That would be wrong. You might want to ask your priest if you don't believe my responses above.

Sincerely,

De Maria

The level of silliness with regard to NOT eating meat on Fridays is so far beyond hysterics, that it makes one want to laugh himself to death. As we can see, the eternal Savior Jesus, passes the keys on to Peter with the intention of a massive, corrupt institution evolving wherein the hierarchy is allowed to conjure up rules by which they can control the masses. I have no problem with Christians obeying rules, but let's be reasonable. Abstaining from meat on Fridays?? Why did the RC hierarchy invent this discipline in the first place? How did such an idea ever float into the cranial cavities of the power holders? You mean we're supposed to believe that Jesus allows them to conjure up these absurd notions, and then gives the go ahead to bind them around the necks of its members like a yoke on an oxen? LOLOLOL!! Ya, okay. I wonder which doctrine of the Church allows for the cover up of little boy raping for forty years. The Church tried to keep this under the covers for a long time, and we're supposed to continue having faith that this institution holds to rights to ecclesiastical authority? That in itself, is more laughable than NOT eating meat on Fridays. BTW, what's the difference between the corporate world, and the RCC? Nothing.

Scott,
So what was the result?
What did the Bishops decided from that in 1998 or whenever?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays... but most Episcopal Conferences have determined that, instead of abstaining from meat, Catholics may perform an act of penance of their choosing.[/QUOTE]

Is this an Episcopalian loop hole? Go ahead and eat your meat, BUT choose some other sacrifice you will do. Bargain with God? So silly:cool:

Moved to a separate question.

cozyk,
Please keep in mind that the instruction to eat no meat on Friday's is a penance reserved for Lent and some special days only.
Personally I feel that grieving for wrongs being done and praying for them to stop is a very worthwhile endeavor.
In the case of the killing of millions of persons in the womb it is a vary great and grievious sin world wide and will now get even worse for the USA will now fund abortions in other counties with our tax payers money.
Our new president just reversed the ban on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Where is it moved to?

Here; Catholics and meat on Friday
I felt it was a separate question so I decided to move it so as not to get into trouble with the moderators

I'm confused. What is the diff between...

Catholics and Meat on Friday, and
Catholic Church and eating meat on Friday?

And what about the Episcopalian part of my question, where is that?

Is this an Episcopalian loop hole? Go ahead and eat your meat, BUT choose some other sacrifice you will do. Bargain with God? So silly:cool:[/QUOTE]

Cozyk, thanks again for making no effort whatever to moderate your contempt for the Catholic Church. I'm sure the Catholics who read this thread really appreciate it.

Not sure where you get the idea that this is bargaining with God (though I believe you when you say you think it's silly--the repetition has helped that sink in). It's a disciplinary matter, not a matter of doctrine. Catholics are asked to sacrifice something. It can be meat or, if the bishops of a country determine that some alternative would be beneficial, it can be some other penitential practice.

Fasting is an act of penance. It is a virtuous act that “bridles the lusts of the flesh”, to raise the mind freely to God's revelation, and to satisfy sins in a penitent heart. St. Augustine says; "Fasting cleanses the soul, raises the mind, subjects one's flesh to the spirit, renders the heart contrite and humble, scatters the clouds of concupiscence, quenches the fire of lust, kindles the true light of chastity." (De orat. Et Jejun. [Serm. Lxxii (ccxxx, de Tempore)

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Fast

But my question for you, why is it that fasting seems so irksome to you? Do you have an objection to Catholics in pious fasting? Should we not do it for your peace of mind? Most of your posts seem to ridicule anything Catholic, so why would you care whether we fast; or is it that it just gives you more to mock?

JoeT

A fair point. Questions about Catholicism are perfectly fair, but the constant put-downs get a little tiresome.

If it was a question for the purpose of gathering knowledge, it would be one thing. In my opinion, I don’t see this with most of cozyk’s comments. I’ve been wrong before, but never where I’d admit it!

JoeT

The defination of fasting or to fast has nothing to do with not eating meat. This seems to most that this is simply a ritualistic thing and has nothing to do with fasting as defined below.

A Christian theological definition of Fast - Fasting according to CARM - The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry:
Fast, Fasting

Depriving oneself of food for a period of time for a specific purpose, often spiritual. It is the "weakening" of the body in order to "strengthen" the spirit. It is interesting to note that sin entered the world through the disobedience of eating (Gen. 3:6).

I wonder if it would be a good idea for the mods to merge the two threads on fasting. There's an awful lot of repetition.

This may be how it seems to most of those with whom you discuss such matters, but to lots of people it makes good sense. It has LONG been customary for people who are fasting to, for instance, drink water and eat bread. Fasting doesn't have to be ONLY abstinence from all food and drink. This isn't just a Catholic thing: It's how fasting has been done all over the world for thousands of years (CARM notwithstanding).

Moreoever, I for one have no problem with ritual. You've made it clear that you do. That's fine, I guess, though I bet you participate in lots of rituals yourself. If you pray daily, go to church on Sunday, read the Bible... These are all rituals. So to say that abstaining from meat on Fridays is "simply a ritualistic thing" may not be quite the put-down that you take it to be.

It’s my understanding that abstinence from red meats has historically been associated with fasting.

But as to fasting in general: And Jesus said to them: Can the children of the bridegroom mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then they shall fast.; (Matt. 9: 15, Cf. Mark 2:20; Luke 5:35) shouldn’t we follow Christ in his recommending fasting?

But thou, when thou fastest anoint thy head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not to men to fast, but to thy Father who is in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret, will repay thee. Matt. 6:16-18 - 17 Why would Christ instruct us how do fast if we weren’t obliged.

Jesus said to them: Because of your unbelief. For, amen I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain: Remove from hence hither, and it shall remove: and nothing shall be impossible to you. But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. (Matt. 17-19-20)

The Apostles prayed and fasted (Cf. Acts 13:2-3; 14:23). Isaiah 58 teaches how not to fast. So, don’t Protestant’s fast? If not how do you justify not fasting?


JoeT

Of course we do. Fasting though is not ritualistic and is reserved for specific times or events in our lives. If for instance we have a specific need or burden on our hearts a fast could be in order.

Then it IS ritualistic.

Cozyk, thanks again for making no effort whatever to moderate your contempt for the Catholic Church. I'm sure the Catholics who read this thread really appreciate it.

You aren't thankful to me, you are being sarcastic, mean and oh so defensive

Not sure where you get the idea that this is bargaining with God (though I believe you when you say you think it's silly--the repetition has helped that sink in).

Where do I get this idea??? How about the poster that wrote...

It's a disciplinary matter, not a matter of doctrine. I understand that. Catholics are asked to sacrifice something. Everyone has to sacrifice the same thing? You can't choose your own sacrifice ? It can be meat or, if the bishops of a country determine that some alternative would be beneficial, it can be some other penitential practice.[/QUOTE] Why is the sacrifice decided by the bishops? I guess I wonder why you need to be told what to do, instead of having a personal sacrifice between you and God.

I know you think I am showing contempt for Catholics. It's not a Catholic thing. What I feel contempt for is how I was raised in the christian faith. I didn't think I could dare question what I was told, and the rituals I had to adhere to, and the fear and anguish that was always in my thoughts. Not just for myself, but for everyone that I loved. And even though I saw and was a part of all of that, I saw blatant hypocrisy all around me. I thought that God would much rather you toss all the rituals aside, stop "playing" christian and just LIVE it. When you conduct yourself in a way that pleases God, that covers all the bases. Everything else meant nothing if you did not just LIVE it .

If my questions seem rude, I'm sorry. I am questioning rituals, and when they are said back to you, you think it's being a smart @$$. If you believe in what you practice, I don't understand the defensiveness. I'm waiting and wanting to be convinced and lose my skepticism . So far, rituals seem meaningless and I hate that. The only way I can be convinced is to make sense of some of these things.