I certainly never said that children are trash. I would never say anything like that about children. I love kids, if I could be a part of this boys life I would I and I was tryign. But you all seem to be missing the big picture his mother is refusing to let me have any contact with him. So blah, blah, blah back at all of you. I will be judged by the same god that will judge you. So back the f off. No his mother is not refusing me contact with him because I am a bad father. She is the one hurting the child because I certainly can give him more than what she can and I will give him love also. Another thing she is living off the government. So I don't care what you think, I could give a rats tail. So you can agree with whomever you want. Enjoy yourselves.

Why wouldn't you take her to court to enforce visitation? Do you even have a visitation order? There are legal channel to go down before relinquishing rights. What would you say if your child track down in 18 years? Oh I gave up my rights to you because your mother was being mean? How do you think that would make your child feel? I imagine they would feel pretty worthless that their dad didn't think they were worth a fight.

I have constantly filed the papers for court. Each time I am denied without even being able to reply. I do not know what else to do. Every attorney that I have spoken with all say that there is nothing that they can do. If you can reply with positive feedback please do. If negative save it.

Yep, true I was 6 when my mom and dad split and he showed up when I was in my 30's. He said my granny was mean to him and my mom would not stand up for him... Boo Hoo. No support from him not one dime am I bitter hell yeah. Do I have time for him? No He continues to call and I continue to tell him I'm busy don't have time. To me he is just another human on this earth that doesn't give a damn about others so I have no use for him or people like him. Even if you can't see the boy pay the support and shut up , because if my dad had at least shown me that he gave a damn that I had food in my belly then maybe I would be willing to try. One thing people can't lie about is the records that show where a person has paid into CSEA. Do the right thing pay the small amount of money every week even if that is the only thing you ever do for him. By the way I am 45 now.

Why is there a block against this? I was always under the impression that the court had to uphold the orders already in place. What does your visitation order state?

I have never been giving visitation rights. Every time that I send in the paperwork his mother would tell the magistrate that I have never been a part of this child's life. She does not tell them anything about her denying me the right to see him. She lives in one state and I live in another. The very last time that went we to court and I before I could even say two words about why I should have rights to see him since I am legally responsible for taking care of him by paying child support. He called my name and th eboys mother name and immediately said this case is dismissed. Do not bring this before me anymore. I do not stand a chance. The courts are always for the mothers no matter what.

I think there is more to this story then you are telling us. There is no way that they can do that. And if you hired a lawyer and they failed as well then your lawyer wasn't very good. And the court is not always in the mothers favor. I would get a new laywer, and if the judge has something agenst you then I would ask to see a different judge for this matter you can do that. What states do you and her live in?

Something is going on here that you aren't telling us about, or you are making up the bit about going to court.

No court is going to deny visitation unless the child is in danger. My daughter will be 6 this December, her father hasn't seen her since she was 15 months old, and the courts still set up a visitation order.

The pieces just aren't fitting here... either there is some legitimate reason why you aren't allowed to see the child, or its just you don't want to thus don't try.

I agree that we are probably not hearing the whole story. I don't believe what you claim the attorneys are telling you unless you are telling them the whole story.

Their you all go again with I do not believe you, or you are not telling the whole story. Once again I have no reason to lie, yes I have gone to court repeatedly and have spoken with everyone with that stae to see what my options are. His mother says that I do not know him and that the boy does not know me. And since we live seven states apart the only visitation would be in the summer. Of course the mother said that during the summer months they go back to here home state and visit. This chidl is not in any danger with me for whomever made that comment. If that was the case I would not be here with my other children. If you cannot offer something positive or helpful don't reply.

The only thing that ic an say is just keep trying, get a new lawyer. Because if your not doing anything wrong then there is NO way that she can keep the child from you. How old is the child? Where does she live and where do you live? Just don't ever give up.

No one is being negative. Its just difficult for us to believe that the courts would refuse a parent visitation. I've never heard of the courts refusing to approve a visitation order or process it or anything. Everything all of us here have experienced is different. So I'm sure you can understand how we would all feel confused.

I can see some possible issues. For example the child is very young and can't travel on its own. Or maybe the child is of a certain age where introducing a father might be traumatic.

But the bottom line here is you do have rights and there has to be reasons for the courts to deny you those rights. But you haven't told us those reasons.

The last time that we went to court, I told my reasons I wuld like to start having visitation rights. I even said that if I had to pay for his plane ticket by myself I would if the mother could not pay for half. I tried to show where I was making contact with here via the phone with my bill. His mother siad that since I do not know him and he does not know me that if she could not be there when I was with him then she did not want him to go with me. When the judge asked why I had not seen him until know, when I said that I just found out that he was my child this summer. I said that he was sorry but it is whatever the mother says since she has been the only raising him up to this point. And the case was dismissed. I have filed the same papers hoping that at some point in time the court may get tired of seeing all of this paperwork and something will change. I do not know what else to do that I have not or am not already doing. It has been month than a month now and I have not gotten my last set of papers from the court.

How old is the child? Can you arrange to spend a vacation where they know live so you can spend some time with him under the mother's eye? Try and force the court to have an independent evaluation done of whether the child can handle meeting with you.

There are things you can do.

Have you offered solutions to the courts? If what Scott says is true, that the child's too young, then offer to take time off work and go to the child, maybe say you could have the mother there at first if they don't seem to be going for it. Or maybe you could fly to his house and pick him up and have a "meeting" with the mother you and the child then take him back with you.

I'm sure if you let us know some more details all of us here can help you with ideas that we think the courts would go for.

The child is nine almost 10. The first time that we ever saw each other was this past summer. I cannot take a 2 month vacation from my job and family to go and visit with this child and his mother. Then I would have a whole new situation going on. I have tried and am still trying. His mother is married with other children also. Leaving my wife and children to go and visit another woman and child is not an option.

That's not what I meant. Maybe you can go and stay the day and get another flight out later in the evening for both you and your child. 10 is not old enough to fly solo, maybe if you told the courts you would fly both ways with him/her they would allow it. Maybe don't keep him all summer or the whole break, but maybe half the first time or only a week or two, state to the courts he can come home or call him mom anytime he wants and she can come to visit or call any time she wants to talk to your child.

Did you get any visitation? Even if its just when you are at his home? Or did the Judge just say what ever the mom wants is what it is?

9 almost 10 is old enough to understand and travel by themselves. If you have met the child then there should be any grounds. However, I can't see you getting more than a few weeks during the summer or some holiday weeks. But that is no reason you can't keep a correspondence, talk on the phone, use a web cam, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

How old is the child? Can you arrange to spend a vacation where they know live so you can spend some time with him under the mother's eye? Try and force the court to have an independent evaluation done of whether the child can handle meeting with you.

There are things you can do.

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Scott is so correct here. Why not go out and visit him. If he is only 9 then he is to young to travel on his own. In addition, if you have not seen him since he was 2 he probably would be apprehensive about coming to see you. You could be the best father in the world, but if the child does not know you then you can't blame him for being a little nervous about coming 7 states to visit you.

Instead of taking 2 months off your job, why not take a week off and go visit him. Start to build a relationship with him where he feels comfortable. Then as he gets older he can come see you during school vacations and such. I think a couple of week long visits throughout the year would benefit both of you and begin to build a bond between you.

Most airlines have provisions for young children flying alone. Younger children fly by themselves everyday. I disagree that a 10 year old is too young. I will agree its not the optimum situation, but its definitely doable.

YEs, CJ he can fly alone. There are airlines that will fly a minor for a small fee, they are called unaccompanied minors. Typically the ages are 5 - 14.

I think the problem Teaspoon has is that he wants visitation under his conditions only. He doesn't want to go visit where the child lives he wants the child to come to him. My guess is that the court has offered visitation to dad under supervised terms until a bond is established and dad has refused it.

You can't just rip a 9/10 year old away from the only parental relationship he has had. There are simply too many negative results that that can cause for the child. You want visitation on your terms only, you want to pay only if you see the child... problem is it isn't about what you want. It is about what is best for the child and what the child needs.

As far as the court is concerned if you aren't willing to even go to where the child lives and visit for a couple of weekends a year, begin to have regular phone conversations, and regular video/web visitations to build the bond that will allow the child to be with you away from mom then you aren't thinking of your child first. And the court probably will just continue to dismiss your case and possibly even begin sanctioning you for wasting courts time without having a more reasonable plan to introduce yourself into this child's life. And if you go into court as bitter as you are here then you really will get nowhere fast.

You can not just expect this child to adjust to seeing you on your terms. To leave everything he has ever known to go to a state where he has never lived, has no ties, knows no one, doesn't even know you, much less a step mom and siblings is too much to ask. He will have NO security there. He has to build a bond with you first in a situation he feels secure so that when he does go with you to your home YOU will be his security.

You are simply going to have to start small to go big. You are going to have to inconvenience yourself in travel time and money to get to know him. Anything short of that doesn't tell the court that you are putting his needs and concerns first. And the court is not going to completely disrupt a child's life, security, stability for someone like that.

Your saying you won't pay if you can't see him isn't going to go well for you either. He isn't merchandise that you can simply refuse to pay for if you can't possess it. There are two forms of support that every child has a right to. It isn't an either or situation. You can't say well I'll provide the financial support if I can provide the physical support. You need to provide both forms proportionate the to the needs of that child. He has a right to the court ordered child support amount from you, and if the court deems you can afford it then you can provide it. He also has a right to physical support from you but right now because of what has happened it would not be best for him to just go with you to get it. You are going to have to jump through some hoops right now to give it to him. It doesn't matter how he got here, he is here, and you helped put him here. It isn't really your plight that needs understanding it is his. You need to be compassionate to how he is feeling, not how you are feeling, to what he needs, not to what you need, to what he has a right to, not to what you have a right to.

How would you like it if when one of your other children who live with you turns out to be someone else's? When one of them became 9/10 and it was discovered that someone else was dad, who lived 7 states away and suddenly said well I want that child to come to me so I can get to know them. You can't seriously tell us that would be okay with you could you? As a caring loving father wouldn't you say NO that would traumatize (my) the child, or would you really say what you are asking of that little boy... well he'll adjust, I am a good person, he'll get used to it eventually.

Think about it. Maybe if you change your attitude about how you are viewing this situation and go forth with your child's best interest truly first you might meet with a lot more agreement and cooperation from the court.

I have been down this road before... I was in court with my daughter when her father had not seen her since she was born. So she had no clue who he was.

The courts did not even metion denying visitation. We had a "graduated" visitation schedule set up so she could get to know him as her dad and feel safe with him, and they could build a relationship.

It went something like...

He got to see her once a week for 2 hours and I had to be there, we did that for a month.

Then he got to see her twice a week for 2 hours and I had to be there, we did that for a month.

Then he got to see her once a week for 2 hours with me there, and he got to take her once a week alone for 2 hours, we did this for a month.

Then he got to take her once a week for about 6 hours alone, and we did this for a month...

Etc etc

So I don't in any way believe the courts are telling you that you can't see your own child. I believe that you just don't want to do it on their terms.

I have called repeatedly, I cannot make his mom answer her telepehone and nor can I make her return my calls. I never said anything about paying child support either. I pay my child support as ordered. So I guess my children here with my wife do not have a right to see their brother. I am supposed to just jump from plane to plane weekend after weekend. So when I leave on her message that I am coming to visit and she is not home, then I have wasted my time and my money for nothing. I have made every reasonable effort to see my child. When I saw him for the first time he was already 9 years old thinking that I was dead. If I am denied visitation this time I am through if he wants to see me he can when he is old enough. I call there 2 times a day and leave a message on the machine. I am looking for his mom to say that I am now harassing her because I leave a message each time for him to call.

All of a sudden I am a bad parent, or a liar, or I want things on my terms. No I do not I have handled things the legal way trying not to upset the judge but how many times am I to go to court and waste my time. I don't need anyone sympathy or judgement. I certainly never said anything about not wanting to pay child support. The child support does not hurt me as long as it is going for him not 100% to the mothers need. I am willing to fly there and fly him back on a weekend or on holidays. He will ljust have to adjust the same way that my family and I will have to adjust. It is the same adjustment just as going to school, or to a daycare.

I did not move anyway and not let me no anything about the child until he was 9 his mother did. It sounds like to me that everyone that has responded right off the bat says I am a liar, I am not trying hard enough, I want things my way or the highway. Don't judge me because neither of you has that right. I have done everything that I can do legally and I still call everyday unless the judge tells me to stop. He did not even look at my phone records last time I was in court to prove that I am trying to make contact.

So you all can judge me , hate me or whatever. I will say it again I am a damn good father to my children and I am trying be a father to this boy also. I cannot make his mother do anything that she does not want. I will only fly out there one time and she will know that I am coming and she if she is not home. I will not fly out there again. I certainly am not going to take the chance on flying out there without here knowing that I will be arriving.

I think I have read enough negatively from all of your emails, and I don't care to read anymore. I am sure that you all are woman and only think from one point of view.

No one has mentioned well it seems like you are going the right way however you are just not catching a break with the legal system or this boys mother. I do not know why she is so angry with me do not care. She is punishing the boy not me because the time I spend with him I can provide so much more besides love. I will do things with him as a family with my family. Take him places and do things that he may not have done. His mother is preventing this from happening.

There is no "break" to catch with the legal system. No one is coming down upon you. You are just extremely defensive. You cannot have everything on your terms. If visitation is ordered she has to uphold it if you come to see him. She cannot violate the court order and get off scout free.

I'm sorry if you wanted to make your son a part of your life you would understand that he doesn't know who you are and would frightened to go spend time alone with you.

Frankly, your attitude stinks. Your opinion of women is vile and damaging. Everyone on here has given you loads of good advice but you are taking the road of "I take care of my kids". Good for you. Do you want a medal? That's what you are supposed to do. When you have kids you take care of them and protect them and love them. What you want to do in regards to this other child is potentially damaging. Wouldn't you be scared at 10 to go spend a weekend with a stranger just because he was your dad? Are you really that selfish?

No I am not selfish and no I do not want a medal. This boy has no problem with seeing me his mother is the reason that I cannot see him. The judge has never ordered me any visitation, simply because the mother says that we do not know each other. Well we do not know each other and I am trying to get to know him. The judge said for me and his mother to work out something amongst ourselves and let him no when we come back to court. So far his mother will not return any of my telephone calls. I am taking care of my children like I am supposed to, I know this child did not ask to come here and no I cannot chaange it now. If I had known about this pregancy fro day one even if we were not together I would have provided what ever kind of support that I could have.

Another thing I am not hard on women, everyone emails start positive and ends up negative. Am I supposed to disrupt my family here and bend over backwards when his mother will not even talk to me.

You need to rethink your thoughts before you write better yet do bother emailing back. I am sorry that I ever asked anything. Everyone is quick to judge everyone else and I am sure that some of you all need to clean up your lives. You are not lawyers, judges or anything else that concerns me. You are not in the court room, filling out papers on my bahalf. Or paying for my plane tickets.

KEEP YOUR ADVICE AND THOUGHTS TO YOURSELVES I WIL SEE WHAT THE NEXT COURT HEARING WIL BRING ABOUT.

And keep in mind... while you said what a good parent you are, and how you are trying to do all you can... your ORIGINAL QUESTION was how to reliquish your parental rights...

You Keep In Mind That I Also Stated That That Is What His Mother Wants Me To Do. I Makes No Difference She Is Not Allowing Me To See Him Anyway. And I Am A Good Parent Are You

There are other avenues. Why not get a mediator involved? A third party can get these arrangements down so you can spend time with your son.

But you are going to have to be flexible. If the mother is blocking you then fight harder. This is kid for Gods sake.

Some of us on here are being hard on you because we saw fathers walk out of our lives without a fight. They completely left us and never looked back. I had my father want to come back into my life a few years ago. Where was he the whole time I was growing up? Oh he was angry with my mother. My mother never blocked him from anything he just decided it wasn't worth the effort. You are willing to miss out on your kid over the mother. That is awful. There is still time to do right. Why not go up there and show up on her doorstep and say lets work this out now. I understand you have another family but your wife has to get that you want this child in your life. If there is anything in this world worth fighting through hell for it is your child.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by teaspoon

You Keep In Mind That I Also Stated That That Is What His Mother Wants Me To Do. I Makes No Difference She Is Not Allowing Me To See Him Anyway. And I Am A Good Parent Are You

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Well it was you asking how to go about reliquishing your rights... while your immediate answer should be "hell no"

"am I a good parent"... please, every breath I take everyday is for my daughter, every thing I do in life is simply just to see her smile, just to hear her laugh, if anything ever came between her and I, I would fight tooth and nail to be with her with no limitations, my last dying breath would be in effort to be with her... now think again before you ask am I a good parent... while you place limitation on your efforts.

Why are you trying to convince everybody what a good parent you are? That tells me that maybe your trying to convince yourself that you are but your words tell a different story.

This is what concerns me. This is what you wrote.

She is the one hurting the child because I certainly can give him more than what she can and I will give him love also. Another thing she is living off the government. So I don't care what you think, I could give a rats tail. So you can agree with whomever you want. Enjoy yourselves.

You can give the child more then what she can and I will give him love also. What the heck is this? Just because the mother is on government support does not make her a bad mother. Love is more important then anything else and just because she is on government help does not make YOU a better parent then the mother. You do not care what anybody else thinks. Well that is good. I guess, that shows me you ONLY CARE ABOUT YOURSELF AND HOW YOU LOOK, but do you really care for this child? That is all it comes down too.

This is what I got from an e-mail sent from United Airlines when I wanted to fly my kids to their grandparents for two weeks... "Children who are twelve and older can be accepted as unaccompanied minors as long as the fees are paid and the proper documentation is completed." If there is another airline that lets them fly younger then I didn't know that.

On the topic at hand... I have asked before what did the Judge order but I didn't get an answer. He/she must have said something in all the times you were in court. They don't normally deny visitation with your son for no reason.

I will say freely that Judges suck and they often rule unfairly but they are making a judgement on what is said at that time and what's in the file. The same thing we are doing.

You posted here looking for help, as we all do. People, myself included, only go on what you have posted. I have never PM or e-mailed you and I don't go to past posts to read them. The only information I have is posted on this thread.

Can I try to help you with what I think you are looking for? Yes. Is what I think you are asking what you really are? I don't know. Is what I say going to be helpful? Hopefully. It all depends on the facts that are posted and the ideas I have and the things that worked for me or someone I know. When things are missing from the story you're telling it makes the whole story seem untrue.

I didn't post anything before because I thought you were looking for something different. My mistake... You did get a bad deal, not to know that you had a child is heartbreaking. Your Ex was wrong to keep your son from you and you from him. His world was turned upside down when he found out about you, after all you were dead. He will need time to get to know you and you him. I have ideas that might help you get to know your son should you want to hear them.

I wish you all the luck in getting to know your son and I hope that you don't get to upset and just give up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by teaspoon

i never said anything about paying child support either. i pay my child support as ordered. so i guess my children here with my wife do not have a right to see their brother. i am supposed to just jump from plane to plane weekend after weekend. so when i leave on her message that i am coming to visit and she is not home, then i have wasted my time and my money for nothing. i have made every reasonable effort to see my child.

i certainly never said anything about not wanting to pay child support. the child support does not hurt me as long as it is going for him not 100% to the mothers need. i am willing to fly there and fly him back on a weekend or on holidays. he will ljust have to adjust the same way that my family and i will have to adjust. it is the same adjustment just as going to school, or to a daycare.

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Just as I suspected you expect him to adjust his life to you... I am glad the judge won't let you have him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by migraine

Hi,
I just found out that i have a son in another state from where i live. he is 9 lives with his mother. now i have been put up for child support the clerk of the courts refuses to hear my reasons for lowering support. if i terminate my rights will this release my obligations from supprt. this is ntohing but a big hassle. i am not speaking to my mother because of all of this, and me the boys mother can't even say 2 words to each other without us at each others throat. my wife is mad as the devil about everything. i would rather give up my rights and legally have nothign else to do with him.

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And this is the post that started it all to which someone replied "children are not trash" and then you repost it as your title looking for sympathy. You have proven yourself to be a liar on many counts here. You did say something about child support. I do not believe you as far as what the judge supposedly did either.

You don't want our help you want to hear what you want to hear. Well what you want to hear isn't reality. So deal with it or maybe just stop posting.

The negativity has been on your part. All we hear is what you are telling us and the picture we get (and remember several of us are seeing the same thing) is someone claims he can't get to see his kid, but is making little attempt to try. You want the kid to come to you and won't try to work out anyway to do it differently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by teaspoon

no i am not selfish and no i do not want a medal. this boy has no probelm with seing me his mother is the reason that i cannot see him. the judge has never ordered me any visitation, simply because the mother says that we do not know each other. well we do not know each other and i am trying to get to know him. the judge said for me and his mother to work out something amongst ourselves and let him no when we come back to court. so far his mother wil not return any of my telephone calls. i am taking care of my children like i am supposed to, i know this child did not ask to come here and no i cannot chaange it now. if i had known about this pregancy fro day one even if we were not together i would have provided what ever kind of support that i could have.

another thing i am not hard on women, everyone emails start off positive and ends up negative. am i supposed to disrupt my family here and bend over backwards when his mother will not even talk to me.

you need to rethink your thoughts before you write better yet do bother emailing back. i am sorry that i ever asked anything. everyone is quick to judge everyone else and i am sure that some of you all need to clean up your lives. you are not lawyers, judges or anything else that concerns me. you are not in the court room, filling out papers on my bahalf. or paying for my plane tickets.

KEEP YOUR ADVICE AND THOUGHTS TO YOURSELVES I WIL SEE WHAT THE NEXT COURT HEARING WIL BRING ABOUT.

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Not for nothing, the mother has a good point. You don't know your son. Why not try to spend a week in his hometown, go see him, see his school, hang out with him. Get to know him before you try to have him fly 7 states away from his home to see someone he does not know. As for your family that you live with, they should be more than happy to help you as you try to build a relationship with your son. Allow them to support you in this as you build a relationship.

I am sorry you are so angry with what people wrote, but unfortunately things don't always go your way. Sometimes we need to step up and be an adult in a situation even when we don't want too. So now it is time for you to step up, make the move to see your son, spend the money to go to see him even if it is for a day. Trust me he will remember that more than the child support check that you send every month.

My wife is very supportive of me getting my child. She has even tried to call and talk with the moher. Neither of us can get through. His mothere was the one who asked to terminate my rights. I never heards of anything like this until she mentioned it. I am going to try and try until a judge says that he is tired of my paperwork and tries to hold me in comtempt of court. I do not think that I will take a chance on flying out there unannounced. It is to far away for me to fly there and she be gone.

I am not mad at any of you. I know that the legal system is the worst system in the world and it is there way or no way. I will continue to try.and I still call eveyday I do change the times so thiking that she may by some chance answer it. I have even gotten a calling card to call with so that the number and area code will not come up from my state. She still will not answer.

Honestly I do not know what else to do that I am not already doing. I try not to lose my cool on the machine so that she cannot say that I am harassing her.

This is for tawny kids. I don't give a about what you believe. Take your sympathy and ram it up your . I couldn't care less about what you believe about me or about what the judge ordered. I never said I did not want to pay child support. I did say that I hope the child support is going towards the child and not towards the mother for her personal use. I know that he will lhave to adjust so will I. I am trying to do all that I can do. SO WHY Don't YOU STOP POSTING IF YOU Don't LIKE WHAT I WRITE.

You are probalby one that lives off child support, or welfare. My family supports me 100% with trying to see him. Whatelse can I do kidnap him. I am sure you would like that then I be in jail probalby like you children's father.

Tea,
Your nastiness is completely uncalled for. As for the vulgarities, well it says a lot about your character. As objective members of AMHD we can only comment on what is presented to us. In your OP it is evidant that you expect your child to come to you. What the members have suggested (and it has fallen on deaf ears) is that you go there, see your son, deal with the situation where it is occurring rather then trying to contact your son's mom via phone.

Also, there are other ways to contact the other mom. Try having your lawyer send a certified letter to her lawyer. That way it will get a response.

Verbal attacks and vulgarities are not necessary and certainly not appreciated.

Thanks For All The Advice Whether Negative Or Positive. I Will Wait And See What The Judge Says At The Next Hearing. And If I Back Off From The Mother For About A Month Or Two She May See That I Am Trying To Be A Part Of This Child's Life. I Will Take It From There.

I Will Unsubscribe From Here Also, So Keep Your Comments

Backing off does not signify that you want to be a part of the child's life. It says to me that you do not care.

I hope you can work out your differences