450donn,
Wrong assumption on your part.
I have told you why I often do not type in word for word what the bible says.
When I have the time I will do so.
I assumed something on your part and that is that you are not familiar enough with the bible to recognize what I referred to.
I might be wrong but that's what it appeared to be for me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

AHHH Fred therein lies your problem. If I were to make judgments about you based on what you said here.

"You surprised me. I did not know that you "were" a RC.
You mentioned some of the bad news about the RC which if you knew history well you would know that much of it is distorted, exagerated, of is not true.
You failed to mention what the protestant did and in some cases are still doing to Catholics.
It is far worse than ANYTHING The Church did.
Believe me, that is true.
Your admission of "having been" a Catholic and what you are saying now tells me something about you.
I firmly believe that ANYONE who understands the Catholic Church and its teaching well will NEVER leave That Church of Jesus Christ.
So it tells me that a best you were Catholic in name only.
But if you were confirmed a Catholic then you swore an oath to ALWAYS be a Catholic and to stand by it, explain it, teach it, and raise your children in it.
Were you confirmed?
Once a true Catholic ALWAYS a true Catholic.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Then I would naturally come to the conclusion that you are a brainwashed member of some fanatic cult. And based solely on what you have posted here and other places I would believe myself to be correct.
See how what you write can be construed to mean a lot of different things. Like I said unless you can back up a statement with scripture, In my opinion you are only spouting words that you given by another human. Ergo a cult leader!

In Luke 16 we learn about what happens after we die. Everone who
Died before Jesus was crueified, to pay for sins of mankind went to
Sheol, it means, "the place of the dead". Sheol was divided into two compartments, separated by a great gulf. One side was filled with fire and torment. The other side was a place called "Abraham's bosom"
Or paradise. Those who loved God would go to paradise or Abraham's
Bosom side of sheol. The reason they couldn't go directly to heaven
Is because the blood of Jesus Christ had not been shed. So paradise was simply a waiting room. Abraham a friend of God would greet them there. Those who did not believe in God went to the torment side of sheol.
Although there was this great gulf between the two sides, they could call
Out to one another. In Eph. 4:8-9 tell us that before Jesus ascended
Into heaven, He first descended into the lower parts of the earth and
Led those in Abraham's bosom up to heaven. So Abraham's bosom no longer exists. In Luke 16 it tells about a rich man, in hell calling out to
Lazarus, that is in Abraham's bosom, to help him. Even though they
Were in sheol after there death, they new everything that had happen
In the past, they were not sleeping. There bodies were left behind.
The bible tells us the rich man died and was buried, then went to hell.
The rich man could think and remember his life on earth and was
Begging Laza rus, who was in paradise, to help him.
2Cor. 5, Tells about our new bodies that the Lord will gives us someday. After we die we can no longer make choices, we get what
We choose here and now so don't make any wrong choices.
Be prepared to meet the Lord.

Love and Blessing, Maggie 3

Maggie 3,
Very good. The fire side of Sheol is also called the pit. It is hell.
Some astronamers have speculated that a black hole is a pit of no escape.
Interesting, eh?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

In 1Peter3:19&20 We read that Jesus preached to the spirits who were
disobedient in the day of Noah. Genesis 6 say they were disobedient,
most wicked, and terrible of all demons. It was to these spirits that
Jesus preached too, and the ones that will be released during the tribulation, they will cause much pain and problems for people on earth.
Jesus told them "Your authority to keep a grip on My people has been
broken." The blood I shed washed away every sin we have done
or will ever do. The perfect provision I have made now absolutely,
completely free him from your authority." It is only through sin that
Satan's demons have authority in our lives. When we sin, we are
rebelling against God and open ourselvs to the devil and his demons.
They can do whatever they want because the sin in our lives gives
them a handle 0n which to hold, but the blood of Jesus is so
powerful thar it cleanses our sins, there by getting rid of the handle.
All they can do is put thoughts of lies in our mind, like "you have
blown it," "there is no hope for you", "you have gone to far".
Peter says "Look To The Cross". Realize that Jesus told the very
worst of the demons that they no longer have power over you.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Maggie 3 ,
They only spiritual person who have power over me is God.
I will allow no other.
Of course my government has some power over me as does the law but that's consequence of living in this nation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think we have to distinguish between the New Covenant and the Old. The New Testament teaches us that Jesus went to hell and preached to all the people who had been there since before the Flood. He goes on to tell us many times in the New Testament that the dead are asleep. John tells us we will be resurrected, some to eternal glory and others to eternal damnation, implying they had all been asleep. I don't have a problem reconciling that there are people currently in Heaven - those who were in hell but were loosed because they believed on Jesus - and the rest, since the Old Covenant, are asleep, therefore not in Heaven, and who will be resurrected at Jesus' Second Coming.

From what I can tell and understand from the Bible. Everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus and dies is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Tha is spirtually alive and with him forever.

Those who died before Christ, examples would be David, Moses, Abraham.. ect. Are in fact in heaven with the Lord too. When Jesus died and rose he conquered hell, death and the grave. All those with faith are waiting in heaven with the Father for the Lord Jesus to take his rightful place on the throne of David on this earth for his 1000 year reign.

There is no one that is actually asleep. It is a term Paul used in the NT. Even the people who have rejected the Lord are fully aware of there doom and alive in Hades... waiting their judgement.

Those that are with the Lord now will receive their new bodies at the rapture of the church.

Then of course during the Great White Throne judgement everyone will stand before the Lord with a resurrected body. Those not found in the book of LIFE are cast with that body into the lake of fire.

For me it's a non-issue. If they go instantly to be with the Lord, cool. If they're in a soul-sleep, as some churches like the SDA teach, then when they wake up and find they're with the Lord it SEEMS like it's instantaneous, so I really don't see what there is to argue about. Either way I'm with the Lord, and there's no discernible gap between when I shut my earthly eyes and when I open my heavenly ones.

Dave, Dave dave,

It is a HUGE issue if you think it is a non issue. It is what the bible clearly says happens. We are absent from the Body and present with the Lord. Not sound asleep. If we can't believe that what else can't we believe? If we can change That? What else can we change?. hmmmm? Ooooh here is one... lets change the everlasting promise that God made with the nation of Israel and replace Israel with the Church. Do you see how silly that would be? Tsk tsk. Tee hee.. yes, I'm picking a fight. :D

Why do you present suggestive poses as your avatar?

Not complaining, just curious.

Athos,

Are you serious? What exactly do YOU see Athos? Here is a thought... you have issues if you think there is something suggestive to my avatar. That was a very bold and rude comment. If my "poses" are suggestive to you, perhaps you need to get out more and stop looking at it. Geeesh talk about creepy, insulting and by the way I am complaining that you are curious. UGHHHHHH

If I weren't a Christian you wouldn't have even noticed my avatar. I can't tell you how offended I feel right now. Get real.

The lady doth protest too much

Athos,

You got me... I'm really on askmehelpdesk to pose in suggestive avatars. Finally! After 4 years someone noticed. THANK you... I can move on now.

dwashbur does not find this helpful : What on earth does this have to do with the topic?

Athos doesn't know enough about the bible to discuss it. When you can't answer the OP's question... hate on someone who can.

Um, you're very wrong about that.

This is to address "Junior Member:"

JM, the "spirit" is simply the breath. It is also termed "the soul" of the individual. In the Greek, the word for "spirit" and "soul" are the same; it is the pneuma, or breath of the individual, which does go back to the Creator, whence it came. We get the English words "pheumothorax" (air in the space between the lungs (outside) and the chest wall, and pneumonia (disease affecting the alveoli, or air sacs of the lungs). The Bible states that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). As far as people who "see" their dead loved ones and people who see ghosts, we know that there are angels of Satan who have appeared to people in the form of the deceased. Angels are quoted in the scriptures as being able to take on human form. We also know that when people go to fortune tellers, it is the enemy who tells them things that only that person would know, or of events that only that person or a deceased loved one shared. The enemy watches our lives, and is intent on lying about the very things that he always has. The first lie that he told to Adam and Eve was that they would not die. This lie is perpetuated every day by people who believe, despite the words of the Bible, including the words of Jesus, that they do not continue to live in any way, shape, or form. Additionally, it would be the most cruel thing in the world if Jesus were to raise those who had died and "gone to Heaven" and bring them back to a sinful Earth from the most perfect and sinless place ever! It also makes no sense why Jesus would have had to go back to Heaven if that was where he went when he died. Why would he go to Heaven, then come back to Earth just so he could be raised up and return to Heaven? It would also be so cruel for those who love us and have died to watch us mourn and grieve for them, with some people becoming so despondent that they commit suicide. But even without that, for them to go through the torture of watching those who loved them hurt and grieve, to become so excruciatingly sad, would be nothing short of cruel!

Dear Classy T,

The Bible doesn't say that we ARE absent from the body, it says that we are WILLING to be absent from the body and with the Lord. This is not a reference that even has anything to do with death, but rather, it has to do with living in the flesh versus living by the Spirit (the Holy Spirit). Being "with the Lord" here means that we are to live not in the sinful state, but to live lives in the Lord.

Here is a link that will describe this in more detail, so you can understand it fully: http://www.jba.gr/Articles/nkjv_jbafebmar98a.htm.

In Christ,
Brenda

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:1-3) there is no heaven yet. He is preparing it. He promises us that. In this scripture. If we died and went to say " heaven" why the reserrection?

Brenda,

I completely disagree with you but I'm not sure what you believe. I'm confused completely. The bible is clear that we are with the Lord Jesus when we die and we most certainly will get our bodies back and we will rule and reign with the Lord Jesus during his 1000 year reign. There is NO question as to whether the Lord will return to this earth. It is only a question of when.