Here's the thing... im a sergeant in the army, and I've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and I ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? The reason I ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether people feel that way. Two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war... I am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:

People are against the war not the soldiers. The terrorist referred to by Rosie is America not the soldier. I hope that clears things up for you.

Your mind is made up and you'll most likely attack anyone with a dissenting view so I'm out of this.

My mind isn't made up that's why there is a question... I want to know others views on the subject, not here that America (a country) is a terrorist... that makes no sense. Have a thought and explain it... you gave me two sentences. Define how you feel about this question. Do you support the soldier? Do you not? Do you agree with rosie? Do you not? To what degree? I thought a sight like this would provide me with answers from people with a little more insight, not a flaccid line about a loose fact... I now would like answers only from people who are deep thinkers, even smart a**es, but don't belittle my inquiry with a 3rd graders answer. Have some insight and even cite something.

Wigg - Let me assure you, with 100% certainty - That we, America, Americans, love, support and our so very proud of our soldiers.

All of you are our hearts. We want you home and we want you home safe.

Do not, I repeat do not, and please pass these on to your buddies who were spit on, DO NOT, let the ugly fool who did that, paint a view for you and all of our fine soldiers, as to how we at home feel.

Rosie I think loves our troops. I am not even sure how she worded her first comment which triggered all of this controversery and frankly I don't even care. She does not speak for all of America, but I do feel she loves each and everyone of you. I even think she puts on shows for all of you. I think her angst is with our President. Not sure.

But to answer your question... YES, we love you... Yes we are proud of you... more than any of you will ever know. There are many threads on here showing love and support for our troops.

God bless, stay safe and you just keep in mind, we here at home, pray for you and your families and thank you and your families for the continual sacrifice that you are making every minute of the day.

God bless you and America now and always.

Rosie does not speak for me, she does not speak for many, but she is loud and a mouthpiece who is not afraid to say anything that pops into her head. Which is her right. My right is that I do not have to agree with her.

I think our (America's) history with how the armed forces were treated during the Vietnam War taught us (citizens) a valuable lesson in knowing the difference between supporting our troops while being in disagreement with the war. I would hope that people learned and that our armed forces are not treated with the shameful disrespect as the returning soldiers during the Vietnam War were treated. Sadly, there are people out there that still do not have the capacity to discern the soldier from the war.

That being said, I do feel the majority of Americans support our troops. We know theirs is a tremendous responsibility, facing circumstances on a daily basis that we see, while we sit safely at home. Easy to be an armchair general.

So please tell your buddies that they are held in daily prayer for their safe return home, for their families, and for the duties they are commanded to perform. God bless you and all in your unit.

Personally, I am against the war. If people want to join the war, then I'm against them as well. Sure, if I see that a 18 year old girl or boy was killed I stop and think how pointless that young death was. How sad it is. But I also think that it's there own fault in a way. For putting thereselves into that situation. In war there is no way to know if you will come out alive. I don't mourn for anyone, I think that its sad though. If I was asked to serve I'd say no. Why? Because its not my problem. I'm not going to kill inocent people. I don't believe in war. War is pitiful. Just because some nut job thinks we are a strong nation (which in reality were not) and thinks going to war and getting into Israles business is OK doesn't mean it is. If people wouldn't stand up to the governemt who will? There is something wrong with this country. Why join a war that you know is wrong? Why fight for nothing. Whatever. That kid in the war doesn't have the chance to get married and change the world. If they want to send people over send older people who had more of a life. When it comes down to it, I think this whole war is completely retarded. In my opinion, if Bush continues to do this he could end up in trouble with crazy's. We know how scary those people can be. I don't like Bush because I think his whole ''I <3 Jesus'' thing is completely fake. But I don't think he's the man for presisdent. I blame him for putting thoughts of war into young teens. I disagree with the war, soldiers fighting in this pointless, godless, nameless, and never-ending war. I wish the best for any of you, but I don't have to say I ''told you so''. I like Rosie she's got some things right. At the same time not everything she says is what I think. She's has the right to say what she thinks though it's a free country and freedoom of speech. I'm American, what happened to our foundations? God fearing, honorable and loving people and nation? It died with Lincoln.

If you want to hear a song that will make you cry your eyes out and shake your head with pain listen to this song
YouTube - P!nk - Dear Mr. President Offical Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugH5MUNNL0c&mode=related&search=)
Good luck to any of you soldiers, I don't know you but I know your honestly thinking your changing the world. Realize maybe your not maybe your all just pawns in a childish game.

Ohh and on this matter I speak my veiws, my fiance's, my family's and anyone else who agree's. So don't think I'm speaking for all America. Thank you.

WWiraq:

I only speak for myself,

Rosie O'donnel has the right to express herself. That being said I think she is an ignorant, hateful idiot, and so is anyone who would spit on another person just because they were in uniform. These people do not have the balls to go beyond themselved and put it all on the line [ life limb family ] to serve our country.

I want the US to militarily and politically kick some a.. get the job done and come home.
That or lets just stop wasting time being targets and bring everyone back home NOW.
The management of this war has been horrendus.

I think you can be against the war and support our troops. No, not one of those magnets you put on your car. I mean support their families, visit or volunteer at a veterans hospital, pray for them.

God Bless


Grace and Peace

Rayne my sweet - You say you don't support it - but surely you support our brave men and women, the very ones that continue to keep your right to speak alive and well :). Surely you do.

And I will continue to shout it to the roof tops, my love, loyatly and pride of our brave men and woman.

May God continue to watch over them.

No I don't. I'm offended that you try to make me conform to your way of thinking. I think if a person wants to join a war with no point then let them. But they probably aren't coming home. I don't support the war, so I also don't support the people in the war. If anything I may feel sorry for them. If they'd not go, then maybe the war would end. But people keep being suckered into going. If they die, they die doing nothing but fighting in a pointless war. Die doing something better. Like fighting this stupid government. Change the world in our own country. USA needs people here, to make changes, not continents away. And I can go as far as to say that its those people going to war that keep this war alive.

Raynefreak:

#1 Their death is not pointless.
#2 I don't think you understand the courage it takes to serve and possibly die for your country.
#3 President Bush was elected twice, he may not be the best, but the voters thought he was better than Gore or Kerry.
#4 I think young teens can think for themselves

Thank You for your opinion


Grace and Peace

Rayne - I am so very sorry - no way was I trying to get you to conform, as if I could girl, now smile!

You have to keep in mind, our very brave men and women, as well as their families, yes, some are in Iraq, but they are all over the world and are stationed here as well. Keeping us safe. They are torn from their families that make endless sacrifices, not those just in Iraq, but in the entire armed forces.

And I will not even get into the fact that these fine soldiers are answering a call placed on them a duty placed on them.

I am saddened that you think and feel the way you do, but no, I would never try and force anyone to see things my way.

Relax Rayne - okay?

Try listening to the song I added. Let me know what you think about that. I do understand the courage in the people who go to war. But that doesn't make it right. It's those who make this all continue. If you have no fighters the war would end. Listen to reason. Bush was elected, but those who voted for him should think about that mistake in my opinion. I never said teens couldn't think, but most of them just want to prove themselves or just jump into it. I doubt they all understand that this war is completely pointless and endless. Fight in your own country. We need help here, in our front. I'm 21, I'm an adult and I pity no one. I'm not going to support anyone helping this governemnt ruin lives. I am opinionated, I am a voice that many may see as threatening. Merely because I strike a chord. Ever watch V for Vendetta? That's what this country the USA will be like someday. Guess who will be V? Me, I hope or someone who doesn't listen to the counrty's BS. I'd love to knock down and shape up this country. But I'm small and it takes many to make a change. Too bad no one cares or is man enough. In my opinon your all conformists. Make your land a product of you, don't be a product of it.

Hello wig:

I don't know what's so hard. I love the troops. I hate their mission. Some people can't tell the difference. I can.

excon

People can rant all they want about our troops but why aren't they directing their anger to the ones who voted for the Iraq War? Democrats and Republicans alike voted FOR this war. Petition your congressmen and your senators. Better yet - petition for those congressmen and senators to take the places of our troops. GWB can lead them all in the battle.

You would soon see results. To verbally assault our armed forces personnel does not get anyone anywhere. But it is your right. A right our troops defend.

#1 Their death is not pointless.Correct, Haliburton stock has risen nicely.

Well I'd never spit on someone. That's rude. However, I don't agree with the war and aid-ing it. Whenever something bad happens I say ''told you so''. But I feel sorry for the lives that must end in this completely insane war. I will say openly that I dislike Bush. He's a retard, have you seen his speech's? Man makes me laugh my ars off. I think that they should put him in the front lines. He wants to push this war on further. I said in my first post here my ideas on Bush. Anyway, keep in mind Bush doesn't make all the choices. There are other people in charge. He only signs forms, if they disagree they vito or w/e. Bush isn't the only one to blame. But thank god they got all those people out of office. At least now its more diverse. If my memory serves me right they got rid of a lot of Republican? I don't stay on top of news, but I know the basics.

There is a very large group of Americans that hate the war and blame the soldiers for it. They see all soldiers as killers and murderers. I don't believe it but there are many who do.

I was in the military at the end of the vietnam war and in ROTC in college at the last few years, and I can remember getting spit on just because I dared to wear the uniform. ** I was in the air force ROTC and had never even picked up a gun but I was still a killer and baby murderer.

And my son who did one tour in desert strom and was in the invasion of Bagdad and did another tour there last year was even physcially attacked in some night clubs back in the states by those who did not want a baby killer and women raper in the club.

And you can see that there are many people like Raynefreak who have been brained wash by those who do not want the nation to be strong,
Oh if a war can last 2 months and no one is hurt or killed. OK, but they beelive that things can be "talked" out and have no idea of the way of life and mind set of the enemies that the US has around the world.

Their way of thinkingis of course what allowed Hilter to talk over all of Europe before the US did anything back then, But we were able to win then because the US allowed soldiers to actually kill the enemy and fight a war. Not have their hands tied by rules of war that does not allow us to kill their leaders when we can, and treats killing each enemy like a murder investigation in the news.

So I would say you have a large group in the US that will hate each soldier just for being in the service. Not nearly all of them of course since if it was a majority the elected political people would stop the war tomorrow, So currently you merely have political people talking against the war and still funding it, trying to keep eveyone happy.

I will give you an example we live in a two of 5000 people, and the American Legion had a cook out and music show ( OK it was more the 60's county western music) but to remember all of those who were in and are in service. Maybe a few hundred showed up.

Bye the way, to Wig and all who have served yesterday, today and will serve tomorrow,

Happy Memorial Day and thank you!

http://www.booksforbrats.net/revised/images/ecards/card2thanks.jpg

Fr. Chuck I have to tell you - I have not run across one American who blames the troops, well that was before today.

I hope to the heavens they never utter their nonsense while crossing my path. Spit flies both ways. (okay I never would, but how great a statement is that :).

How dare they call our troops murders!

I think some people just like to be heard.

and you can see that there are many poeple like Raynefreak who have been brained wash by those who do not want the nation to be strong.


Our country isn't strong. It's weak and growing weaker because no one will stand up for themselves or stand up to the government. If you think that our counrty is just dandy you need to get help because your mental. We have so many problems. We have murder, rape, drugs, and any other crime. Most of the crime is in our government. What happened to the honor? What happened to true, justice and the true American way? It died with Linocln as I said before. I'm not brainwashed. I want this nation to be strong, but it can't be with those who can't stand up and make change. War changes nothing. It just kills people. Maybe someone who is in the war has the cure for AIDS, but it will die with them. We need people over here. Not in some far off land. Things can be settled with peace. I don't agree with war and I don't believe in it. It's the easy way out. Kill all who oppose. That's your way of thinking and so YOU are like Hitler. You call yourself a priest? Ppl in general call themselves Americans? Be ashamed to be human. I'm ashamed to be the same as you. B/c of people with such narrow minded veiws. To try to say I'm like Hitler. You need some help. And to those putting words in my mouth I NEVER said soldiers are murderers. I NEVER said I hate them or blame them. I said they are aiding in something that they want stopped. The soultion is to stop, duh. Common sense is without soldiers we have no war. Don't put words in my mouth and try to make it out like I'm a hateful mean and bad person. Bugger off. Your small minded and conform to whatever is placed in front of u. Open your eyes. I'm terribly offened by people who call themselves human, christians, and Americans. And ashamed.

Oh Rayne - if you are referring to my reference about "murders"... my reply to Fr. Chuck, I was not referring to you at all. But I think you know that.

Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone.

Well thanks for clearing that up. I wanted to make sure that EVERYONE know's where I stand. I will not be called something I am not.

The following are quotes from our friend rayne:
-I think if a person wants to join a war with no point then let them. But they probably aren't coming home. I don't support the war, so I also don't support the people in the war.

*ok, every single person I know here in iraq did not join the military for the war, as you so strongly argue. Don't say you didn't say that because you have said we are here for a pointless war, and you also said "But i also think that its there own fault in a way. For putting thereselves into that situation. In war there is no way to know if you will come out alive." Each individual had a point to their joining the service which fights the war. These range from school money, to getting away from their bad neighborhood, to wanting to be in the military as a childhood dream. They went in for ulterior reason, not every kid who died was a guy who joined for the war.

-I'm 21, I'm an adult and I pity no one.

*i am glad from your extensive life experience you have learned to be hateful (I didn't say hate as a noun, but hateful as an adjective) of everything. I mean you must have had a terrible 21 years of existence. I pray for you and your tribulations. God speed... did anyone else sense the sarcasm there? Hehehe

-In my opinon your all conformists. Make your land a product of you, don't be a product of it.

* by conformists do you mean like I do what everyone around me tells me to do or do you mean that I am a part of a leaderless army, and I am incapable of freethinking and initiative? I hope you answer this one, cause it's a trap!! Watch out.

-Whenever something bad happens I say ''told you so''.

*I just recovered from a gunshot wound to the shoulder and shrapnel to my face hands chest and returned to iraq. Say it... say it... you know you want to.

-I'm not going to kill inocent people... then you said... I NEVER said soldiers are murderers.-

*what do you think a murderer is? Someone who kills innocent people.

-I'm ashamed to be the same as you.

* well if you are ashamed of being financially stable, confident, loving, genuine, humorous ( I think), and obviously a soldier, a moral example, and a leader, then sorry it sucks for you... oh the conformity!!

-I'm terribly offened by people who call themselves human, christians, and Americans... then you said... I'm American, what...

*im glad you have finally offended yourself. I hope I offended you too.

-----------------------------
In summation I would like to put out there a few things...
-we do not fight for our own objectives, true, we fight for the governments. I'm sure some don't agree with that. I will tell you this I do fight for my battle buddy to my left and my battle buddy to my right, for I would expect the same from them.
-our country is strong, because we have people like rayne to be the moral minority. We have people like the unbrainwashed kind that are the moral majority. I like that word... BRAINWASHED. OK, I got off topic there for a minute.
-honor is not lost... maybe there needs to be a renewal class to the upper echelons, but there are at least 3,000 honorable men and women that have left the world, and that honor is a more refined honor (seeing as how being a soldier has been around for thousands of years) than being a brat in some city who probably is in college, and doesn't pay her own tuition because her daddy does. I am self-made. I am happy and I have people that love me. Your soon to be hubby is cheating on you... hahaha I don't mean that, because that would be dishonorable. How's it feel? Not too many people in this world are honorable, to include me. I'm rude but so are you, so you and I are alike in some ways, but remember to be a little more sympathetic to those who preserve your freedom, regardless of their reason (refer back to the why guys joined paragraph), otherwise you come off as ungrateful. I am grateful to hear you opinion.

BRAINWASHED BY THE MAN!!

Sorry, that just slipped out, silly typing fingers.

Don't worry about rayne... you rocks... thanks for the support, and I like your opinions... good answer.

Hi Wiggity - Through most of your post the tears just were streaming down my face. Oh how could I forget the main reason the fight in all of you stays so strong and that is the deep love and connection all of you have for each other. It is something I will always be in such awe of. I remember when it was a friend of mine time to come home and he told me he was torn?? He said it just hurt him so much to leave his fellow soldiers behind. I was so blown away. How can you not respect that and just love that. Well, I do.
Also, I am so sorry you were injured. I hope it is all healed now. You just keep that head up of yours and be proud for what you give to us back home and to your fellow soldier next to you. Once again - thank you.

On the subject of Rayne - well, she is, and doesn't even know this, very special to me. I do just adore her and want more than anything for her to be happy. Rayne, I hope you don't mind me saying that. She is a very caring and bright girl and contributes and gives of herself to others needing help and support on this site. I am a bit surprised of her thoughts and feelings, but I still listen to them. They do sadden me and even shock me, as it is the first I have ever heard anyone say things along those lines, however, her voice counts as well, as she is an American and perhaps in her words maybe there is something to be learned.

Oh, I can imagine your reaction, the pain, the hurt the disbeleif in reading them, but just know from where I sit, from where I stand, and for those who sit and stand next to me, we salute you, we are proud of you, we pray for you every day and night for your safe return. When I say "we", it is people I actually do know.

Stay strong, Stay proud and give my best to all the fine men and women over there.

I hope all of you are home very soon.

Shy you are such a sweetheart

Well at least you have given me my right to speak freely Allheart. Much appriciated. Your currect when you say that I am caring, bright and helps others. From all my posts (although a few were heated) I've given great advice and I hoped helped a few people. For this perticular topic I feel strongly. I will appologize if I may have offended. However, I will not appologize for having my own thoughts. My main points, I disagree with war. I don't think we should aid in it even it we want to. I feel it only serves to keep it going. I don't hate anyone, except hate my father and mother for the pain they caused me. But because of that I have become a better person, wouldn't trade that in for the world. I am glad that some people want to make this country better, but personally I think war isn't the way to do it. I don't like Bush, I don't like our country and where its going. We were strong, but we have lost that within the last 50 years. I'm American, I'm not pround really, just hoping that one day we will be strong, united and honorable. That poverty and drugs and rape and killing will be gone and we can have a good country who cares for each other. Who would do nothing more then help one another. Something we do not have in the whole. It can change with one person, I fear that the one person to do good may be in Iraq or anywhere over seas. It's quite possible. I just hope that they can make it home safety to do a good work for our country. I'm sorry that I'm not proud of this country. But I'm proud of what it was. What it could be again.

I wrote a letter 2 years ago to a 26 year old man in the Army. I didn't know him at all, but I wrote to him like he was my brother. I told him what my dreams are, what my goal are and what I liked about being in a free country. I told him that even though I don't know him I am glad that he's trying to make this country safer. I explained that I don't agree with war, that I wish there was another solution. A few months later I got a long letter from his wife. She told me he died, but that MY letter made him happy and at peace with what he was doing. Seems he wasn't feeling war either. She was glad that I had wrote what I did and she siad that at his funeral they read it and she has hung it on her wall. Til the day I die I will remember what I did for that man.

Sorry there Rayne - my hand clicked enter too soon. What I wanted to say was, it is not my place to give you that right, you get that right just by being an American and bless you for the gift you gave that 26 yr. old soldier. You will never forget it nor will those who love him.

FIRST OFF, I'm only speaking for myself in this post...

I just want to say that I fully support the soldiers in Iraq.

And I think Rosie O'Donell is ignorant.

That is all! ;)

And personally people who are not proud of being an American, should pick one of those ntions you believe is great, and move there. Because to be honest America would be better off without those who don't want to be proud of it. And of course no one wants a war, but often when dealing with some other nations there is no other way. War has to be done at times.

They can go to Columbia or even mexico and find out what real poverty is, or Africa, our poor people are rich to them. We have food stamps in america there is no reason a single person should ever be hungry. There are shelters, every homeless person can sleep in a bed tonight in America if they wanted to, but they would have to be off drugs and drinking or maybe smoking, so they prefer to sleep in the street than follow simple rules

As for the drugs, that is one of the freedoms in Amerca, the freedom to be stupid, and ti is not the governemnts fault there are drugs, it is the people thierself, so the only person you can blame for using drugs is the drug user, I have pity for the harm they cause, but they bring it on thierself, no oen else to really blame.

And personally people who are not proud of being an American, should pick one of those ntions you beleive is great, and move there. If you believe that citizens should accept the pablum, roll over and take it in the butt then you are part of the problem. Wanting to effect change to make something better should be encouraged. Just stating that it's worse somewhere else is throwing a red herring into the discussion because you have no other argument.

A lot of good posts to read before adding my own. It's great to have so many people that differ in opinion. This is what America is all about. There are many countries where it is criminal to disagree with those in charge. One of those countries WAS Iraq. I am glad that we don't have to fear that here.
Despite what some believe, War is sometime necessary. Where would our country be if there was no Civil War, or Revolutionary War?
A war needs at least 2 sides. Without two sides it is genocide.
This being said, I echo what I have posted before. I served with many people in the Marines with anti-Bush attitudes or that were very liberal in their views. This does not make them a bad person or a bad soldier (they were some of the best). For most that serve in the military, IT IS AN HONOR. We are not serving our govt. We are serving the American people. At this point, I probably disagree with Bush more than I agree with him. So what? I was still a good Marine. I still support my govt.
I am still proud of my voluntary service and no one will take that away from me. People like Rosie are in the public eye and therefore people listen to them. In reality, she is just one person that opposes the war. A straw poll of those that oppose the war and Bush, probably would show that 90%+ support the troops.

WwIraq--don't fret. At the end of the day, if everyone spits on me, tears at my uniform, and ridicules my family, I hold my head high and don't regret a single moment of my military service.

Be proud.

Well, I am with Fr. Chuck all the way on this one. But first, let me explain. I want to be sure that it is clear that I am not referring to anything that Rayne has written. You see, Rayne, stated that she has "hope" that poverty... drugs... and I am so with her on that. Where there is hope, to me anyway, there is a love of something. Rayne, I am NOT trying to put words in your mouth, please don't think I am, but when you want better for something, it means you care about that something. So, if you want better for America, then you do indeed care for America. So, that is how I read what Rayne is saying. I more than apologize if I am wrong.

So, with all of that said, this has nothing to do with anything that Rayne has written. This is a general statement.

For those people, born in America, not proud to be an American and have no hope and wish no good for America, and want to bring America down, point out our areas of weakness, but offer nothing positive in return, then yes, there are airports all over this country, with planes leaving daily, please get on one and ensure it is one way. Bon Voyage!! See you. Now, I have to say, I have never in all my days met a single soul who falls into this category, however, if you are out there, please call for depature times.

I love my country because it is where I was born, it continues to give me so much and I feel I could never match giving back in return. I in no way want to infer that America is the greatest country, it is one of many, on this wonderful and beautiful planet. Oh this planet has its problems, of which, we all contribute to, myself included.

I haven't decided whether I'm for ar against the war. I don't know enough about it but I definitly support the soldiers. I think that they are making a huge sacrafice by leaving their friends and family to go fight a war that half of their country is against. You have to be really brave to do what they do on a daily basis. I know i wouldn't be able to go through that. I can't even stand watching the news sometimes because it's so sad.

There are some damn nasty people in this world that will not hesitate to kill you for something they want. Those people range from the street punk all the way to the leaders of nations.

Be against the politics that brought on war, but never - ever - blame the soldiers that are serving to protect you. As long as there are those that are willing to kill you for what you got or just because you think differently, there will always be a need for defense and protection.

Soldiers don't get to choose which wars they will participate in, but you can choose to tell your political leaders that you don't agree with the war they've choose to commit those soldiers to.

For most that serve in the military, IT IS AN HONOR. We are serving the American people.

Be proud.


And there you have it above. That is what our serviceman and women believe in their hearts. And if you doubt that, you just better think again.

I can not even begin to convey to you the depth of the love and pride the service men and
Women demonstrate on a daily basis, it just excudes from them.

Oh and Autta, spit on you? Tear at your uniform? They better just not. There is nothing American about that. Continue to hold your head high, you have ever reason to.

And on this Memorial Day - I share the below with you. Yes, it is moving and may bring tears, but we just can not forget. Okay, this will be the last from me. Sorry don't mean to clog the thread.

Thank you to all are brave men and women and their families.

YouTube - Tribute To Our Military (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xJnT-Sn0lY)

Well My name is Greg and I was just setting my girlfriend on here... I totally agree. Naïve!

I share the same thoughts as the majority. I hate the war but would never blame the troops. It brings a tear to my each time our evening news shows some arriving home to their families as well as the tears when it show many more leaving them.

I do however have a question to those who say they are serving in this war to protect us. They are serving in the military controlled by our governments and they are in Iraq under government order. So once again I do not blame the troops. I applaud their courage. I doubt that I would ever have as much to go to a war that I don't believe in. But my question is how in this war do you consider them to be protecting us. The war in Iraq has never been about protecting the US (and Allies). They claim it to be about ousting a horrible dictator and delivering democracy to a much maligned country. Protection does not and has never come into it in my opinion with respect to the war in Iraq. Afghanistan OK, but Iraq, no!

War is only justifiable in my opinion as a means of defense / protection (e.g. WWI WWII).

So my reason for support of the troops is out of love and respect for human life only, and the genuine wish they come home safely to live a peaceful and happy life. In this instance my support can not be based on the fact that they are serving to protect me.

Are my views wrong. If someone can explain to me why I may be wrong I would be more than happy to change my opinion.

Jesushelper I thank you for your comment on not only my post, but one several other's as well. I'll say that I'm offened truly by the comments from hvacservicetech_07 first off you don't know me. You don't know who I am or what I like or what hell I've servived in my life. Sure I'm thick-skined, but only to protect myself and other's around me. I'm a good person and I come here to share my thought and to share my feelings. I bare my soul to you people day after day. Most of you have come to know me and have given me helpful advice. Other's judge me and mock me for things I say. Get over it. I am going to continue to say what I want. They easiest thing to do would be to stop coming to this site and not bother being hurt by you. BUT what about that kid who wants to kill herself and I can help put an end to those harmful thoughts? I'd rather be crying all day and sad all my life then to allow myself to deny good people comments that may or may not help them. I will take my chances. I'm not a coward or a hateful person. I am scared sometimes. I see my family and I see hate and hurt and guit. I see my country and see death and war. So forgive me for losing faith, strength and trust. I'm a women if you hadn't noticed, and I am a women in every sense of the word. (not saying all women are like me, but referring to the old classifiaction)


ANYWAY It's nice to know that my points and feelings are shared and that I am not the only ''brainwashed'' person in America. I'm glad that you shared your feelings. It made me realize that I'm not always wrong and that its OK to voice an opinion. I was sitting here picking at my words and doubting myself because of some of the hurtful comments I've been given by a few whom didn't even bother to post a reply to this topic. Which shows me their lack of concern for what they speak. If you've got something to say say it. Anyway, thank you for your words as small as they are, they made my day a bit brighter. It's nice to know that someone is on your side. If we were all alone, what would happen to us? We'd go nuts, lol. A lot of people seem to disagree with some of my thoughts, however I'm sure there's someone out there, perhaps better with words then me who shares my veiws and can voice them better then me. Maybe then someone as small as me or them will be heard amougst the swarm of bee's.

If I can't change the world in real life, I will do it on the internet. I'm trying, and well that's good enough for me and anyone I can help.

Okay I'm back. Only because I see some comments being geared towards the troops. I respect that fact that you should be able to post just like me. But enough is enough.

Say what you want about our/my country, about my/our President - All of which, okay, I don't like it and not a little, but oh well, I have learned to accpet and embrace all different view points.

But to dare, to dare put this at the foot of my military sorry way over the line. Excuse me, most of these are kids 18 and 19. They joined the military for a variety of reasons and then the crap hit the fan and like HONERABLE men and women they answered the call.
How dare anyone dare to say one negative word about our troops while they sit their butts down in a nice cozy home, and our kids are over there risking their lives, losing their lives, and limbs. How dare anyone spread such negativty when they need our love and support.

Do you EVER EVER EVER hear any military family on the news complaining ever? No. And they are the ones giving up the most. So when you are willing to sacrfice as much as they are, then you may have a leg to stand on, but not until then.

Okay I'm done. P'd off to the 10th degree, but done ranting.

Rayne,

Beneath some of your anger and obvious youth I can in some ways understand your point of view. I can see what you are trying to say. Perhaps sometimes it is the way you deliver it however that causes people to take it out of context.

Im not telling you how to express your opinion or what opinion to have. But perhaps if you have a concern that your opinion is coming across as hurtful and you don't want it to be, then you have to address and evaluate how you deliver it.

Remember that is hard for many to see your emotions through words on a screen. You have to be clear in describing exactly how you feel for people to really see it.

For the record, I am totally against the war in Iraq. I despise war as much as most people. I can't blame the troops though. But I can see how their involvement makes it hard for you to feel how some others may. But just remember that they are human beings with as big a heart as you have and they probably don't agree with it either. They are just doing their job, much like a paper processor at the Tax Office. I bet he doesn't agree with paying the amount of tax he does, but he still aids in collecting it. May be a bad analogy but you get my point.

Jesushelper i thank you for your comment on not only my post, but one several other's as well. It's nice to know that my points and feelings are shared and that i am not the only ''brainwashed'' person in America. I'm glad that you shared your feelings. It made me realize that i'm not always wrong and that its ok to voice an opinion. I was sitting here picking at my words and doubting myself because of some of the hurtful comments i've been given by a few whom didn't even bother to post a reply to this topic. Which shows me their lack of concern for what they speak. If you've got something to say say it. Anyway, thankyou for your words as small as they are, they made my day a bit brighter. It's nice to know that someone is on your side. If we were all alone, what would happen to us? We'd go nuts, lol. A lot of people seem to disagree with some of my thoughts, however i'm sure there's someone out there, perhaps better with words then me who shares my veiws and can voice them better then me. Maybe then someone as small as me or them will be heard amougst the swarm of bee's.

Hi Rayne,

I am glad you feel better and I hope I have not written anything to make you feel bad. We both feel very strongly about this and probably agree on more than we realize. Just so you know, Jesushelper is from Canada, not America. But I am glad his words gave you comfort. Rayne, I am proud of you for being 20 and having caring as much as you do. Honest.

That pisses me off, I can't believe some jerk spit on soldiers! It doesn't matter if you don't believe in the war, it's the soldier's choice if they want to join the military or not. Soldiers deserve nothing but respect for what they do, whether you want them to do it or not.

Okay I'm back. Only because I see some comments being geared towards the troops. I respect that fact that you should be able to post just like me. But enough is enough.

Say what you want about our/my country, about my/our President - All of which, okay, I don't like it and not a little, but oh well, I have learned to accpet and embrace all different view points.

But to dare, to dare put this at the foot of my military sorry way over the line. Excuse me, most of these are kids 18 and 19. They joined the military for a variety of reasons and then the crap hit the fan and like HONERABLE men and women they answered the call.
How dare anyone dare to say one negative word about our troops while they sit their butts down in a nice cozy home, and our kids are over there risking their lives, loosing their lives, and limbs. How dare anyone spread such negativty when they need our love and support.

Do you EVER EVER EVER hear any military family on the news complaining ever? No. And they are the ones giving up the most. So when you are willing to sacrfice as much as they are, then you may have a leg to stand on, but not until then.

Okay I'm done. P'd off to the 10th degree, but done ranting.


Hey Allheart,

Sorry to hear your disappointment. As stated I agree fully with what you are saying. No blame at all should be placed at the feet of the troops. Not at all.

I hope it wasn't my post that you felt was being geared towards the troops. Im not sure I follow!! If it was something in particular in someone's post would you care to share so it can be cleared up?

No Skell it wasn't yours and it wasn't in a post. Sorry Skell.

No need AH. I love the pride you display in your country and its people. It is very special and much like I am with my country. I don't agree with everything we do but I love it all the same!

For the record, I do care. Or else I wouldn't post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that I am a poor person, that I am not the brightest person and that I will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess I just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish I could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But I'm not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.


Rayne,

Now I will flat out disagree with you. This is why I find you so special, but I wish you could see it yourself. Rayne, at 20 my priority was where we all were going for the weekend and for that I should be ashamed. You are brilliant and you do make a difference a huge one. I do just adore you, hope you don't mind me saying that. You care and I now you care. Like you said otherwise you wouldn't even post. Be proud of the fact that you care. You do make a difference and will continue to do so. And hey, I bet when you are being lazy that is when you do your best thinking ;) .

Don't you dare ever refer to yourself as useless EVER. On that thought I do expect you to conform. ;)

You are one special girl. I just hope you soon realize it.

For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

You can be great and do something to change the world Rayne. But I assure you that you won't with an attitude like that.

So get up, get out and start kicking some ar$e! Do it respectfully but never be afriad to have a go. It only takes you to get through to one person something good and you have changed the world.

Your only as bright as the amount of light you let in!

Since I cannot leave you a rate answer, I'd like to know how you think I'm helping people. I just got in an agruement with my fiancé today because of what I think. I'm not loved by the masses. Sometime's I can sound like a heart'less #$@%&. So I don't feel up to giving my opinons anymore. No one agrees anyway. But I don't see how I'm helping anyone. I certainly didn't help the soldier who died. I don't think I could save any of the soldiers from their fates. I haven't invented anything useful, or cured any cancers. So what keeps people going who are like me? Small, somewhat weak and just don't know what to do. If anything, I think people should write a long letter as if to a friend you haven't seen in awhile and send it ot a solider. It could be the last thing they read before they... die. Or the first thing they read before doing something very important and living to tell about it.

Rayne, bringing comfort to some of those that you do when you respond right here at AMHD, can equate to a cure for cancer for them.

I haven't done any of those wonderful things either, but you can start small. Just by giving a smile to an older person in the street that you see. You have been gifted with great insight and intelligence, use it in a caring way. Don't worry if others agree with you, it's okay to disagree, its how we learn. Heck, most times, no one agrees with me. Hubby never agrees with my viewpoint, hardly ever. Thank goodness he loves me :). But when things come from your heart, they tend to make the most impact.

Now you are feeling sorry for yourself. Something we all do at times but never our proudest moments.

You know you helped that soldier and his family. To say you didn't is disrespectful to the kind words his wife offered you and the heartfelt thanks you received from his family. They read the letter at his funeral for goodness sake so to say it didn't help is silly.

When people don't agree with your opinion is not a reason to stop voicing it. It is more of a reason.

Most of th US never agreed with a word Cassius Clay said early on. But eventually Muhammad Ali was loved by the world. If your not sure what I'm talking about please look him up. He is a Champion for the human race. But like you, many disagreed with his thoughts on the war in Vietnam. But he changed the world by continuing to give them. Not giving up!!

Personally, i am agaisnt the war. If people want to join the war, then im against them as well. Sure, if i see that a 18 year old girl or boy was killed i stop and think how pointless that young death was. How sad it is. But i also think that its there own fault in a way. For putting thereselves into that situation. In war there is no way to know if you will come out alive. I don't mourn for anyone, i think that its sad though. If i was asked to serve i'd say no. Why? Because its not my problem. I'm not going to kill inocent ppl. I don't believe in war. War is pitiful. Just b/c some nut job thinks we are a strong nation (which in reality were not) and thinks going to war and getting into Israles business is ok doesn't mean it is. If ppl wouldnt stand up to the governemt who will? There is something wrong with this country. Why join a war that you know is wrong? Why fight for nothing. Whatever. That kid in the war doesn't have the chance to get married and change the world. If they want to send people over send older people who had more of a life. When it comes down to it, i think this whole war is completely retarded. In my opinion, if Bush continues to do this he could end up in trouble with crazy's. We know how scary those people can be. I don't like Bush because i think his whole ''I <3 Jesus'' thing is completely fake. But i don't think he's the man for presisdent. I blame him for putting thoughts of war into young teens. I disagree with the war, soldiers fighting in this pointless, godless, nameless, and never-ending war. I wish the best for any of you, but i don't have to say i ''told you so''. I like Rosie she's got some things right. At the same time not everything she says is what i think. She's has the right to say what she thinks though its a free country and freedoom of speech. I'm American, what happened to our foundations? God fearing, honorable and loving people and nation? It died with Lincoln.

If you want to hear a song that will make you cry your eyes out and shake your head with pain listen to this song
YouTube - P!nk - Dear Mr. President Offical Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugH5MUNNL0c&mode=related&search=)
Good luck to any of you soldiers, i don't know you but i know your honestly thinking your changing the world. Realize maybe your not maybe your all just pawns in a childish game.

Ohh and on this matter i speak my veiws, my fiance's, my family's and anyone else who agree's. So don't think im speaking for all America. Thank you.


How can you sit there and say that when a soldier dies for our country, you don't mourn for them, you think it's their fault because they joined the army. And stop pretending like all teenagers are mindless zombies and we follow whatever propaganda says. You're only 21! Wow I guess 3 years of being an adult changed you completely. I agree with you, war is pointless and our president is a complete idiot, but you can't sit there and blame the people that have to do his dirty work. You piss me off so much I don't know what to say to you cause what you believe is heartless.


For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

You contradict everything you say! For the record... I do care, but I don't mourn troops when they die. You can be whatever you want to be, if you want to do something good then get off your a$$ and do it. The point of life is love.

Remind me again, who is doing the car bombs and killing innocent civilians?

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:
Whoa! You need to stop that. That war is about oil, and distraction. Now your just being rude. It takes a lot of courage to be honest to soldiers that have been brain washed. I am in Canada and your government elect are now using my corrupt government . It's like religion, easy to argue but the blind just don't want to see. So many of my bud's are there now, and half know what it's all about. The other half know and don't care, the pay is so good. You wanted straight answers... Well here. I think that anyone who enlisted since at least 2003 is a dumb-. Please private message me for a debate, I understand that what I have said needs more foundation for some of you to see where these opinions are from. But over all anyone who voted for bush should have enlisted. I don't agree with spitting.

Hi Rayne,

I am glad you feel better and I hope I have not written anything to make you feel bad. We both feel very strongly about this and probably agree on more than we realize. Just so you know, Jesushelper is from Canada, not America. But I am glad his words gave you comfort. Rayne, I am proud of you for being 20 and having caring as much as you do. Honest.
I hope that you all feel it is okay for me to pipe in on this discussion even though I am from canada, but what goes on in america. Our next door neighbour effects us here in Canada, effects what happens around the world. So it is important for all of us to speak up and say what we feel. Also all my fathers side of the family are americans and currently live in the states.
I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen.

Lets just say the majority of people know that the American government went into iraq with no evidence. Iraq did not attack america. Certain terrist groups did but that does not make the right for a president to call war on a whole country. These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government.

Also think about this which Rayne made a very good point. These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government.

Another thing I would add, I think that majority of Americans was mislead, including soldiers on the war. Now there finding out that the leader of their country is a liar and much more that I would like to say but now people are waking up from a deep sleep it seems and instead of blindly following a leader, they are actually questioning his leadership and know that they lead them down the wrong path. Question is, is it too late to fix the damage that already has been done? To americans and around the world because of this.

Joe

There is one thing I have to say to the soldier. If you went in and you really believed in the cause, If you do your job and you break no human ethic codes {besides being there} then that's what you got to do... But your job would really be to save people. I couldn't do it cause I would be fighting my trigger happy com-padres all the time. I have a few friends that were in Bosnia too, They say stuff goes on in these places that would blow your mind in reference to massacres. But I do love team America.

Maybe I'm dumb. But I do believe in our cause. I don't agree how we got there though. I believe in helping those that cannot help themselves. I not only believe this, but I feel that it is a duty of MINE because of how fortunate I am.

Yes, I hand out change to as many people as I can on the corners in Denver, and no, I don't care what they buy with it.

A lot of soldiers were enlisted way before this thing started, for various reason, education etc... I don't think there are many people in this country that side with Mr. Bush, but what can you do? What if instead of the world trade center being bombed on 9-11 it was Canada being attacked? Would you feel different? There were a lot of p I s s e d off people in this country that wanted revenge , many people enlisted, because they were trying to help, now they are stuck, they may not believe in this war but someone has to finish this job, Why can't you people just support them? If you don't agree with the way this war is being lead, why not instead of sitting in front of your computer, stand up and do something?

Whoa!! You need to stop that. That war is about oil, and distraction. Now your just being rude. It takes a lot of courage to be honest to soldiers that have been brain washed. I am in Canada and your government elect are now using my corrupt government . It's like religion, easy to argue but the blind just don't want to see. So many of my bud's are there now, and half know what it's all about. The other half know and don't care, the pay is so good. You wanted straight answers...Well here. I think that anyone who enlisted since at least 2003 is a dumb-. Please private message me for a debate, I understand that what I have said needs more foundation for some of you to see where these opinions are from. But over all anyone who voted for bush should have enlisted. I don't agree with spitting.


How is asking a question, being rude? Sorry, you lost me there.

I thought the same thing, must be a Canadian thing?

I hope that you all feel it is okay for me to pipe in on this discussion even though I am from canada, but what goes on in america. Our next door neighbour effects us here in Canada, effects what happens around the world. So it is important for all of us to speak up and say what we feel. Also all my fathers side of the family are americans and currently live in the states.
I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen.

Lets just say the majority of people know that the American governement went into iraq with no evidence. Iraq did not attack america. Certain terrist groups did but that does not make the right for a president to call war on a whole country. These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government.

Also think about this which Rayne made a very good point. These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government.

Another thing I would add, I think that majority of Americans was mislead, including soldiers on the war. Now there finding out that the leader of their country is a liar and much more that I would like to say but now people are waking up from a deep sleep it seems and instead of blindly following a leader, they are actually questioning his leadership and know that they lead them down the wrong path. Question is, is it too late to fix the damage that already has been done? To americans and around the world because of this.

Joe


Joe, of course it is okay. I just wanted Rayne to be sure it was clear where you were from, that's all.

Again, our young men and women are honerable. They signed up for a job and they are standing up and doing it. Did someone on this thread infer they are now to be considered stupid? I know it wasn't you Joe. Not sure who it was and frankly it doesn't matter.

I will say this, I believe Rayne's comments come from her sincere compassion and she is entitled to them, 100%.

Personally, and I of course just speak for me, am so damn proud of our fine young men and women, and nothing, no one, not one word written or spoken twisted to make them appear other then what they truly are and that is HONERABLE young men and women. It sickens me that anyone would dare to make them other than that.

Perhaps I am amongst those that are stupid to allow myself to get in a so called debate with some who are using this war as a platform to disquise their deep seeded contempt for our beautiful country.

Get them...

You could join the military, that would make you a difference maker.

Greg, the onspiracy theorist here... but the first reply was right, some are speculation, but mostly right. There are literally 50 points of view fighting each other here. Fighting ech other, us, themselves... very weird time here.

What's your MOS dude?

Nice... im just grateful to actually hear what people think on this, and their opinions... im very enlightened, and humbled

Oh no, not this guy... well I'm appreciative of your opinions, and I'm going to read them later I think

Isn't she a sweetheart? I think so.

Rockerchick you rock... good thoughts!!

The following qoutes are taken from Jesushelper76's post. (I'm sorry I called you American, I forgot you were from Canada-my bad)

"I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen."

Yes I agree, my words were perhaps not entirely well written, but for the most part I thought I wrote what I felt. However, what was meant and what was taken from my words are completely different. I don't recall ever saying that soldiers are straight up murderers. I said killing innocents are wrong, but if your leader says to kill then you must. Therefore its not murder. Innocents are killed in war at some point, weither tried or not. Fact is fact. I do think so of the comments as I've said before were rude and some of the people who made them didn't even bother to post about it and what they think so they have no presidence here.

"These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government."

I agree, and this is one of the things I was trying to get across with my posts. The war is at this point never-ending. Sending people over is sending them to their likely deaths. So it is not my job to pity them or to cry for them. I'm sorry but, I have common sense to know what has a pourpose and what does not. I wouldn't go to war simply because I have a life here. Why would I want to possibly die for a lost cause? Maybe just maybe if I had no life (not speaking for others) and it was a good cause I would. But another reason is I don't believe in war. There are other options. We just like war, plain and simple.

"These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government."

Once again I completely agree. You have a choice. Just like that man has a choice to pull the trigger. If you want pity or a pat on the back for your efforts, no offense but it woln't be from me. All you or anyone will get is a good luck. You choose to join the war, maybe for the wrong reasons, maybe for the right ones. Doesn't really matter point is its going to get you no where when the government still sends more over and doesn't bother to put a stop to the war. If you want to change something, change the government. That is were all the problems lie. So in conclusion, aid-ing the war IS aid-ing the government and if you aid the government you probably agree with their laws and teaching and whatever. Personally, I'm not going to aid any thing that I don't abide.

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500940.html)

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:
I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soldiers , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted. It's only hearsay so it may not have happened at all. If the Westboro Baptist Church has not been prosecuted then don't hold your breath for alleged spitters.

Don't listen to that wack job loony Rosie. She does not speak for the American people . She is in fact a poor representative of the opposition .

It is fair to oppose the war ;I don't ;but she is so over the top that she does not reflect the opposition position well at all. Her calling the troops terrorists was so over the top moonbattery that when she was challenged on the premise she imploded and picked a fight with a co-host on "THE VIEW " which ultimately led to her leaving the show this week.

Whether one agrees with the premise of our going to war ,the issue now is what kind of Iraq do we leave if we were to "re-deploy " now .

This was my posting on another site over the weekend :

American forces freed 42 kidnapped Iraqis — some of whom had been hung from ceilings and tortured for months — in a raid Sunday on an al-Qaida hideout north of Baghdad, the U.S. military said.

Military officials said the operation, launched on tips from residents, showed that Iraqis in the turbulent Diyala province were turning against Sunni insurgents and beginning to trust U.S. troops.

"The people in Diyala are speaking up against al-Qaida," said Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq. (U.S. frees 42 Iraqi captives in raid | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4840782.html) )


This is indicative of what the new Iraq would look like if we were to leave prematurely... very similar to the Iraq we liberated. What is the utility of such slaughter houses ? Certainly they are not for information gathering . Why did Uday Hussein put his rivals into woodchippers? What did he gain beyond pure sadistic pleasure that the terror and fear produced ? This to him and I suspect to the al-Qaeda scum is nothing more than a form of recreation .

We know by the capture of the illustrated torture manual (one of the most under-reported stories in this war )that this is what they have in mind as the future Iraq. This was not done to get information. This was done for the same reason Saddam Hussein and his thugs did it: To intimidate the civilian population.

What we fight is a cult of evil and it doesn't matter if it's leaders names are Hussein or bin Laden. They are all heads of the same hydra.

Happy Memorial Day . We have tasked our brave soldiers with a mission worthy of the fight by the 'Greatest Generation'.The liberation of a small torture cell is small compared to the liberation of the Nazi camps ;but the spirit is the same. Then we fought evil because we recognized the imperitive. Today too many of us see it as optional.

I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

Nice post and very sincere. But I want to pose the question again.

How is this war in Iraq about protecting you? It has never been about defense. Afghanistan maybe was about protection, but Iraq? No way! It was an invasion to oust Hussein and take control of their country. Not defend our countries (the Coalition - US, Britain, Australia etc).

The War in iraq has been a mistake from the beginning. Most will agree on that other than George W and his lap dogs Blair, Howard et al.

I hardly know a person down under here that supported going into Iraq, yet we have a Prime Minister who ignored that and sent us in anyway. Now he is about to lose our Election here in November in a landslide on the back of this. It will be an overwhelming victory for the Opposition party and we will have a change of Government. Yet it is too late. We are in Iraq and there is no way out. Pulling out troops now is inconceivable. We have been committed to a war that seemingly has no end.

It is a horrible mess but it is not the soldiers fault. If you ask me our leaders have so much blood on their hands that the stain will never wash off with many!!

As always there are no winners in war. And this is a perfect example if this.

[QUOTE=bushg]who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America.

HOG-WASH!

That is so... must calm down. They are dying for oil and that's it. LOOK FOR THE ADGENDAS PEOPLE!! It's your Country, investigate! What freedoms in America were in jeopardy? The fuel? It's not free, it's people like you who let this get so far out of hand. How on earth did you get your computer hooked up? I honestly wish you didn't. And that girl that is on that show THE VIEW... She is a die hard democrat. And an attention seeker, she knew that O'Donnell was leaving soon and had to get her little bra tied in a knot. Afghanistan was a foot in a door and nothing more. You put so much value into your freedoms learn how to spell it.
Quote:
Bill Maher: [to Richard Perle] I think you guys might have been right about the big picture, and I'm not above saying, you know what, maybe I was wrong. Okay. But on the other half of it, why the incompetence? Why was this war conducted so badly from the beginning? And you have to admit that cost lives. And my theory is because Republicans are sentimentalists. Because you guys have such rose-colored glasses about America that you thought as soon as we showed up in Iraq, they'd be going, 'Freedom! Americans!' And that's why we didn't need armor on the tanks because they'd be giving us flowers and chocolates and nylons.

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500940.html)

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.







GOOD POINT to bring up.

Whether I agree with the war or not those poor people are better off with out insane ruling them... and yes his insanity would have eventually come to America.

Comments on this post
bushg disagrees: id di not say ii agreed with the war only that I thank the soilders...they are just following commands

I did not say you didn't thank the soldiers. I didn't say you agreed with the war. I didn't say they weren't just following commands. In fact if you read my posts in this thread I have clearly stated I place no blame with the soldiers. Your disagreement was totally uncalled for and wrong.

I simply asked you a question how you consider this war in Iraq to be about defending our freedom and protecting our countries. That was my question.

You must not be able to read properly if you could not see that!!

Skell I did not answer your thread to begin with... I answered wiggitywackiraq.. jesus it wasn't directed at you. I'll say it again,thank you American Soldiers

Most people don't choose where they go, once they are in the military they are "sent" to war... just because someone is a soldier, doesn't mean they agree with the war. And even if they agreed with the war, the only person that can be blamed or deserves to be "spit on" is the one who started the war. And even that is up for personal interpretation. Some may feel it was the presidents fault. Some may feel it was the various terrorist organizations in Iraq. Either way, the troops cannot be blamed and only deserve our respect and support.

And because I have a feeling Rayne may say something to this extent: Those who have joined during the war may feel obligated or as if it is their duty to fight and do something honorable. To be courageous and face death, pain and suffering. That is something you, Rayne, are too cowardly to face and so you use your naïve thoughts and beliefs to hide behind. So that said, you need to stop hating on these people because they are doing something which you, nor I, even can imagine the courage it takes.

skell I did not answer your thread to begin with... I answered wiggitywackiraq.. jesus it wasn't directed at you. I'll say it again,thank you American Soldiers

You disagreed with my post. And what you said when you disagreed was directed at me. Do you even understand what you are saying here. Please go and read your contributions again. This includes your ratings of people answers.

Your very frustrating.

=Greg Quinn]They are dying for oil and that's it. LOOK FOR THE ADGENDAS PEOPLE!!

So in my quest to be as objective as possible while still hanging on to my values, I want to know more about our oil agenda. It definitely would make sense (from a capitalist standpoint), and I will admit that it may be possible that our entire purpose for going into Iraq is for control of oil (though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.

I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely.

Logically, it would seem that if this was a documented fact and not just an opinion held by some, that there would be a huge investigation led by the Dems into this. So far, I have only heard arguments about grounds for impeachment based on the lack of evidence for WMDs. This leads me to believe that it is not substantiated nor will it be (this doesn't mean that it isn't true). If it is true, why am I spending almost as much money on gasoline each month as I do on food (does this seem wrong to anyone else but me)?

I feel like spitting on someone when I drop $55 on a tank of gas. Who should I blame for this?

If we don't take control of the middle east and their oil, China and Russia will certainly get around to it. A zillion Chinese soldiers would have had it finished by now though. The same way they would finish us off if we happened to run out of oil. Thank the inept jerks, Democrats and Republicans for not giving our troops the support and the means to make short work of it. Since WWII, we seem to have forgotten how. I want to end it by winning so our troops can come home.
Rosie O'Donnal is a fat, stupid pig. I can't listen to her since I can't look at her.
As far as that little puke that spit on your buddies, he needs his a*# whooped!

This is to my friend Auttajasi : Quote... It definitely would make sense (from a capitalist standpoint), and I will admit that it may be possible that our entire purpose for going into Iraq is for control of oil (though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.
Unquote...

I'm not being rude but I have a ton of info that would blow your mind and I will pm you soon... But easy info is just type in war and oil on Google and read topics that come up. I was reading the paper 3yrs ago and saw a little something about Iran, I said "Oh no that's where they are heading next!" And now look. I have a friend named Corie, awesome guy, he has kind of lost himself doing research on this and other subjects. There is a rabbit hole, and I promise that it is so much darker and deeper than you could ever imagine. Some people really hate the truth. And they choose to ignore things that are so easy to see, you just have to look. My military buds know and really don't care. I don't really respect that but at the end of their sights may be an innocent civi, and I know they wouldn't pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure you would do the same Auttajasi. Off topic... I have so many sites you should see, and I have a DVD underground collection from Corie that stands tall, I assure you that proof is thick as oil. But needs to be researched.

The War for Oil (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8582.htm)

War For Oil? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/warforoil.html)

In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue (washingtonpost.com) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A18841-2002Sep14)
That is just a few. Make sure you investigate with out prejudice and tell me if you find more than motive. I have so many sites in my mind but can't retrieve any off hand due to my dropping all of this about a year ago. It can be too much. I'll have a few for tomorrow.



And because I have a feeling Rayne may say something to this extent: Those who have joined during the war may feel obligated or as if it is their duty to fight and do something honorable. To be courageous and face death, pain and suffering. That is something you, Rayne, are too cowardly to face and so you use your naive thoughts and beliefs to hide behind. So that said, you need to stop hating on these people because they are doing something which you, nor I, even can imagine the courage it takes.



Oops... I disagree with that last bit, that's what happens when you have a kid. Sorry I was distracted. Rayne is not a COWARD as far as I know and I'm pretty sure you as well, you have not seen this person in action what so ever! You can't just go and say something like that. In prison if you call someone a rat they better be a f***'n rat. Well, where I come from if you if you call someone a coward you better be damn sure they are one. People have opinions and sometimes they are wrong and deserve a verbal lick, but that had 0 wit in it. Why did you call Rayne a coward?

First of all thank you for serving our country. My husband recently returned from Iraq and my father a 37 year retired marine served in veitnam. All I can say is simply this FORGET ABOUT ROSIE ODONNELL!! its nothing but a ratings ploy and she's off the show now for good. Don't listen to the celebrity mentality cause no one believes it. Rose is a stupid insincere woman who has nothing but her own agenda to work on. She wants her own show and thinks this is how to get it.
That said. Every man woman and child here are for the soldiers. We are pro soldier. There's not one person who is not affected by having a family member or knows someone who is serving. Even with my husband home, I still pray for everyone of you to come home safely.
As for the veitnam mentality, you got to see that we are the children of those service people who weren't treated with respect and called baby burner as my father was at the time of his home coming. We don't like the war or any war. But we do support the soldiers over there fighting. You walk on walls and tell us it's going to be allright. You walk off planes on a 30/30 insertion and don't blink an eye. You don't just serve your country you are the back bone of the country. You are the reason that flag stands for freedom.
So let Rosie have her say and let all her hot air out. Once she's done that, she'll disappear into thin air.

I'm proud to know people like you, my husband and my father does too.

Be careful and be safe. Come home soon. We love you.

Ha ha... sorry I was angry. There should be a "maybe" in there somewhere. But still, she has no idea what it is like. Neither do I really for that matter. But I have had friends in the war and friends who have contemplated joining the war. Most of them are sick with fear before they decide to do it. It's tough and I wish soldiers would just be respected for how courageous they are.

Deedee you call me a coward. I suppose you could say that, but I disagree. If I am a coward then why do I not fear speaking my mind weither you or anyone like what I say or not? Some people are too scared to speak their mind, I'm not. That makes your staement contradictory I'm not scared of anything except that maybe I wolnt go to heaven. I've taken care of myself for years and in doing so got my way out of tough spots.. Point is I never once said or meant to say that I don't have respect for soldiers. I do, and I do wish them all well, but sorry they aid in something I do not support and thus I cannot comply with what they do. I'm in no way naïve, I have had to grow up faster then a lot of kids do. My folks weren't there to teach me things I taught myself. I'm certainly not going to allow someone who knows nothing of me break me down. Sorry I have more strength then that. Your 18 right? Your probably still in school, so I think you have some more learning to do. As do we all. Only some of us have to learn faster then others. You see things one way as many other people may too. Sometime's being open minded is a good thing.

Rayne, I apologize for calling you a coward... honestly I didn't really mean it to be so harsh... it was more of a proposition not a statement.

Yea, I'm pretty familiar with a Google search. That's how I got here. I wanted to know what you thought about it. There are a million sites about the "War for oil." I am not inclined to believe something just because someone wrote it and posted it on the internet trying to increase traffic to their site, while at the same time, raking in some dough from advertisers. Anybody can write an article.

I Wrote:
"I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely."
"Documented" may have been the wrong word to use. In my field, documented doesn't mean just written down somewhere. It means published in a scholarly journal that has been peer reviewed.

I could write an article about how the Democrats actually blackmailed Bush into invading Iraq, but writing it wouldn't make it true.

The point I tried (and clearly failed) to make was that if this is so great an argument, why is it not the basis for Bush's impeachment? I would think this argument would be highly more effective than lying about WMDs (I'm still not convinced he lied. I think he may have been fooled like everybody else. Remember, you argue that he isn't the sharpest crayon in the box).
I am saying that it WOULD make sense from a capitalist standpoint and it MAY be possible, and it could also be seen as just a bonus for overthrowing one of the world's most vicious dictators. I've read a tiny chunk of the 32 million + sites on "war oil iraq" and there are a lot of good arguments in you favor. I want clear evidence and not just circumstantial.
To me, the fact that the Dems are pretty much leaving this one alone, tells me that while it may be a good argument, it is very hard to prove someone's intentions, and it isn't a can of worms that they want to open right now.
Dan Rather tried one of his hunches, and it turned out to be a huge journalistic mistake which cost him his career. Not saying that he wouldn't have been right (who knows; not my can or worms), but the lack of concrete evidence is what killed him.

Jesus I wish I was at home to help you with that... But the weapons of mass destruction should have been dealt with a long time ago. Try to find a documentary from a director that did the movie "trading places with Dan Ackroyd and Eddie Murphy" Its called "The truth about the Iraq war." Watch this and then look at when it was made... I promise you there are a lot of credentials in that one. Inarguable, that alone is not underground material and should be easy to find. That will set you on track for wmd's. I would say more than concrete. Indictable? LMAO!!

Its not bush, it's a group called the illuminati, and his henchmen.

I thought it was Skull and Bones?

Quote: tomder55 agrees: I did not know we exported our tin-foil hats to Canada.

Did you know that your administration has been making back door deals with our government about that war, and just about 5 and a half months ago George Bush and Stephen Harper {my idiot PM} made a silly deal, it started in 2005 and then early o7 they really brought it up. Canada oil sands to help meet Bush Mideast oil cut
Quote" UofA : George Bush could get closer to his goal of cutting U.S. dependence on Middle East crude but it won't be his futuristic plan to run cars on fuel made from wood chips or hydrogen that will do the trick.
It's Canada.?Bush laid out a plan in his State of the Union speech earlier this week to slash crude imports from the Middle East 75 percent by 2025, replacing the oil with alternative fuels at home.??
But yet-to-be released numbers from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the analytical arm of the Department of Energy, show that crude from Canada's Alberta oil sands will help cut U.S. Mideast oil dependence by half in two decades.??
When Bush called for the cut in his speech he was targeting the current forecast of 6 million barrels per day of Mideast oil in 2025, hoping to cut it down to around 1.5 million barrels a day.??
New estimates the EIA plans to release later this month predict America's Mideast imports will be 3 million barrels a day in two decades, an EIA official told Reuters.??
The new data will show U.S. oil imports from Canada surging to 2.7 million barrels a day in 2025 from 1.6 million barrels currently. About three out of four of those barrels will be from Alberta's oil sands, where record oil prices have created a boom in investment.??

There is debate within the agency on whether the United States could take all of Canada's oil sands production, which the EIA estimates will be 3.2 million barrels a day in two decades.??

"If (the United States) receives it all, which we don't have in our forecast, it could reduce even more our dependence on the Middle East" oil supply, the EIA official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.?




About 95 percent of Canada's estimated 179 billion barrels of proven oil reserves are oil sands deposits in Alberta, according to the EIA.??
Now over the next five years we are expected to multiply our oil sand production 5 TIMES what it is now, 60% of Canada's emissions come from our oil sand production as of now. imagine how long this will go on? There will be a day when we say screw you! Your gov has screwed us out of our soft lumber and bought only our hard wood for so long. You have been taking our energy for nothing and raising all of our prices, "sun-cor California debt". And our fuel will eventually not be so cheap. So thank-you for the tin foil hats at least it's something. When your country decides to elect a war on Canada for our oil... Keep your eyes peeled for a tinfoil hat wearing guy strapped to a bomb.

You clearly have missed or failed to acknowledge my point again, so I may have to respectfully and humbly bow out of this one.

Yea, I have seen the video. I try to do my research despite what you may think. Unfortunately, if I am trying to find the bipartisan truth about something, moveon.org is NOT the place to go. Yes, the movie has high ranking officials speaking out, but in my opinion, it is a moot point. Nobody believes Bush and the current govt officials. Why should anybody be inclined to believe a handfull of former officials?

I am truly interested in the truth. Believe it or not, I am still in the middle on this one.
So far, I am convinced that taking out Saddam was a good thing.
I believe that the majority of the Iraqis are grateful for this despite what the media portrays.
I love the troops and support them 100%.
I think Rosie is a loose cannon and shouldn't even be considered a reliable source of information (on almost anything).
I feel that people should support the troops 100% despite what their reservations about the war or this administration may be.
I feel that protesting the war on Memorial Day is nothing more than a swift kick in the crotch to the families of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice (one of my best friends lost his life in Iraq), and those that are currently serving in the military. Any other day is fine. Yea, I know. Freedom of speech, but for cryin' out loud people; HAVE SOME COMPASSION.
These are not facts. These are my opinions.

I am not convinced, however, that we went about the war the right way or at the right time. Despite my service in the Marines, and my tour in Iraq, I am trying to look at this as objectively as possible. I clearly won't find the truth on the news. I'm not going to find it by watching a moveon.org movie or by going to a Hannity freedom concert. Clearly each of these avenues has an agenda, and that only pollutes the information and hinders someone's chances of finding the real truth.

You are welcome to PM me. I am never afraid to debate something.

Autta - You are a fine young man. So proud of you. So very proud.


There is something very disturbing about his last line of his post and personally, I would rethink welcoming a PM.

As I said I am not at home, I am lacking recsources and appoligized for that. There is a guy named Alex Jones. He has a web site... Find it, go through all of it. Take his links and have at er! He has all the answers you are looking for and more. You are not looking for a debate nor do you welcome one. You will surely avoid the truth and claim to have read up. Sorry you lost my respect. ALEX JONES

1) Can someone explain to me what a tin foil hat is. I have no clue. Thank you.
2) Greg, May I ask what you are thinking when you dare to disresepct one of our servicemen, past or present. Greg, how dare you. I know he does not need me defending him, surely, but it is a high insult to him as well as all service personnel and our entire country when you show such disrespect. Think I am exaggerting, I am not.

You do not have to agree with him, but I would hope you would have enough self respect to know enough to show one of ours the upmost of respect.

How dare you talk to one of ours that way. You do not have that right whatsover. None.
I would never ever speak to one of your military that way ever. I have met several Canadaian military personnel and they were some of the finest and resepctable men I had the pleasure of knowing. I also gave them the highest respect, I ask you do the same of our American military.

Shame on you.

*This Is A Thread Closure Warning*
Get back to the original point and avoid making disparaging personal remarks or it will be closed.

Autta:
Good question?

Iraq for oil would make sense in a capitalistic sense [ as opposed to going to Darfur or Rwanda ] but if I were to go to Iraq solely for that reason I would have annexed there oil fields already, which the US to my knowledge has not done. Again I don't think anyone has official notarized government documents to prove this -otherwise it would have been exposed, or least shredded and burned.
I don't think the Democrats are pursuing this because they are the party blocking further US oil exploration, extraction etc. e.g.. Anwr. They would be an indirect cause of going to war with Iraq for oil.


As to wmds - not only has there been US but also Russian intelligence regarding this.
Saddam has used chemical weapons in the past - ask the Kurds. It is like the wind - you can feel it and see its effects but you can't prove it by videotape [ unless it were a tornado ].


Grace and Peace

I got to page 3 of this thread and I want to just respond to the original post.

I, as an American, support every soilder in the United States of America Military. I think it takes courage and bravery to do what you do.
I think our military - worldwide - keeps us safe. I think because of our military we are provided with certain liberties. I applaud the soldiers fighting for our country.

As for the war, I wish it would end. I wish every soilder could come home.
I do not support the war anymore because the longer it goes on - the more apparent it seems to be for no reason. I do not want another one of our soldiers dying.
Saying that though does not mean I do not support you, the soilder.

Thank you for your service and come home soon.

Attn: Start over 22:I saw your comment on the watching the documentary the truth about the war in Iraq, this is a documentary that has been straight to the point from the get go. It says that the government has lied about weapons of mass destruction. This documentary was made by a famous film maker... If the gentleman I had been in discussion with on that subject says that he has seen this film, and still believes it is possible for a second that his government never lied. He clearly never watched this movie. I have read your posts and advice and have seen that you are calm and reasonable. I am a little more of a hot head when people lie to me. This gentleman and I had private messaged a few times. He asks questions... But won't believe numbers and facts that have been presented, even with reference. This film simply proved it self to be right, it presented government based facts and proof through out, and could never ever be taken in any other way having watched it. I know that there are movies that you could walk away and debate over the point of facts... This is and was not that movie. If a person were to disagree with this they would have to either 1: NOT have watched this documentary, or 2: Will not accept facts in order to protect their image of something they want to believe in. Either way, I feel that I have been duped into explaining and having a discussion with a brick wall that asks questions but will object to any answer.

[/QUOTE] Auttajasi:

(though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.

I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely. /UnQuote.

I am now done on this subject. You should all look into what is going on in your country. From your Vote counting machines, Who owns them? Who is Bushes biggest contributor? These issues are linked.
I have my archives here and am going to give you some available underground Dvds.

Loose change-

Confronting the evidence:9-11

Loose change 2 louder than words-

Alex Jones police state 1 2&3

Alex Jones Martial Law-

Alex Jones American Dictators- This one is really good.

Alex Jones Terror storm -

And of course :The truth about the Iraq war-

These are just a few of the ones I have, please look into this... My friends think I am amazing for having found these things, but it was really my friend Corie. These videos are not for the week minded. Keep old people away. Old people do not want to hear this stuff, I don't blame them. THESE ARE AMERICAN VIDEOS! Made by great Americans.

Good luck. Greg Quinn

I supprot our efforts in Iraq, and world-wide. And anyone who likes to post messages on the web should, too. Without our governmetns attempts to keep the battle off our beaches, we couldn't sip our lattes and guffaw at world politics while keeping in touch on our Blackberries.

Our troops and their efforts are greatly, deeply, and dearly appreciated. Don't ever think otherwise!

americans love, respect and value our soldiers, (All of them.) I would like (and would) to kick the crap out of anyone who would spit on one.I am also sure that if that person Had not known that those soldiers would not do the same he would not have done that (like all cowards)

americans love, respect and value our soldiers, (All of them.) I would like (and would) to kick the crap out of anyone who would spit on one.I am also sure that if that person Had not known that those soldiers would not do the same he would not have done that (like all cowards)

Im not being anti troops here matt. If you read my posts you will see I respect the troops like most others.

But sure when you say you love "all of them" you don't mean the ones that rape and torture do you? Small minority I know, but it is something that has occurred none the less!

Attn: Start over 22:I saw your comment on the watching the documentary the truth about the war in Iraq, this is a documentary that has been straight to the point from the get go. It says that the government has lied about weapons of mass destruction. This documentary was made by a famous film maker...If the gentleman I had been in discussion with on that subject says that he has seen this film, and still believes it is possible for a second that his government never lied. He clearly never watched this movie. I have read your posts and advice and have seen that you are calm and reasonable. I am a little more of a hot head when people lie to me. This gentleman and I had private messaged a few times. He asks questions...But wont believe numbers and facts that have been presented, even with reference. This film simply proved it self to be right, it presented government based facts and proof through out, and could never ever be taken in any other way having watched it. I know that their are movies that you could walk away and debate over the point of facts...This is and was not that movie. If a person were to disagree with this they would have to either 1: NOT have watched this documentary, or 2: Will not accept facts in order to protect their image of something they want to believe in. Either way, I feel that I have been duped into explaining and having a discussion with a brick wall that asks questions but will object to any answer.

Auttajasi:
(though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.

I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely. /UnQuote.

I am now done on this subject. You should all look into what is going on in your country. From your Vote counting machines, Who owns them? Who is Bushes biggest contributor? These issues are linked.
I have my archives here and am going to give you some available underground Dvds.

Loose change-

Confronting the evidence:9-11

Loose change 2 louder than words-

Alex Jones police state 1 2&3

Alex Jones Martial Law-

Alex Jones American Dictators- This one is really good.

Alex Jones Terror storm -

And of course :The truth about the Iraq war-

These are just a few of the ones I have, please look into this... My friends think I am amazing for having found these things, but it was really my friend Corie. These videos are not for the week minded. Keep old people away. Old people do not want to hear this stuff, I don't blame them. THESE ARE AMERICAN VIDEOS! Made by great Americans.

Good luck. Greg Quinn[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Art Bell And George Nori on the CoasttocoastAM Website. I'll bet Corie listens to them. Conspiracy Theories will drive you mad if you let them. Just trust in Divine Intervention. Alex Jones is a great guy and I am sure he means well but he believe our own Gov. hit the Twin Towers. He is a bit over board. Do you actually believe everything he proclaims?

I thought anything was better than CNN but have you ever watched Lou Dobbs? The guy is right on and he takes no prisoners. He was the first to report about the North American Union. Yesterday, he had some meat packers Union Business Agent on and picked his bones about hiring illegal aliens and the effect it has had on wages going from $19.00 per hour to $9.00 per hour. The idiot was speechless. What could he say? That is why the borders are open, so corporate America can drop our wages to slave pay.

Dobbs is OK. I like your Fact/Quote on Arnie, man he's a dirty bastar* if I ever saw one. He was my hero for so long growing up. It was such a shame to see so many things I never saw before. Now I see his wife Maria Schriver on Oprah and it bothers me.
Oh yeah... I know how that conspiracy stuff can get you out there, Corie is still in the rabbit hole and the Green pill is wearing off. Lol, I left this stuff for a while and stuck to Bill Maher. Now I come in here and this fraud soldier is faking knowledge. I hate that... Just wasted so much of my day on him. Whatever. I think God created evolution as well. LOL... Willie Nelson should be president.

I think you and I may have closed this bar down! MAGPROB? Lets go to the STD blogs and find us a few females. Lol TTyl

Im not being anti troops here matt. If you read my posts you will see i respect the troops like most others.

But sure when you say you love "all of them" you dont mean the ones that rape and torture do you? Small minority i know, but it is something that has occurred none the less!!


Yes well there are criminals in any group. I think you should know that no one cares for immoral solders anymore than they care for immoral people in general. You seem to attempt to take any chance you can to degrade anything American. Well let me tell you this, it is and will always be the greatest country on earth (so get over it.) When the day comes that whatever country you live in needs help (of any kind), I bet I can tell you who will be the first there... American soldiers.

How sad in a thread about a soldier the word "liar" would be even possible.

Got to tell you, that red box I wear proudly.

Staying on topic here...

I also like to add that most if not all of my post refer to the brave US troops, believe you me, the troops from around the world, who are our friends and stand right beside us through all of this madness, are in my heart and prayers as well. Bless all of them and may they all be coming home soon safe and sound.

Im not being anti troops here matt. If you read my posts you will see i respect the troops like most others.

But sure when you say you love "all of them" you dont mean the ones that rape and torture do you? Small minority i know, but it is something that has occurred none the less!!I see that you got a bunch of reddies for that one but I don't get their point. Here is the premise: we are supposed to dismiss the small minority of soldiers that rape, torture and kill civilians out of retaliation/frustration but we should not dismiss the small minority of people that alledgely spat on a soldier. Something seems wrong here. There are fringe people in every society. Just being a member of a certain group does not grant you instant respect, that is earned individually. Same holds true for priests, politicians, etc.

Sorry Skell, I didn't see you get a bunch of reddies for that. I will take a look at it after I am done here. I do see what your saying, here's my take on it:

Oh NK now way could I personally EVER dismiss the inhumans that would dare spit on a soldier. Disgusting on so many levels.

Now, as far as I am concern, those who put a uniform on and did those horrible things were not and are not soldiers. The are not considered a part nor member of that group. They are sick individuals and their actions should never distort the image of the fine upstanding soldier.

Same things goes for those who put on the priest collar and do those horrific things. Sorry, they are not priest and never ever were.

By Definition - A soldier is an honorable man or women who brave defends his or her country in a distinquised way. By that definition, for those who fall into that category, you bet, I love every one of them.

You guys will have a field day with this one - go on, go ahead :). It's just how I categorize it, it is my beliefs and what I feel truths. I am not saying they are right, but it is strongly what I believe. I would never ever let the sick ones who do those things take anything away from those that give so much.

Oh and I am sure that your country, will respond likewise for us.Its what good people do for each other. I nowhere in my post mentioned anything about criminals, being included, those "people" are later prosecuted by, yeah you guessed it other soldiers. I am just saying picking apart a post simply to imply your own opinions is obnoxious, and disrespectful of me and out troops. Our military has the highest code of ethics of any military organization in the history of the world.

Allheart, you said it girlie! I think the majority of us are behind you.

Yes well there are criminals in any group. I think you should know that no one cares for immoral solders anymore than they care for immoral people in general. You seem to attempt to take any chance you can to degrade anything American. Well let me tell you this, it is and will always be the greatest country on earth (so get over it.) When the day comes that whatever country you live in needs help (of any kind), I bet I can tell you who will be the first there... American soldiers.

Once again I will say that this is utter BS! Complete and utter BS!!

I did not and have not degraded anything American. If you cared to read my posts, if you are even capable of understanding them correctly, you would see that I always state I am not anti American. I am not. I merely ask questions. As I did above.

I don't agree with many things your government does, just as I don't agree with many things my governenment does. So what do I do, I question them.

I don't shove my head in my butt and pretend things don't happen like you would.

I take offense to your post and to magprobs agreement with it.

For the record Mag, I am absolutely horrified at the ill treatment of Aborigines. And if you care to know I volunteer at a University and help aboriginal students with their classes. It appalls me even more to hear some of the stories they have to tell me.

Unlike you and matt rather than just sit and whine about it on an internet site I get up and do something about it! I help the people that I see in need and that we as a country have mistreated. Don't get me started on American Indians and the hate portrayed by your population.

Matt, all I asked was that you can't say you support all American troops. Just like you can't say all Muslims are terrorists.

Please read Karma post above for what I'm getting at!!

And refrain from making unfounded allegations about what I supposedly think of your country. ]

And the best country in the world tag has already been taken buddy. You can have No. 2!! :)

Oh and I am sure that your country, will respond likewise for us.Its what good people do for each other. I nowhere in my post mentioned anything about criminals, being included, those "people" are later prosecuted by, yeah you guessed it other soldiers. I am just saying picking apart a post simply to imply your own opinions is obnoxious, and disrespectful of me and out troops. Our military has the highest code of ethics of any millitary orginization in the history of the world.

I did not pick apart your post. I agreed with it.

I merely aksed a question. Questions are there to be asked.

You immediately went on the defensive. Why? I never disrespected anyone. Who was I obnoxious. Your making more unfounded claims against me. Complete BS. Prove to me my obnoxiousness. Prove my disrespect.

Asking questions are not disrespectful Matt!!

How do you know your military has the highest code of ethics of any in the world. Again, please prove it to me.

There is nothing wrong of being proud of your country, heck, I'm the proudest aussie you will meet. But it doesn't mean I can't see fault. It is something you seem to have a great problem doing.

You have deeply offended me with your comments on this post matt.

Comments on this post
magprob agrees: That is the truth. We all have skeletons in our closets. Aboriginal people were not treated real well.

Care to explain to me your point mag??

We do all have skeletons in our closet. I don't have a problem opening the closet unlike some of you seem to!

I love opening my closet, it shows dignity and respect for others to be humble!

Things are still smoking in here.

Yes, where have you been? Out and about at some other site?

Anyone who can sit comfotably, in their respective homes, and not think: "gee, no RPG's here today" doesn't deserve that comfort. I'm not saying don't have an opinion. But if you don't mow outside the fence, too, you'll lose the fence. I'd rather have the fight in Tikrit than Tallahassee.

So Matt,

Rather than address my quite legitimate questions you choose to send me a private message reading;


TITLE: stupid piss ant
MESSAGE: you are a stupid pissant

Very mature of you matt. Thank you. Believe it or not it isn't the first time I've been called a piss ant. I think I was once called it before by another silly little boy. He was about 14 or 15 I think.

3684




Waaa!! Waa!! go home and cry to your momma. BTW you would be speaking Japanese right now if it wernt for the awfull American Soldiers. I based that on the dozens of anti-american post you have posted.

Can you show me them please matt? Baseless accusations.

When have I posted anti american posts? Your still yet to show me!

Your turning into an ugly American matt. I will bow out now before you embarrass yourself further!!

To late Skell, Bush just announced that we will be attacking Australia first thing in the morning. You really screwed up dude!

To late Skell, Bush just announced that we will be attacking Austrailia first thing in the morning. You really screwed up dude!

LOL! That's all right, you guys can't even beat a bunch of poor, broke Iraqis who's only weapons are sticks and stones.

What hope have you got against boxing kangaroos and people like us who wrestle croc's for fun?

Youse will screw it up as usual! ;)

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:
Gentlemen, I think were getting away from the question being do we have the same belief as Rosie ODonnell. Do we think negative about the service men and women. Because of the crap she's dishing out. We all have a right to our opinion but I believe the sgt. Was asking about us supporting the soldiers as he said. 2 soldiers were spit on in the airport. Regardless of our opinion of os being over their or the war, I think we support the soldiers over their. I know I did when my father was in veitnam and my husband in Iraq twice. Both wars will be a sore spot to everyone. And heart ache to those who died for our country and the same for the allies who have served and died.
I'm not trying to butt in but to put our eye on the ball again. Thank you and God Bless

Hummm, a piss ant wrestling a croc. Now that shoud be amusing. Reminds me of the time I saw a piss ant eat a bale of hay. Took him all day.
Why don't you guys just chill out.

This Thread is Now CLOSED !

Wow, america is the greatest country and will always be eh? WRONG! How many world powers have there been, lets see, Great Britain and Roman empire to name a few. Your just another fool that thinks everything his country does is rite.