to see the "truth", then no.
I am proud to be a Deist, not because I think it's the only way, but because it makes sense to me and I've finally found something, after many years of searching, that does.
I'm not proud because I feel like I'm in an exclusive club, because I'm not. I'm not proud because I think my faith is the best. I'm not proud because so many others agree with me. I'm just proud to have found a path that I can follow.
So, what is your pride based on? I think that is the main question.
Altenweg,
Again you have made some good points.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
belovedgift,
As a Christian, we should never get over the fact that we are saved and we should rejoice in what Jesus has done for us. We should be joyful but to be honest salvation is of the Lord. If we are given any wisdom in the Bible it is because the Holy Spirit has enlightened us. If we attend a bible believing church that teaches christian truth... praise JESUS.
Christianty is ALL about Christ anyway.
PRIDE really is all about self! Pride is exalting self. It is a protecting of self. Pride is commitment to self. It is building up ourSELVES in our own eyes or in the eyes of others. Pride is an excessive belief in one's superiority and worth!
AND as a Christian who recognizes we are sinful, wicked and headed to a hopeless eternity separated from God without the Lord Jesus Christ. I just don't see what there is to be proud of.
Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, faithfulness, kindness and self control are what Christians are called to produce in their lives. I don't see any room for PRIDE!!
I agree with NomNom - recognize that the Bible is ancient and our use of words has changed, on top of the fact that it wasn't written in English so some things are lost in translation to some degree.
My understanding as a Catholic that "pride" in this context refers to an air of superiority, arrogance, putting oneself above others and before God.
Be proud to be a child of God. It's something to be proud of. Just knowing there is a place called heaven awaiting those who are Christians is reason to rejoice.
I'm not proud of the way I act sometimes, because I sin daily and make a lot of mistakes. But I am very proud to be a Christian.
It doesn't mean you're pious if you honor the Lord.
I think it's great that you can be proud of your beliefs Kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitkat22
I too am proud of mine, but not in the same way. I'm proud that I stand up for what I believe in. I'm proud that I'm a good person. I'm proud that I'm a good mother, and a good wife and friend.
I'm not a Christian, but I still believe that if there's a heaven, I'll be accepted. I don't think being a Christian has anything to do with whether you're worthy of heaven.
I guess I'm most proud of the fact that I don't judge anyone based on their religious beliefs. I have friends that are Jewish, Lutheran, Atheist, Wiccan, Deist, Christian, you name it. They're all good people that just happen to believe different things, and they're just as committed to their beliefs then the Christians I know.
I think that when push comes to shove, God won't care which church you went to, or what religion you practiced. He'll judge on how you lived your life. If there is a God that is. ;)
Perfect way to get to the root of it Alty... it depends on what we base our pride on. Therefore, I would RATHER say, I am blessed, privileged and honored to be a Christian. ( and the same thing goes for how I feel about being an American!) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I'm hopelessly curious: what is it that makes you "not a Christian"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
And I would say that I'm happy with my beliefs. I'm not blessed with them, nor am I privileged or honored to be a Deist. That's just my belief. Nor am I blessed, privileged or honored to be a German. I'm happy with my culture, but other people have just as much right to feel good about their heritage. After all, I didn't choose where I was born any more then you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I don't know if I'm saying this right. I don't mean that what you said was wrong, but it can be construed as "pride" or "boasting". It almost sounds like "I'm a Christian and an American, and I'm more blessed, more privileged and more honored then you because of it". I'm sure that's not what you meant, and you have a right to feel good about who and what you are, but so does everyone else. Again, this is not coming out the way I'm intending. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. :o
To address the original question;
Whenever we boast about a belief, it can get sticky. To say that you're proud to be Christian, even if it's not meant in a bad way, seems to insinuate that you have a reason to be proud.
To me pride is when you've accomplished something. To be proud is to state "I have done something you haven't. I have accomplished something great". Pride in religion, it doesn't mix. What do you have to be proud of? You haven't accomplished anything great, you just chose a belief.
I wish I could make my thoughts clearer. I just think that pride about something you haven't accomplished, something you chose, is a way to say to others "I'm better then you because of my choice".
The fact that I'm not a Christian. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
I don't believe in church. I don't believe in a God that intervenes. I don't believe that the bible is the "word of God".
The closest description for my beliefs is Deism.
lots of ways to define "pride"... or any other word, for that matter...
is it a sin to love another person? What if that person is married? What if you are sleeping with them? Et cetera...
so... I think if one is christian, one must really base their actions on the teachings of Christ... so... is "pride" knowing your faith has guided you and others to doing the hard work of social justice that resounds through the gospels... or is "pride" a feeling good because you want good for others... or what?
getting a rush because you know you are doing the Right Thing... its normal, physiological, and I don't think it's a sin...
one of the greatest "christians" I know was Gandhi... who lived Christ's gospel to the t... effective, confrontive nonviolence to change the world... I don't care that my church doesn't see mr m.g. as a christian... he lived the live Christ called us to live...
so... if your church is really fulfilling the call for social justice and that makes your chest swell... k... welcome to being human. Mortal. It happens.
being content for long, however, rarely solves the problems of the world.
I do understand what you're saying KP, and I agree. Wait for the but. ;)
To me, pride is something you feel when you've accomplished something. I'm proud of my kids, because they're good people, and they've accomplished things. Jared has ADD, but he does his best every day, he strives to learn, to do his best, he's a good kid, with a good heart. I'm so proud of that. Sydney is a loving, caring, wonderful little girl. I like to think I had something to do with that, so she makes me proud.
To be proud of a choice, to me that's boasting.
If I said that I'm proud that I own a house, to me, that would be a slap in the face to all the people that don't. It's implying that I've somehow accomplished something they haven't.
Again, I don't think I'm making my thoughts very clear. For that I do apologize.
A final thought. I don't think pride is the right choice. Maybe, "I'm happy to be Christian, or, I'm content with my beliefs". The word pride just implies that you have something to be proud of. Unless you're God, what did you do that would make you proud of Christianity?
Go ahead, throw rocks. I'll duck. ;)
Again... its how you define it... and not on paper... how you live "pride"...
After all... its just dumb human imperfect words to imperfectly explain a feeling that is hard to explain concisely.
So...
I'm proud when my son amazes me with some new talent... I'm proud when the little stincker doesn't p@ss his pants 'cause dirt is more interesting than hygiene...
Point is this... I don't have to stretch far to find actions among christians that are the complete opposite of anything to be proud about...
...
So...
If your child or your family or your church does something Really Good... it is human and natural to feel pride in that accomplishment... now... ride that too long and I think its short sighted at best.
Banner waving is not all about honoring those who did the dirty work... its sometimes to call attention to those in need... and my experience is just that... those who feel a calling to do the hard, hard work we are called to do... well, pride isn't necessarily a dirty word... it when it is wielded against others that it gets warped and twisted...
I am proud of my son. He is naughty and good. Fearless and respectful. The joy I have in knowing I have some part in molding him is real, honest, and without pretense... if that feeling I feel... knowing how I've molded this child... keeps me outside heaven's gate.
Well... then OK.
I can deal with that I guess.
I agree KP.
Like I said in my other posts, I know what I want to say, but I'm having a hard time making it clear in my posts. Bear with me?
I agree with you. That's all I really need to say. :)
If the reasons for pride are as you stated, then pride is not a bad choice of word. It is only a word. I do understand that. I was taught that pride is something you earn, not something that is a given. If that makes any sense. ;)
If your church, your kids, you, are doing things that make you proud, then pride isn't wrong.
I do have to do the but. But, if you're only proud because of your choice, even if you don't do anything to be proud of, then no, pride is not okay. You can only be proud if you've done something to be proud of.
I'll bow out now. Being on the religious forum gives me a headache. ;)
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
More mud slung here than at a moster jam truck show with bikini babes fighting for takedown points...
Sad but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by kp2171
Everyone has an opinion, and everyone has the right to theirs, but in the religious forums it seems that you're burned at the stake should you disagree with anyone.
Chalk it up to boredom. Not much going on here lately, so I popped in, said nothing while using a lot of words, and now I'm popping out again.
So carry on everyone. Agree to disagree, which is the norm in this forum. ;)
Lets bump it forward...
You are wrong because you believe in your particular denominations teachings.
No, you are wrong because you are wrong.
Well you are wrong because you rely on others to tell you what is right and wrong, and their opinions are wrong most of the time.
Well, you are wrong because My Holy Denominations trumps yours 'cause it sez so and I believe it.
...
*sigh*
...
Am I proud my son goes to choir practice and has good Sunday school attendance? I guess. But not really. It doesn't echo very far from my own personal validation...
k.
Tired and done.
Will unsubscribe when this becomes too ugly to watch... tick... tick... tick...
?? What on earth did you just say? I couldn't really understand what your point was because it seems like you make one statement and then retract it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kp2171
Yes I didn't understand KP comments either.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakester
What are your thoughts on Jesus?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
The original question was "Is it a sin to be proud of the fact that you are a Christian?" Also, it was posted in the Christianity forum topic area. So, to me those two facts would indicate that it was directed at and for Christians to answer.
However, then in the body of the original post is stated, "is it okay to be proud of your faith, or your church?"
That, to me, would indicate that the original question was also directed at those that might have some other kind of belief and/or faith.
Just the way that things were worded in the original question and post seems to have caused some confusion here.
If the way that I read things was a misinterpretation as to the original intent of this thread, then I do apologize.
Thanks!
Jesus is the name of a character in a book that was written by a lot of different men. It's an interesting read, a best seller. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Sorry... that was me mimicking the talk that sometimes dominates the religious threads and drives me mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakester
That "bump it forward" mismash of nonsense, in my opinion, happens over and over and over on too many threads with topics relevant for discussion...
Inside jokes are even less funny when the only person getting it is the person saying it.
Real or fictional?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Sin Of Pride - Preoccupation With Self
The sin of pride is a preoccupation with self. It is thus very fitting that the middle letter in the word is "i." Pride is all about "me, myself, and I." So even as the word "pride" is centered upon an "i," the sin itself is also centered upon "I." We read of Lucifer's fall, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit."8 Satan's enmity against God began with "I". And so it is with us. If you are preoccupied with yourself, you are suffering from the sin of pride.
One way to determine whether you are preoccupied with yourself is to evaluate your motives. Take the pursuit knowledge for example. If you study hard because that's what the Lord wants you to do and you're being obedient to Him, that's good. That's obedience to God. Or if you study hard because you want to become a teacher so that you can edify others and help them to grow, that's good too. That's love for others. But if you study hard solely to amass knowledge for yourself, just so you can say that you know more than everyone else, that's bad! Your focus is upon yourself and your own glory. That's preoccupation with self. That's pride. And if this is the case for you, not only are you already suffering from pride, you're setting yourself up to be totally consumed by it! The Apostle Paul wasn't joking when he said, "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies."9 And anyone who is ever been there will tell you, knowledge for the wrong reasons (i.e. personal glory) will lead to a proud heart and enmity against God.
When god said that pride was a sin, I believe there are 2 different kinds.
One of which he was talking about, being so full of pride, that its no longer about your religion, its about 'how good do I look to my friends and family or strangers'
Being proud that you have god and jesus in your heart is a good thing. But don't let it fill you with so much pride that you start believing you are better than others.
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