Okay, as most of you know I live with my boyfriend and he has a 9-year-old daughter. Well, lately we are having some huge issues with her, and neither of us know how to fix this. I will make a laundry list of this weeks occurrences, and hopefully someone can shed some light on why she is doing the things she's doing and how we can redirect her and make her realize she is just getting herself into more trouble.

So background-young single dad, full custody. She, who we'll call Sarah has no relationship with her mother (her mother's choice). He's had custody for 5 years, before that she lived with her grandmother.

So, this is what our week has looked like:

• She cut the cat's whiskers, and trimmed the dogs tail fur. And lied about it. And is not allowed to have scissors without permission.
• Took SIX hours to do a project because she was watching TV when we weren't looking. She was at the kitchen table with her back facing the tv, if she were in her room she would have just been playing with toys. She's not ADD, she's a third grader in fourth grade classes doing sixth grade work. She's in mostly advanced classes. She was procrastinating.
• When she cleaned her room she shoved all toys under her bed and then put all her clean clothes in the dirty laundry.
• She went into my room (which she knows she not allowed in unless invited) and played in my makeup. Wore makeup to school. And lied about it.
• She told her teacher that her father REFUSED to help her with her homework and that he was mean and yelled at her when she asked for help. All of which is untrue. When the teacher called and Sarah was confronted, she lied.
• She woke up in the middle of the night the other day and ate an entire carton of ice cream, and lied about it.
• She wakes up before everyone else and watches cartoons, when we turn on the tv and it's on nickelodeon and we ask her why she was watching tv while grounded, she lied and said she wasn't.

I don't understand the lying. It's been explained to her many times that if she just tells the truth that she will be in a whole lot less trouble.

What's the deal, help us!!

Maybe she's lying compulsively. My brother always used to constantly lie about everything (my favorite: when he was little he hated brushing his teeth. So he would lie about it. So one day we asked if he'd brushed his teeth and he said "yes." then we asked why his toothbrush was dry and he replied "oh...i forgot to use water.") My aunt is HUGE on integrity. Since he moved in with her, his lying has lessened. She's constantly lecturing about having integrity. And the lectures just get longer whenever he's caught in a lie. We've never been able to figure out if he lies compulsively (like half of the rest of our family) or for the attention. But since it's lessened we're all leaning towards thinking he just does it for attention. That could be what she's doing.

Hey. First off, I'm a 17 year old and I used to do the same things as your daughter is doing now. If her reasoning is the same as mine, its because she is testing to see how much she can get away with and she wants attention whether good or bad. Also she could be getting influenced by kids at school.

Now as for how to deal wit her, I don't know whether or not you would be willing to try this or not, but my mom put me threw a home version of boot camp. Essentially from the moment I got home to the moment I went to bed, I was in my room. The only time I was allowed out was for washroom breaks and meals. All my toys were taken away and for every week that I behaved I got one toy back of my choice. If I miss behaved they were all taken away again. This lasted for 6 months in total. It was a hard route, but now, I am the most honest person you'll ever meet. I tell the truth whether it hurts to or not.

That's what my mom did and its always an option. Hope I was able to help. If not I'm sorry but I tried. Goodluck.

This is an issue.

You may be advised to take her to a counsellor, as she may be a compulsive lier.

She seems pretty normal, as kids do tend to rebel at some point, but...

How long has this behaviour been going on?
What was happening then?

She's been confined to her room for a month straight at this point. She has gotten off grounded for 2 days, and that was only because WE were tired of her being grounded and gave her a break, and that only made her think it was okay to get back into trouble.

She's started lying about two months ago. Nothing out of the ordinary was happening at this point. She had just turned 9, that was it.

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

She's been confined to her room for a month straight at this point.

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That's quite a harsh punishment for a 9 year old.

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

[*]She cut the cat's whiskers, and trimmed the dogs tail fur. And lied about it. And is not allowed to have scissors without permission.

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What was her final reason as to why she did it? Did you tell her that there was no one else in the house, so all signs pointed to her?

[QUOTE=ChihuahuaMomma;1783513][*]Took SIX hours to do a project because she was watching TV when we weren't looking. She was at the kitchen table with her back facing the tv, if she were in her room she would have just been playing with toys. She's not ADD, she's a third grader in fourth grade classes doing sixth grade work. She's in mostly advanced classes. She was procrastinating.

Why did you leave the TV on? AND, why did you wait 6 hours for her to get it done? Was no one helping her?

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

[*]When she cleaned her room she shoved all toys under her bed and then put all her clean clothes in the dirty laundry.

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Pretty normal for a 9 year old. She needs you for guidance.

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

[*]She went into my room (which she knows she not allowed in unless invited) and played in my makeup. Wore makeup to school. And lied about it.

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Didn't either one of you notice that she was wearing the makeup before she went to school?

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

[*]She wakes up before everyone else and watches cartoons, when we turn on the tv and it's on nickelodeon and we ask her why she was watching tv while grounded, she lied and said she wasn't.

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In all honesty, if I were grounded to my room for a month I'd do the same thing.

What other discipline techniques does your boyfriend use besides grounding?

Mine did similar things.

I don't think she is a compulsive liar. Compulsive liars benefit from lying. She is lying to avoid getting in trouble, and does not benefit from lying.

Try giving up on getting a confession. Instead, when you know she's done something, tell her that because she cut the cat's whiskers, or went to school with makeup on, or broke the TV rules, that she will lose a privilege, reasonable to the 'crime'.

If you deal with it without waiting for a confession, which you know will be a lie, and make the punishment appropriate to what she has done, you are making your point more effectively.

If you keep challenging her and expecting her to come up with a confession or reasons for her behaviour, they'll just keep piling up. She may not know why she trimmed the dog's hair, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. Don't waste time trying to get a reasonable answer to unreasonable behaviour.

At age 9, you are maybe making the reason for the behaviour more important than the behaviour itself.

Next time something happens, just tell her that you are going to have to punish her for eating the carton of icecream. Then ask her what she thinks is appropriate punishment. No discussion. Offer her a choice. No TV for an evening, doing a load of laundry, cleaning her room.

That way, she takes some responsibility for what she's done, because she's had to pick the punishment for it. She then owns it.

It's sort of like your husband comes home late from work, his clothes are a mess, he smells of perfume, and has lipstick on his collar. You ask him where he's been, and he says, at a board meeting. Do you waste time arguing with him about WHY he is lying? You already know he's lying. You would then proceed directly to the baseball bat.

Keep it simple. When she has done something, stay cool, tell her because she sprayed her baby brother with shaving cream (mine did that once), she's not going to the birthday party down the street on Saturday, or, offer her a few alternative punishments that she can pick herself.

She will eventually think before she does something, because she essentially doesn't want to have to punish herself.

[quote=J_9;1783662]That's quite a harsh punishment for a 9 year old. I'm sorry, I disagree. And it's her fault. She's had her "don't tell Daddy" trips. She's had her okay behavior days where she gets to go camping with us, or go to the mall. I don't mean she's literally faced the wall in her room for one month straight.



What was her final reason as to why she did it? Did you tell her that there was no one else in the house, so all signs pointed to her? She said she wanted to see what would happen, and yes she was told that it was obvious she was the culprit and that there was no use lying.

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

[*]Took SIX hours to do a project because she was watching TV when we weren't looking. She was at the kitchen table with her back facing the tv, if she were in her room she would have just been playing with toys. She's not ADD, she's a third grader in fourth grade classes doing sixth grade work. She's in mostly advanced classes. She was procrastinating.

Why did you leave the TV on? AND, why did you wait 6 hours for her to get it done? Was no one helping her?
Because I'm and adult and I can watch tv when I want to. It took her six hours to get it done because she was whining, trying to con us into doing it for her, and doodling when we weren't looking. She had PLENTY of help from the both of us, AND our roommate. It took her so long because she realized we weren't going to just do it for her.



Pretty normal for a 9 year old. She needs you for guidance. I've talked to her about this at least 1,000 times. I even told her that the next time that she does it I'm going to wait until she picks up the dog poop from the backyard and then go behind her and throw it all back out there and make her pick it up again. I explained that this is what she is doing to me by trying to trick me into washing her laundry again because she doesn't feel like putting it away. I fold it, all she has to do is open a drawer and sit the stack inside the drawer, not that hard, and not too much to ask of a 9-year-old.



Didn't either one of you notice that she was wearing the makeup before she went to school? No, he's gone to work, and I was in the bathroom when she left for school.



In all honesty, if I were grounded to my room for a month I'd do the same thing. And that's the reason that she's grounded, she just doesn't get it. Mind you this is an example of about 6 hours of A DAY. Things like this occur all the time. And really has only been happening for about two months. Including but not limited to running away for 4 hours, getting into a stranger's car, and shaving her eyebrows.

What other discipline techniques does your boyfriend use besides grounding?

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Adding more chores, taking away priveleges slowly, soap in the mouth (only for cussing), cancelling field trips or things that she is looking forward to, sitting her down and talking to her like an adult, me & her girl trips and "serious girl talk", and grounding to the room is usually the last resort.

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Originally Posted by Jake2008

Mine did similar things.

I don't think she is a compulsive liar. Compulsive liars benefit from lying. She is lying to avoid getting in trouble, and does not benefit from lying.

Try giving up on getting a confession. Instead, when you know she's done something, tell her that because she cut the cat's whiskers, or went to school with makeup on, or broke the tv rules, that she will lose a privilege, reasonable to the 'crime'.

If you deal with it without waiting for a confession, which you know will be a lie, and make the punishment appropriate to what she has done, you are making your point more effectively.

If you keep challenging her and expecting her to come up with a confession or reasons for her behaviour, they'll just keep piling up. She may not know why she trimmed the dog's hair, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. Don't waste time trying to get a reasonable answer to unreasonable behaviour.

At age 9, you are maybe making the reason for the behaviour more important than the behaviour itself.

Next time something happens, just tell her that you are going to have to punish her for eating the carton of icecream. Then ask her what she thinks is appropriate punishment. No discussion. Offer her a choice. No TV for an evening, doing a load of laundry, cleaning her room.

That way, she takes some responsibility for what she's done, because she's had to pick the punishment for it. She then owns it.

It's sort of like your husband comes home late from work, his clothes are a mess, he smells of perfume, and has lipstick on his collar. You ask him where he's been, and he says, at a board meeting. Do you waste time arguing with him about WHY he is lying? You already know he's lying. You would then proceed directly to the baseball bat.

Keep it simple. When she has done something, stay cool, tell her because she sprayed her baby brother with shaving cream (mine did that once), she's not going to the birthday party down the street on Saturday, or, offer her a few alternative punishments that she can pick herself.

She will eventually think before she does something, because she essentially doesn't want to have to punish herself.

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ALL of that makes a lot of sense, but the problem lies here: we've done that. And her answer is, "no punishment". Every time, so we were back to deciding her punishment. She is not lying because we present her the opportunity. She lies about it before we find out about the act most of the time, and that's usually how we find out. She lies about stupid things sometimes, that there is no point to lie about. We're not punishing her for not having a good reason for her behavior, she gets in trouble for the behavior itself, she knows that.

What about positive reinforcement, instead of listing everything she does/did wrong, start focusing on attention for the things she does right.

If she is getting attention for poor behavior, she will continue poor behavior for attention. Get her focus on her attention for good behavior, not just the talks about being better, after she messed up.

Keep in mind, she is still nine. You aren't going to get an adult out of her right now, be patient.

Like next time, she makes a mistake, she needs to be rewarded for NOT lying about it. Encourage the right choice, stop putting all of the emphasis on the poor choices.

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

What about positive reinforcement, instead of listing everything she does/did wrong, start focusing on attention for the things she does right.

If she is getting attention for poor behavior, she will continue poor behavior for attention. Get her focus on her attention for good behavior, not just the talks about being better, after she messed up.

Keep in mind, she is still nine. You aren't going to get an adult out of her right now, be patient.

Like next time, she makes a mistake, she needs to be rewarded for NOT lying about it. Encourage the right choice, stop putting all of the emphasis on the poor choices.

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Oh we do! She gets 50 cents for every extra chore, she gets a "parent day" when she has two or more A's on her report card or big tests.. She gets plenty of positive reinforcement for good behavior whether she is grounded or not, and she DOES get a day knocked off grounding or completely off grounded if she doesn't lie or confesses to something. But the thing is, she never does these things anymore. She does still get really good grades. So she still gets her parent days. We aren't trying to make her an adult, just make her a responsible kid. When we're in public she's a flipping princess, I swear. She always says "ma'am and sir, thank you, please." And that's all the time. So, she's very well behaved, but she just keeps getting herself into trouble. That's why we are so confused.

Chi, I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm sorry if I do... but I have raised 4 kids, so I'm pretty experienced.

An entire month grounded to her room IS wayyyyy too long of a punishment. You deal with the particular problem then and there and be done with it. If not, she is going to continue to act out for attention. Kids don't care whether it's good or bad attention they get as long as someone is paying attention to them.

Also, not to sound harsh again, but you are the "intruder" in her young life. You are not her mother and she may be acting out because you are taking her time away from Daddy. You should not be punishing her at all, this is her father's job.

Don't take "no punishment" for an answer. She should be given choices for her punishment. Let her pick from the list that her father decides.

I don't doubt your experience or advice, J_9. I'm telling you what we have tried and haven't, and what has worked and hasn't. And my opinion. Like I said, it was not a month straight. She got off grounding and decided that she wanted to abuse the animals so she got grounded again.

I don't want to sound harsh here either, J_9, but you don't know the entire situation, so please don't assume you do by calling me an intruder. I've known my boyfriend and his daughter for 5 years, and have been a steady part of their lives for 5 years, so no I'm not an intruder. I am not biologcal mother, but again you don't know our situation. And for the record, I don't decide her punishments, her father does. And our agreements on parenting have nothing to do with this conversation.

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

I don't want to sound harsh here either, J_9, but you don't know the entire situation, so please don't assume you do by calling me an intruder.

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Look Cherish, whether you want to admit it or not, in HER life you are the intruder. You are not her mother. This is how children look at step parents. It's a fact, not my opinion. I'm not name-calling only fact-stating. This is how young children view people who are not biologically their parents.

Maybe I don't know the entire situation, but you haven't posted it either. I answered according to your posting.

I won't argue with you, but you cannot state how ALL children feel about their step-parents. My step-dad has taken the place of my mother and father, and is my best friend. I thank you for all your great advice, and will put some of it into action; as well as the other advice I have received here. Thank you to everyone, I will check back in a bit, and let everyone know how things are going. Today went really well. We finished working on her project, I helped her with her chores, and she helped her Dad with dinner. No negative attention-seeking behavior, no lying. It was all-in-all a great day. Again, thanks to everyone for all the fantastic advice.

Maybe now that she's getting older its getting to her that you're the one there and not her biological mother? Is there anything at all that might have possibly triggered something?
I'm confused on the month long grounding. I get that in the end she wasn't grounded for a whole month. But in the beginng was it "you're grounded for a month."? Because I know when I was grounding up, we'd all laugh if we were told we would be grounded for a month because we knew the most it ever lasted was a week, usually less. If she's regularly getting her punishments shortened, she may not care.
My final thought, that I'm completely stealing from super nanny... have a reflection room for her. Every time she misbehaves she has to sit there for 9 minutes thinking about what she did, or reflecting, and when that's done you calmly sit with her and explain why she was sent there and have her apologize.

I don't think that's the case. Just the other day she said that she wished that I was her Mom. She doesn't know her mother. Perhaps it's nothing to do with me, maybe she's holding a secret grudge towards her mother and acting out because of it. I'm no therapist.

No, she was at first grounded for a day, and then she just misbehaved every single day so it got longer. And there was a week long grounding in there (for getting into a stranger's car).

I've spoken with her father, and he thinks it's a good idea to retry to choosing her punishment thing and giving her three choices of punishment. Mostly extra chores, cause she doesn't care if she doesn't get to watch TV. Or no playing outside, which in June is a super bummer.

The reflection room isn't a bad idea. Would the garage work, or would that be mean? LOL. We don't have much extra space. It's usually just "Go to your room and think about things."

I think this child is lucky to have you in her life, and to care so deeply for her. Remember the ones doing the parenting get the worst of it, because it is unconditional love.

As tough as it is with her now, what you have taught her during the past five years will eventually shine through.

Sometimes there is just no explaining kid behaviour. Then there are pre-teens, and the teen years to get through. Nobody gets out alive!

When you do the best you can, there are still going to be times when you're going to want to pull your hair out. I don't know any good parent who can say they did everything right, kids don't come with instruction manuals.

Keep your chin up, stick to your guns, set reasonabe expectations for reasonable behaviour, and eventually this will all work out. Hang in there.

Thank you. I'm fearing the "you're a woman now" talk. I fear it's not too far off, and her father is absolutely clueless on the matter. We already had to go bra shopping and he flipped out when he saw pre-teen padded bras. Ha. Anyway, I'm sure you'll hear much more from me.

Just a p.s. about the reflection thing. That's a great idea.

I'd give her 10 minutes, have her go to a quiet place of her choosing, with the understanding that when the timer goes, the two of you are going to sit and talk about what happened. A good opportunity too to come up with the punishment.

I've seen that technique on Nanny 911 as well, only with younger children, but worth a try.