Here's a question and I would like to get a christian (especially catholic) point of veiw on this.
What is your belief about demons? Do they exist and do they mess with us in a spiritua sense? Can one really be possessed?
I have a friend who has a severe seizure disorder, and he is a devout christian. He is mentally sound and I trust him a lot. He claims that when he has a seizure, during the end of it in his hypnotic like state, he sees demons and angels as well. He says one demon in particular has a name he never heard before: "Abatu". He is terrified. He said the angels are almost as terrifying only in a different way. I have been there for some of his seizures and he is getting more scared with each one, scared of what he is seeing and scared of being alone in this. He says he trusts Jesus and asks me to start praying when he feels a seizure coming on, stating that this demon figure he sees hates the word of God and is deterred by it. He has warned me not to pursue this and not to research it, stating that it is very dangerous ground that I don't want to be poking around in. but of course, I am curious.
Has anyone studies this subject, and what do you think of this?

I'm not currently christian, but for the 18 years I was. I believed in demons and spirits. I was taguht in church about them. I was always told that I had the decerning of spirits a gift god gives certain people that allows them to be ''in tune' with the spiritual world. I saw spirits when I was young and I also saw trolls on walls. My grandmother and I ruled out that they were demons following my unchristian parents around. But from my personal experience and teachings in church, satan sends his demons (fallen angels) to harm or taunt christians to make them lose faith or drive them crazy. I truly believe in spirits and demons. Yes you can be possessed. Satan is the dark lord of the earth. This is his playground. He can use his evil to destroy christians and sinners. In the bible it says god gave satan dominion over the earth. This is why bad things happen. Demons are everywhere. On the spirit plane, but they are there all the same. Currently I am not a christian, however I do believe in supernatural. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean its not there. I've done lots of reports and studies on the phanomina of the supernatural. I love it. Its interesting and very thrilling. If I was your friend, I would pray to w/e god they worship for protection. Also, for non christians, a protection spell or chant would help. White candles with a prayer over them could ward off evil. My father used to tell me, if I feel like something bad is near me, just say ''In the name of Jesus you cannot hurt me, I plee the blood of Jesus over this room and my body and my life.'' A protection prayer over a room-bedroom. Worked for me when I was seeing spirits around the house. They never once came into my room because I had prayed over it. So good luck and I hope your friend finds something that works.

It's a possibility he or she is just ''spiritually sensitive''. They just need to learn to protect and control it.

My friend is a "he" :) but anyway... thanks for the reply... its good to hear there are others with the same experience... I am truly fascinated by this, although I guess maybe I shouldn't be.

Well at least your interested. A lot of people dismiss these things just because its out of the norm, or its past the realm of reason. But just as I said just because its not physically visible, doesn't mean its not there. Just keep an open mind, I'm sure you'll find some very interesting things as you go.

One can not really be a christian and not believe in demons, first we have to know and believe in the devil because if we did not there would not have been a reason for Christ to be born and die and rise again.

And as a Christian we have several examples of Christ dealing with demon possessed people. And he made a difference between those that were merely ill and those that were demon possessed.

But with that said, also we understand by that, there is a difference, that not all illness is demons

And for many Christians yes we believe in a spirit world, all around us, where demons and angels can be visible. For those I have know that can see into it, if a person is not knowing what to expect or does not want to see it, I can understand why it would be scary.

In the bible there is a story about a man who had MANY demons inside him. They called themselves a ''Legeon'' -meaning many I thik. Jesus cast out the demons into pigs and the pigs ran and ended up dying in madness. The man was thankful to Jesus and repent. Jesus cast demons out of people a lot in the bible. Its very real.

Has anyone heard of this name, "Abatu"? I have not researched it because my friend begged me not to get involved... but I am curious if this has any historical backgroud?

Selected References to Demons in the New Testament of the Holy Bible

Matthew 8:31:
The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."

Matthew 9:33-34:
And when the demon was driven out, the man who had been mute spoke. The crowd was amazed and said, "Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel." But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

Matthew 10:8:
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

Matthew 17:18:
Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.

Mark 1:26:
The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.

Mark 1:34:
And Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.

Mark 1:39:
So he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons.

Mark 3:15:
And to have authority to drive out demons.

Mark 5:8:
For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you evil spirit!"

Mark 5:12:
The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them."

Mark 5:15:
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Mark 6:13:
They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

Mark 7:26:
The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.

Mark 7:29:
Then he told her, "For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.".. . She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

Mark 16:17:
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Luke 4:33:
In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, Be quiet!" Jesus said sternly. "Come out of him!" Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.

Luke 4:41:
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.

Luke 8:2:
and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magadalene) from whom seven demons had come out;

Luke 8:29:
For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places. . . . Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" . . . "Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

Luke 8:32:
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. . . . When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Luke 8:35:
and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Luke 9:1:
When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

Luke 9:42:
Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father.

Luke 10:17:
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

Luke 11:14:
Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed.

John 10:21:
But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Acts 19:15:
One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" . . . Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

1 Cor. 10:20:
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. . . . You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

1 Tim. 4:1:
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19:
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Rev. 9:20:
The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshipping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood -- idols that cannot see or hear or walk.

Rev. 16:14:
They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

Rev. 18:2:
With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.



Here at the bottom of this site are some url's to some good info on demons and such
http://www.diskbooks.org/bible.html

Abatu... lol I looked it up on Google all I got was a metal band... just lloked up a different site...

An earth bound form of destructive/negative energy in the Order of the Nine Angles. Associated with rites of sacrifice.
Demonology: Demon Names List: Abatu (http://www.hellhorror.com/demon-names-7.html)

I'm having them send me more info, which ill give to you when I get the email

First and foremost, demons lie, it is most likely one will not tell you their real name, unless commanded to do so by the name of Jesus, Knowing their name is part of the power to make it easier to get rid of them.

Next many demons will tell you they are you dead uncle, or here by some mistake, stuck between the worlds, or even tell you they are angels of God. So the number one rule when dealing with demons is really not to talk to them, and if and when you do, do so in the power and authority of Christ. I seldom talk about the few exorisms I have been at, since to many christians it will rate you a nut case sadly, while they believe in it, they don't practice it. But the things I have seen and heard can only be handled when you are strong in Christ, full of his spirit. A weak Christain would never hold up to the happenings.

Yes, that is the main one

Abatu - An earth bound form of destructive/negative energy in the Order of the Nine Angles. Associated with rites of sacrifice.

It is listed in the list of demons, it is considered one of the familiar demons

Fascinating Father... and rayne thank you for the scripture.
So you have really been to an exorsism? I can't imagine.
When you say demons lie and say they are a dead uncle, etc.. is it your belief that all ghost "sightings" are something of this nature? So you believe in ghosts or are ghost really just demons posing as a dead loved one? I only ask because I am curious as to a catholics view.

I believe that yes they CAN act like a dead lover or mother or brother. Why? Because they are satans lap doggs... lol. They want to lie, steal your joy and love. They want to break you down to the lowest point. Is your friend a new christian? That may be it. Satan doesn't want you to go to heaven he will do anything in his power on earth to destroy you. So he may have sent a demon to destroy your friends christianity.

Rayne I guess that makes sense doesn't it

As a catholic I don't believe in possession by demons. Ithink thta your friend may need to seek some professional help.


Does that also mean you don't believe in spirits or demons attacking people? If so, I'm sorry but the bible is clear that demons are real and do harm. I've posted places the bible talks about demons on pg 2 I think.

Father... one more thing... why are catholic preists the only ones who do exorsisms? If protestants think catholisism is wrong, then why is it they turn to preists to take care of these problems? I am not trying to be argumentative or start something, I am really asking. Are catholics the only ones who acknowledge demons/ect?/

I won't say 100 percent I don't believe in ghosts, I have as rayne mentioned the gift of decernment, and I can fell evil when I am near it, or feel the spirit over a room or area of town, Until I learned more to control and turn it off and on better, it used to even make me physcially ill when I was in and around too much evil at a time.

But when in Atlanta, I lived in a haunted house, we had a shadow that passed by the front window almost every day, the smell of a pipe being lit in the old dinning room every few days, We could not use our motion detectors for our security system, something set them off every night.
And we actually saw objects fly ( not fall) but fly 1/2 way across the room, they almost always came off my desk , which was in the old dinning room, and once in a while off the fire place mantel.
But there was never any feeling of evil in the house. And these things matched very well my wife's aunt and uncle (* who my wife and I actually looked a lot alike)
Ghosts are not really a Christian or catholic view, but are actually mentioned in the office, when Christ was walking across the water toward the followers in the boat, they believed him to be a "spririt" or ghost, so it appears the followers of Christ may have believed in ghosts.

rayne i guess that makes sense doesnt it

Its possible too, that he has a gift that god allowed him to have. God gives people many gifts. It's possible because he may have a calling on his life that satan wants to stop that. God calls people to do things sometimes. Your friend may be very special and chosen by god to do something great or it may just be he is in tune with the spiritual world. Either way satan wants to rob him of his calling and gifts and christianity.

Its possible too, that he has a gift that god allowed him to have. God gives ppl many gifts. It's possible because he may have a calling on his life that satan wants to stop that. God calls ppl to do things sometimes. Your friend may be very special and choosen by god to do something great or it may just be he is in tune with the spiritual world. Either way satan wants to rob him of his calling and gifts and christianity.

That is my feeling on the subject. This fried is very meek, mild, a lot of health problems, but a joy to be around and touches many people. It would not at all surprise me.

I have as rayne mentioned the gift of decernment, and I can fell evil when I am near it.


It's nice to know that I am not the only person who has/had this gift. I'm no longer in god's service so right now I don't have the gift. To tell you the truth, when I was 12 or so I was so tired of the hauntings and the fear that I asked god to take away the gift from me. I wasn't ready for it and I was scared. Ever since then I think I lost my calling. I was prophecied over and they told me I was to be a missionary and help people in spiritual matters. But I gave that up. If this is what you friend has been given I can only hope that they will keep the faith and be strong. I regret what I did, I hope he doesn't make that mistake.

Rayne, it was good talking to you... I will check these posts tomorrow... thanks for the conversation!

As for the Catholic faith, yes the Church teaches people do get possessed, they have a very strict set of rules that has to be followed, medical and mental health testing and the such. But the Church has many cases documented in their records, of real exocism, so from the catholic churches view points, yes they do believe it is very possible.

But no, while the catholic church is very careful, maybe over careful to be sure it can not be anything else. But the very first I was ever involved with was with a independent ministry ran by a husband and wife team by the last name of "DUCK" out in OK. And there are many ministries that work in that area. The most important thing is the people being very, very strong, since the demon will "know" things about them, secret things, things that make them doubt, if they can weaken the persons faith, often the deoms are harder to get rid of. Many of the protestant ministers make the person possessed ask Christ into their heart, if they can ever get them to say that, the demons just can't stay.

But it can take a while, and can get very loud and nasty.

Is there any way to get gifts back father?

From my view point, ( that of a Christian) ** not trying to convert you OK

But God gives these gifts normally for his purpose, so if and when we are not either serving him directly, or if we are not serving a purpose for him.
There are times he uses non beleivers for his purpose.

But if we turn back to God, often those gifts are still ours. As long as they are a true gift, nor merely a power of the spirit we have temp use of.
But it if was a gift we truly had, as a Christian, it just can not operate if our heart is not on Christ,

** hope I worded that good, I am not trying to name call or sound out of place.

I totally get you. I meant if I WAS to become a christian again in the future. I know I will, I just wondered if it would be possible to still do what I was origanally called to do. And such.. but thank you for your opinion :-)

Well I am no longer Christian ( I am now a Wiccan Priest) but I used to be heavily christian and I study demonology so I think I am qualified to answer this question. All right, first off demons definitely do exist. There are 72 main demons (called the Goetic demons) that govern Hell, under the leadership of Satan (the Devil). Under the 72 main demons would be millions of lesser demons. As for possession, I do believe in it but I don't believe that demons just randomly posses people. Its my belief that demons only posses people when they are summoned incorrectly and get loose or Satan sends them after someone for a reason, which RARELY happens. Believe me, demons have better things to do than waste time possessing people. As for your friend, I do believe he is seeing a malevolent spirit. I can't say whether it's a demon or not, but spirits can only be seen when correctly summoned or when someone is in an altered states of consciousness. Since your friend isn't of the former, the latter remains as the logical answer. Though I don't believe that demons randomly posses people I do believe that they are VERY powerful beings and should not be messed with without the proper training. I hope this helps

Jesus described the experience of one man in Hell, and absolutely nothing is said about satan or his minions being in charge there. That is as much a misconception as is the idea that the devil is red with a tail and carrying a pitchfork. Satan has never been in Hell, and will never be there. He will go first to prison (the bottomless pit), be loosed for a short time, and then be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

You are right Galveston1, Satan is not in hell. And as for the bible saying anything about there being ranks and levels of hierarchy in hell, you're also right, it doesn't. There are many things the bible doesn't tell us, but that is in no way saying that its true. You forget that the bible was changed over the years by the church, several different times (hence why we have so many different "versions".) So, things were taken out to suit the needs of the church of that time. King Solomon (who was the wisest man in the world, and was also a Godly man) wrote a book called "The Key of Solomon The King" in which he states that God gave him the power and knowledge to summon angels as well as demons. In the book he says he summoned the 72 princes of hell and contained them in a brass vessel. Well, I'm no longer a christian, but God suppossedly made this man very wise, so if he says that he summoned 72 princes from hell then I would think that this means there are 72 main demons in hell. And by hell I just mean a dark abyss. Satan and the demons have to be "living" somewhere right now.

Why is it that when the Bible is used to answer a question about Christianity, someone will always tell us that the Bible has been changed, mis-translated, or is unreliable? The reason many of these old writings were not included is because they are patently false. There is no other Book in the world that can give an answer to questions relating to Biblical subject matter. Who should we look to instead? Greek philosophers? They who were for the most part polytheists and homosexuals?

As Chuck said, I don't know how any Christian could not believe there are demons. The Bible not only talks about demons and possessions, but tells us how demons came to be demons. This question is along the lines of something I wonder as well...

I worked with mentally ill clients before I started my current job. They were not mentally handicapped but had mental illnesses that raged from chronic depression to paranoid schizophrenia and multiple personalities. My last client was a schizophreic. Symptoms of that diagnosis is hearing voices and seeing images. Part of my job was to help them understand their delusional thoughts are indeed delusional and not reality. Up until I got my last client knowing when they were delusional came easy.

For example; When one of my clients continually insisted he had a snake crawling around in his body... well it wasn't hard at all to determine that was one of his delusional thoughts. But my last client stated she saw demons. The talked to her and just basically it was horrible things. It terrified her. She also said she saw good visions too, like angels.

With her, I was stuck with not knowing what to do. As a Christian I indeed believe demons exist. My client too, is a Christian. So I was stuck in this place of not knowing whether she was truly seeing/hearing these heavenly and satanic visions or if it was simply the symptoms of her illness. In truth, how could I say she wasn't seeing/hearing what I know is out there.

So what I did was treated it as if she truly was seeing.hearing it. We studied and read the Bible a lot. I encouraged her to open her Bible to read and pray when she heard bad things or saw these bad things.

But I still wonder if her visions were only a part of her illness or if she truly was seeing/hearing these things. If I could have determined it was all a part of her illness I may could have helped her more, but how can anyone truly say she wasn't seeing/hearing what she was since demons are real? Her thoughts and visions were not as clear cut as the client who insisted he had a live snake crawling in his body.

Demons do not exist, every primitive society has good vs evil. People who believe in such things believe in many other stories like the loch Ness monster, or bigfoot. In the near future the world will be secular and all of the nonsense that some people believe will go away. The yoke of supersitition is fading away

workerbee

demons do not exist, every primitive society has good vs evil. People who believe in such things believe in many other stories like the loch Ness monster, or bigfoot. In the near future the world will be secular and all of the nonsense that some people beleive will go away. The yoke of supersitition is fading away

workerbee

FYi A demon has deceived you into believing the above.

Or maybe that is true of you. How do you know you aren't being deceived?If you believe in that sort of thing I would guess your education level very low. Please don't be angry with me a DEMON is making me write this

workerbee

heres a question and i would like to get a christian (especially catholic) point of veiw on this.
what is your beleif about demons? do they exist and do they mess with us in a spiritua sense? can one really be posessed??
i have a friend who has a severe seizure disorder, and he is a devout christian. he is mentally sound and i trust him a lot. he claims that when he has a seizure, during the end of it in his hypnotic like state, he sees demons and angels as well. he says one demon in particular has a name he never heard before: "Abatu". he is terrified. he said the angels are almost as terrifying only in a different way. i have been there for some of his seizures and he is getting more scared with each one, scared of what he is seeing and scared of being alone in this. he says he trusts Jesus and asks me to start praying when he feels a seizure coming on, stating that this demon figure he sees hates the word of God and is deterred by it. he has warned me not to pursue this and not to research it, stating that it is very dangerous ground that i dont want to be poking around in. but of course, i am curious.
has anyone studies this subject, and what do you think of this??
Hello.
Are you born again and do your read the Bible? If the answer is yes and you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you read the scripture God will give you understanding into this subject.
Demons and Angels are real. Demons are fallen angels as described in Isaiah 14 and Revelation 12. They have absolutely NO POWER over Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit as described in Luke 10:18-19.

Please don't be confused.
The answer here is vey simple. Read Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. They talk about the fall of Lucifer. Revelations 12 describes the attempt of Lucifer to take God's throne resulting in his failure and throwing out of the Kingdom along with 1/3 of the angels who are now demons.
Christians are the only humans on earth who have total power and dominion over Satan and the entire Kingdom of hell (Luke 10:18-19). This is because they abide in Christ and are to act and behave as Him (Psalms 82:6).
This power and authority is accessed through our knowledge of Jesus and subsequent faith. We should all be doing as is written in Mark 16.
Timothy tells us that God has not given us fear. Pray in the name of Jesus and command demons to leave, minds to be corrected and it will be done in His name.
God bless you.

Sorry, beettha, people that believe in such nonsense lack education. In one source 41% of people that went to high school believe the Bible as the word of God, only 2 % of people that graduate college believe the bible is real. That should tell you something. There are thousands of Gods that have come and gone way before your god. Sorry, no demons, angels or anything. There are very few Biblical scholars that take the Bible literally most are Atheists, again that should tell you something.

workerbee

Why did you post the question?

The wages of sin is DEATH.
Fortunately God uses Christians like us to pray for you.
Ask God to forgive you of your sins.
Jesus died for you and wll forgive you, if you repent.

The God of this word (Satan) blinds ignorant non-believers like yourself who make such comments in blindnes.
You don't realise the implications of your disbelief in God who created you and loves you.

By the way:

Don't post any more responses and write questions that don't require an answer when you have made up your own mind.

You waste everybody's time and I won't read from you again.

Thank you, God Bless You.

You sound like all Christians, angry as hell. Everything I said is a fact. People with your ignorance cause all problems that we have in the world today. I just answered a question and you get upset typical Christian ( quick to judge and slow to learn) If you don't want read my replies in the future DON'T I couldn't care less I will still write. I try to enlighten
People with what is known by biblical scholars and you in your ignorance behave the way people did in Mideavel times
Pathetic

May Atheism bless you with understanding

workerbee

heres a question and i would like to get a christian (especially catholic) point of veiw on this.
what is your beleif about demons? do they exist and do they mess with us in a spiritua sense? can one really be posessed??
i have a friend who has a severe seizure disorder, and he is a devout christian. he is mentally sound and i trust him a lot. he claims that when he has a seizure, during the end of it in his hypnotic like state, he sees demons and angels as well. he says one demon in particular has a name he never heard before: "Abatu". he is terrified. he said the angels are almost as terrifying only in a different way. i have been there for some of his seizures and he is getting more scared with each one, scared of what he is seeing and scared of being alone in this. he says he trusts Jesus and asks me to start praying when he feels a seizure coming on, stating that this demon figure he sees hates the word of God and is deterred by it. he has warned me not to pursue this and not to research it, stating that it is very dangerous ground that i dont want to be poking around in. but of course, i am curious.
has anyone studies this subject, and what do you think of this??

The biggest lie satan has ever created is that there are no demons. He has done this to cause God-fearing Christians to stray from the roots of their faith. Demons very much exist, just as satan. They are very dangerous as their only mission is to confuse, lie to, and lead others astray from God's word. They are the damned. They have absolutely no hope of regaining God's trust in them and thus, they serve the opposite purpose of good. They dedicate themselves to this task. I have indeed studied this subject. I am a Christian (Born Again) and there is much to say about this matter because it is important that people know and understand the dangers in being mislead. Remember, "all that glitters is not gold". Satan can present himself as an angel of shining light -- but only for a very short period. Therefore, his mission is to seduce the weak in spirit and convert them into God-less beings who will do his bidding.

Demons are specialists in all that God abhors! They do not practice generalities, they *specialize* in the bad facets and temptations that those who are not careful can fall prey upon. There is a demon of seizures. There are some who will justify it by other means but the fact remains that conditions in the human body that are not normal to everyone else represent a significant departure from what God would give unto us -- good health! It is difficult to ascertain why some have this horrible condition but there are many different reasons for it, too numerous to mention here. Needless to say, for all dis-ease, visiting a qualified and licensed health care professional is certainly to be considered. In addition, PRAYER to the Father IN THE NAME of His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ is the KEY. Remember, Jesus cast out demons. The Book of Matthew points this out. Please read the following Scriptures that give Testimony of Jesus' Power to Heal those Possessed:

"And His (Jesus Christ's) fame went throughout all Syrai: and they brought unto Him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were POSSESSED with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and He healed them." -- MATTHEW 4:24 (KJV)

"When the even (evening) was come, they brought unto Him many that were POSSESSED with devils: and He cast out the spirits with His Word, and healed all that were sick:" -- MATTHEW 8:16 (KJV)

"And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the POSSESSED of the devils." -- MATTHEW 8:33 (KJV)

"As they went out, behold, they brought to Him a dumb man POSSESSED with a devil." -- MATTHEW 9:32 (KJV)

"Then was brought unto Him one POSSESSED with a devil, blind, and dumb: and He healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw." -- MATTHEW 12:22 (KJV)

The Book of Mark also contains some accounts of Possession and Jesus' healing of it.

"And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto Him all that were diseased, and them that were POSSESSED with devils." -- MARK 1:32 (KJV)

"And they come to Jesus, and see him that was POSSESSED with the devil, and had the Legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was POSSESSED with the devil, and also concerning the swine." -- MARK 5:15-16 (KJV)

"And when He was come into the ship, he that had been POSSESSED with the devil prayed Him that He might be with him." -- MARK 5:18 (KJV)

The Book of Luke also follows with an example of Possession and Jesus' healing of it.

"They also which saw it told them by what means he that was POSSESSED of the devils was healed." -- LUKE 8:36 (KJV)

Likewise, in Acts of the Apostles:

"For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were POSSESSED with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed." -- ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 8:7 (KJV)

"And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel POSSESSED with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: " -- ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 16:16 (KJV)

I have presented all of these Scriptures concerning 'possession' so that you and others may not think this was just an isolated thing in the time of Christ. Indeed, it existed then just as it exists now. And remember that Jesus has also empowered Christians to cast out demons! So, one must know that it is only by Prayer and Fasting that God can infuse into the afflicted His Divine healing power and it is also very important that the afflicted pray for themselves also as do others. So, yes, demons indeed do exist! Have no doubts about that! Keep Your Faith in Jesus Strong Always! Be cautious, be wary, be attentive to your own spiritual well-being and never dash your foot against a stone lest you fall unto the path of the evil one.

Hey skygem, I want to ask one thing If you answer try to be polite and I will respond politely. We may not agree with each other but we should listen. Here is my question
Just because it is written in the Bible means nothing What other sources do you have to prove that angels,demons exist? If none other then you must see my point. Many, many problems with that book The Bible can say what it wants but that doesn't mean anything. Let me give an example you will ignore but I hope you will try to read because it is a fact. Prayer, we always hear about it but it NEVER works. Here is how we know. The AHJ decided to answer this question once and for all it conducted a 3 year, 2.4 million dollar, 1800 (heart)patient. No one got better The conclusion was that prayer does not work. I can post the link if you like but I doubt you will read it. The only prayer that seems to work is vague prayer like I hope it rains, sooner or later it will rain. That kind of thing
If you really want to learn more read what Bibical scholars know it is very interesting

workerbee

Hey skygem, I want to ask one thing If you answer try to be polite and i will respond politely. We may not agree with each other but we should listen. Here is my question
Just because it is written in the Bible means nothing

It actually means EVERYTHING! The Bible is the inspired Word of God. There are some who misinterpret the Bible, however, to suit their own purposes but that does not change God's word from being infallable. I do not expect you to understand that as you are obviously anti-Christian. If you want to learn more about Christianity, however, and that's why you're here in a Christian forum, then I would be most happy to help you.

What other sources do you have to prove that angels,demons exist?

Christians do not need "other sources" as skeptics do in order to prove the existence of angels and demons.

I have quoted from the Holy Bible offering proof of the existence of demons. You may of course choose to not believe if that is your leaning. As to angels, there is an angel of the Annunciation that announced when Jesus was going to be born. Aside from that this is what Scripture says about angels (there are many more Scriptural passages besides these):

"And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city." -- GENESIS 19:15 (KJV)

"And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him." -- GENESIS 32:1 (KJV)

"The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, the holy place." -- PSALMS 68:17 (KJV)

"For He shall give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways." -- PSALM 91:11 (KJV)

"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. " -- MATTHEW 13:49-50 (KJV)

There are so many other references to God's angels as well as to demons, as I have quoted before. If you, however, want to know about man's experiences with demons or angels, I am sure you can simply Google the phrase or word intended and come up with great information!

We Christians believe our God Jesus Christ (who is ONE in the Holy Trinity) and that suffices for us. Un-believers, by virtue of their pseudonym, do not believe how we could, but we can and that is what makes us Strong Christians. However, for those who have a different religion or viewpoint, there is empirical evidence sustaining the fact that angels and demons indeed do exist. It is obvious that you are not open to learning about the Christian religion, therefore, I feel further discussion would fall on deaf ears and would prove to be an exercise in futility as well as detract from my time in helping those who come here who truly want to learn about Christianity. As a matter of principle, I do not discuss Christianity with those who do not want to learn more about it or have a closed mind. For those with an open mind, I am always happy to discuss matters further as they search for Christ.

if none other then you must see my point. Many, many probelms with that book The Bible can say what it wants but that doesn't mean anything.

You will remember what you said when you make your transition and stand before God in judgment. But you will not have to explain to me why you did not believe, but to God. I hope you amend your ways of thinking before your appointed time comes for you to pass. I say that because God created you too and despite your sheer reluctance to accept Him that is an undeniable fact.

let me give an example you will ignore but I hope you will try to read because it is a fact. Prayer, we always hear about it but it NEVER works.

Prayer works for those Christians who Believe and have Faith and who have given their life to Jesus since they are now aligned with Him, He, likewise is closer to them in their time of need. I will not speak as to other religions and what they believe since we are a Christianity forum. If prayer does not work for you or other atheists then you need look no further than your lack of belief. The moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior things would start to change so that your view point would actually change also about prayer. Try it and see! What would it hurt but your ego yet your life would surely change and if you became Born Again you would be given Salvation what every Christian looks forward to at the point of their passing. That may not mean much to you now but believe me, it WILL when it comes time!

here is how we know. The AHJ decided to answer this question once and for all it conducted a 3 year, 2.4 million dollar, 1800 (heart)patient. No one got better The conclusion was that prayer does not work. I can post the link if you like but I doubt you will read it. The only prayer that seems to work is vague prayer like I hope it rains, sooner or later it will rain. That kind of thing
If you really want to learn more read what Bibical scholars know it is very interesting

workerbee
When prayer does not work it is because of different factors. One of them could be the person's lack of belief that they will actually be healed. Secondly, there are people who simply want to hold on to their dis-ease simply because being ill can get them the help and attention they might not otherwise have received. Likewise, they may not want to truly change or strange as it may seem, some people's heart is not in wanting to get well so God actually honors their request. Thirdly, there may be lessons that were pre-ordained that the person may need to learn with that illness. If they did not undergo that kind of trial with the illness they may never learn what must be learned for greater spiritual elevation. Know that not everyone who cries out "Lord, Lord!" is going to be healed. There is so much more to that and a person has to be with God and with His teachings in order for God to truly feel a positive benefit to their health is warranted. And surely, to make a person well, as in to heal those who simply want to continue to sin and cause others to sin would not be conducive to the true principles of Divine healing.

Like I said, if you want to learn more on how to become a Christian and that is why you have entered into this forum, I will be glad to work with you and continue to have discourse but if you merely want to present your point of view that is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christianity in order to take my time which is better used to help those wanting to learn more about God and to align with Him, then I must help those who are seeking Christ in their life. I hope you understand my mission as I do yours.

Well, skygem you answered politely, so thanks for that, you should not be so quick to dismiss what I say about prayer. I was a Chrsitian for many years but I always thought it was nonsense so I started reading from scholars, people who make a living knowing the Bible, it's history etc. That's how I changed over the years to become an Atheist. If you believe in prayer you can try this which will fail. Go and pray for an amputee, so he/her gets back a limb. Guarantee will not work. You and others will have excuses but the answer is that prayer is not real. I think the reason Atheism is growing worldwide is because people are tired of waiting for prayer to work, or jesus coming down, all of the empty promises. I think everyone is now realizing that these are just stories, superstitions, fokelore, that kind of thing

workerbee

Well, skygem you answered politely, so thanks for that, you should not be so quick to dismiss what i say about prayer. I was a Chrsitian for many years but i always thought it was nonsense so i started reading from scholars, people who make a living knowing the Bible, it's history etc. That's how I changed over the years to become an Athiest. If you believe in prayer you can try this which will fail. Go and pray for an amputee, so he/her gets back a limb. Guarantee will not work. You and others will have excuses but the answer is that prayer is not real. I think the reason Atheism is growing worldwide is because people are tired of waiting for prayer to work, or jesus coming down, all of the empty promises. I think everyone is now realizing that these are just stories, superstitions, fokelore, that kind of thing

workerbee

Greetings. I decided to respond to you again because of what you have said in your posting that you were a Christian once. Many people who start as being Christians are mislead in one way or another to believe "man's" way. And of course, that leads to the ultimate deception because you and I both know that many in the world today are not Believers in the Word of God. Therefore, they will try to confuse the issue and bring in information that would try to dispute Biblical healings. That they cannot do but they will present an argument, much like yours about the amputee. Trying to regrow a limb is possible but only with the help of God. Man's desire by itself, no matter how strong, is still no match for God's healing since God has to first give His permission for healing to occur. And of course, if one tried to go to an amputee right now and pray for his or her leg to grow back, it more than likely would not simply because God will not be mocked in that manner. God does not have to prove anything to anyone. It is like the devil tempting Jesus at the top of the mountain. Jesus responded by saying "Get thee behind me satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (LUKE 4:8 (KJV) This was a great temptation by the adversary and thus many of his followers today will use the same kind of tactics to try to get good Christians to try "experiments" just to see how successful they are. What those people who may be so foolish as to try to take them up on that may not realize is that when trying to perform such a feat, the Power is all in Jesus not on the individual testing Jesus and it is an affront to Him to test God and His healing since all healing comes from God. Those who would try to mock God or test Him will also find the fruits of their labor in due time and let me tell you the results won't be very pretty.

I'm afraid the real danger is in non-Believers who try to portray themselves as somehow being superior to God because of their beliefs. They must remember that God created them too! He does allow them to carry on simply because He gave them Free Will choice but there are consequences in the end they must remember. So, they must be cautious as to how far they go with this line of deception. Somehow, I feel there is a side to you that is searching for a way to come back to Christianity. You have been led here for a reason. If the stifling power of atheism has not got a complete stronghold on you, and even if it has, there is still Hope! Search deep inside yourself and see the side that was once Strong and Happy in knowing that you were not alone and that an animal did not make you, nor a tree, nor a rock but GOD! And you are still God's child but have been terribly misled by the company you keep and what you read. Deep down you still know that but cannot acknowledge it because of the stranglehold this belief system has on you. Let me know if you want to know more about how to RELEASE this stranglehold. I can work with you if you wish and would be most happy to!

Now, concerning your hypothesis that prayer does not work, I would like for you to take a good look at the following Internet websites that offer a much different opinion and even EVIDENCE to the contrary. Before you say no, look at these, read through them and then come back and tell me if there is any comparable power in the Universe, other than God, who could accomplish all those things through prayer.

A great website full of testimonies not only from individuals but from prestigious universities, etc. attesting to the power of prayer!
Miracles of Prayer :: Research Studies (http://miraclesofprayer.com/pages/research.htm)

Great Testimonies from wonderful people! Can Prayer Heal? (http://www.webmd.com/content/pages/4/3734_7224.htm)

A fantastic website and not just for Christians! Testimonies of how God has answered our prayers (http://aprayer.net/testimonies.htm)

Please keep an Open Mind when you read what many professionals and others are saying and you should soon find that there is evidence to the contrary of what you have been taught or the opinion you have reached about prayer.

Trying to grow a limb with prayer is impossible, it has never happened and been researched I might add. No one is mocking God. I learned years ago prayer doesn't work because I tired praying for people when I was young they had physical problems, never worked no matter how hard I tried, at the time I thought the problem was me, but the truth God does not exist. As far as the links you gave me testimonials don't mean much so I didn't read all of them They had people invetisgate these faith healers many people went onstage screaming they were cured next day they talked to people that claimed they were cured and were in fact not. They were caught up in the moment, and peer pressure that sort of thing. Pretty interesting no one of the hundreds that claimed cures were not cured after all. As far as the first link I wanted to address that , they are vague in other words if you think you will be cured you might in fact feel better but that is not God it is power of suggestion. That's how new medicines are tested, you need to weed out power of suggestion (placebo)so the AHJ fixing flaws in earlier studies (like power of suggetion) launched the biggest study that I have ever heard about and the conclusion was Prayer does not work though they use bigger words
Please read the link and this was made in2006 the latest research out there. Placebo effect cannot cure amputees, or people with a severed spine, etc that is why I use that as an example. The mind is powerful that is why studies like I posted need to be acurate, so I say again prayer unfortunately does not work. Like I said before pray for someone in a wheelchair see what the results will be
American Heart Journal - Abstract: Volume 151(4) April 2006 p 934-942 Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: A multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory pra (http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/amhj/abstract.00000406-200604000-00041.htm;jsessionid=LpvGvRwsxyCmXKTyYRtflQqRb8yq0 qz1354Jx8yTyGs14dCGZnpQ!-636670425!181195628!8091!-1)
The bible is just stories like Noah's ark You know that didn't happen I hope How can yopu get the 30 million known land species on a boat? You might try to read what scholars know about the bible. Reading from just religious writers is one sided
Anyway read the link
Just so you know I am not trying to convert you I was just answering the question about demons

workerbee

The bible is just stories like Noah's ark You know that didn't happen i hope How can yopu get the 30 million known land species on a boat?

God can truly do the IMPOSSIBLE or what may seem 'impossible' to man! Just read MATTHEW 17:20 (KJV) and PHILLIPPIANS 4:13 (KJV). When God guided Noah to build the ark, He knew the capacity it could hold and there is absolutely no good reason for Christians to doubt what God does. Absolutely none, though man may purport to have the answers about what God does and may try to use inaccurate and abstract thinking in the process, it will never compare with God's INFALLIBLE Word.

You might try to read what scholars know about the bible. reading from just religious writers is one sided
anyway read the link

You have to also understand that a great many medical people are not Christian. There are many atheists among them and of course their information would have that slant! This is important to know for balance to the situation. And medicine/science always wants to prove things through empirical evidence. With God's work and His Omnisicent Power, things cannot be readily explained by mere mortals and never will be.

Just so you know I am not trying to convert you i was just answering the question about demons

workerbee

Of course you aren't, because you know it wouldn't work in my case. But I have enjoyed having this conversation with you, and as mentioned previously, I must now turn my full attention to helping those who are truly seeking God.

SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations. When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen. Other religions think there way is best which can cause wars, etc. The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations.

What mistranslations?


When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen.

Because it is.. It is the only absolute truth we have in this world. Every other truth is relative.


The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period

This your opinion not fact.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by workerbee
SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations.

what mistranslations??

Quote:
When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen.

because it is.. It is the only absolute truth we have in this world. Every other truth is relative.

Quote:
The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period

This your opinion not fact.
Yes, sassyT, you are correct in this. Your replies are in purple. In addition, those interested may wish to look at the following most informative Internet website! You may also wish to pay close attention to the paragraph on "SIR WILLIAM RAMSEY".

The Holy Bible, Proof the Holy Bible is true, Proof the Holy Bible has supernatural origins, the Bible & the Torah Codes, Bible sermons messages articles by Max Solbrekken World missions, www.mswm.org.. (http://www.mswm.org/sciencebible.htm)

A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary. Here is one example of a mistranslation. The crossing of the Red sea never happened the bible actually says they crossed the sea of reeds. When that part was translated it was assumed they meant the red sea. The marsh area the jews crossed ( by the way there is NO evidence that this story is even remotely true)
That area is 8 to 10 inches of water and at low tide is dry. When you say a LIE long enough it becomes the truth.

workerbee

The original question concerning demons has taken a serious turn 180 degrees to the other side by anti-Christians in an attempt to obfuscate the original question and issue in support of demons, I'm afraid. If there is a way to do this, they will find it, be assured of that! There are some who visit here who have brought out absurdities and endless theories as there are their theorists. One such thing is the Red Sea vs. Sea of Reed thing. The Holy Bible actually says the Red Sea is what Moses parted at God's direction. This is referred to actually as the Red Sea in HEBREWS 11:29 (KJV). Another factor about the "reed thing" is that reeds do not grow in salt water! And the Sea of Reeds is a swampy area to the North of the Red Sea, not where Pharaoh's army was drowned by God's Power. Reeds, incidentally, are also known as papyrus which the Egyptians used and continue to use today. 1 KINGS 9:26 shows it is the RED SEA. If what the anti-Christians are actually saying were to be true, then Pharaoh's army would have DROWNED in the 8 TO 10 inches of water they passed through! We must then deduct How WONDERFUL is God's Power to take care of these soldiers in such a small amount of water!

God, again, can truly Perform Miracles! Of course, closed-minded skeptics, especially heretics, will never understand that or want to understand that. The attempt to discredit Biblical Truths will continue, most unfortunately, under the guise that man knows more than God. But God actually allows this, just to Prove them WRONG in the end. Since they do not appear to realize this, their games will thus, most likely, continue but God's Glory will indeed Prove Them Wrong at God's appointed time.

Skygem you are correct that this thread took a 180 degree turn. Now let me answer you question. First off I am not making this up. Read below
However, apart from the matter of the number of people is an even more significant issue. The problem is that the biblical account never refers to the Red Sea by name. In fact, nowhere in the entire Old Testament Hebrew text is the body of water associated with the exodus ever called the "Red Sea." Instead in the Hebrew text the reference is to the yam suph. The word yam in Hebrew is the ordinary word for "sea," although in Hebrew it is used for any large body of water whether fresh or salt. The word suph is the word for "reeds" or "rushes," the word used in Ex. 2:3, 5 to describe where Moses' basket was placed in the Nile. So, the biblical reference throughout the Old Testament is to the "sea of reeds" (e.g. Num 14:25, Deut 1:40, Josh 4:23, Psa 106:7. etc.).

The translation "Red Sea" is simply a traditional translation introduced into English by the King James Version through the second century BC Greek Septuagint and the later Latin Vulgate. It then became a traditional translation of the Hebrew terms. However, many modern translations either translate yam suph as "Sea of Reeds" or use the traditional translation and add a footnote for the Hebrew meaning.


You are reading a mistranslation, When I first saw this on TV it mentions the drowning as the jews attacking the egyptians in the marsh and killing them (tey don't mean a literal drowning you need to educate yourself) That's why you should read from other sources instead of being a close-minded person. To believe in Noah's ark ,a young earth, that is sad
Let me finish by saying there are no demons, only the ones are in people's minds so rachie doesn't have a thing to worry about. Back on topic

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary. Here is one example of a mistranslation. The crossing of the Red sea never happened the bible actually says they crossed the sea of reeds. When that part was translated it was assumed they meant the red sea. The marsh area the jews crossed ( by the way there is NO evidence that this story is even remotely true)
That area is 8 to 10 inches of water and at low tide is dry. When you say a LIE long enough it becomes the truth.

Workerbee if your "reed sea theory" is correct then that means God did an even greater mirracle by drowning thousands of egyptian soldiers and their charriots in 8-10inches of water..lol :D

Exodus 14vs 26-28
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand over the sea, that the waters may come back upon the Egyptians, on their chariots, and on their horsemen.” 27 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and when the morning appeared, the sea returned to its full depth, while the Egyptians were fleeing into it. So the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea. 28 Then the waters returned and covered the chariots, the horsemen, and all the army of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them. Not so much as one of them remained.

Skygem you are correct that this thread took a 180 degree turn.

Yes, it has. This new subject matter has nothing to do with demons other than the ones who control infidels to write the kind of garbage that is designed to obfuscate the way the Bible is actually written.


(tey don't mean a literal drowning you need to educate yourself) That's why you should read from other sources instead of being a close-minded person.

That is a typical infidel's way of feeling, I'm sure. But the fact is that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God and though you and your flock do not believe that it is does not change the meaning and information contained therein. Again, man's interpretation, mostly from un-Believers would have Christians believe that they have found the miraculous panacea to what they believe is "mistranslations". There are none. Christians stand by the Holy Bible 100% and therefore no amount of arguing is going to change GOD'S WORD. That's the way it is, like it or not.

To believe in Noah's ark ,a young earth, that is sad

Actually what is truly sad is to be God-less and believe that man is better than God and has all the answers as you believe.

Let me finish by saying there are no demons, only the ones are in people's minds so rachie doesn't have a thing to worry about. Back on topic
workerbee

Demons most certainly exist except to those who may be in legion with them. But afterall, "can satan cast out satan?" (MARK 3:23 KJV) Infidels have a one-track mind and try to espouse their gross inaccuracies in this forum and so many other places to try to sway Christian minds. It won't work, of course, no matter how hard you try to present your "case" that is full of holes. If you were with God and Believed in Him, He would show you the TRUTH to this matter by way of the Holy Spirit. Enough said.

[QUOTE=workerbee]A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary.

You are so ignorant on the subject its scary. The Bible is a reliable historic document. Most of the historical events are confirmed by other non biblical writings. For example, the Ancient Egyptians wrote about the calamities that God sent to Pharaoh at his refusal to releace the Isrealits. It was even documented by the Egyptians that the rivers turned to blood. That is just one example of the Bible's Historicity. So before you emabarrase yourself I would do a little more search on the subject. :rolleyes:

First off the drowning is a metaphor, possibly, sassy, it is not my reed theory it is written in the HEBREW BIBLE as reed never Red but you don't care about that. I know why you are calling me ignorant, it's because you know in the back of your mind I have good points and it frightens you. Now let's not disrepect this forum or this thread let's get back on topic. They are no demons or angels think about it why would an angel need wings it is not aerodynamically sound. It is symbolism only. Please stay on topic PM me if you want to talk of other things.

workerbee

Can I just say for those who do believe in the Bible, the reason the study proving prayer doesn't work "proved it" is that it clearly says in the Bible "Do not test the Lord"? Even Jesus would not command something to watch God perform! He knew better than that.

It is just the way you look at it. Trying to help someone is not testing god, the study was done to answer the question once and for all. Earlier studies were flawed. That was why the study was made. The other reason was if prayer is true it would help people and doctors would incorporate it in treating patients. Again just christian excuses for God not doing a thing. I don't pretend to have all of the answers but come on. Read my thread on taking the bible literally.


P.s the reed thing and my other suggestions are from bibical scholars
workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]First off the drowning is a metaphor, possibly, sassy, it is not my reed theory it is written in the HEBREW BIBLE as reed never Red but you don't care about that.

Workerbee, your "reed sea" conspiracy theory falls apart right there Because the Hebrew does not say the reed sea. This is what the encyclopidia says about your theory.

Wikipedia Says

"It has been argued that the Hebrew name that has been translated as "The Red Sea" (Yam Suph) may not refer to the Red Sea, but rather to a "Sea of Reeds" (Yam Suphim), despite the fact that later books of the Bible refer to the Red Sea port of Aqaba as being located on Yam Suph.

The theory that Yam Suph was a small, marshy body of swampwater to the north of the Red Sea allows for a non-supernatural interpretation of the crossing. It does not, however, explain the subsequent drowning of several thousand soldiers in the same body of water."



I know why you are calling me ignorant, it's because you know in the back of your mind I have good points and it frightens you

I am not saying you are ignorant in general. I am just saying you seem very ignorant in this particular subject matter. Clearly you need to do a little more reading and research before you make statements that make you look ignorant and uninformed.





Now let's not disrepect this forum or this thread let's get back on topic. They are no demons or angels think about it why would an angel need wings it is not aerodynamically sound. It is symbolism only. Please stay on topic PM me if you want to talk of other things.

I was just responding to your reed theory, so you need to take your own advice and stop bringing up things that have nothing to do with the subject of the discussion.

It is just the way you look at it. trying to help someone is not testing god, the study was done to answer the question once and for all. earlier studies were flawed. that was why the study was made. the other reason was if prayer is true it would help people and doctors would incorporate it in treating patients. Again just christian excuses for God not doing a thing. I don't pretend to have all of the answers but come on. read my thread on taking the bible literally.


P.s the reed thing and my other suggestions are from bibical scholars
workerbee


Here is an independent study done on prayer which concluded that God does answer prayer. I can be a witness to that because God has answered all my prayers.

Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html)

I am going to read that study. You seem to want to get around what I am saying though, prayer may help in some cases (placebo effect) I have not read this study yet so I don't know what it says, but as far as your prayers being answered well.. . Lots of people say that, that is why everyone fool themselves. Ask to regrow someone's limbs, with this war we have no shortage of amputees. I am willing to bet you won't because you know I am right
Think about it if someone prayed for an amputee and it worked then the news would beamed around the world in seconds. Let's not kid ourselves. Prayer is BS it never worked for anyone I prayed to when I was a Christian, put my bet to the test sassy, we will see who is right.

workerbee

Here is an independent study done on prayer which concluded that God does answer prayer. I can be a witness to that because God has answered all my prayers.

Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html)

I will also witness for God through His Only Divine Son Jesus Christ of the many miracles He has performed in my life and continues to. I have witnessed many times before on the power of prayer to God and it is a true blessing to be able to do that for Jesus. So extraordinary were the things He granted me with Love that there can absolutely be no one but GOD who could have accomplished them so rapidly in my time of need.

Thank you for presenting the link to the scientific studies done on prayer and how prayer indeed DOES effect a person's overall health and well-being. I just wanted to point out to you, though you may undoubtedly already know, that without God's Spirit, a person will see even these scientific studies of a spiritual nature and may not believe them. Here is what the Holy Bible has to say about these people.

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth; but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:12-14 (KJV)

Therefore, infidels cannot know of the power of prayer because it is discerned spiritually and in their non-belief they have recoiled from the TRUTH as God has presented and may continue to blindly argue going around in circles and grasping for ways to disprove that which God has done but it cannot be disproved because it is from God, their Creator and Ours. Those studies were well presented and only those with an already closed mind would tend to discount them. All others who know how the power of prayer to God works in their life could readily attest to its effectiveness.

I also very much enjoyed reading the information in one of the other links given Scientific Studies that Show a Positive Effect of Religion on Health (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religionhealth.html)

I am looking into that study but I already know the answer prayer does not work. AT ALL
Skygem, you just think it works, it's you living in a make believe world If you look you will see my study at the bottom that page it shows no difference of the people who were prayed to and a third group who KNEW they were beiong prayed for did WORSE, I wonder why?Of course being close-minded you will ignore that and ignore what sassy has ignored growing new limbs on a amputee. That is impossible I will bet on that. Don't take that bet Skygem or you will lose eveything. You'll wind up in the poor house saying I still believe the lord. If God can't cure an amputee that he is as impotent as a 95 year old man
As far as positive effects on health believe or not I agree with you that believing in anything can make a person's outlook much better but it does not prove prayer. Stop answering this thread and start praying for an amputee see how far that gets you.
Prove me wrong

Woerbee

Stop answering this thread and start praying for an amputee see how far that gets you.
prove me wrong

woerbee

All healing comes from God in His time and His own way and no one must test the Lord. Satan tried to tempt Jesus in the high mountain also, just like you, but he could not and Jesus won that battle for us at the cross. As it concerns your post, I have a much better solution to this. I will ask everyone to start praying for you as you are obviously a lost soul and I don't believe you want to stay that way since God made you too, therefore you keep reaching out to me and others through your posts in this Christian forum. But all Hope is not lost through Jesus Christ! Somehow the adversary's grip has gotten ahold of you tightly and causes you to spew forth the things you do to try to discredit the Lord Our God but know that no matter how hard you try, it will not ever work. If you are trying to recruit more heathens here, do know that this is a Christian forum and while there are many astute people in the world today, they can readily recognize your kind of propaganda that can only lead to the ruination of souls.

You may be correct that the adversary(Satan or common sense ) has gotten a tight grip on me, but if you are honest and I from your posts I think you are then aleast admit that I have a point, by the way I am not tempting Christ it would be illogical. If you helped an amputee you would also shut me up that's why you say satan has me because you could never be wrong .When was a kid I had to go to catechism there I was taught about jesus and prayer, I thought prayer was great, I was kid what did I know. One day I decided to prayer for people without them knowing it. They never got better. Ever I am talking about people with severe problems Never any better, that did not change me but planted a seed which grew into what I am today, as I stated before I was a Christian for many years and I did not change overnight it was long process and when I first realized there is no god I was depressed as hell but I got over it, and what I have said is not propaganda,
You want me to see the light then prove me wrong but you can't can you because you
Are living in a make believe world and you might even know it

workerbee

You may be correct that the adversary(Satan or common sense ) has gotten a tight grip on me, but if you are honest and i from your posts i think you are then aleast admit that i have a point,

The right path to healing begins when a person faced with a difficult situation in their life can admit openly and honestly that there are powers beyond their control that have "lobbied" them day and night to believe in ways that are so displeasing to God. And yes, by admitting this, you do have a point and it is a valid one! But you can find your way out of this tempest, this storm, because Jesus will not give up on you. Don't you give up on Him either! He Loves You, my friend, and that is why He has sent me, a stranger to you, to continue to speak to you about ways in which you can break away from the tight grip satan has on you, that you have now admitted is stifling your sense of reasoning or common sense such as to deny the great gift that God has given unto you and me, the ability to witness for Him instead of cast Him down.


by the way i am not tempting Christ it would be illogical.

And you know, you don't have to continue to say the kind of things you do such as ask about limbs growing through prayer because surely you are intelligent enough to understand that that is the equivalent of a person asking for a million dollars to manifest for them after prayers. Clearly, there are some things that the Good Lord grants and others He does not grant. He, and only He knows the answer as to why. Most times, it is because it would not befit the person who prays for them or they would miss an important lesson in life. Also, we can never test Him just to see if His Word is true. God does not take kindly to that since who, as mortals, are we to ask God, Our Creator, to prove His mercy upon others. That is dangerous territory and if someone has put you up to this or you read somewhere to ask that question, then you must not listen as The Lord Our God Must Not Be Tempted. Whether you consider what you have asked for to be funny or serious, you still asked for it. It has been duly recorded in the Book of Life and is one more thing to answer for at your appointed time. I, for one, would like to see your slate clean! I would like nothing more than to see you ascend to your judgment and for Jesus to Welcome You Home With Open Arms! And to think that the way for that is so near, so easy, and so non-costly! Just by Accepting Jesus into your life and leaving all of the former rhetoric by the wayside that is only excess garbage you are carrying through life right now like an albatross around your neck. The questions, the innuendos, the man said this and man said that, etc. are things that are not positive and productive in your life. You must ask yourself, did man create God and therefore knows unequivocally more about how God works or is it the other way around? I know you must be intelligent enough to know that a rock or a tree or the ocean did not create you. You know better! There is a way out -- and it is not too late at this point. Just know that if you chose to leave your way of thinking today, Jesus would Accept you and FORGIVE you for your past if you but ask Him with a contrite heart and willingness to change. For is it better to have God with you or against you? That is the ultimate question. Remember what has happened to those who chose to have God against them i.e., Lucifer. He is paying eternally for that free will choice and is under un-cancellable damnation. But he had a clear choice, just like you, remember that.

If you helped an amputee you would also shut me up that's why you say satan has me because you could never be wrong .

You must not continue to tell me to "eat the apple from the forbidden tree". You know that is wrong and I won't take the bait. But it is not hurting me, it is ultimately hurting you. Right now, there are others who would like for me to join them in fellowship, but I have chosen to remain here and forego having a good time outdoors so that I can sit here and speak to you about Jesus because He Loves You and your spirit in the Afterlife is worth saving now. Don't continue to offend Him. Every day you wake up and go about your day and have something to eat and a roof over your head, it is not I who give that to you but Jesus! When you are not sick and able to get up and not laboring in a big sweat, thank GOD for that! Your other "friends" who indoctrinate you the wrong way don't care if you're dying, remember that. Will they sit by you and see that you heal, if it is God's will for you to (and you have to agree, many times it is!), and tell you wonderful things about the Power of Christ? No. Never. For the spirit of anti-Christ abounds. They_Do_Not_Care! Sad but true. So, it's time to fight this penchant to ask about the amputee. Are you an amputee by the way? Are you embittered because you have prayed and God has not healed your condition? Well, even if you aren't an amputee, you have something very important that has been cut off from your life -- JESUS! And even an amputee would rather exist in that physical state and have Jesus in their life because if they were Christian, they would know that that condition is only for a short time while they are in physical life. But life does not last forever. They would also have something wonderful to look forward to -- ETERNAL LIFE in spirit, a state of being where they will be Completely FREE of any physical defects they had in this Earth life and will be PERFECT in God's eyes! That is why they would gladly remain in their condition if it was not God's will to heal them and make them whole. God knows the WHY to things. We do not. It is not for us to question as it makes us look like fools before God when we do.

When was a kid i had to go to catechism there i was taught about jesus and prayer, I thought prayer was great, I was kid what did I know.

Fortunately, you knew far better then than you apparently do now.

one day i decided to prayer for people without them knowing it. They never got better. ever I am talking about people with severe problems Never any better, that did not change me but planted a seed which grew into what i am today, as i stated before I was a Christian for many years and i did not change overnight it was long process and when i first realized there is no god i was depressed as hell but I got over it, and what i have said is not propaganda,

Do you want for me to tell you what may have very well happened there? I will. God is Moving right now in me and wants for you to know that you prayed for many who wished to retain their illness on some level of their being. And since God gave them Free Will choice, by praying for them to be healed, you were interfering with their free will. It was very noble of you to pray for them, make no mistake about that. For I am sure that on some level it did help them as God listens to prayers. But if you did not ask them specifically if they wanted for you to pray for them, then that can be why your prayers for them were never answered and why they did not become better. But even if they had said "Yes!" to pray for them, again, it is like asking a neighbor if they want for you to pray for them to win a million dollars at the lottery. Who would say no! It is simply not meant for most people to escape personal responsibility in this way and for God to simply grant and grant and grant each and every request or their faith would be worthless expecting always to receive and knowing that it would happen regardless. So, even if those people had said yes on the surface, on a deeper inner soul level, their actual answer may have been NO as they needed to retain the experience for their further spiritual growth. Many will readily say "yes" when offered something that they believe would be of benefit to them. Of that there can be no question. But is it actually RIGHT for them IS the question! That is why God did not answer your prayers and here you have been blaming Him all these years and embittering yourself until you too could get sick with all the acrimony you have stored inside of you. It's time to heal, to release this damaged way of thinking! It is time to release this, In the Name of Jesus!

You want me to see the light then prove me wrong but you can't can you because you
are living in a make believe world and you might even know it

No dearheart, that is where you are very wrong. I DO want you to see the Light because God wants for you to see it also! But there is no proving anyone wrong when they are in the Light of Christ! Everyone is right where they are supposed to be! That Light is what will liberate you from the strength of the enemy of your soul! That Light is what will Shine upon your darkest days when you find yourself old and all alone and without anyone to reach out to. That Light is what will serve as a beacon of Truth unto your life. That Light will be your best friend, your Lighthouse that will show you the way Home. That is what I want for you. You know why, because you DESERVE far better, more than you have right now. God gave you your life and even if you have freely chosen to misunderstand Him, He still Loves you in your present state of confusion and denial! He has not forgotten about you and that is why His presence is so Strong here today as I write this to you. Think how long it has taken to answer your few simple sentences. But God wants you to hear all of this so that you will at least consider what is being said, the message that is being brought to you today to show you that He may not have answered your other prayers but He would never forget you! He embraces you and wants to Welcome you back Home as one of His children. I want to see that happen too. Know that where TRUTH is, the devil and all of his lies cannot reside!

workerbee

The Truth shall make you FREE, for you cannot have both Light and Darkness at the same time in the very same place. Go in Peace and ponder on what I have said here but I cannot take much credit for these words that come from God especially for you!

Skygem, I really believe I am correct, the evidence points that I am correct. Being an athesit is the truth and it has set me free.

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee] think about it if someone prayed for an amputee and it worked then the news would beamed around the world in seconds. Let's not kid ourselves. Prayer is BS it never worked for anyone I prayed to when I was a Christian, put my bet to the test sassy, we will see who is right.

Workabee, one thing you need to know is that God is not Magician. You can't just make hocus pocus "prayers" and expect God to perform magic tricks. It does not work that way. Jesus said "they shall lay hands on the sick and sick they shall recover". Recovery is not instant, however God also heals people instantly. There hundred of thousands of people who walk out of wheel chairs every year at healing crusades. There are many stories of people being raised from the dead in many coutries through prayer but you will not see it on the News because people do not believe even the obvious. They try and find natural explanations for such phenonmina.

Like you said yourself, you already "know" prayer does not work, but speak for yourself because God has done amazing miracles in my life and my family. For one thing my brother was diagnosed with full blown AIDS. His health had degraded to the point where he wieghed 55 pounds(this is a 32 year old man). He was wearing diapers because his whole digestive system had given out. Doctors had given him days to live. In his weak state he says he pleaded with God to heal him and give him a second chance at life. Meawhile my mother held intersesory all night prayers. After 3-4 weeks of intense prayer the doctors started to see some improvement in his health. He became conscious afer being unconscious for weeks. Slowly over a period of about 2months in hospital my brother was getting better and better each day. Doctors were in shock because they could not explain the recovery. It just doesn't happen. His T-cells had multiplied in a few months. After about 8 months my brother was fully recovered and HIV negative. The doctors were trying find natural explanation for it but we know it was Our God. From that time I have never doubted God. I just feel sorry for those who don't know him. Today my brother goes Africa on mission trips to share his testimony. So when some like you says prayer does not work, I just shake my head because my experience has been quite the contrary. :)




I

Skygem, i really believe i am correct, the evidence points that I am correct. Being an athesit is the truth and it has set me free.

workerbee

Then there is nothing further I can do for you if this is your final word on this since with your free will you have chosen your ultimate destiny. But know that since you have denied Jesus, He has also denied you before His Father in Heaven and you know that at your appointed time, as per Holy Scripture, you will not be able to enter into eternal bliss in Heaven. I am truly sorry you have chosen this for yourself and for eternity in the Afterlife but it is your choice.

[quote]

Workabee, one thing you need to know is that God is not Magician. You can't just make hocus pocus "prayers" and expect God to perform magic tricks. It does not work that way. Jesus said "they shall lay hands on the sick and sick they shall recover". Recovery is not instant, however God also heals people instantly. There hundred of thousands of people who walk out of wheel chairs every year at healing crusades. There are many stories of people being raised from the dead in many coutries through prayer but you will not see it on the News because people do not believe even the obvious. They try and find natural explanations for such phenonmina.

Like you said yourself, you already "know" prayer does not work, but speak for yourself because God has done amazing miracles in my life and my family. For one thing my brother was diagnosed with full blown AIDS. His health had degraded to the point where he wieghed 55 pounds(this is a 32 year old man). He was wearing diapers because his whole digestive system had given out. Doctors had given him days to live. In his weak state he says he pleaded with God to heal him and give him a second chance at life. Meawhile my mother held intersesory all night prayers. After 3-4 weeks of intense prayer the doctors started to see some improvement in his health. He became conscious afer being unconscious for weeks. Slowly over a period of about 2months in hospital my brother was getting better and better each day. Doctors were in shock because they could not explain the recovery. It just doesn't happen. His T-cells had multiplied in a few months. After about 8 months my brother was fully recovered and HIV negative. The doctors were trying find natural explanation for it but we know it was Our God. From that time I have never doubted God. I just feel sorry for those who don't know him. Today my brother goes Africa on mission trips to share his testimony. So when some like you says prayer does not work, I just shake my head because my experience has been quite the contrary. :)

I

SassyT, that is WONDERFUL news about your brother's healing! PRAISE THE LORD!!! I know that for those who Believe, Jesus is at the center of their need and can bring about MIRACULOUS results as with your brother.

The following site gives examples of what God has done in people's lives to bring them healing! Do scroll down on the right hand side a little and you will find a most interesting healing from God! There are so many people who have been healed through PRAYER as their Belief in God is Strong and Mighty! May God Bless Them Always!

Newday Ministries Pastor Katherine Ruonala Testimonies (http://www.newday.com.au/testimonies/testimonies.htm)

Sassy, I am glad about your brother but what does that prove? The reason I talk about amputees so much is that it can not happen. I know of people with AIDS and they have only slight problems so we don't know enough about that disease yet and how it behaves in the body. Look at magic johnson, he has nothing bothering him, he talked about it when he was on a radio a few years ago but with amputees that's a done deal or kids who have downs syndrome, that's all I am saying, afew years back there was a woman who had Hep C which is an incurable virus like in many cases the illness can go into remmison, some might say GOD it must GOD even though she felt better for time she still HAS the virus in her body Dormant for the time being. You have to be very careful about what you call a miracle. With your brother , I don't know but if you are all praying and he believes that it would work , well the mind is powerful, I don't have to tell you that it is plausible that he would go into remmison, but with some some conditions like losing a limb CANNOT br reversed period. God can't do a thing. Hopefullyyou are getting my point

Also sassy don't be unfair to me. I said I don't believe because I have never seen it when I tried and again about certain conditions that Can't reversed no matter whose god you believe in. that tells me something
Also I noticed you said you did not doubt God after that, which means you had to see something before you believed, we have more in common than I would have thought
The vatican looks into miracles and from what I remember there was only like 61 or so.
After BILIONS of prayers over many many years that's it, come on. (that last part was from memory I will look it up when I have time)
Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period.. . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell. Here is what I think If I am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All I am doing using common sense.



workerbee

Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period. . . . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell. Here is what I think If i am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All i am doing using common sense.
workerbee

The brain and the other things you mentioned will not and cannot bring Salvation for you. There is only ONE way, through acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Savior. But by all means, put it to the test and see what your "common sense" gets you when you stand before God at your judgment and try to use that line on Him as a means to your Salvation (assuming you would even want it later on when the time comes). But that is your problem from now on as you have rejected God and it is now on record.

I am sorry, we know that Jesus even defeated death, so there is nothing beyond what he can do. But it is a fact that death and earthy problems are a part of our life on earth, and Christianity also teaches us how to live and learn to accept those things and have a Christian attitude.

I have seen a boy healed of rocky spoted mountain fever before, spots disappear as we prayed, I have seen many wonders that the Lord has did, and I have seen all of the evils that the world can bring.

Why do you think there is so much medical research going on? It's because prayers don't work, doesn't take a genius. Lots of people pray for a healing then die. Is God fickle? Mean? Bias, racist? Or just plain lazy. The answer is easy

Skygem , you don't make any sense. I told you I was a Christian, during that time I never felt anything. I will trust my common sense over supersition anyday. Let me give a glimpse into the near future they are within 2 or 3 years of killing all cancers, developing nanites (microscopic robots) that will be injected into the blood and do various tasks keeping us healthy, then people will rely less and less on prayer for healing( which is good because it never works)at that point your God becomes less important in the lives of those people, we will only need God for immortality, but wait.. . I read a book that says in 2039 just 31 years from now we will have technology to download our analog brain onto a digital computer chip. I won't go into detail here, I am talking about your memories, sense of humor, etc . Your soul if you will. We will be immortal, never to die On that day your God will die
He will be as worthless as an old paint can.people are only hoping to get into heaven other than that they would ignore God It reminds me of a story about the greek Gods. Zeus is speaking to Hera, his wife.

Zeus: the humans are troublesome
Hera: why do we put up with them?
Zeus: we need them
Hera: Why?
Zeus: Because, when they stop believing in us , we die

So if I will live long enough I will be immortal.

Fr_chuck, you have to be careful what call a miracle, there are claims made all the time. Whenever investigated well lets just say disappointment is the result. That's why I mention certain conditions. Let your God grow limbs on the soldiers coming back from war, he won't do it I wonder why. I guess the poor guy is not as strong as he used to be. You might consider going over and worshipping another God

workerbee

Skygem , you don't make any sense. i told you i was a Christian, during that time i never felt anything. I will trust my common sense over supersition anyday.

And again, when you take that walk after you pass on, you will be alone in that. No one of your friends will be there to speak up for you before your judgment. You may not give it much importance now, but be assured that when the time comes you will wish thousands of times over that you had listened to what Scriptures say about Salvation. By then, it will be too late. But again, put it to the test! Take that risk if you are willing.

Fr_chuck, you have to be careful what call a miracle, there are claims made all the time. Whenever investigated well lets just say disappointment is the result. that's why i mention certain conditions. let your God grow limbs on the soliders coming back from war, he won't do it I wonder why. I guess the poor guy is not as strong as he used to be. You might consider going over and worshipping another God

workerbee

Actually, God HAS grown limbs back for your information! Look at this website and if you have any questions whatsoever, you are free to contact the pastors for further details and information on the MIRACLES that God has done through prayer! Go to the right side and scroll downwards until you get to "Leg Grows". There are many other examples of God's healing power being made manifest through PRAYER! So, there you are, you can no longer say that God cannot grow a limb back as He can do anything that is His Will.

Newday Ministries Pastor Katherine Ruonala Testimonies (http://www.newday.com.au/testimonies/testimonies.htm)

Why do you think there is so much medical research going on? It's because prayers don't work, doesn't take a genius. Lots of people pray for a healing then die. Is God fickle? mean? bias, racist? or just plain lazy. the answer is easy

Skygem , you don't make any sense. i told you i was a Christian, during that time i never felt anything.
workerbee

Oh yeah? You say Prayers don't work? This is something you really need to read! Since you mention "medical research" this is a new item of interest on the Power of God in situations that are extreme and near hopeless. The family involved here PRAYED for a healing of their mother who was actually at death's door, and GUESS WHAT, She Did Not Die! This article should be most convincing since it involves medical personnel who are less likely to believe in MIRACLES.

ABC News: Nearly Dead, Woman Comes Back to Life (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4923465&page=1)

First off skygem, I think you are trying way too hard to convince me I do not pretend to have all of the answers and I have become a bit cynical. Your examples were nothing special . In the second story the woman came back to life but does that happen often, it is a fluke, we don't know enough about the body. That's why when something happens it must be a miracle when it might not be. When my Father was in ICU there was another person who was sick we got to be friends with that family, They were like you Skygem, believing in the Bible as the word of god at least the sister was. They prayed and prayed and she died. The saying we learned was when you are old in the ICU your dead. Which seemed to happen a lot. Pray dosen't seem to help much. Once in while something strange happens it could be God who knows but he is not very consitent, it happens every blue moon so maybe it is not him.in the first story a leg supposely got longer When I was younger my little cousin had retinal blastoma, his parents brought him everywhere, even Boston, a great childerens' hospital. They finally went to a faith healer out of desperation and I went along. Father Diorio, something like that was the name of the faith healer. it was so packed I went up the balcony alone. A man was right in front of me had one leg shorter. The father yelled out some general symptoms and this man's wife said it must be for him so he went to the front of the balcony , the father made
Him say a few things, then said you are healed. The man aknowledged he was healed. Then hobbled back to his wife, leaned over to her, I leaned to hear, and he said" this is Bull...t." " his wife said Shhh shhh don't you embarass me." mean while the huge crowd thought another miracle had occurred which had not
I am speaking about the complete regeneration
Of a limb, fingers nerve endings skin, etc the whole shabang. It does not happen

PS on the history channel they had new info on the exodus you might like to see
With satellite photos they can follow the path of those Jews and discover what happened to them if the story is true. They also found the area the jews crossed, they said sea of reeds, they even know the name of the lake they crossed. I did not see all of it but the conclusion
Is that this story is REAL, I though you might like it. The name of the show is The Exodus decoded on the history channel. Some of the reasoning is very convincing even to the drowning of the egyptians although not the way you think Go on the history.com you might be able to find when they run it again .I want to see the whole show this time

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]sassy, I am glad about your brother but what does that prove? The reason I talk about amputees so much is that it can not happen. I know of people with AIDS and they have only slight problems so we don't know enough about that disease yet and how it behaves in the body. Look at magic johnson, he has nothing bothering him, he talked about it when he was on a radio a few years ago but with amputees that's a done deal or kids who have downs syndrome, that's all I am saying, afew years back there was a woman who had Hep C which is an incurable virus like in many cases the illness can go into remmison, some might say GOD it must GOD even though she felt better for time she still HAS the virus in her body Dormant for the time being. You have to be very careful about what you call a miracle. With your brother , I don't know but if you are all praying and he believes that it would work , well the mind is powerful, I don't have to tell you that it is plausible that he would go into remmison, but with some some conditions like losing a limb CANNOT br reversed period. God can't do a thing. Hopefullyyou are getting my point

A person with full blown AIDS is now healthy and HIV negative. That sound like a miracle to me. Even the non religious doctors said it was a miracle. So you can down play it all you want but that is just your opinion on the matter. The fact still remains that we prayed for healing and he was healed completely. Amen!
Read this Metacrock's Blog: Why Dosn't God heal Stupidity? (http://metacrock.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-dosnt-god-heal-stupidity.html)


also sassy don't be unfair to me. I said I don't believe because I have never seen it when I tried and again about certain conditions that Can't reversed no matter whose god you believe in. that tells me something

Again God is not a magician.



Also I noticed you said you did not doubt God after that, which means you had to see something before you believed, we have more in common than I would have thought

Of course, I don't have blind faith. I believe in God because of what I have seen, heard and felt. I am the kind of person who believes only if there is evidence and there is an insurmountable amount of evidence for God.


The vatican looks into miracles and from what I remember there was only like 61 or so.
After BILIONS of prayers over many many years that's it, come on. (that last part was from memory I will look it up when I have time)

Don't bother... I coundnt care less what the vatican has to say about mirracles. I am not catholic and I doubt the vatican knows about the hundreds of miracles God has done in my life alone.


Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period.. . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell.
Here is what I think If I am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All I am doing using common sense.

Lol actually if God does exist you're screwed :D God gave you a brain and you are not using it. You see everything around you trees, flowers, animals, complex biological systems like the digesive system, reproductive system, immune system etc and you come to the smart conclusion that it just apeared from no where by accident. If you were using your brain and common sense, a reasonable person would conclude that the complexity of design seen in our universe warrants an intelligent designer.
Its just like if I landed on Jupitor and found a complex functional machine that resembles a car and I come to the conclution that it just a apeared on jupitor from no where and evolved over time. A reasonable sensible person would conclude after seeing the machine that there must be intelligent life on Jupitor. Apparently you don't see things that way so God would condemn you for not using the brain he gave you. ;)

So you don't have blind faith but I should have blind faith?
Come on sassy, You are saying that God is not a magician, I agree but he should be able to cure everything but he Can't I wonder why. That should tell an open-minded person something, not you of course Making excuses for your make-believe God? We need more reseacrh to find out why people like your brother was hepled but other prople aren't. To insist that only God cured your brother and it can't be anything else, is incredibly ignorant of any other posibility( shocking) that's how scientist learn , by asking questions not jumping on the God bandwagon. By the way does your brother still have the virus in his body? I am willing to bet he has. You should not show yourself to be so closed minded by dismissing what the Vatican has found they have scientists looking into prayer, not many miracles though, huh.. I think that proves me correct. Whose not using her brain now? When I read that worthless book I came away thinking that your God is a psychopath. I think you need a few weeks in ICU to see the pain and suffering and those people praying to a deaf God.
Read the letters of Mother Terasa, she had doubts about God for almost 50 years
In one letter she said something like When I pray I only get silence in return. Of course you know more than her. Let me guess you don't like her either. Try praying to Zeus you might get better results

How sad for you to be so afraid of God that you have to try to scare people into believing in him LOL If you convert enough people do you get a set of steak knives?



workerbee

(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/sassyt.html)sassyT (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/sassyt.html) disagrees: My brother was healed from full blown AIDS after we had 3 days of intercesion for him. Now he doesn't even have HIV. So don't tell me that God does not answer prayers.I find this very hard to believe. It would be a medical first. I can't believe that you gave someone a reddie for that.

[quote]

A person with full blown AIDS is now healthy and HIV negative. That sound like a miracle to me. Even the non religious doctors said it was a miracle. So you can down play it all you want but that is just your opinion on the matter. The fact still remains that we prayed for healing and he was healed completely. Amen!
Read this Metacrock's Blog: Why Dosn't God heal Stupidity? (http://metacrock.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-dosnt-god-heal-stupidity.html)


SassyT, I, for one of many, Do Believe that God healed your brother of this dreadful dis-ease! God Heals in ways that man knows not of but some un-Believers will argue till they're blue in the face to the contrary. Do not worry, they do not need to be convinced. God Heals and we KNOW that as a Fact! Those infidels are going through their trials right now (though they may not realize it as yet) only to find out, at a later time, that there IS a God after all, the ONE true God spoken about in the Holy Bible. It is literally their funeral if they don't repent before their time to leave this world. But let them be. They need to learn this lesson the hard way all for themselves due to their free will choice!

Here are some wonderful examples of how God has healed people of AIDS through prayer and their Belief!

Read about someone HEALED of AIDS through Prayer!
I Was Healed of AIDS | Worldview Interactive (http://www.wvi.net.au/node/37)

Hospital gives proof he is AIDS free, including a chart! Prayer Indeed Works!
Flame Revival News Online: Jesus Heals David of HIV-AIDS Doctor's said, "This is a miracle" - Sex, Drugs & Rock Xposed... (http://www.flameministries.org/news22.htm#dave)

More WONDERFUL examples of how Jesus Heals AIDS and other dreaded diseases!
Testimonies (http://www.christresurrection.org/Testimonies.html)

Skygem, you never fail to unimpress me. Some of those links are made in Church, you know where all the wackjobs say praise jesus every minute or so. Those mean nothing
Let's examine why. First, I am sure sassy's brother had tons of meds, take away the meds and just pray then he would be in trouble. I guess Jesus needs help with meds now. In africa the death rate for AIDS is much higher, I wonder why. You are not interested in the truth unless it has Jesus attached to it. Read this Study: some AIDS patients recover their immune system | Science Buzz (http://www.smm.org/buzz/blog/study_some_aids_patients_recover_their_immune_syst em)

Did you read my Hep c story the person thought she was cured and had gone into remmission but still has the Hep C virus in her body, which means it can come back and has it some cases. I don't think that would be a cure. The vatican studies these stories of miracles and all they came up with is 61 out billions of prayers, doesn't seem like very good odds. People want to believe so bad they fool themselves. Mother Terasa who was in a part of the world where there was misery, said for her prayers God answered in silence.
Let's not forget that God doesn't cure Amputees, Down's syndrome,etc
This list is long so I won't write it. The Christians claim many, many healings but when investigated usually a disappointment. If those cures you claim were real scientists find will out

Stop ignoring the truth Skygem, join us in the 21st century, the middle ages sucks

P S that why doesn't god heal stupidity page is absolutey correct. That is why metacrock is so stupid

workerbee

Stop ignoring the truth Skygem, join us in the 21st century, the middle ages sucks

P S that why doesn't god heal stupidity page is absolutey correct. That is why metacrock is so stupid

workerbee

"But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But We Have the Mind of Christ." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:10-16 (KJV)

I don't expect you to understand this, but if you did you would know why we Believe and know things as we do.

But you ignore what I have said. You may have read it but not really read it. I have vaild points and I think the difference between us is our personailities. I need to know things and some people feel comfortable believing in something greater than themselves. I go where the evidence leads me to. I believe God answers only the prayers for things that were going to happen anyway.

workerbee

They are real and are very active in the world today. Demons or evil spirits are opportunists and look for moments when a person is vulnerable to "attach" themselves to a person. From that point on they will vex (how demonic attack is described in the Bible). These "doorways" which allow these spirits to enter can occur at any time in a person's life, even early childhood (afterall when is a person more vulnerable than as a child).

That is a time when many fears enter... and "fear" is a spirit... the Bible says "God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and power and a sound mind." Fear especially destroys a sound mind, as evidenced by many different phobias.

To obtain freedom from demonic influence you're not going to find the answers here, where more people who have answered either don't believe in demons or are more interested in attacking those who do.

There are ministries that deal successfully with freeing people from demons, however, don't look for deliverance without making a decision to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is only by His Name and by claiming the Blood, that one can be completely freed from demons.

For more information get the book: "Pigs in the Parlour" by Frank and Ida Mae Hammond.

You might want to visit this blog for more information: Overcome to Victory: What is Vexed? (http://overcome-to-victory.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-is-vexed.html)

That is very interesting but means nothing to any educated person. People who believe in that NONSENSE have very little education about th real world.Those people certainly do not have a college education Demons angels, do not exist except in a story book, period, Prayer does not work as I hope you have read ( I know you will ignore facts) Jesus might never have existed( there were many gods that did what jesus did before jesus ever did them suggesting they were stories) Yeah I am going to waste my time on a blog by some uneducated lunatic

workerbee

[
QUOTE=workerbee]So you don't have blind faith but I should have blind faith?

Do you have a verse in the bible that one should have blind faith? There isn't one. The only reason I even say I have "faith" at all is because know one can know anything with certainty unless they possess absolute knowledge. Neither you nor I have it so what ever it is you believe in, big bang, aliens evolution etc.. It is by faith that you believe it. Even your belief that God does not exist is based on FAITH because you don't know that God does not exists.



Come on sassy, You are saying that God is not a magician, I agree but he should be able to cure everything but he Can't I wonder why. That should tell an open-minded person something, not you of course Making excuses for your make-believe God?

Jesus healed the sick, the blind and raised people from the dead. I do not remember any story in the bible where Jesus magically grows people limbs. Like I said before Jesus said "you shall lay hands of the sick and they shall recover" and that is exactly what happen with my brother. Now, had he said " you shall pray for an amputee and his leg will magically grow a limb" then maybe you would have a case but so far you are fighting a losing battle because no where in the Bible does Jesus promise magic tricks like growing limbs.



We need more research to find out why people like your brother was helped but other prople aren't.

You need not do any research, I have the answer for you right here. ;) Some people's prayers are not answered because of many reasons. Sin, lack of faith and some times what that person is pray for at that time may not be to their best interest at the time. God has for knowledge, He knows the begging from the end. There are people whom God did not answer their prayers and as a result something greater has come out of it. Sometimes people die and it just because it is their time to go. If they are christians they God to a better place.



To insist that only God cured your brother and it can't be anything else, is incredibly ignorant of any other posibility( shocking) that's how scientist learn , by asking questions not jumping on the God bandwagon.

No it is not ignorance it is a miracle from God.. lol like I said if you don't believe it and you have your own theory, that is fine but at the end of the day its your belief vs mine, you have no evidence to support your theory so I will treat is as such, a theory (an assumption or conjecture based on limited knowledge information)


By the way does your brother still have the virus in his body? I am willing to bet he has.

Lol... bet all you want, he is 100% HIV negative healthier than he ever was before. Now he is traveling the world with his wife and kids telling his testimony. He is actually in China right now. He shows slide shows of pictures of when he was sick and many get saved. Try telling him God didn't heal him, he would just laugh in your face.



You should not show yourself to be so closed minded by dismissing what the Vatican has found they have scientists looking into prayer, not many miracles though, huh.. I think that proves me correct. Whose not using her brain now?


I just showed you some double placebo scientific studies that were done on prayer that proves it works so you are the one who is not being open minded. Conveniently.



When I read that worthless book I came away thinking that your God is a psychopath. I think you need a few weeks in ICU to see the pain and suffering and those people praying to a deaf God.

You are talking to the wrong person because the God I know is not deaf. He has answered most of my prayer and the ones he didn't answer, now looking back, I am very glad He didn't.


Read the letters of Mother Terasa, she had doubts about God for almost 50 years
In one letter she said something like When I pray I only get silence in return. Of course you know more than her. Let me guess you don't like her either.

I think you mistaking me for someone who cares about Catholicism. All the people you are quoting are not credible sources as far as I am concerned because the Catholic practices and doctrine are very questionable and are not accepted by many Christians. I couldn't care less what mother Teresa, the Vatican, Pope or who ever had to say about anything. I am not part of the Catholic religion. I don't believe in it. If Mother Teresa Had doubts about God, good for her, likewise Darwin wrote a tone of letters about the doubts he had about his hoax of a theory and yet evolutionist scientist are still worship at the feet of Darwinism. Big deal.


Try praying to Zeus you might get better results

I don't need to because what God is doing in my is just fine, I have no complaints. Since you are the one who is not satisfied with God, then you should be should follow your own advice and get your results from Zeus.


How sad for you to be so afraid of God that you have to try to scare people into believing in him LOL If you convert enough people do you get a set of steak knives?

God is the one who is concerned about your life in iternity. I frankly and unfortunately couldn't care less whether you or anyone convertes or not. As long as my family is saved, that's all I really care about and they are so I am scott free. Jesus has comanded us to go and spread the Gospel but if people reject it, its not us Christians who will suffer believe me.. its those who reject their creator. So don't think by accepting or rejecting the gospel you are doing anyone a favor. It makes no difference to my salvation whether you accept or reject God. ;)

...because no where in the Bible does Jesus promise magic tricks like growing limbs. .Water into wine? Multiplying loaves of bread? More: Miracles of Jesus (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/miracles.htm)

I guess growing limbs is out of his realm.

[quote=sassyT]

sassyT, I, for one of many, Do Believe that God healed your brother of this dreadful dis-ease! God Heals in ways that man knows not of but some un-Believers will argue till they're blue in the face to the contrary. Do not worry, they do not need to be convinced. God Heals and we KNOW that as a Fact! Those infidels are going through their trials right now (though they may not realize it as yet) only to find out, at a later time, that there IS a God afterall, the ONE true God spoken about in the Holy Bible. It is literally their funeral if they don't repent before their time to leave this world. But let them be. They need to learn this lesson the hard way all for themselves due to their free will choice!

Here are some wonderful examples of how God has healed people of AIDS through prayer and their Belief!

Read about someone HEALED of AIDS through Prayer!
I Was Healed of AIDS | Worldview Interactive (http://www.wvi.net.au/node/37)

Hospital gives proof he is AIDS free, including a chart! Prayer Indeed Works!!
Flame Revival News Online: Jesus Heals David of HIV-AIDS Doctor's said, "This is a miracle" - Sex, Drugs & Rock Xposed... (http://www.flameministries.org/news22.htm#dave)

More WONDERFUL examples of how Jesus Heals AIDS and other dreaded diseases!
Testimonies (http://www.christresurrection.org/Testimonies.html)

You are Right Skygem! These people don't know what they are missing. God is alive and well AMEN

So Sassy jesus never grew a limb because no one asked him. Or maybe he could not.
Let's get back to your brother. Did your brother ever use meds? I'll bet he did. In cases with aggressive therapy immune systems are restored( read the link I posted on this page.
If he did use meds then that is why he is better. Does he have no virus in his body you said it in a strange way Does he use meds now? I bet he does to keep it under control
If he never used meds and has no hiv in body and does not use meds now. Well then this would be a great case for investigation. If he did use meds it is obvious that is what helped him (read the link) but you want to give credit to God, I wonder why? LOL since you always write that I will. When God can heal amuptees , down's syndrome, severed spinal cords, consistently without medical interventiuon like your brother had then I will believe not before give me an answer Sassy

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]So Sassy jesus never grew a limb because no one asked him. Or maybe he could not.

The bottom line is Jesus did not ever grow limbs so what makes you think that man's prayers should be able to do it? Like I said before you are fighting a losing battle. You have no case here because Jesus promised we would be able to pray for the sick and they will recover and that happens every day all over the world. He never promised we would grow limbs through prayer.



Let's get back to your brother. Did your brother ever use meds? I'll bet he did. In cases with aggressive therapy immune systems are restored( read the link I posted on this page.
If he did use meds then that is why he is better. Does he have no virus in his body you said it in a strange way Does he use meds now? I bet he does to keep it under control
If he never used meds and has no hiv in body and does not use meds now. Well then this would be a great case for investigation.

You don't get it do you? My brother had been left for dead by the doctors, they told us that there was nothing more they could do for him. They had taken him off the meds months ago. None of his systems were working. He was wearing diapers and he had not put anything in his mouth for 5months he was being fed through a drip. He was just skin and bones and although he was conscious he was too week to even utter a word. Today like I have said a million times, my brother is hiv negative so he does not take med niether does he need to take meds. He has regained all his weight, it is like he had never been sick. God healed him so that he could use his testimony to win souls over to Christ and he is doing just that.



If he did use meds it is obvious that is what helped him (read the link) but you want to give credit to God, I wonder why?

I give credit to God because the doctor could do nothing for him, only God's divine healing could have removed that kind of sickness.



LOL since you always write that I will. When God can heal amuptees , down's syndrome, severed spinal cords, consistently without medical interventiuon like your brother had then I will believe not before give me an answer Sassy

Like I said before. I don't care whether you believe or not, it makes no diffference to my life, I just think you should be reasonable enough to acknowledge that you do not possess absolute knowledge, therefore you are not in a position to claim you know with certainty that God does not exist. If you claim God does not exist, that is just your opinion (based on your beliefs/faith) NOT a fact.

Like I said before sassy I am glad your brother is okay. I knew someone years ago who had contracted AIDS He lived a few houses down from me. In a short while he was bed ridden, and as you would expect depressed as hell, near the end he lost his eyesight. We only found out what he died of because they said it at the funeral. Back then everyone was scared of that word so they kept it quiet.

Just because the doctors gave up on him, well they are not always right are they, so who knows if the meds helped. You can say that I have faith that God does not exist and you would be correct, but with that thinking you can say that meds helped your brother or that Zeus helped him. That is not proof of God. If God were real he would cure those conditons I keep mentioning and not once every blue moon, he is God after all. You say he is not a magician that sounds like an admission that I am correct or at the very least he is limited in his power. I am not sure if you read a few pages about the girl with Hep C another bad virus, she was using meds too and it goes into remmission sometimes and I read some hep C can come out of remmission. We do not know enough about the human body but if it was God he would not be limited by anything

The vatican uses a scientist who is also a priest from Brooklyn no less. Thereason I was asking about the meds was not to bother you but to learn more, if your brother had not used meds ( those are some of the conditions as I remember) and was cured it would be a case they could study and he would be miracle 62, but of course you can understand that they cannot ignore using meds no matter how bad the situation was.

Finally, Let's say for argument God cured your brother, there would have to be a reason
That certain conditions are NEVER cured. It is a vaild question

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]Like I said before sassy I am glad your brother is okay. I knew someone years ago who had contracted AIDS He lived a few houses down from me. In a short while he was bed ridden, and as you would expect depressed as hell, near the end he lost his eyesight. We only found out what he died of because they said it at the funeral. Back then everyone was scared of that word so they kept it quiet.

So... what is your point here?


Just because the doctors gave up on him, well they are not always right are they, so who knows if the meds helped.

I think if it was the meds that Cured him it would be headline News all over the world and it would be announced that the cure for Aids had been found. If the meds had cured him the doctors would have known. They were astonished and could not find any scientific reason for his recovery, doctors said and I quote "miracle".



You can say that I have faith that God does not exist and you would be correct, but with that thinking you can say that meds helped your brother or that Zeus helped him. That is not proof of God.

IIn my opinion it proves proves a lot. It is very strong evidence that God answers prayers. So the evidence is there. Whether you consider the evidence is sufficient to prove prayer works or not, is a purely subjective opinion on your part.



if God were real he would cure those conditons I keep mentioning and not once every blue moon, he is God after all.

There is nothing factual about this statement. Pure speculation.

This what you sound like... "If God existed, God would Give everyone a Mercedes Benze on Christmas morning and we would all find a it parked in the drive ways... ... untill i see a Benze in my drive way on Christmas morning, i am not going to believe God exists"
Do you see what is wrong with your logic? It is based on assumptions and speculation on what God should be to make Him God. Who are you to create the criteria? No where in the bible does God promise he will give us all Mercedes benzes, just like no where in his word does He say He will grow limbs.


You say he is not a magician that sounds like an admission that I am correct or at the very least he is limited in his power.

God is not limited but he can only act on man's faith when it comes to prayer. Man does not possess enough faith to pray a limb into being. But if God I was a magician who performed tricks from heaven, then maybe he would do some hocus pocus and lightening would stike with smoke and baam! a limb would apear.




I am not sure if you read a few pages about the girl with Hep C another bad virus, she was using meds too and it goes into remmission sometimes and I read some hep C can come out of remmission. We do not know enough about the human body but if it was God he would not be limited by anything

Look, I want a Maserati for my birthday.. lol and if God wanted to, he could magically put one in my drive way. But like I have been saying God is not a magician with a wand waiting to make stuff appear and disappear and just because He will not make a Maserati appear in my driveway, does not mean I am going to stop believing he exists.


The vatican uses a scientist who is also a priest from Brooklyn no less. Thereason I was asking about the meds was not to bother you but to learn more, if your brother had not used meds ( those are some of the conditions as I remember) and was cured it would be a case they could study and he would be miracle 62, but of course you can understand that they cannot ignore using meds no matter how bad the situation was.

Look, I am not going to argue with you about my brother's healing, I have my beliefs (I was there I know what happened) and you have your theories that you believe in and that's fine, because niether of us can prove beyond a doubt who or what cured him. So we will leave it at a difference in opinion.


finally, Let's say for argument God cured your brother, there would have to be a reason
That certain conditions are NEVER cured. It is a vaild question

Like I said, there are certain things that God will not do (e.g make sports cars just apear in people's driveways) But that does not make a case for his "non existance".
Your reasoning that "because God did not do X, therefor he does not exist", is a very weak argument and proves nothing. So really, you are waisting your time and mine. If you want to continue this debate with me, you better do better than that and find a more viable argument against God.

heres a question and i would like to get a christian (especially catholic) point of veiw on this.
what is your beleif about demons? do they exist and do they mess with us in a spiritua sense? can one really be posessed??
i have a friend who has a severe seizure disorder, and he is a devout christian. he is mentally sound and i trust him a lot. he claims that when he has a seizure, during the end of it in his hypnotic like state, he sees demons and angels as well. he says one demon in particular has a name he never heard before: "Abatu". he is terrified. he said the angels are almost as terrifying only in a different way. i have been there for some of his seizures and he is getting more scared with each one, scared of what he is seeing and scared of being alone in this. he says he trusts Jesus and asks me to start praying when he feels a seizure coming on, stating that this demon figure he sees hates the word of God and is deterred by it. he has warned me not to pursue this and not to research it, stating that it is very dangerous ground that i dont want to be poking around in. but of course, i am curious.
has anyone studies this subject, and what do you think of this??
I believe I'm a devil I can smell blood and tell the type from the smell I can all so scence rain before it somes and water hurts me if it touches me so yes

I like your explantion on god's limitations so we don't have enough faith for a new limb but for we do for AIDS lol lol that was the dumbest thing I ever read. I guess I should take more faith pills so one day I will be able to cure acne or something. LOL
You misread me entirely and your car example is silly. All I am saying is God can't cure everything but he should able if he is God. If God cured your brother than that should be worldwide news as well but it wasn't, curious What a scientist does that you are incapable of is investiagate exactly happened,and learn not fall to ones knees saying God, God. That's how we get new meds, therapies, etc. That's also why we have so much Medical research because God does not seem to be doing his job very well. If your brother ever loses a body part then we will see where your faith is. You have to learn to look past your nose Sassy.

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]I like your explantion on god's limitations so we don't have enough faith for a new limb but for we do for AIDS lol lol that was the dumbest thing I ever read.

Of course I have more faith for someone to be healed of aids than to see a limb growing before my very eyes. That would be some freaky stuff right there.. lol but God could do it. Nothing is impossible for God. Amen



I guess I should take more faith pills so one day I will be able to cure acne or something. LOL

Faith cometh NOT by pills my friend. The Bible says in Romans 10:17 "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing, by the word of God" So if you want to have faith to heal acne start reading and hearing the word of God.



You misread me entirely and your car example is silly. All I am saying is God can't cure everything but he should able if he is God.

I read what you said and understood it loud and clear.. You are basically saying " God did not do X, therefore he does not exist"... that kind of logical Fallacy unfortunately does not prove anything for your case. In Fact your argument which, being demonstrably flawed in its logic and form, makes the your entire argument invalid.



If God cured your brother than that should be worldwide news as well but it wasn't, curious

Of course the secular world is not going to acknowledge the work of God. Do you really think scientist are going to make news of prayer healing a sick men? Just like you, they have made the "assumption of naturalism", which assumes that all phenomina has a natural explanation. FYI an assuption is not a fact. Doctors had zero evidence to prove a natural explanation for his recovery and yet they chose to believe that some natural process cured him. When asked what natural process healed him... they had no answer. Go figure :rolleyes:


What a scientist does that you are incapable of is investiagate exactly happened,and learn not fall to ones knees saying God, God. That's how we get new meds, therapies, etc. That's also why we have so much Medical research because God does not seem to be doing his job very well.

God heals those who ask for his help. Jesus said "you have not because you ask not" So yes medical research is necessary, especially for those who have no faith in God.



If your brother ever loses a body part then we will see where your faith is. You have to learn to look past your nose Sassy.

Unlike you, my Faith (or the lack there of) in God is not based broken limbs. My Faith in God is based on a much more profound and multidimentional foundation. I think you need to take your own advice and start thinking out side of the box. Be more open minded, explore the unlimitted possibilities this universe has to offer and stop just relying on human scientist who's knowledge is just as limited and narrow as yours. ;)

If faith comes from the Bible as I have read how come you don't have enough faith to grow a limb, hmmm, curious. By the way I used to ask your God for faith when I was a Christian, because I was brainwashed into that but you know something sassy, faith never came, I wonder why
actually I have the answer GOD is made up, period. I think your faith is based in ignorance and fear, you know where those lunatics try to scare you into believing in the everlasting fire of HELLLLLLLLLL you have siad as much to me. Stop being a hillbilly all of your life read other books you might find real enlightenment not the fake stuff you have now.


I read what you said and understood it loud and clear.. You are basically saying " God did not do X, therefore he does not exist" ...

I am not saying God did not do X I am saying he can't do it and it has never happened
Don't you get it, you can search the net for strange healings that happen to non-christians as well but never a new limb, because the body can't regenerate a limb which means God can't help ( your body does all the work) People who have kids with down's sydrome never are reversed. Those poor kids can't have a normal life. Why don't you pray for them. Maybe because in theback of your mind you know I'm right You are correct that would be freaky to see a limb grow but mankind will do it that I guarantee. Here is my prediction As medical technology grows, (because we can never rely on a fake God,) we will need God less and less, in a short time he'll be gone. Just like the tousands of Gods before him.

Just so you know sassy I don't care what you believe, I think it is healthy for some people to have an imaginary friend.
I don't need one though

workerbee

[QUOTE=workerbee]If faith comes from the Bible as I have read how come you don't have enough faith to grow a limb, hmmm, curious. By the way i used to ask your God for faith when i was a Christian, because I was brainwashed into that but you know something sassy, faith never came, I wonder why


Aaaauh that explains it. Now the truth comes out. So you are one of those former Christians who are angry at God because he did not give you what you wanted. Okey... that makes sense.



actually i have the answer GOD is made up, period.

this is your Belief.. not a fact.


I think your faith is based in ignorance and fear, you know where those lunatics try to scare you into believing in the everlasting fire of HELLLLLLLLLL you have siad as much to me. Stop being a hillbilly all of your life read other books you might find real enlightenment not the fake stuff you have now.

Actually workerbee, i am very educated, i am have a degree in Biology and Chemistry and working on my Biology masters... I am also very exposed and well read, i have been to 12 different countries around the world and have studdied and read about many different cultures and religious beliefs. My faith is not Based on fear of going to hell. It is based on the evidence of God's love i have seen in my life and my family's. I know God exists, i talk to him everyday. Even if there was no heaven or hell, i would still worship my creator.



I am not saying God did not do X i am saying he can't do it and it has never happened

same fallacy of logic... "God can't do X therefore he does not exist"


Don't you get it, you can search the net for strange healings that happen to non-christians as well but never a new limb, because the body can't regenerate a limb which means God can't help ( your body does all the work) People who have kids with down's sydrome never are reversed. Those poor kids can't have a normal life. Why don't you pray for them.

LIke i said this is a logical fallacy, just because God did not or cannot (in your opinion) do X, does not mean he does not exist.


Maybe because in theback of your mind you know I'm right You are correct that would be freaky to see a limb grow but mankind will do it that i guarantee. Here is my prediction As medical technology grows, (because we can never rely on a fake God,) we will need God less and less, in a short time he'll be gone. Just like the tousands of Gods before him.

Keep the hope alive ;)


Just so you know sassy i don't care what you believe, i think it is healthy for some people to have an imaginary friend.
I don't need one though

Imaginary friend.. LOL :rolleyes:

Yes they are real. I cast out demons every Tuesday. And catholics don't anything about demons cause the holy water is just water that priest prey at. But demons are real.

I am a former Christian because I see God never works, I have never seen it. I am not angry just searching for the truth. I guess you have a degree in psychology as well Why would you have a degree in biology what is the point you can do so much more as a faith healer. I can see it now a bunch of frightened, ignorant people coming to see you for a healing.

SASSY: Praise the lorrrrrrrrrd!

THE CROWD: Praise Jesus, he is all knowing and loving

SASSY: I will cure this leper

Then leper comes forward. Sassy gets close does a few weird movements with her arms

LEPER: Prasie the lord

SASSY : you are heaaaaaaaled in the name of the lord, how do you feel

LEPER: I feel heaaaaaaaaled, praise jesus

Then walkng back to his seat the Leper's hand falls off. LOL

That'e the way I see it

Andy, your nuts period, but I am sure Sassy will you, she'll believe anything



workerbee

I am a former Christian because i see God never works, I have never seen it. i am not angry just searching for the truth. I guess you have a degree in psychology as well Why would you have a degree in biology what is the point you can do so much more as a faith healer. I can see it now a bunch of frightened, ignorant people coming to see you for a healing.

SASSY: Praise the lorrrrrrrrrd!

THE CROWD: Praise Jesus, he is all knowing and loving

SASSY: I will cure this leper

Then leper comes foward. sassy gets close does a few weird movements with her arms

LEPER: Prasie the lord

SASSY : you are heaaaaaaaled in the name of the lord, how do you feel

LEPER: I feel heaaaaaaaaled, praise jesus

then walkng back to his seat the Leper's hand falls off. LOL

that'e the way I see it

Andy, your nuts period, but i am sure Sassy will you, she'll believe anything



workerbee


Lol you just sound like a bitter ex Christian. Don't worry.. the feeling of anger and resentment will pass eventually and hopefuly you will return to God.

That last part was a joke Sassy, you christians have no sense of humor. As far as returning to God, well, why don't you pray for me sassy, It won't work other people have tried. You can go to Romans and ask for even more faith to do it. You are gullible, that's your main problem
Just so you know I enjoy my life much more now than when I was a Christian


P.S. based on your posts you sound angry and I might add hateful, so much for Christianity
Enriching your life.

workerbee

Workerbee,

Hee hee enjoyed your post. Problem is... you are wrong on so many levels. Number 1.. I have a GREAT sense of humor. You included me in your answer when you used the words "YOU CHRISTIANS". YOU may not like my sense of humor but none the less... I gotS one and yes, I am one of those Christians you speak of so "fondly"... lol

Number 2... read your post back... calling someone guilliable, point blank saying they have NO sense of humor is not what one might call "loving". I think it is kind of hateful but hey that is just me. Oh and reading all your post I can see how "enriched" your life is... tee hee. ( more of my "sense of humor") ;)

Number 3- no such thing as a EX Christian... your choices are... A. never saved and ticked off at the Lord... or B. saved and ticked off at the Lord. Bummer either way.

Thanks for your advice, people like you closed minded Christians cause wars because you are inflexable with you thinking. No such thing as an exChristian, there is an example of close-mindedness and yes you are gullible, if you believe in angels or demons. Those are for people whose minds are in the dark ages. Just so you know I read this which you have to ignore 41% of people that go to high school believe the bible as the word of god and only 2 % of people that graduate college believe in the bible as the word of god. That should tell you ignorance and religion go hand in hand

workerbee

Workee,

I didn't give you any advise... just the facts... hee hee.

Workee,

i didn't give you any advise...just the facts...hee hee.I think that's part of the problem: you think you're right and every one else with a different opinion is wrong.

Need,

Well dog on it... someones got to be wrong and well it just ain't me! :) My facts aren't opinions either... and I wasn't aware there was a "problem".

[
QUOTE=workerbee]That last part was a joke Sassy, you christians have no sense of humor. As far as returning to God, well, why don't you pray for me sassy, It won't work other people have tried. You can go to Romans and ask for even more faith to do it. You are gullible, that's your main problem
Just so you know I enjoy my life much more now than when I was a Christian

Good for you :)

Thanks for your advice, people like you closed minded Christians cause wars because you are inflexable with you thinking. No such thing as an exChristian, there is an example of close-mindedness and yes you are gullible, if you believe in angels or demons. Those are for people whose minds are in the dark ages. Just so you know i read this which you have to ignore 41% of people that go to high school believe the bible as the word of god and only 2 % of people that graduate college believe in the bible as the word of god. that should tell you ignorance and religion go hand in hand

workerbee

I find this really ironic but I think workerbee YOU are the one who has displayed a dark ages, closed minded kind of intolerence, Hate speech and name calling of other people and their beliefs.. After all, you are the one who is on a religious forum harassing people about their beliefs and trying to convince us to believe in your beliefs. You claim you are not religious and yet you spend at least half of your life on a religious forum harassing believers and making bigoted intollerent remarks about people.
If you don't Believe in God, good for you.. but don't come here to undermine other's beliefs in a effort to propagate and promote your own. Keep your beliefs to yourself and we will keep to ours, I don't think any Christians or other believers here are interested in converting to your athiestic faith so please.. we heard what you believe, thank you very much for sharing, but we would like to continue with our Christian discussions in peace with out having someone trying to shove their athiestic beliefs down our throats.
Three words of advice please "get a life"

If I called any names you would know it. I wasn't trying to harass anyone just trying to let some of you know there aren't any demons. I am trying to let people know it is okay to question God, pretty much worthless if I was on a Atheist forum, they already agree. I came here to help even though you refuse to believe it. If you believe in God good for you. As far as get a life, you should take that advice. You are always replying
P S I am here to stay so I can help and if you don't like what I write or don't believe in what I write , don't reply. Some Christains might enjoy a different point of view

workerbee

If I called any names you would know it. I wasn't trying to harass anyone just trying to let some of you know there aren't any demons.

Those are YOUR BELIEFS, NOT facts. And like said thanks for sharing your beliefs with us but don't come on a christian forum and harrass us, calling us names and I QUOTE "close minded" "gullible" "minds from the dark ages" "ignorant" "Uneducated"


I am trying to let people know it is okay to question God, pretty much worthless if I was on a Atheist forum, they already agree. I came here to help even though you refuse to believe it.

You are not here to genuinely share your beliefs and have a civil discussion. You are just here to say "im right and You are wrong" "I am intelligent and you are stupid" that is what you are here for. So don't pretend like you are here in good faith. We already have you figured out. If you read the question of this forum the person specifically said they wanted to hear a Christian point of view. If she wanted an athiest's opinion she would have posted the question on the atheist forum. You are not helping anyone here, if you want to help anyone help yourself and find a better way to spend your free time than harassing believers on religious forums and trying to shove your beliefs down people's throats.



[QUOTE]If you believe in God good for you. As far as get a life, you should take that advice. You are always replying
At least I am not a so called athiests who spends half his life on religious forums :rolleyes:



P S I am here to stay so I can help and if you don't like what I write or don't believe in what I write , don't reply. Some Christains might enjoy a different point of view
Workerbee

I don't think any christians here are enjoying your bigoted hate speech. Its time you take your bigotry else where because it is not going to be tolerated here much longer. Read the Terms of this site. Such hateful language is not tolerated on this site. If you make anymore demeaning hateful remarks, I am going to report you to the site's administrator.

Ahhhh now Sassy, don't get your panties in a wad! Workee is here to enlighten us. He or she is living an enriched life without GOD and is here to share "wisdom" and "truth" without opening up the Bible... (course human beings haven't had an original thought EVER but hey open up your MIND but just make sure nothing Leaks out) hee hee.

Seriously Sas, don't let it get to you. It sooo isn't worth it. :)

Ahhhh now Sassy, don't get your panties in a wad! Workee is here to enlighten us. He or she is living an enriched life without GOD and is here to share "wisdom" and "truth" without opening up the Bible....(course human beings haven't had an original thought EVER but hey open up your MIND but just make sure nothing Leaks out) hee hee.

Seriously Sas, don't let it get to you. it sooo isn't worth it. :)

Hi Classy,

I appreciate people's opinions and having civil debates, but when someone starts making rude, uncivil and hateful comments about people, I find that pittyful and feel the need to remind workerbee of the rules of this site. Bigotry is not tolerated.

I believe you called me ignorant as well and now stupid but you are inocent right, things like gullible are not names the are descriptions, a name is calling someone stupid which you did. You don't know what I am thinking, I am not geniune huh, I can come off as a hard but I am geniune I what I said. Sassy what an ego you have to think you know me I think you might be guilty of the sin of vanity Tsk tsk. You replied again. Shouldn't you be studying? (anotherjoke) You keep saying my beiliefs are just beliefs not fact and you are correct just like your beliefs are not fact. You don't speak for all Christians Because I am a big person I will say this I AM SORRY IF I HURT YOUR FEELINGS THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION we cool again?


workerbee

Workee,

stupid is an adjective too... not a name. You put Sassy down, tell her she has an ego, judge her with the sin of vanity and THEN apologize.. yep you ARE the bigger person!! Hee hee. ( another one of my jokes) I'm curious what are your intentions?

No intentions, does the word paranoid mean anything to you? You know what I'd better admit it I want to TAKE OVER THE WORLD When saying ignorant is just describing a person much more than saying stupid both are adjectives but one is used more in calling names. Being open-minded like you classy I am sure you won't agree. Since you asked made a sarcastic remark about me educating Christians look at this link if you have time read it carefully, there are a few films and books on this subject
astrotheology and the truth about the jesus christ as found in the new testament (http://paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/)

workerbee

I believe you called me ignorant as well and now stupid but you are inocent right, things like gullible are not names the are descriptions, a name is calling someone stupid which you did. You don't know what I am thinking, I am not geniune huh, I can come off as a hard but I am geniune I what I said. Sassy what an ego you have to think you know me I think you might be guilty of the sin of vanity Tsk tsk. You replied again. Shouldn't you be studying? (anotherjoke) You keep saying my beiliefs are just beliefs not fact and you are correct just like your beliefs are not fact. You don't speak for all Christians Because I am a big person I will say this I AM SORRY IF I HURT YOUR FEELINGS THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION we cool again?


workerbee

I did not call you stupid, if you re-read my post you will see that I was trying to point out how your attitude is coming across so I was saying that you are the one who thinks we are stupid and you are intelligent.


SASSY You are just here to say "im right and You are wrong" "I am intelligent and you are stupid" that is what you are here for.

I reread it and you did not call me stupid. At least read that link it will help you to understand one reason I think the way I do. That webpage I have not seen before but what it says is well known and is just a fraction of the sun Gods they talk about

workerbee

Hello SassyT,

Just thought you might like to visit the following websites that are germane to some of the continuing conversations here. It shows that many medical doctors also actively believe in spiritual healing through Jesus which should not come as a great surprise to many.

Christian Doctors Prescribe 'Spiritual Healing' for Sickness (http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11548066/)

WCDN (http://www.wcdn.org/)

Skygem you are correct that this thread took a 180 degree turn. Now let me answer you question. First off I am not making this up. Read below
However, apart from the matter of the number of people is an even more significant issue. The problem is that the biblical account never refers to the Red Sea by name. In fact, nowhere in the entire Old Testament Hebrew text is the body of water associated with the exodus ever called the "Red Sea." Instead in the Hebrew text the reference is to the yam suph. The word yam in Hebrew is the ordinary word for "sea," although in Hebrew it is used for any large body of water whether fresh or salt.
workerbee

You are mistaken and easily proven with the scripture JKV Exodus 14:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they turn and encamp before Pihahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, over against Baalzephon: before it shall ye encamp by the sea.


a fortified city on the Egyptian border. . Migdol = Hebrew מגדול ( H4024 Strong Concordance ) Transliteration.. = Migdowl

-------------------------------------------------------

a) Mediterranean Sea b) Red Sea c) Dead Sea d) Sea of Galilee e) sea (general) f) mighty river (Nile) g) the sea (the great basin in the temple court) h) seaward, west, westward.. . sea: Hebrew ים ( H3220 Strong Concordance ) Transliteration = yam

--------------------------------------------------------------

a place in Egypt near the Red Sea where Pharaoh and his army were destroyed during the Exodus
Baalzephon = Hebrew בעל צפון ( H1189 Strong Concordance ) Transliteration = Ba`al Tsĕphown


Not the topic workerbee, and I can not accept false teaching!

Note Fact: The KJV of the Bible is protected by the number system in translation referance with the Strong Concordance. This locks all words and letters in place. The Text itself has been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This has been the work of the Sopherim. Their word, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon.. Noted in Nehemiah 8:8 cp Ezra 7: 6-11 ( Sopherim are the authorised revisers of the Sacred Text. The Massorah is known as the fence to the Scriptures.

Topic demons: yes there are, and power over all has been given in the Name of Jesus to those that believe. I would suggest, when known that the severe seizure is coming on, that the person pray asking that body mind and soul be in the hands of the Lord.. Ask that He will send His holy angels to protect you from evil demons. IN JESUS NAME.. When you believe in Christ and His worthyness, your prayer is answered..

Here we go again, prayer does not work. Oh sure there are some doctors that might believe this but as I said many times before your god has many limitations if he is real. Ask those doctors that might believe in prayer if God can reverse down's sydrome, amputees, etc you might be surprised at their reply they might even smile politely. They know that is impossible Everyone knows what I am saying but are afraid to admit it to themselves, Remember the church has investigated miracles for a long, long time and only has come up with 61 out of billions of prayers, not very imptressive for god. A few fluke occurrences does not prove prayer that's why the church has it set up that way, otherwise many cures will be claimed when in fact none has happened. I did not get a chance to look at your link skygem, but I will say if a person gets better after meds and doctors working on them so what? Doesn't prove anything

Please read the link I gave earlier your Jesus not only IMO was a mortal but but may never have existed. Sounds shocking to you but the facts point in that direction. Demons and angels, are folklore. People fall for anything, right now Ghosts are big right now

workerbee

Here we go again, prayer does not work. Oh sure there are some doctors that might believe this but as I said many times before your god has many limitations if he is real. ask those doctors that might believe in prayer if God can reverse down's sydrome, amputees, etc you might be surprised at their reply they might even smile politely. They know that is impossible Everyone knows what i am saying but are afraid to admit it to themselves,. Remember the church has investigated miracles for a long, long time and only has come up with 61 out of billions of prayers, not very imptressive for god. A few fluke occurances does not prove pray that's why the church has it set up that way, otherwise many cures will be claimed when in fact none has happened.
workerbee

You are not correct in all that you are thinking about prayer, or the power of our Lord. We did not understand all God's intentions in such matters, but this is not heaven, and we live on this earth baring a cross until that day, The Lord's Day . But I speak "Truth" in knowing God has answered my prayers. One experience that relates to this subject is a prayer I asked in protection for my son's severe seizure with diabetes. From that moment on my son has not experienced a seizure in 21 years.. Oh he still has diabetes... yet God has brought forth great forture in medicines and care to help him in the attempt of controlling this disease. My son was 8 years old when the first seizure fell upon him. I believe with a hold heart of love, God looks after His children. This might not be the miracle you wanted, but none the less it is God's given blessing upon my son.
~Rejoice and Praise The Lord and "God's Will be Done"

Please read the link i gave earlier your Jesus not only IMO was a mortal but but may never have existed. sounds shocking to you but the facts point in that direction. Demons and angels, are folklore. people fall for anything, right now Ghosts are big right now
workerbee

And you will never see until God grants you that blessing.. You will not hear until you seek by knocking on that door that Jesus stands at waiting for all who will hear His Word. You are accountable for your own Free Will. I depart and shake the sand from my shoes as the Will of God be Done.

^
Wow, is there a translation for that? Why do you have sand in your shoes? Has anyone actually heard a knocking at a door and it was Jesus?

^
Wow, is there a translation for that? Why do you have sand in your shoes? has anyone actually heard a knocking at a door and it was Jesus?

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Revelation 3:21-22 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

I am the door of the sheep.I got that part.

You are not correct in all that you are thinking about prayer, or the power of our Lord. We did not understand all God's intentions in such matters, but this is not heaven, and we live on this earth baring a cross until that day, The Lord's Day . But I speak "Truth" in knowing God has answered my prayers. One experience that relates to this subject is a prayer I asked in protection for my son's severe seizure with diabetes. From that moment on my son has not experienced a seizure in 21 years.. Oh he still has diabetes...yet God has brought forth great forture in medicines and care to help him in the attempt of controlling this disease. My son was 8 years old when the first seizure fell upon him. I believe with a hold heart of love, God looks after His children. This might not be the miracle you wanted, but none the less it is God's given blessing upon my son.
~Rejoice and Praise The Lord and "God's Will be Done"


See how you ignored what I said. How do you know God hepled your son? The answereyou don't but NEED to believe, sorry but your wrong the meds helped. If you want to give God the credit for creating those meds there is nothing left for us to talk about. Your mind is too closed. If god worked we would not need that all that medical research to create the meds that helped your son.
PS glad your son is feeling better.

See how you ignored what i said. How do you know God hepled your son? .

One experience that relates to this subject is a prayer I asked in protection for my son's severe seizure with diabetes. From that moment on, my son has not experienced a seizure in 21 years..


the answereyou don't but NEED to believe, sorry but your wrong the meds helped. .

Medication of insulin with diabetes can cause the seizure.. Not the right amount of food intake, not the right about of exercise, having a common cold using the natural immune system can cause seizure.. My son never had another seizure...

I
f you want to give God the credit for creating those meds there is nothing left for us to talk about. Your mind is too closed. .

God created us, and grants us blessing. Who created the brain that allows each of us to be as we are? Who leads us to find the help we need when we ask? God! If that is closed minded, then God has blessed me in my knowledge of His Love.


if god worked we would not need that all that medical research to create the meds that helped your son. .

Not true, we are not in heaven.. We have a cross to bare until we are in heaven.


PS glad your son is feeling better.

Thank you.. My son is 28 years old now, and continues to help his body by further studying marshal art. This training teaches the control of phyical endurane and survival. Without a doubt an experience and blessing in life that I trust God has led him to achieve.

Here is the problem, you truly believe that God helped you and you are unbending in that
Muslims feel they are correct, jews feel they are correct and everyone else is wrong. That leads to trouble, the reason we wars

When you say: God created us, and grants us blessing. Who created the brain that allows each of us to be as we are? Who leads us to find the help we need when we ask? God! If that is closed minded, then God has blessed me in my knowledge of His Love.

How can I argue with that? For me there is no God. If you refuse to even ask the question whether he exists then we have no common ground

workerbee

One experience that relates to this subject is a prayer I asked in protection for my son's severe seizure with diabetes. From that moment on, my son has not experienced a seizure in 21 years..



Medication of insulin with diabetes can cause the seizure.. Not the right amount of food intake, not the right about of exercise, having a common cold using the natural immune system can cause seizure.. My son never had another seizure ...

i

God created us, and grants us blessing. Who created the brain that allows each of us to be as we are? Who leads us to find the help we need when we ask? God! If that is closed minded, then God has blessed me in my knowledge of His Love.



Not true, we are not in heaven.. We have a cross to bare until we are in heaven.



Thank you.. My son is 28 years old now, and continues to help his body by further studying marshal art. This training teaches the control of phyical endurane and survival. Without a doubt an experience and blessing in life that I trust God has led him to achieve.

Dear Sndbay, It is indeed miraculous about your son being healed as we, in and of ourselves, have no power to heal but that which comes from God as is His will. May God bless both you and your son always!

You may be very interested to know that since there have been appearances of the Virgin Mary in different parts of the world for some years now, and some of the pictures taken are even Recognized by the Catholic Church (that is not ever quick to accept such things) and Accepted as authentic, there have also been appearances by Jesus! These are not Hollywood-made full-length motion pictures with expensive special effects. This is documentary information caught by ordinary people's camcorders when the Miraculous Event occurred. There were many witnesses when this miracle occurred. Let me tell you it is so WONDERFUL to see Jesus appear, hovering above a village in the sky as this film will show! In order to see it you will need Quicktime to be enabled as well as Javascript. That's it and let me say once again, this is a Most Blessed sight to behold and a true gift and blessing by God's Son for all of us and always will be! You will never be the same again after you view it!

YouTube - Jesus's Appearance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdCI_WEOzDA&NR=1)

The Great Flying Spagetti Monster has appeared to us as well:
vL7FcvEydqg

You may be very interested to know that since there have been appearances of the Virgin Mary in different parts of the world for some years now, and some of the pictures taken are even Recognized by the Catholic Church (that is not ever quick to accept such things) and Accepted as authentic, there have also been appearances by Jesus! These are not Hollywood-made full-length motion pictures with expensive special effects. This is documentary information caught by ordinary people's camcorders when the Miraculous Event occurred. There were many witnesses when this miracle occurred. Let me tell you it is so WONDERFUL to see Jesus appear, hovering above a village in the sky as this film will show!! In order to see it you will need Quicktime to be enabled as well as Javascript. That's it and let me say once again, this is a Most Blessed sight to behold and a true gift and blessing by God's Son for all of us and always will be!! You will never be the same again after you view it!
YouTube - Jesus's Appearance[/URL]

No this would not lead me in my faith, because there is an important teaching in scripture that tell us not to believe when such things are told or spoken of.. The warning is clear, because God does not want His children led away by the antichrist.. It is best to remember the Word of God and How the Word tells us of the signs in Christ coming. Satan will use what he wants to have people follow.. Satan used twisted scripture in trying to deceived Christ. NOTE: The Parable of the Fig Tree... we are told to know!

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The same is written in Mark 13:21-17

Skygem, you embarrass yourself. That was jesus huh didn't look like much. I am starting to think that you would buy the Brooklyn bridge. Jesus was just a man if he existed at all.
There are many solar gods that lived Jesus' life thousands of years before jesus did,he did not do those miracles we know this because many of those exact miracles were done by other solar gods. Those STORIES were copid into the jesus myth. By the way I can get video of aliens, loch ness monster, and bigfoot. Don't be such an easy mark

Just so you know the link I gave shows an image of Dionsyus who was crucified 500 years before jesus so how do you know its not an image of him?

That YouTube video reminds of a story years ago ( I wish I could find it on the net) someone spotted a stain on a underpass that he thought looked like the virgin mary ( though no ones knows what she looks like) in time more people came and discussed what they saw then some even left flowers. They found out it was the pee stain of a homeless man who was living there LOL

Hey NeedKarma That FSM is more real than Jesus, and probably doesbetter miracles

Workebee

Skygem, you embarrass yourself. that was jesus huh didn't look like much. i am starting to think that you would buy the Brooklyn bridge. Jesus was just a man if he existed at all.
There are many solar gods that lived Jesus' life thousands of years before jesus did,he did not do those miracles we know this because many of those exact miracles were done by other solar gods. those STORIES were copid into the jesus myth. By the way i can get video of aliens, loch ness monster, and bigfoot. Don't be such an easy mark

Just so you know the link i gave shows an image of Dionsyus who was crucified 500 years before jesus so how do you know its not an image of him?

that youtube video reminds of a story years ago ( i wish i could find it on the net) someone spotted a stain on a underpass that he thought looked like the virgin mary ( though no ones knows what she looks like) in time more people came and discussed what they saw then some even left flowers. they found out it was the pee stain of a homeless man who was living there LOL

hey NeedKarma That FSM is more real than Jesus, and probably doesbetter miracles

workebee

You know, I truly feel very sorry for both of you as each time you two speak, you dig a deeper hole for your souls to sink into. And you do it by your own words and actions. I know it is hard to expect any sense of decency from either of you when speaking about Jesus but again, you'll find out at your time of departure from this Earth and then what will you say to justify your actions here and what you have said about Him? Remember, you can't lie your way through that one. God knows all and will know you as well and all you have said. Of course, whether you like it or approve of it or not you will have to confront Him for your judgment. While no one can change that but you, while you still have time, if you have any doubts about the miraculous appearances, you can contact the cities where these miracles occurred or even the doubting Vatican, hard to accept things, just like you. Though they have on many occasions as plenty of witnesses have come forth to support the sightings.

Jesus Words of Truth

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus Words of Truth

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

You are exactly right, sndbay. May the words of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior ring Loud and Clear for everyone to hear! Those who do not believe now will have a great struggle trying to explain their actions and non-belief at their judgment of which no one can escape from. That is why I pity the souls who blaspheme and use such excoriating comments about that which they do not understand and do not try to understand. The devil has them firmly in their grip and hopes to win their soul over at the time of their Earthly departure. We can only continue to pray for their souls, that's all we can do as we cannot make them Believe due to their free will. They will, however, find out the error of their ways soon enough.

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me (Jesus) before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would Love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." -- JOHN 15:18-19 (KJV)

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God [is] with thee whithersoever thou goest.

The law and The Word will never leave me or depart from me for I remain sown with the Spirit. For I can not be credited in being right, for what was spoken is Christ and His Truth. The Word speaks for itself. I pray always for the Truth and God's Will to be done.

Skygem: May you stay planted in the richness of His worthness, and drink of the His Word.
~In Christ... Peace Be With You

Ok not to be rude but what do all these bible verses have to do with demons? Rachie asked about demons, not bible verses.

Ok not to be rude but what do all these bible verses have to do with demons? Rachie asked about demons, not bible verses.

You are not being rude and you are right this was not the subject. As I made the same statement in #120...

Topic demons: yes there are, and power over all has been given in the Name of Jesus to those that believe. I would suggest, when known that the severe seizure is coming on, that the person pray asking that body mind and soul be in the hands of the Lord.. Ask that God would send His holy angels to protect you from evil demons. IN JESUS NAME.. When you believe in Christ and His worthyness, your prayer is answered..

Getting back on topic demons are B S they are copied form older versions of these stories

workerbee

How soon you forget what you said in the not-too-distant past about demons and have said all along that they don't exist. Here, let me show you what you wrote:

May 21, 2008, 05:31 AM #65 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christianity/demons-97476-7.html#post1051013) workerbee (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/workerbee.html) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1051013", true);
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"You may be correct that the adversary(Satan or common sense ) has gotten a tight grip on me, but if you are honest and i from your posts i think you are then aleast admit that i have a point, by the way i am not tempting Christ it would be illogical."

So, wb, you say I am correct that the adversary (satan) has a tight grip on you, yet just above that and all along you have been denying the existence of demons with your expletive. So, if you don't believe in demons and you say demons are "B S", why would you believe they have gotten a tight grip on you? Given this, I just have to doubt your veracity from now on on anything you say. End of story.

Ok not to be rude but what do all these bible verses have to do with demons? Rachie asked about demons, not bible verses.

Given the fact that this is a forum dealing with CHRISTIANITY, the Bible Verses are most germane to the conversation as they point out, Biblically, that demons do indeed exist. So, not only do we Christians believe there are demons but the Holy Bible backs us up on that point and we need to show the verses that support what we are saying, otherwise why be discussing matters in a Christianity forum if we could not point to Christ's words and other Scriptures in the Holy Bible.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God [is] with thee whithersoever thou goest.

The law and The Word will never leave me or depart from me for I remain sown with the Spirit. For I can not be credited in being right, for what was spoken is Christ and His Truth. The Word speaks for itself. I pray always for the Truth and God's Will to be done.

Skygem: May you stay planted in the richness of His worthness, and drink of the His Word.
~In Christ ... Peace Be With You

Thank you so much, sndbay, for your kind words. As a Born Again Christian, I am firmly seated in my commitment to Jesus Christ and His Divine Word! I am very happy and blessed to be a part of His family!

† In Christ... Peace Be With You Also

For too many people ofending the belief of others,