In general, who are more tolerant of differing religious views--Protestants or Catholics?
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In general, who are more tolerant of differing religious views--Protestants or Catholics?
That's really a hard question to answer as tolerane is based on person to person. However, if I was forced to give an answer, I would say protestatns because they diverted off the catholic religion so in my understanding would be the most tolerant to a different religion.
You can't put all Protestants in the same boat.
You have some such as Anglican who for example accept almost everyone and everything
And you have penticostals who don't even accept other Protestants as valid Christians and will doom to hell anyone that is immoral.
Though I have personally known relatively few Protestants -- being raised a Catholic myself, I am somewhat more acquainted with things from that end. I have a few Catholic friends -- most are not very tolerant of my beliefs. Generally, we rarely discuss them. :)
I have a good friend who is married to a former Catholic nun. Though they'd known me for some years, apparently, in that time he had failed to ever mention to her that I practice Buddhism. The first time she came to my home, upon looking into my bedroom and seeing all the Buddhist iconography and statuary -- she quickly made the sign of the cross a few times before hurrying from the doorway with a somewhat disconcerted look. Though she had composed herself within minutes.
Though he has made subtle attempts to perhaps "convert" me over the years, he has for the most part since given up, and agreed to let things be, somewhat respecting my choices. :)
Since Vatican II the Roman Catholic Church has positively fostered tolerance of other faiths and denominations almost as an article of faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
The most intolerant Christians are found at the right edge of the evangelical movement, and the intolerance of many of these is positively unbiblical and pathological.
M:)RGANITE
Some religious tolerance is institutional. As Pere Chuck says, most Protestants, especially those in the middle of the road Anglican Communion, are extremely tolerant, but those at the right edge of the evangelical movement are pathologically intolerant and volubly so. Most of the hate ministries come from that stable (which is not the stable in which Jesus was born!).Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzkid89
Roman Catholicism, in contrast, since VII, has become increasingly tolerant of other faiths and denominations in ways that some Pentecostalists and some Baptists will never be able to approach.
I point you towards the work of Jack Chick as a prime example of a spiritually sick and socially disabled 'christian.'
His basic message is that if you do not walk the "Chick Way," then you are going straight to Hell. Chick even condemns other Christians who do not aubscribe to his twisted thinking and scriptural distortions and denioes that they are Christians at all. He greatly errs, not knowing the scriptures.
M:)RGANITE
Jesus - not Chick - is the Way, the Truth, and the Light.
Religions with more open views and broader minds tolerate differing religieous views, unlike some other religions who I dare not mention!Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Im not afraid of anything or anyone morganite!!
LOL why do u say that I'm a republican right winger? :D
But don't tell me that Islam religion i.e muslims are torlerant to religions such as Christian, Protestants and / or Catholics..?
I respect their choice of worship but that's it.
I think it really depends on the person and how open they are to people themselves, its all about respect for another person's choice. We may not like who/what they worship, celebrate or the customs, but we should at least respect it as their choice.
Right... and you can't put all Catholics in it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
I know extremes in both groups: Catholics and Protestants who are not only tolerant of each other - but who truly recognize that they are members of one faith.. . so more than just tolerance, but full acceptance...
There are lots of good groups out there like this
... but on the other hand there are sad examples of the opposite end of the spectrum on both sides too...
Krs, could this be a baby out with the bath water here? I believe that judging an entire faith on a few extreme branches of it just as others do of Christianity is not only not wise but not spiritually fit. For those who are spoiling for a fight, any excuse will do-- and extremists of anything tend to have that approach. This tactic is used not only between extremists in religions, but races, nationalities, genders, generations, etc ad nauseum. Once a person learns the bigger picture (which this information age is offering to us, thankfully) I think it becomes almost impossible to fear anyone or anything other than the misguided actions by the misinformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
Im not really judging an entire faith really, my best friend at college was Muslim. Lovely girl actually and so was her family. Their culture isn't one for me, but I respected their choice.
Shame I haven't heard from her in over 9 years :(
She was involved in an arranged marriage, he promised her the world, he promised that they would marry in Malta and live in malta, that was her dream... Once they married he told her they need to go back to Libya for business, and gone... diseappared!
So maybe its more a mixture of their beliefs and culture that gets to me, besides I'm a woman and to me it doesn't show any respect for a women their religion.
Sorry but its just how I feel.
I hope I'm not getting judged now.
I think its important to separate a religion from a culture to an extent. Looking at American Muslims, I tend to think this is possible and necessary since many of them make an entirely different seeming Islamic faith occur here in the US. And while some of the cultures in the Middle East are not appealing to me, I think those cultures may be a dying breed evolutionarily-speaking and that, I believe, is some of what fuels the extremists' fight more than their actual religion. (By the way, I think I live in a culture that is "dying" from a similar evolution of change too.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
A way of life is the kind of thing that people feel compelled to defend their version, all people. But some of it needs to change and change it will, like it or not LOL. You only need review history to see massive proof of that. In the long run it won't matter who is more tolerant-- this group or that group, Protestants or Catholics, Muslims or Christians, Democracies or other forms of government-- because only the tolerant will survive. The majority of us will eventually learn to make it work for everyone or kill ourselves off refusing to learn that. I believe this evolution is part of the plan the Creator created. We eventually take care of the harm caused by the "misguided actions of the misinfomed" by simply outnumbering them-- having changed ourselves, one by one, into something more informed and more guided, if you will.
This is why tolerance in any form is one of my favorite topics. Sorry to have veered so off specific topic, Starman.
Val. I wish that I could be as hopeful as you seem to be that intolerance has a self-destruct mechanism built into it, and that it is inevitable that in time the whole structure that is intolerant will fall under its own weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
The reason I do not rush to embrace your proposition is because intolerance, like mice in dirty houses, is self-perpetuating, and the intolerant will continue to raise, mostly, intolerant children.
It is obvious that the intolerant are more active in their intolerance than the tolerant. The intoerant are more likely to resort to heated rhetoric, badinage, and physical force including weapons to press their perspective on us laid back tolerant ones.
To use but one example, that of fascism, it has surfaced frequently throughout history under a varietym of guises, but its identity can not be hidden. Nazism is one of the prime examples of a movement imposing its will on others whether they would or no, and extrierminating all opposition to it.
An equally sinister occasion when fascism was the dominant factor in political movement was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, patricularly under Stalin who disposed of more 'enemies' and was responsible for the deaths of more people than Hitler's political machine was.
Nazi Germany stamped on France, and subjected the French to its murderous will. This is within living memory, but the last general election saw the fascist leader Henri la Penne [sp?] and his Nazional Front Partry take second place in the country, because he used the same rhetoric that Hitler used, only against immigrant rather than against Jews. There is a real possibility that la Penne could emerge as ruler of France at the next national election.
It has well been said that "Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them," yet we see the emergence of Nazi fascist political movements in almost every nation in the world. In the USA the brutal flag of Nazism is hoisted by white supremacist movements, and by vestiges of the KKK, but it is far from moribund. Europe has hordes of skinhead Neo-Nazis, British voters return Nazional Front council members in large connurbations where they frighten the weak minded into supporting them in their racist agendas.
Arizona has passed a resolution that English will be the State's Official language, and the idea is to stop printing forms in Spanish and other minority languages.
Intolerance for any reason except on grounds of absolute morality is a present evil, and a continuing cause of disaffection, fear, susopicion, and turning minds against groups that fascists choose not to enfold as a worthy part of society on grounds of arbitrary differences.
I have to say that my most powerful distaste for intolerance on racial, religious, or poklitritical grounds is enlivened when the intolerant are, or claim to be, motivated by religion, particularly Christianity, because theye is nothing in Christianity that permits intolerance or the suppression, harassment, and perscution of men, women, and children because they are different and march to a different drum.
And that, dear Val, is why intolerance troubles me. To be intolerant one has to deny the humanity of others, and to suppress any positive emotion or acceptance of others that contradicts the impulse to silence them or do them harm.
Intolerance is a sure sign that a person's insight is fatally flawed. Intolerance is a sure sign that whatever degree of intelligence a person has, it is overridden by his or her mean and spiteful spirit. Intolerance is not only a socially sickness, but a disease of the mind, and is a constant evil. I wish so dearly that you were right, but I greatly fear that you are not, but would to God that you were.
Lackaday!
M:)
Well put Morganite. I find the whole premise of this thread to be akin to sowing seeds of divisiveness and that's the last thing this world needs.
Quote:
Well put Morganite. I find the whole premise of this thread to be akin to sowing seeds of divisiveness and that's the last thing this world needs.
Really?
What is the premise of this thread?
What did Morganite just say?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Share it with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Are you blocking him, look up on this page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
The official Cathoilic stance does seem to tilt the scale.
On the other hand perhaps the Protestant extremists are just more vociferous? I know one thing, there is nothing more ridiculous than one human being judging another human being's eternal destiny or even motives for that matter and then going out of his or her way to deal out punisdhment--either psychological, or physical. It smacks of hubris.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Why should I? You already claim to know what my motive in posting is.Quote:
Share it with me.
Morganite isn't blocked.Quote:
Are you blocking him, look up on this page.
I only ask because in view of your "commentary" you seem to have completely misunderstood the premise of his post.
I probably should have separated my agreement with maorganite and my next sentence. It would be confusing.
I agreed with Morganite that intolerance does not seem to be a trait that will self-destruct itself.
The other statement about divisiveness refers to that fact that if tolerance = good then you are basically asking which religious sect is better which presumes then that the other is less good. It bothers me when someone tells others that their religion is less good. (My English skills are superlative, no? :)) That's just my opinion of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
It is commendable that you have respect for other people's religion. But as all matters concerning moral decisions, one has to weigh one duty against another. Here we have two, our duty to respect other people's feelings about their religion, and our duty to bring injustices to their attention if they are or seem unware that what they consider good is an injustice.
You choose the first--but I feel that the latter deserves more weight.
Actually, judging by the commentary my question has received I would say that those who choose the latter are in the majority on this forum.
If I understand the question correctly, Starman is not asking about individuals, but organizations. To that end, I offer these brief thoughts. 1. I don't believe there was ever a Protestant Inquisition. 2. Though not mentioned in the original question, I know of no country that is predominately Muslim where any other religion is tolerated in practice. 3. In the good old U.S.A. anyone can bring their religion in and worship any way they want to, excluding human sacrifice, of course.
1. I direct you to Foxe's Book of Martyrs. That should bring you up to speed on Protestant persecution of Roman Catholics. During the reigns of Edward VI, Queen Mary, and Queen Elizabeth, persecutions between Catholics and Protestants were extensive and violent. American Protestants hated Irish Catholic immigrants, and the Christian inspired Ku Klux Klan hated, persecuted, and murdered Catholics, Jews, and non-Anglo Saxons. All in the good Ol' US of A! The Christian based Aryan nation, and a White Supremacist Church whose name escapes me are just as hateful and intolerant. Here and now! Christians in the US of A still have some way to go to reach Christ's ideal for treating those of different faiths. There is no mention in scripture, not even a hint of a suggestion, that Jesus spoke badly of any religion outside his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
2. What difference it makes how other countries favour or disfavour different faiths? Are Christians called on only to be good to those who are good to them first? What did Saint Peter say about that kind of conduct? "Render not railing for railing, or cursing for cursing, but contrariwise blessing."
3. In principle the US is a tolerant country, but in practice it is not always so. Like many other countries it has its share of prejudices, whether against colour, gender, or faith. It is not perfect, but if the rleigious right will behave itself and begin to act like a rleigion and abandon their political agendas, then it will be a better place. If I was to preach a sermon on this subject, my text would be, "My kingdom is not of this world!"
It comes down to motes and beams.
The late British comedian, Gus Allan, of Flanagan and Allan fame, who was Jewish, told of his experience with the landlady of his theatrical digs when he played a theatre in Liverpool, England. She called him early every morning, "Because you will want to attend daily mass!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1970
He says he walked about every morning for an hour before going back to the boarding house and bed, but he didn't dare risk her displeasure by telling her he was Jewish.
LOL
I would say Catholics - the post Vatican II Catholics - are more tolerant of other religions.
I would agree with you if all actually dealt with others in the spirit of VII. Expericnce shows us that not all do, and that is a matter for sorrow, even for the Vatican.Quote:
Originally Posted by shygrneyzs
Not all Catholics deal with others in the spirit of the Vatican II Council. Not all Protestants deal in the spirit of religious tolerance. Not all Muslims believe in co-exisiting peacefully. A person can go on and on and never come to an end.
What I stated is just my personal belief, based on my religious upbringing and experiences.
Your point #1. The Church of England was very little different from the Catholic Church in that era, formed so a king could divorce his wife, and Jesus was very critical of the Pharisees, a religious group. #2. We are talking tolerance, or lack thereof, here. I fail to see your point here in relation to the question. #3. How many cases can you cite where people are jailed, tortured, or denied access to services due to their religion in this country?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
Since I am married to a Catholic and know his family well, I cannot say anything bad about the Catholic faith. The Catholics I know are loving and enjoy the Christian community just as most Protestants do.
As far as accepting non Christians religions as true. It would be against the faith of Catholics and Protestants as the Bible teaches about the divinity of Christ and the Trinity and about the only way to the Father is through the Son.
That said, I have been in Protestant churches that bash Catholics. As a thoughtful Christian, I address the speaker as I think that talk, especially from the pulpit is judgemental and hurtful. It is, incidentally, usually ex-Catholics that bash their beginnings.
The fact is, everyone is different and thankfully, there are different churches to accommodate the person to make them comfortable. For instance, I have nothing against the Penticostal Church. That said, they are a bit charismatic and enthusastic for me. The person who loves to dance in Church and speak in tongues should love this form of worshipping. It has a place for a lot of Christians.
Hope I was helpful. Have a blessed day.
A passing thought: Tolerance is not the same thing as agreement. We may argue loud and long over something, but at the same time tolerate the other person, knowing that he is certainly allowed his opinion. We may never agree.
I do not know. What does it really matter. Does not matter to me. What is important is that fighting and division between certain denominations end. That we all come together with our belief of Christ and stop looking at the differences but look at what we all believe to be the same and learn how to except and love each other unconditionally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Joe
Yes, we (Christians ) are all the same. We have the promise of Jesus. That pretty much covers it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
I agree with what you said - except we don't love each other unconditionally. For love, to be love, inherently has to have its boundaries & standards. If (hypothetically speaking of course) I killed your mother, you would still love me, right? Unconditionally, right? See my point? You can just say "love one another" instead of the condition or uncondition and then I would agree with the entire post. Cheers!
Retro:Loving unconditionally is not an emotion, It is praying for enemys as well as friends and family. It is the act of not hating when sometimes the actions can be hateful.
Thank you sexybeasty,
Praying for enemies as well as friends and family. The act of not hating even when the actions of other can be hateful.
You said it right there. I do believe Retrotia will understand what I meant better now.
Sure, I understand what seybeasty says about praying is a kind of unconditional love. And not hating back someone who hates you is a kind of unconditional love, but I never said I had a problem with any other kind of denomination of Christian, so I'm glad you figured it out anyway!
Jesushelper, you need to not be so sensitive & fly off the handle so easily. I can tell by your post you were practically shouting.
O.K. now you two need to kiss and make up... mother says. LOL
AND clean your rooms!!
I think I just had my 1st falling out with some of another Christian denomination! LOL:o
Yeah retro, mama almost put you two in the corner and you can forget dessert. O.K. you can have a little ice cream. I'm such a softee. Hee hee.
1. The Anglican Church had a much broader base than Henry's divorce. Check it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
2. Tolerance is a dirty word to some Christians. I am, not of their number.
3. The Ku Klux Klan, a Christian organisation that had new life breathed into it after WW II by a Mehtodist Minister hates Jews and Catholics, and has tortured, maimed, lynched, abused, and prevented many from exercising their loegal right to cast a vote. All in the name of Protestant White Racial Superiority in the USA. Where have you been?
Irish immigranmtsn were treated as second class citizens because they were catholics swamping a Protestant country. The Chinese who built the railroads were treated the same because they were heathens.
Those who will not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
M:)
Hello I thought we were having an open discussion? :o
Not a falling out? :eek:
I was just trying to state the sexybeasty said it so well. I was pointing that out. How I feel the same way and I wanted to mention that to you Retro that, sexybeasty said it best and that is how I feel too. For some reason all weirdness happened.
I do not get it on how all the wierdness came from? If you could fill me in that would be great! :D
Joe
P.S.
Sexybeasty I enjoy your sense of humour and making things light. Do you want Retro and I too kiss and make up now? Here it is. The best I could do. :p
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