Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?

I am not sure why this is posted under Christianity, since Christianity deals with earth and the relationship of people on this planet and their relationship to Christ.

The bible does not address any other planet except for the new earth to be created after this planet is destroyed.

so from a christian, does not matter, if there is, there is, if not, nope.
And we can not determine if there are sinners or not, if Adam had not sinned there would not have been sin on this planet.

I am not sure why this is posted under Christianity, since Christianity deals with earth and the relationship of people on this planet and thier relationship to Christ.

The bible does not address any other planet except for the new earth to be created after this planet is destroyed.

so from a christian, does not matter, if there is, there is, if not, nope.
And we can not determine if there are sinners or not, if Adam had not sinned there would not have been sin on this planet.

I will attempt to enlighten you as to the reason I posted this question here. The reason I posted here was because I was thinking that Christians probably would be the most knowledgeable about the subject. However, if I was wrong and, in your opinion, I shouldn't have posted here, please forgive me. Now if you would be so kind as to point this poor ignorant soul in the right direction to a forum where this question would be more appropriate, I would be most grateful.

In my opinion, it is a perfectly relevant question to Christianity.
Not relevant to you eternal salvation, but relevant for curiosity's sake none-the-less.

Sin is inherent to humans. So when you are talking about other "beings" are you referring to humans or beings in a general sense?
With the information that we have from the Bible, your question cannot be answered with any degree of certainty. We can surmise though. In my opinion, the universe is a pretty big place for just one lonely planet. I personally believe that there are other planets with humans doing pretty much the same things that we are; trying to become more like God, our Heavenly Father. I don't dwell on it though. I try not to make guesses as to the nature of God's plan. Fascinating to think about though.

[QUOTE=Auttajasi]In my opinion, it is a perfectly relevant question to Christianity.
Not relevant to you eternal salvation, but relevant for curiosity's sake none-the-less.

Sin is inherent to humans. So when you are talking about other "beings" are you referring to humans or beings in a general sense?

First let me thank you for not making me feel like my question was out of place here, as Chuck did. I would imagine that God could create beings other than human, maybe in His likeness, or maybe not. I would like other Christians views on the subject.

No problem. Care to enlighten me with what you believe regarding your posted question?

Only god is without sin. So, if there were other beings, they would be sinners too, because only god has the perfection of no sin, so if there were other intelligent species somewhere, I hope they've found god too, for their own sake.
Funnily enough, I used to toy with the idea of god being an alien, like two years ago, but that's a silly theory, because he created us in his own image.

only god is without sin. so, if there were other beings, they would be sinners too, coz only god has the perfection of no sin, so if there were other intelligent species somewhere, i hope theyve found god too, for their own sake.
funnily enough, i used to toy with the idea of god being an alien, like two years ago, but thats a silly theory, coz he created us in his own image.


The angels were created sinless and those who have remained faithful to God, two-thirds of them, remain sinless.

Also, if there are other material intelligent creatures who were created sinless as mankind was, it doesn't necessarily follow that they have fallen into sin via disobedience as we have. In fact, wouldn't it be ironic if we were the only ones who have?

Also, if there are other material intelligent creatures who were created sinless as mankind was, it doesn't necessarily follow that they have fallen into sin via disobedience as we have. In fact, wouldn't it be ironic if we were the only ones who have?


Haha wed be literally one of the most evil races in existence then

Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?

I think the Creator has populated many worlds with life, but I doubt if they are christians.

I think the Creator has populated many worlds with life, but I doubt if they are christians.

Why wouldn't they be? Wouldn't god want everyone to be with him? He cares about everyone.
Well, I guess not christians, because christ was on earth...

haha wed be literally one of the most evil races in existence then

It would be a very humbling experience to find out that we are since we tend to consider ourselves the epitome of God's material creation. In fact, our disobedience might seem incomprehensible from their standpoint--totally illogical perhaps and instead of us having to teach them they might have a great deal to teach us in terms of being obedient to our heavenly Father.

If they are imperfect like us, they mite even declare a crusade for all we know

Let's say that there are other human populated planets out there. Let's say, for argument's sake, that they are God's children, and Jesus is their Savior (he died for everyone's sins right?). If this is true, then we may very well be the most evil of all of God's children because WE crucified Jesus Christ. What if it was predestined that Jesus was born on THIS earth so he WOULD be crucified, thus dying for our sins and completing his atonement?

Is it possible that Jesus was referring to these other people in John 10:16?

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Or is He just referring to other people on OUR planet?

Interesting! Maybe there are other people out there, which we will one day meet in gods place

if they are imperfect like us, they mite even declare a crusade for all we know



Declaration is one thing. Being able to carry it out is another. God doesn't take kindlly to interference in his plans for our Earth and mankind. The disobedient angels who are far more powerful than any material alien tried during Noah's day and were soundly defeated.



Satan and the Fallen Angels Frames (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKwCyE9GlCwBCiBrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=11vbr8230/EXP=1179720066/**http%3a//www.bibletoday.com/archive/satan.htm)

Excerpt

In Genesis, the sixth chapter, we read of the conditions of that time. "And it came to pass, when men (humans) began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the Sons of God (angels--Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Note: they are different from the men of verses 1 and 2) saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose." (Genesis 6:1,2) Here we learn that during the time from the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, until Noah's flood, some of the angels materialized fleshly human bodies and became fully involved with mankind. They became enticed with sin, and sinful desires.

"There were giants (Hebrew: Nephilim) in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the Sons of God (angels) came unto the daughters of men (humans) and they bare children to them (a hybrid, mutant race, part human, part angelic) the mutant offspring were giants, physically and mentally superior to humans, yet they were brutish, sensual, violent and immoral, and they were all males. It is likely that the various mythological figures of some ancient cultures are distorted stories of these very Nephilim, and the condition of society prior to the great deluge,which destroyed them all.

They did? Can u tell me where in the bible this is?

There are several ways to understand the scripture referring to other sheep that are to be brought into the same fold. One is that it referred to the Gentiles which were to be brought into the Christian fold along with the children of Israel and that this unification began with Peter's preaching to the Roman centurion Cornelius.

Another interpretation is that this other sheep are those who have a different reward from the heavenly one. They are said to be the ones who will dwell on a paradise Earth instead of living forever in heaven.

Then there is the interpretation above which seems to indicate applicability to creatures and humans of other worlds.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice was specifically given for Adam's descendants. Nowhere is provision made for his sacrifice to be extended to intelligent aliens or even humans who might live on other worlds since they are not of Adamic stock and Jesus' sacrifice is specifically said to apply only to those who inherited Adam's sinful nature.

In Adam All Died, In Christ Shall All Be Made Alive (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKSGy09GQDkB6D1rCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=12bbbp62t/EXP=1179720966/**http%3a//www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-InAdamAllDied.html)

"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12)

This is not to say that those who might sin on such hypothetical world have no way out if they have sinned. This is only to say that if they have sinned then another sacrifice specific to them has to be provided.

they did? can u tell me where in the bible this is?

What the Bible account describes below is the attempt by Satan and other rebel angels to genetically contaminate mankind via interbreeding. In that way they felt that the chance for the Christ to be born would be made more difficult. The giants mentioned were the halfbreeds. Half angel half human offspring of this unnatural union.


Genesis 6: 1-8 Original KJV:
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

So I take it that you believe there are christians out there?

So I take it that you believe there are christians out there?


I believe that if there are intelligent creatures out there made in God's image they will have to accept Jesus as universal ruler in order to gain eternal life. In other words he need not have died for their sins in order for them to owe him allegiance.

Colossians 1:15-18: By Jesus Were All Things Created
“The firstborn of every creature: for by (Jesus) were all things created that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

I think this is a very christian question. Or there are two questions, are other planets populated and did god populate them. I understand that the majority on this site are Chritian but is it not a question dependent on your beliefs? I believe that other planets are populated because I feel its very unlikely thet out of all the planets ours is the only one with life! (I'm not atheist by the way :) )

Here is an article recently published that sheds a lot of light on our question from a scientific point of view.

Planet-hunters find bonanza of new solar systems - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/29/space.exoplanets.reut/index.html)

For those that just want the highlights:

• 28 new planets found outside our solar system in the past year
• Scientists: There could be billions of habitable planets out there
• Four of the solar systems have multiple planets
• "Our home is not a rarity in the universe" says astronomer Geoffrey Marcy

Scientists estimate that 10% of the 200 billion starts in our galaxy have planets that are habitable. With hundreds of billions of galaxies out there, scientists estimate that there are billions of habitable planets in the universe

Here are a few key points about life on other planets and Christianity...

Only God is without sin

God sent is ONE AND ONLY begotten Son to die for our sins (here on Earth)

The Bible says that man is do die once (and only once)

So if there is life on other planets, they have not, and cannot, be saved. God only had one Son. And He already died for OUR sins.

Do you think they could be christians if the had antenae, 6 arms, and wings and flew in space craft that would put ours to shame?? Do you think they know of our God?? Would you try to convert them if they didn't, or would they be heathens?

just remember, the first sinner wasn't adam and eve. It was the devil who introduced sin to the human race, so we didn't invent sin. For all we know, if we met aliens, for all we know we could corrupt them with our sin, if they aren't already afflicted with it.

Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?_|__|_The Bible makes no mention of beings on other planets. However, I don't think there is a man alive who could unequivocally say NO. Sin befell this world as a result of the sin committed by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Only Adam and his progeny carry the curse of sin (transgression of the Law of God). That being the case, people on other planets (if there were people on other planets) would not be charged with sin unless one of two factors were present. 1) If people on other planets were somehow related to Adam or 2) If God gave those on the other planets His same Law and they willingly and knowingly broke His commandments in the same manner that Adam and Eve did.

I wouldn't want to be the one to call a bug eyed monster a sinner.

Sin is inherent to humans. So when you are talking about other "beings" are you referring to humans or beings in a general sense?.

Human beings of the family of Adam. Lions and tigers don't sin. Bacterium don't sin. They just do what they are programmed genetically to do. Adam has the ability to create, play music, paint pictures, etc. However, Adam man disobeyed a direct command and, thus, transgressed God's Law. The definition of sin is the transgression of the Law. What's important isn't whether other beings are sinners or not but that Adam and his posterity are sinners and that, through faith in Jesus Christ, we have a pathway out of the consequences of sin which is death. Through faith and belief in Jesus Christ, we can have everlasting life in the Kingdom of our Father which is in Heaven.

I wouldn't want to be the one to call a bug eyed monster a sinner.

I think it would be kind of fun to call a bug-eyed monster a sinner (if he was a slow runner that is).

• 28 new planets found outside our solar system in the past year
• Scientists: There could be billions of habitable planets out there
• Four of the solar systems have multiple planets
• "Our home is not a rarity in the universe" says astronomer Geoffrey Marcy

Interesting but not pertinent from a Christian perspective. That's not to say that since I am a Christian that I'm not interested in science. God is the author of all knowledge but knowledge of other solar systems won't save a person's soul. Faith and belief in and obedience to Jesus Christ is all the really matters.

only god is without sin. so, if there were other beings, they would be sinners too, coz only god has the perfection of no sin, so if there were other intelligent species somewhere, i hope theyve found god too, for their own sake.
funnily enough, i used to toy with the idea of god being an alien, like two years ago, but thats a silly theory, coz he created us in his own image.

I can't fully agree with you. Yes, God is sinless because God is perfect. However, sin is the transgression of the Law. A wolf cannot transgress the Law; therefore, a wolf is not a sinner. Also, just because a being is imperfect doesn't necessarily mean that it is a sinner. Imperfection and sin are not perfect synonyms. "Sin" literally means "the transgression of the Law." I kind of understood your point though, so no worries.

I think the Creator has populated many worlds with life, but I doubt if they are christians.

Interesting. The Creator is God. God has a triune nature i.e. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. God the Son is Jesus Christ. If God created other beings on other planets and those beings were aware that they were the "created" and that God was the "Creator," then they, like us, would love and worship Him in His complete nature. Therefore, they would be Christians.

why wouldnt they be? wouldnt god want everyone to be with him? he cares about everyone.
well, i guess not christians, coz christ was on earth.......

Christ transcended time and space and there's no reason to believe that He could not have visited other planets. However, it is really pointless to ponder that which is unnecessary to ponder. I shall move to another thread. Enjoy.

Therefore, they would be Christians.
Being Christianity is a man made institution, I think it unlikely that you'l find it elsewhere in the universe. Not until they let Christians on space ships, that is.

The human population on our planet has increased tremendously over the last 200 years. So much so, that only 40 years ago, we had less than half the people on the planet than we have here today. Each second, we are adding almost three people to the earth. In other words, we are increasing our population by 170 people per minute, 10,000 per hour, and an astounding 240,000 per day. In October of 1999, we broke the 6,000,000,000 humans barrier. Is there life on another planet? Only God knows.

Jeff

Being Christianity is a man made institution, I think it unlikely that you'l find it elsewhere in the universe. Not until they let Christians on space ships, that is.

Since Christianity is a belief system based on information that God gave to man and since Chrstianity is system of belief based on obedience to God and since God, Himself, in the body of the Man, Jesus Christ (Christ = 100% God & 100% man) preached the gospel and drew men into that belief system, then one can only conclude that Christianity is a God made institution. By the way, I think it highly unlikely that you will find atheists on other planets.

then one can only conclude that Christianity is a God made institution.
The only ones who conclude that, are other Christians, and even under the best circumstances the non-christians who do outnumber christians are just as fervent in there own belief being god sent, which is what any human would say about whatever they believe. I present the possibility of finding atheist among other planets, before you'd find christians, just as a matter of course.

I'd just like to correct some of the terminology being used in this thread. "Other solar systems" makes no sense. It's called the solar system because it's the planetary system around Sol, our sun.

I'm not sure I agree with you talaniman on the atheism on other planets front, if there is a greater being, surely other intelligent beings would have a similar inkling that we seem to have about what created the world.

Of course, if you're saying that God is a human construct, then it's a product of the way our minds have evolved that makes us susceptable to religious thinking, and other beings may not have that kind of wiring.

I think intelligent life on other planets is almost certain given the statistics of the situation and what we have observed so far.

"Just think, if there was intelligent life on another planet, and they look at us, and see the dog in front of us and WE are picking up THEIR crap, the dogs are going to look like the dominant species"
-Jerry Seinfeld

1)The only ones who conclude that, are other Christians,
2) the non-christians who do outnumber christians
3) just as fervent in there own belief being god sent,
4)I present the possibility of finding athiest among other planets, before you'd find christians,

1) You are probably correct.
2) Ants outnumber elephants. What's your point?
3) Depends on your belief. If you are an atheist, I doubt that you believe that your belief is God sent since you wouldn't believe in God.
4) That comment is purely inane.

2) more people believe that Christianity is not god sent
3)they may believe in the sun as their deity or rocks or whatever, the point is they could believe in anything
4)the probability of finding unbelievers in god is greater than finding Christians on another planet.

My whole point is that no belief system is any better or worse than another, its all in perspective, so as man meets others from other worlds, who are different in thinking, belief, or way of life, he must be tolerant, and not offend, or the bug eyed aliens may get mad, and destroy him, because they indeed can run faster with 6 legs as he can with 2. TA-DAAAAH!!

Quote=Capuchin-I'd just like to correct some of the terminology being used in this thread. "Other solar systems" makes no sense. It's called the solar system because it's the planetary system around Sol, our sun.
There are many suns in the universe with planets that revolve around them, They said so on Star Trek.
I'm not sure I agree with you talaniman on the atheism on other planets front, if there is a greater being, surely other intelligent beings would have a similar inkling that we seem to have about what created the world.
What if they are way smarter and know how the universe was created? I can only assume that, but if they can zoom all over the place in their saucers, they know a lot more than we do.
Of course, if you're saying that God is a human construct, then it's a product of the way our minds have evolved that makes us susceptable to religious thinking, and other beings may not have that kind of wiring.
I agree we are bound on this planet, and thats all we can come up with to explain what we see, hear, and feel.
I think intelligent life on other planets is almost certain given the statistics of the situation and what we have observed so far.
Me too!! ;)

[QUOTE=talaniman]1) more people believe that Christianity is not god sent
2)My whole point is that no belief system is any better or worse than another,QUOTE]

1)In a place called Jonestown, somewhere in South America, more people believed in Jim Jones than disbelieved him. As a result, the majority of the members of his group committed suicide. You could have 100 blind people standing at the top of a cliff. A smooth talking individual could convince 75 of them that by walking straight ahead 100 paces that they would be able to see again. The 75 walk straight ahead and fall off the cliff to their deaths. The point is that just because a majority of individuals believe a certain way doesn't mean that it is the correct belief.
2) There is only one truth. You could have a tall pine tree standing on top of a hill. One group of people could believe with all their heart that it is an oak tree. Another group could say, no, it's a poplar tree. Another could believe that it's poisen ivy and the last group would believe that it's a pine tree. You have 4 different belief systems. The members of all four groups are really nice people who smile a lot. Which group is correct? Since the tree is a pine tree, then ONLY the group who believes it's a pine tree is correct. Therefore, the "better" system of belief is the correct system of belief for truth is better than a lie.

There are many suns in the universe with planets that revolve around them, They said so on Star Trek.

You're missing my point here, our sun is called Sol, that's why we're in the solar system. There are no other solar systems because the other stars aren't called Sol...

Quote=ActionJackson[quote=talaniman]1) more people believe that Christianity is not god sent
2)My whole point is that no belief system is any better or worse than another,QUOTE]

1)In a place called Jonestown, somewhere in South America, more people believed in Jim Jones than disbelieved him. As a result, the majority of the members of his group committed suicide. You could have 100 blind people standing at the top of a cliff. A smooth talking individual could convince 75 of them that by walking straight ahead 100 paces that they would be able to see again. The 75 walk straight ahead and fall off the cliff to their deaths. The point is that just because a majority of individuals believe a certain way doesn't mean that it is the correct belief.
Agreed. lambs can be led to slaughter because they know no better. Should we believe anything on the say so of ones who make claim to know whats best? Or should we responsible for our own action. (Some had to be forced at Jonestown, at gunpoint)
2) There is only one truth.
But many ways to see it, as in the tale of the blind men and their encounter with an elephant for the first time. They were all correct but only partly so, because they were only touching parts of him. A lesson in perspective.
You could have a tall pine tree standing on top of a hill. One group of people could believe with all their heart that it is an oak tree. Another group could say, no, it's a poplar tree. Another could believe that it's poisen ivy and the last group would believe that it's a pine tree. You have 4 different belief systems. The members of all four groups are really nice people who smile a lot. Which group is correct? Since the tree is a pine tree, then ONLY the group who believes it's a pine tree is correct. Therefore, the "better" system of belief is the correct system of belief for truth is better than a lie.
I don't know about this argument at all as I would just be happy to know its a tree, as to what kind, is subjective to a lot more investigation to me. In other words the burden would be on you to show why it is not poison ivy, or a poplar tree.

You're missing my point here, our sun is called Sol, that's why we're in the solar system. There are no other solar systems because the other stars aren't called Sol...
Your right as the systems are referred to by the name or designated number of the star. I stand corrected.

talaniman "should we responsible for our own action."B]
Action You're kind of missing the point. The point is: just because a majority of individuals believe something doesn't make it so. A majority of people can believe that a man who died in his basement died as a result of breathing fumes when, in reality, he died of black mold spores. The truth was hidden from view but it was no less true and the majority belief didn't make it less true. Yes, we should all be responsible for our own actions.

Action "There is only one truth."
talaniman But many ways to see it, as in the tale of the blind men and their encounter with an elephant for the first time. They were all correct but only partly so, because they were only touching parts of him. A lesson in perspective.
Action However, the elephant was still an elephant. If we equate the elephant to the God of Christianity, Jesus Christ, then your analogy suggests that different people come to Jesus Christ via viewing Christ from different perspectives i.e. Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. In a similar sense, the pine tree would still be a pine tree whether you looked at it at sunrise, sunset, from the north or from the east from near or from far. No matter what the perspective, it would still be a pine tree.

talanimanI don't know about this argument at all as I would just be happy to know its a tree, as to what kind, is subjective to a lot more investigation to me. In other words the burden would be on you to show why it is not poison ivy, or a poplar tree.[/QUOTE]
Action. That wouldn't be too difficult. I would simply show you what poison ivy looked like, what a poplar tree looked like, and what a pine tree looked like. If you still chose not to recognize the pine tree on the hill as being a pine tree, then I would simply move on and seek someone with ability to recognize truth.

Quote=ActionJackson-talaniman "should we responsible for our own action."B]
Action You're kind of missing the point. The point is: just because a majority of individuals believe something doesn't make it so. A majority of people can believe that a man who died in his basement died as a result of breathing fumes when, in reality, he died of black mold spores. The truth was hidden from view but it was no less true and the majority belief didn't make it less true. Yes, we should all be responsible for our own actions.
And we should investigate to get the facts. And not assume because someone says so.
Action "There is only one truth."
talaniman But many ways to see it, as in the tale of the blind men and their encounter with an elephant for the first time. They were all correct but only partly so, because they were only touching parts of him. A lesson in perspective.
Action However, the elephant was still an elephant. If we equate the elephant to the God of Christianity, Jesus Christ, then your analogy suggests that different people come to Jesus Christ via viewing Christ from different perspectives i.e. Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. In a similar sense, the pine tree would still be a pine tree whether you looked at it at sunrise, sunset, from the north or from the east from near or from far. No matter what the perspective, it would still be a pine tree.
Why not equate the elephant to the muslim God or the Jewish God or the martian God, its stll God isn't it?? Its still a matter of perspective.
talanimanI don't know about this argument at all as I would just be happy to know its a tree, as to what kind, is subjective to a lot more investigation to me. In other words the burden would be on you to show why it is not poison ivy, or a poplar tree.[/quote]
Action. That wouldn't be too difficult. I would simply show you what poison ivy looked like, what a poplar tree looked like, and what a pine tree looked like. If you still chose not to recognize the pine tree on the hill as being a pine tree, then I would simply move on and seek someone with ability to recognize truth.
We agree a pine is a pine, and God Is God, that's our perspective, but would it be realistic to think an alien would understand our perspective, or we his????

Action You're kind of missing the point. The point is: just because a majority of individuals believe something doesn't make it so. A majority of people can believe that a man who died in his basement died as a result of breathing fumes when, in reality, he died of black mold spores. The truth was hidden from view but it was no less true and the majority belief didn't make it less true. Yes, we should all be responsible for our own actions.
And we should investigate to get the facts. And not assume because someone says so.
You're clearly arguing for the sake of arguing with no interest whatsoever in arriving at the truth. Once again, you completely miss the point by a mile. Your original post used the argument that sense non-Christians outnumber Christians that Christianity must somehow be incorrect. My argument is that just because a majority of individuals believe something doesn't mean that their collective belief is correct. If you can't agree with this simple and elementary conclusion then I am clearly wasting my precious time.

talaniman But many ways to see it, as in the tale of the blind men and their encounter with an elephant for the first time. They were all correct but only partly so, because they were only touching parts of him. A lesson in perspective.
Action However, the elephant was still an elephant. If we equate the elephant to the God of Christianity, Jesus Christ, then your analogy suggests that different people come to Jesus Christ via viewing Christ from different perspectives i.e. Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. In a similar sense, the pine tree would still be a pine tree whether you looked at it at sunrise, sunset, from the north or from the east from near or from far. No matter what the perspective, it would still be a pine tree.
Why not equate the elephant to the muslim God or the Jewish God or the martian God, its stll God isn't it?? Its still a matter of perspective.
Because we were discussing Christianity and the Christian God, Jesus Christ. Why would I even consider (as you routinely seem to do) changing the subject midstream? What's more, the Christian God is not the same as the Muslim god or the Jewish god. The list of guidlines (laws) that non-Christians believe that their gods have given them are contrary to the Laws that the Christian God has revealed to them. The Jewish god denies Jesus Christ (the Christian God) and the Muslin god believes that the Christian God (Jesus Christ) was just a prophet but no more than a mortal man. The Christian God (Jesus Christ) on the other hand, claims in Scripture that He is God. Major contradictions between the various religions; therefore, the gods/God of the various religions are not equal because they are contrary.

talanimanI don't know about this argument at all as I would just be happy to know its a tree, as to what kind, is subjective to a lot more investigation to me. In other words the burden would be on you to show why it is not poison ivy, or a poplar tree.[/quote]
Action. That wouldn't be too difficult. I would simply show you what poison ivy looked like, what a poplar tree looked like, and what a pine tree looked like. If you still chose not to recognize the pine tree on the hill as being a pine tree, then I would simply move on and seek someone with ability to recognize truth.
We agree a pine is a pine, and God Is God, that's our perspective, but would it be realistic to think an alien would understand our perspective, or we his????
It wouldn't matter what the alien's perspective would be since truth is truth whether we're on earth or on a distant planet. A pine tree on earth if uprooted and placed on another planet would still be a pine tree.

We agree a pine is a pine, and God Is God, that's our perspective, but would it be realistic to think an alien would understand our perspective, or we his????

It wouldn't matter what the alien's perspective would be since truth is truth whether we're on earth or on a distant planet. A pine tree on earth if uprooted and placed on another planet would still be a pine tree.

I'm agreeing with Talaniman here. What if they have exactly the same organism as a pine tree on their planet, they even call it a pine tree. But instead of what we do: leaving it to grow, then cutting it for fuel. The aliens use the trees to grow their young inside, as an incubator, until birth. For this reason, pine trees are sacred to these aliens.

Even though it's the same organism, our and their view on what a "tree" is is completely different. We're all "How on EARTH do you grow your young in a pine tree?" and they're like "How on OMICRON PERSEI VIII do you think it's okay to cut down a pine tree to use for fuel? And secondly how do you get any energy out of it?". They might as well be completely different.

You're clearly arguing for the sake of arguing with no interest whatsoever in arriving at the truth. Once again, you completely miss the point by a mile. Your original post used the argument that sense non-Christians outnumber Christians that Christianity must somehow be incorrect. My argument is that just because a majority of individuals believe something doesn't mean that their collective belief is correct. If you can't agree with this simple and elementary conclusion then I am clearly wasting my precious time.
Why are you mad because I don't believe your point of view and do not accept it as the only truth??? I am not a christian and my relationship with the Creator is a personal one, and has nothing to do with your beliefs. Your assertion that the majority is not always correct, I have agreed with that premise. I also assert that if the majority is wrong, that doesn't make the minority correct.
Because we were discussing Christianity and the Christian God, Jesus Christ. Why would I even consider (as you routinely seem to do) changing the subject midstream? What's more, the Christian God is not the same as the Muslim god or the Jewish god. The list of guidlines (laws) that non-Christians believe that their gods have given them are contrary to the Laws that the Christian God has revealed to them. The Jewish god denies Jesus Christ (the Christian God) and the Muslin god believes that the Christian God (Jesus Christ) was just a prophet but no more than a mortal man. The Christian God (Jesus Christ) on the other hand, claims in Scripture that He is God. Major contradictions between the various religions; therefore, the gods/God of the various religions are not equal because they are contrary.
There is only one God, so it logically follows that the names may change but God does not. whether on Earth, or Jupiter.

It wouldn't matter what the alien's perspective would be since truth is truth whether we're on earth or on a distant planet. A pine tree on earth if uprooted and placed on another planet would still be a pine tree.[/quote]
Seeing the aliens perspective, would help you understand him, so he doesn't just see you as his next meal. Your entitled to believe what you want, am I????........................................or do you see my perspective as unworthy, because it conflicts with YOUR truth???? Relax its only a debate.

I guess the only way that aliens on another planet could be Christian, is if Jesus is some sort of Inter-galactic astro-ambassador. :)

I'm agreeing with Talaniman here. What if they have exactly the same organism as a pine tree on their planet, they even call it a pine tree. But instead of what we do: leaving it to grow, then cutting it for fuel. The aliens use the trees to grow their young inside, as an incubator, until birth. For this reason, pine trees are sacred to these aliens.

Even though it's the same organism, our and their view on what a "tree" is is completely different. We're all "How on EARTH do you grow your young in a pine tree?" and they're like "How on OMICRON PERSEI VIII do you think it's okay to cut down a pine tree to use for fuel?? And secondly how do you get any energy out of it?". They might as well be completely different.

Heck, you don't have to go to another planet to have different perspectives concerning pine trees. You've heard the term "tree huggers" (they're people from other planets that came here to hug trees) and you also know that lumberjacks chop pines down all the day long. Two different perspectives but the pine tree remains a pine tree. If someone on a different planet raised their young in the pine tree, they might look much like the woodpeckers that we have on earth for all I know but the pine tree would still be a pine tree. Someone on Planet Amox I Auggeneva might eat pine with their eggs in the morning and drink distilled pine sap in the evening but it would still be a pine. Perspective doesn't change what something actually is. It might change how a person or "being" feels toward a thing but it doesn't change the thing.

I guess the only way that aliens on another planet could be Christian, is if Jesus is some sort of Inter-galactic astro-ambassador. :)

And you know for sure that He's not?

I didn't say he was or he wasn't..

It might change how a person or "being" feels toward a thing but it doesn't change the thing.

And you're saying that what we feel about something doesn't define what it is? I disagree.

And you're saying that what we feel about something doesn't define what it is? I disagree.

If you "feel" that a 1968 GTO is a goddess of love and I "feel" that it's a goddess of hate, it will still have the same 4 tires; the same paint job; the same engine; etc. It will still be a 1968 GTO. Your feelings nor my feelings are going to transform it into anything other than what it already is.

My argument is:

Our feelings are our only source of information.
People have different feelings.
Therefore: The information that different beings are using is different, the reality is different, the 1968 GTO is different.

Maybe how our feelings shape our reality aren't so different between you and I, Jackson, but surely you can see how someone blind from birth will have a very different view of the world. How do you explain the difference between red and green to someone with red-green colorblindness? How do you explain the difference between a baseball and a tennis ball to a sonar-dependant bat? How does a tetrachromat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromic) describe to you and I the extra colors that they see? How do synesthetes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia) describe the way that they see the world? How does an alien describe to you the difference between 2 identical (to you and I) 1968 GTOs, when one is obviously "farble", but the other is quite clearly "borble".

Reality is subjective, it's what we make it, things are different to each of us, because all we have to go on are our FEELINGS.

feelings are still important, how one feels towards another person, to you, that person can be the most important thing in this world, in this mortal existence, while to others, she could just be another random person. how you feel towards things is very important, because it drives you, affects every decision you make, hell, it can even affect who you are. Reality be dammed, all i know is what i see, hear, touch, etc. and feel. what something is is unimportant to me, in comparison to what it is to me.

Everyone on Earth has their own perspective, and if its like that on Earth, imagine the confusion as planets, get to the point they discover each other and begin to interact. Do you think we will see Martians all alike, or they see us as all alike?? If they miss the nuances that make us individuls, its possible we may do the same to them, ie; lumping all christians into the same mold? Or all muslims? What a slippery slope when you don't have all the facts or a complete picture.

Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?
To the 1st question (which I have seen before on here) Who knows? God only revealed to us what happened(happens) on this earth. However I believe the Bible about spirits(angels-good & bad) in the heavenlies. And God being the cause & effect of the outcome (or influence ) they have on us-especially through our own prayers.
Otherwise, I think there may only be primitive lifeforms on other galaxies or worlds. There are too many light years to reach us on earth- so only if they have some supersonic spacecraft do I think we will see them in our lifetime on earth.
The 2nd question's answer depends on the 1st. We know that God sent His Son to this earth as a man to die for all mankind's sins. So if there were to be other worlds in the universe with human habitation there, then their world would be like ours- with 2 kinds of sinners. Redeemed or not redeemed.

Supersonic is a bit slow don't you think? Even we can do supersonic (not that supersonic has any meaning in space) :)

Everyone on Earth has their own perspective, and if its like that on Earth, imagine the confusion as planets, get to the point they discover each other and begin to interact. Do you think we will see Martians all alike, or they see us as all alike????If they miss the nuances that make us individuls, its possible we may do the same to them, ie; lumping all christians into the same mold? Or all muslims? What a slippery slope when you don't have all the facts or a complete picture.

You got to have a point... please say you do because this post makes no sense whatsoever.

You got to have a point... please say you do because this post makes no sense whatsoever.
Open your mind to possibility. There is more truth than ancient mans perspective.

Jackson, surely sometime in your life, you haven't felt very happy, maybe even slightly depressed. Do you think it's true to say that while you're in that kind of mood, the colors of the world are dulled, everything seems closed in and everyone is looking at you.

And sometimes in your life, you just feel so happy, everytrhing is vibrant and colorful and you don't have a care in the world, and every leaf on that pinetree was made somehow from a tiny seed. The world is beautiful.

I certainly feel a difference in my reality when I have different moods. I can't imagine how different each species on this planet sees it.

Open your mind to possibility. There is more truth than ancient mans perspective.

Apparently, there's a whole lot more truth than modern man's perspective as well.

Jackson, surely sometime in your life, you haven't felt very happy, maybe even slightly depressed. Do you think it's true to say that while you're in that kind of mood, the colors of the world are dulled, everything seems closed in and everyone is looking at you. And sometimes in your life, you just feel so happy, everytrhing is vibrant and colorful and you dont have a care in the world, and every leaf on that pinetree was made somehow from a tiny seed. The world is beautiful. I certainly feel a difference in my reality when I have different moods. I can't imagine how different each species on this planet sees it.

The issue isn't "feelings." The issue is truth vs. fiction. Regardless of how you "feel" the truth doesn't change. I have three blue spruce trees outside my window. Very similar to pines only their needles are shorter and there is a bluish tint to the tree. When I'm feeling sad and bluish, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces. When I'm feeling happy and perky, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces. When I'm feeling angry and ferocious, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces; when I'm hungry and my stomach is growling, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces; when I'm feeling romantic and sexy, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces; when I'm feeling like Humpdy Dumpdy, my three little blue spruces are three little blue spruces.

You say you "can't imagine how different each species on this planet see it." With your imagination I'm sure you will come up with something.

My point is that our feelings are the only truth we know. I don't know how you can think that feelings don't come into it.

How do you know you are reading what I'm typing now? Your eyes sense some difference in the signal they are getting from that part of the retina from the signal they are getting from other parts of the retina, your brain interprets these differences accordingly, letting you see text on the screen. Your brain is affected by your feelings, your reality is what your eyes sense, modified by how your brain thinks it should be modified. Feelings do shape the world.

Would it be fair to say that when you're happy you love looking at your three blue spruce trees, but when you're depressed you couldn't give a about your little spruce trees. In each of these moods the spruce trees are completely different to you. The only things that we know about this world are things that our brains have processed. You're trying to separate the reality of the world from the interpretation of the mind, and you just can't do that.

Apparently, there's a whole lot more truth than modern man's perspective as well.
Finally we agree, and we will learn more as our knowledge expands through investigation, exploration, and discovery.

Finally we agree, and we will learn more as our knowledge expands thru investigation, exploration, and discovery.

Not if you have closed your mind to the possibility that Christianity is valid and true. Come on... open your mind to the possibilities, investigate, explore, and discover. Oh, I'm sorry, that only applies to non-Christian exploration, right?

Hmmmm... this seems to be common is a couple open threads right now lol

I hear what you are saying AJ... and I assure you that I am VERY open-minded to the possibility that Jesus was the Son of God. I was raised Christian and have explored this throughout my life.

AJ, Are YOU open-minded about the possibility that Christianity may not be valid and true??

Not if you have closed your mind to the possibility that Christianity is valid and true. Come on...open your mind to the possibilities, investigate, explore, and discover. Oh, I'm sorry, that only applies to non-Christian exploration, right?
Wrong! I have a great deal of respect for the wisdom, and way of life, and the teachings of Christ, and those who follow those teachings. Just because I am not a christian, doesn't mean I can't take the life lessons learned through exploration and my own personal investigation of christianity and other religions and apply them to my life. Because I choose my own path, doesn't mean I'm against yours, nor because we may disagree means there is malice or ill will. So relax and enjoy the debate.

Wrong!! As a matter of fact I have a great deal of respect for the wisdom, and way of life, and the teachings of Christ, and those who follow those teachings. Just because I am not a christian, doesn't mean I can't take the life lessons learned thru exploration and my own personal investigation of christianity and other religions and apply them to my life. Because I choose my own path, doesn't mean I'm against yours, nor because we may disagree means there is malice or ill will. So relax and enjoy the debate.

Trust me... I enjoy the debate. Most of those who disagree with me are probably pretty decent people. If we met in day to day life, we would probably greet each other with a hello... or maybe we wouldn't. I always try to be friendly with people I meet and they are usually friendly back. As I recall, Talaniman, you sort of jumped on me several threads ago and ridiculed some of my statements so don't be too quick to point the finger. (I know, you don't point the finger cause you would have 4 pointing back)

As for your "having respect for....the teachings of Christ" you have honestly shown very little respect. It hasn't been the way that you've treated me that has stirred my ire as much as the way you speak of the Saviour. Does your lack of respect keep me up at night? Not at all. Now thinking of fighting morning, freeway traffic... that sometimes keeps me up.

Sorry not aware of a lack of respect for Christ. I may jump on the dogma and tradition of man rather hard though.

Trust me...I enjoy the debate. Most of those who disagree with me are probably pretty decent people. If we met in day to day life, we would probably greet each other with a hello...or maybe we wouldn't. I always try to be friendly with people I meet and they are usually friendly back. As I recall, Talaniman, you sort of jumped on me several threads ago and ridiculed some of my statements so don't be too quick to point the finger. (I know, you don't point the finger cause you would have 4 pointing back)

As for your "having respect for....the teachings of Christ" you have honestly shown very little respect. It hasn't been the way that you've treated me that has stirred my ire as much as the way you speak of the Saviour. Does your lack of respect keep me up at night? Not at all. Now thinking of fighting morning, freeway traffic...that sometimes keeps me up.
Why do you say "pretty decent people" not agreeing with your teachings make them undecent? I do not understand this statement from a christian

Not if you have closed your mind to the possibility that Christianity is valid and true. Come on...open your mind to the possibilities, investigate, explore, and discover. Oh, I'm sorry, that only applies to non-Christian exploration, right?
You sound very angry. Maybe you need to remove yourself from here and pray. Blessings

ActionJackson disagrees: Not in the least! Once you find truth...there's no turning back.

Which is exactly why you will never get the word you preach through to others. Im sorry for you.

Sorry not aware of a lack of respect for Christ. I may jump on the dogma and tradition of man rather hard though.

Why not "get outside your box" and stop "jumping on the dogma" of Christianity.

Which is exactly why you will never get the word you preach thru to others. Im sorry for you.

I gave up a heavy drug and alcohol problem when I was 24. I was able to quit by turning to my last hope, Jesus Christ. He gave me the strength and the tools that I needed to give it up once and for all. I am 47 now. I have a diploma in Bible Law. I've attended numerous denominations to get a feel for the various teachings or slants on those teachings. I had a pretty sizeable prison ministry that lasted for several years. I have read the Bible in its entirety, twice, non-stop and I read some part of it every day. I've had several essays or studies published in Christian magazines that are sent worldwide. I have no idea if I have ever influenced anyone or not. I'm simply trying to be obedient to the Word of God which says that I should preach the gospel. The Holy Ghost will do the rest. To be honest, I can't say I remember who first tried to influence me with the gospel but I know that someone did. I wasn't ready at the time but when I was ready, I seemed to know intuitively where to turn.

I've seen your name about 4 times all within the last few days and you can say that I have "exactly" "never" gotten "thru" to anyone? I am currently looking at the top of my screen. It has the words "Religion" followed by "Christianity." I purposely sought out a forum like this so I could discuss Christianity with other Christians. However, instead of having a gentle conversation with other Christians, I have to put up with gnats and fleas of the Christ-hating community who come in hear for the sole purpose of disrupting our discussions. I don't go into your Wiccan, or witchcraft, or atheist sites and nitpic your every post. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I apologize... I should never use words like "never". However, I will say that your words will fall on many a' deaf ear. Not because they are "Christ-haters" but because of the "un-Christly" way in which you present yourself.

I am very open to gentle conversation, sir. It was, in fact, your very first response to me that dragged us out of "gentle", as I have witnessed you doing with others.

And Mr. Jackson, you do not know what I believe.

Back on topic... what was it again? Oh yes...

If we found life on another planet, it would definitely throw a kink in the teachings of the Christianity. They would be sinners... for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, they would not be saved for God has sent His ONLY begotten Son to Earth to die for OUR sins. Well, I suppose He may have a Daughter to die for theirs:confused:

[QUOTE=DrJizzle]I apologize... I should never use words like "never". However, I will say that your words will fall on many a' deaf ear. Not because they are "Christ-haters" but because of the "un-Christly" way in which you present yourself. QUOTE]

Even the words of Christ, Himself, fell on many-a-deaf-ear. He and His followers were most definitely the minorities of their time. But there was great power in them-those words.

Apparently, my words aren't falling on too many deaf ears because numerous non-believers continue answering my words and following me into areas that I go to remove myself from the constant nagging. My words must have some kind of an effect, wouldn't you agree? Christ was no wimp. Christ is my example; therefore, I am no wimp. I boldly proclaim what I believe. Christ went into a temple once and found the money changers doing business in the temple (I believe it was on the Sabbath day). He turned all the tables over and began whipping the money changers, sending them on their way. Christ stood up for the truth and was a righteous Man. Peter, though later rebuked by Christ, chopped the ear off a Centurion soldier who was in the process of capturing Jesus Christ. The Apostles weren't wimps either. If Christ, Himself, preached the gospel today as He did in His day, people like you would most likely call Him, "un-Christly."

If this was an islamic thread, I'd jump on their dogma also. Although by definition to my understanding there is no difference between christianity and islam. But If I was an alien visiting Earth I would be afraid of all humans just because because it seems they only holler and fight each other.

If this was an islamic thread, I'd jump on their dogma also. Although by definition to my understanding there is no difference between christianity and islam. But If I was an alien visiting Earth I would be afraid of all humans just because because it seems they only holler and fight each other.

Kind of like you're doing now.

Big differences between Chrsitianity and Islam

Don't worry about the aliens and their perspective and feelings... if they come here it will be because they're hungry or need to stop for fuel.

What if they were hippies from another world just looking to party?? Or just being neighborly. What if they were just checking the human seeds they planted eons ago?? The possibilities are endless.

Big differences between Chrsitianity and Islam

You both emphasise following tradition as sheep, and forget that a personal relationship with the Creator comes before the books and scriptures of ancient man. There is no difference. Humans make one for their own purposes.

....If we found life on another planet, it would definitely throw a kink in the teachings of the Christianity. They would be sinners... for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, they would not be saved for God has sent His ONLY begotten Son to Earth to die for OUR sins. Well, I suppose He may have a Daughter to die for theirs:confused:


Why do you assume that they obligatorily must have sinned?

The scripture you quote refers to the descendents of Adam and Eve and no one else.
There are angels, for example, who have remained as they were created--sinless.

Psalms 103:20, "Angels, that excel in strength, that do His commandments, hearkening unto the voice of His word."

You both emphasise following tradition as sheep, and forget that a personal relationship with the Creator comes before the books and scriptures of ancient man. There is no difference. Humans make one for their own purposes.

Islam rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and Muhammed is the central figure. In Christianity, Jesus Christ is central and all important. Different histories. Different prophecies. Different promises. Different traditions and customs. Much historical conflict. Islam believes that Christians are infidels worthy of death simply for rejecting Muhammed.
Simply put, not the same.

Question, if you are so vehemently opposed to Christianity, why do you continue attaching yourself to a Christian thread? You reject Christ and His teachings. Just be honest, are you simply here to argue? Would you consider yourself a good representative of your belief system?

[QUOTE=talaniman]If this was an islamic thread, I'd jump on their dogma also. QUOTE]

Look towards the top of your screen. You will see a list words. "Home>Society&Culture>Religion>Christianity>Is Earth the only populated planet?" all in that order. See it? Okay. Click on Religion. That will take you to a list of various religions. Islam is listed along with some others. Click on Islam. Bye bye.

Question, if you are so vehemently opposed to Christianity, why do you continue attaching yourself to a Christian thread? You reject Christ and His teachings. Just be honest, are you simply here to argue? Would you consider yourself a good representative of your belief system?
I never considered debating as being vehement, nor have I ever said I was against christianity, and that was explained in a previous thread. And yes I consider myself a fairly good representative of my belief system, and in being so can go where ever I want, and state what I believe with the same rights you have. Does it offend you? To bad, get over it. I find those who get defensive have something to hide, so relax and explore the possibilities, before you make me suspicious.

Islam rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and Muhammed is the central figure. In Christianity, Jesus Christ is central and all important. Different histories. Different prophecies. Different promises. Different traditions and customs. Much historical conflict. Islam believes that Christians are infidels worthy of death simply for rejecting Muhammed.
Simply put, not the same.

Actually its merely a different perspective, The tree has many branches.

Islam believes that Christians are infidels worthy of death simply for rejecting Muhammed.

Until you find evidence of this, don't expect me to take your word, as this is akin to bearing false witness against your brother. Almost as bad as assuming aliens would only come here to eat us.

Aliens wouldn't only come here to eat us, you have to consider our ski slopes, and the unique fun of cow tipping, which is unique to earth, which are among our many attractions.
Seriosuly now, talanimans right. Don't say that they hate christians, unless their religious texts say things to make us seem bad, otherwise it could just be some factions of the religion, not all.

Haha cal, how do you know, there might be other species on other planets that survive being eaten because it's so funny when you tip them over! Any predators can't stop laughing! Talk about evolutionary advantage!

I apologize... I should never use words like "never". However, I will say that your words will fall on many a' deaf ear. Not because they are "Christ-haters" but because of the "un-Christly" way in which you present yourself.

Even the words of Christ, Himself, fell on many-a-deaf-ear. He and His followers were most definitely the minorities of their time. But there was great power in them-those words.

Apparently, my words aren't falling on too many deaf ears because numerous non-believers continue answering my words and following me into areas that I go to remove myself from the constant nagging. My words must have some kind of an effect, wouldn't you agree? Christ was no wimp. Christ is my example; therefore, I am no wimp. I boldly proclaim what I believe. Christ went into a temple once and found the money changers doing business in the temple (I believe it was on the Sabbath day). He turned all the tables over and began whipping the money changers, sending them on their way. Christ stood up for the truth and was a righteous Man. Peter, though later rebuked by Christ, chopped the ear off a Centurion soldier who was in the process of capturing Jesus Christ. The Apostles weren't wimps either. If Christ, Himself, preached the gospel today as He did in His day, people like you would most likely call Him, "un-Christly."

I don't know what gave you the idea that I thought Christ was a "wimp". Again, that is you assuming that you know me and what I believe. And we all know what happens when one assumes anything.

And don't, not even for a second, pretend that you are Christly. If you existed in Christs day, you would certainly have joined the masses and crucified Him, just as you are so quick to crucify anyone that challenges your beliefs today.

Why do you assume that they obligatorily must have sinned?

The scripture you quote refers to the descendents of Adam and Eve and no one else.
There are angels, for example, who have remained as they were created--sinless.

Psalms 103:20, "Angels, that excel in strength, that do His commandments, hearkening unto the voice of His word."

Interesting theory. Is there anything that states that the words of the Bible are meant for the descendants of Adam and them only?

Also, you are comparing aliens to angels. If we don't make the distinction between the two, then that could also go to show that Heaven is just like another planet that is populated by aliens (angels).

Interesting theory. Is there anything that states that the words of the Bible are meant for the descendants of Adam and them only?

Also, you are comparing aliens to angels. If we don't make the distinction between the two, then that could also go to show that Heaven is just like another planet that is populated by aliens (angels).

Here are the differences:
Only a third of all angels have sinned, Revelation 12:4
While, in contrast, all humans have.

Angels are spirits and we are material.

Psalm 104:4
Who maketh his angels spirits;...

Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits,.

And more powerful..

2 Peter 2:11
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

But there are also very important similarities which far outweigh the physical. For example. Both were created sinless and fully capable of maintaining that sinless condition if they so wished.

"You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones." -- Ezekiel 28:15-16


"This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes." -- Ecclesiastes 7:29

Both angels and humans are referred to as God's progeny made in his image. So we are spiritual siblings as it were. The angel which gave John the Revelation made this clear.

Rev 22:
8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

There are words in the Bible which might very well be applied to all his other intelligent material creatures if such exist. But the one quoted is directly referring to the Gentiles and Jews[mankind] and doesn't lend itself to universal extrapolation.

To understand the twenty-third verse we have to consider what is written immediately before it. The context of the scripture quoted indicates that it was written for and referring to humans, specifically to the Roman Christians and natural Jews. It was intended as an explanation of the new relationship or of the creation of a spiritual Israel via the New Covenant which came into effect via Jesus' death. The All, mentioned refers to both Jews and Gentiles who are described as equally sinful and equally dependent on Jesus' Ransom sacrifice for forgiveness of sin. This is made clear in the following verses.


Romans 2:
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 3:
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Book of Romans - Bible Survey (http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Romans.html)

Are angels aliens?
Well, some might view them that way since they definitely aren't of this Earth as humans are. But the word alien seems to convey a spiritual barrier that doesn't exist between the righteous angels and obedient mankind. I can imagine that it also would become a term that just wouldn't fit in with the discovery of other material creatures who are righteous. Perhaps the horror films have contributed to this negative connotation although I strongly suspect that the word per-se has always been rather harsh toward those it's applied to. Because of this I personally would not think of them that way but rather as our elder spiritual brothers who were present and cheered when God created the Earth.

Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?



Is heaven a planet?

This reminds me of the Star Trek film where a Vulcan, [Spock's brother] goes searching for God on a deserted planet surrounded by some typew of barrier. No, there is no biblical basis to believe that heaven is a planet. Actually, I fail to see how a partial comparison of angels to humans can lead to that drastic conclusion. Can you explain how?

Wow... great post, very insightful.

Lets see... I made that comparison because of the comparison of Angels to aliens. Aliens basically being a material being not of this planet. Angels are similar but, as you said, are spiritual, or on another plane of existence.

Heaven could be considered the same way... another planet but one that is spiritual, or on another plane of existence.

[i better say, I am not well versed in Mormonism... what I say next is based on what I know of Mormonism... it may or may not be true or exact... or may just be specific sects of the religion]
What about the Mormon aspect to this. They believe in Jesus Christ and they believe that Heaven is, in fact, another planet. They also believe that if they live a good enough life that they can become a God and will rule their own Heaven, or planet. And I think they believe it will be populated by their children's heavenly bodies, which is why it is custom to have many children.

While I think that religion is a ways off the mark, it can't be that absurd of me to make that comparison.

wow... great post, very insightful.

Lets see... I made that comparison because of the comparison of Angels to aliens. Aliens basically being a material being not of this planet. Angels are similar but, as you said, are spiritual, or on another plane of existence.

Heaven could be considered the same way... another planet but one that is spiritual, or on another plane of existence.

[i better say, I am not well versed in Mormonism... what I say next is based on what I know of Mormonism... it may or may not be true or exact... or may just be specific sects of the religion]
What about the Mormon aspect to this. They believe in Jesus Christ and they believe that Heaven is, in fact, another planet. They also believe that if they live a good enough life that they can become a God and will rule their own Heaven, or planet. And I think they believe it will be populated by their children's heavenly bodies, which is why it is custom to have many children.

While I think that religion is a ways off the mark, it can't be that absurd of me to make that comparison.

Which comparison are you referring to?

I have just recently become better acquainted with the LDS viewpoint which is completely opposite to that of mainstream Christianity. You are right. They believe the biblical God almighty was once a mortal man who was glorified to Godhood and is now actually just one among many other Gods almighties who were also glorified to the position. Of course they do not rely just on the NT and OT to support this view but also on other writings--especially those of their prophet John Smith.

But coming back on subject, under such a theology then, of course the universe would be teaming with multiple universes ruled by multiple procreating married Gods and populated by humans who also aspire to become Gods almighties themselves.

Here is a site which clarifies the LDS doctrine a bit:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyK_08WlGRtEA0zFrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=117kfnbqi/EXP=1181434740/**http%3a//www.lds.org/)

Apology offered:
Provided official site as requested:

Also, I did not say that the LDS considered these other "Gods" above the biblical one.
But if there are any other LDS doctrinal errors you feel I made feel free to point them out.

BTW
It is estimated that there are more stars in our universe than all the grains of sands on all the beaches on Earth put together--which makes it rather difficult to imagine that they are completely devoid of planetary life.

Is your edit in regards to Laceys comment?

Anywhoo...

Im getting a little confused but I believe the comparison that I was referring to is the one which you questioned here:

Actually, I fail to see how a partial comparison of angels to humans can lead to that drastic conclusion. Can you explain how?

And yes, I agree about Mormonism. It is not based on what we know as the OT and NT now but other "lost" scriptures of the same Bible.

I find it odd how these scriptures can be so much different that the "accepted" ones.

So if that were true and our universe is somehow mingled with these other universes, then would they lie on the same plane or realm? Or are they spiritual? If they are just spiritual (not meaning that in a derogatory way whatsoever), then is it even fair to acknowledge them as another planet as intended in the opening post?

Interesting theory. Is there anything that states that the words of the Bible are meant for the descendants of Adam and them only?

Also, you are comparing aliens to angels. If we dont make the distinction between the two, then that could also go to show that Heaven is just like another planet that is populated by aliens (angels).

If you would actually read the Bible you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the words of the Bible were written to, for, and about them. Just read "the begats" found in Genesis.

Until you find evidence of this, don't expect me to take your word, as this is akin to bearing false witness against your brother. Almost as bad as assuming aliens would only come here to eat us.

One post you're all about perspective, then you want evidence and proof, then you're about perspective, then facts, then perspective, then facts. Whew... If I had only had your mood swings as a teen... I wouldn't have needed all those drugs.

Has God created beings on other planets besides Earth? And if so, are there also sinners in those worlds?

Actually, when our astronauts landed on the moon, there were sinners there. About as close and anyone can ever prove that sinners (or life of any kind) existed anywhere other than earth.

Thanks Starman for the edit. WE LDS sometimes get misquoted and misunderstood and I appreciate your willingness to seek the truth about us. There is not a whole lot of discussion in the church about other Gods although we do strive to be worthly to become one after this life.WE take this scripture literaly: Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Of course we will never be equal with Jesus. He is the only begotten son and we can never have the glory that he has. Also I have never heard of the other planet idea. May be taught somewhere but as a life long member not familiar to me. WE do however believe that other worlds have been created but again not much more than that is discussed. It is not a large part of our doctrine. I have to assume that there are many things that I don't know about this creation and any others and my salvation really doesn't depend on that anyway. Great posts. I have enjoyed the discussions.

Is your edit in regards to Laceys comment?

Anywhoo....

Im getting a little confused but i believe the comparison that i was referring to is the one which you questioned here:


And yes, I agree about Mormonism. It is not based on what we know as the OT and NT now but other "lost" scriptures of the same Bible.

I find it odd how these scriptures can be so much different that the "accepted" ones.

So if that were true and our universe is somehow mingled with these other universes, then would they lie on the same plane or realm? or are they spiritual? If they are just spiritual (not meaning that in a derogatory way whatsoever), then is it even fair to acknowledge them as another planet as intended in the opening post?



Yes, the edit was in response to Lacy's feedback.


I'm not certain what the LDS teachings are in respect to these universes. But below is a very informative article on the multiverse subject.

Multiverse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse)



There's also the theory which attempts to explain the Big Bang as being a consequence of the collision between as branes [short for membranes] or dimensions. Some scientists who prefer this explanation don't rule out the possibility of life in these other dimensions if they do exist.

The following site offers an explanation about the this.

'Brane-Storm' Challenges Part of Big Bang Theoryt (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKs0cmpGpN0AbXRrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=124kk8oj2/EXP=1181467572/**http%3a//members.fortunecity.es/lamb1/branes1.html)

Actually, God's heaven itself seems to fit the description of another dimension since it seems reserved for nonmaterial things and humans who are said to be admitted there must undergo a transformation.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50).


BTW

One thing to keep in mind is that the definition of a planet is one which necessitates three dimensionality. So strictly speaking, residents of other dimensional realms might live in or on places which don't fit the spherical requirements of the planetary category.

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.

Although Christ was visible after His resurrection and Thomas was able to put his hand in the pierced side of Christ. Somehow that plane on the other side can be visible but it would seem that only under miraculous conditions.

If you would actually read the Bible you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the words of the Bible were written to, for, and about them. Just read "the begats" found in Genesis.

There you go assuming things once again.

Interpretation of the Bible is key. The way that you interpret the Bible, or rather the way that you were taught to think the Bible should be interpreted, I assure you is quite different than my interpretation.

This is where Christians like you make assumptions about the Bible because, "well, thats just the way it is," and "if you actually read it, you would just know that." Rather than actually having any real insight on the matter. And yet, you discount other interpretations simply because that's the way that your "Religion" has taught you to think of it.

I did not say that I disagree with anything that you believe. And yet you continue to assume that I do. I have, however, asked you why you believe the way that you do. But your mind is closed to that as so many others are.

Actually, God's heaven itself seems to fit the description of another dimension since it seems reserved for nonmaterial things and humans who are said to be admitted there must undergo a transformation.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 15:50).


BTW

One thing to keep in mind is that the definition of a planet is one which necessitates three dimensionality. So strictly speaking, residents of other dimensional realms might live in or on places which don't fit the spherical requirements of the planetary category.

I could not agree more. And due to this, we cannot assume that Angels are then, in relation to "aliens". Would that be correct?

If so, then we know of no other intelligent beings (of this dimension?) that are capable of life without sin. This is one of the attributes which we so highly regard of Jesus Christ, himself.

Either way, we do not know whether they would be without sin or not. But if they were not without sin, is there a chance or a way in which they could ever be saved?


**side note... and not to bring you into anything that you are not a part of... but Starman is one of a handful of strong and intelligent Christians on this board, capable of intelligent thought, supportive information, and open-mindedness. I appreciate that.

There you go assuming things once again.

Interpretation of the Bible is key. The way that you interpret the Bible, or rather the way that you were taught to think the Bible should be interpreted, I assure you is quite different than my interpretation.

This is where Christians like you make assumptions about the Bible because, "well, thats just the way it is," and "if you actually read it, you would just know that." Rather than actually having any real insight on the matter. And yet, you discount other interpretations simply because thats the way that your "Religion" has taught you to think of it.

I did not say that I disagree with anything that you believe. And yet you continue to assume that I do. I have, however, asked you why you believe the way that you do. But your mind is closed to that as so many others are.

There you go again "assuming" you know what I think.

I believe in Cause and Affect. I believe that there can only be 1 first cause and that Cause is God. God was uncaused for if He had been caused, He would not be the first Cause. Therefore, God is eternal.

I believe that God created the world in a literal 6 day period for the Bible says that the evening and the morning were the first day and the evening and the morning were the second day... etc.

I believe that God had a specific plan or blueprint for creation and that all was created perfect and that He looked on His Creation and found it to be good.

I believe that the first sinner was the archangel, Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer was as subtle as a serpent and that he deceived Eve into disobeying God's direct command not to partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I do not believe that the fruit of that tree was a literal apple or orange but rather a philosophy that was contrary to God's plan for Adam and his posterity.

I believe that by disobeying God, Adam and Eve suffered the consequences; were cast out of the garden of Eden; and were bound to live in an unperfect world.

I believe that the "man" and "woman" created in the 1st chapter of Genesis were created simultaneously and that they were created from thin air, fiat. I believe that Adam was later formed from the dust of the ground after God had rested on the seventh day and that Eve was subsequently formed from one of Adam's ribs. Adam was formed from pre-existing matter unlike those "created" from thin air. "Created" and "formed" are two different words with two different meanings.

I believe that the Bible is a history of Adam's posterity specifically that portion of his seed that is traced through Seth through to Heber to Noah then through Shem to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (later called Israel), then to the twelve sons of Israel who's posterity is the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Bible is full of history (His Story); life lessons; guidelines for living in the form of moral law; prophecy; examples of blessings and punishments. I believe that the Old Testament is the rock solid foundation on which the New Testament stands. I believe that the New Testament is the continuing history of the Old Testament. I believe that Jesus was an Israelite Who's lineage is traceable to the tribes of Judah (the King tribe) and Levi (the priest tribe). I believe that all 12 Apostles were also Israelites of one tribe or the other. Paul proclaimed to be of the tribe of Benjamin.

I believe that there is much of the Bible that has been fulfilled and some that has not been fulfilled. I reject the "rapture" theory that says that right before the end time tribulation, Christians will be raptured away. I believe that earth is a testing ground for mankind. God is looking for the faithful and steadfast believers who can withstand the trials to come (just as the Christians of the Dark Ages or the Christians persecuted by the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution withstood those trying times).

Should I continue? Much more that I could say but don't want to bore anyone.

I could not agree more. And due to this, we cannot assume that Angels are then, in relation to "aliens". Would that be correct?

If so, then we know of no other intelligent beings (of this dimension?) that are capable of life without sin. This is one of the attributes which we so highly regard of Jesus Christ, himself.

Either way, we do not know whether they would be without sin or not. But if they were not without sin, is there a chance or a way in which they could ever be saved?


**side note... and not to bring you into anything that you are not a part of... but Starman is one of a handful of strong and intelligent Christians on this board, capable of intelligent thought, supportive information, and open-mindedness. I appreciate that.



Righteous angels aliens? I have difficulty viewing them that way. More like friendly big brothers.

Angels (http://www.members.aol.com/countdown6000/ct6/ang19.html)

However, rebel angels, with their self-destructive unrepentant hate-motivated behavior, which can even take the form of possession of humans and animals, and their eagerness to produce hybrid nephilim during the pre-flood days comes across as very alien to me.

I agree, that we can't assume anything in relation to any other possible creature made in God's image except that it was created sinless and that if it is now in sin it is because it willingly chose that path or was born into sin as humans are now. The following scripture describes God's creation as perfect not sinful.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Those in sin would be in need of redemption. I would say that there would be a way to redeem such creatures by using the same method that was used to redeem us--a life for life sacrifice. In my opinion

BTW

Thank you for the commendation.

Starman, I tried reading the Wikipedia seemed very complicated to me even with a college education. BUt I can except another plane or dimension that we can't see. I believe we can't see it because it is a spiritual existence and has humans we don't have the perception of that plane. Best explained maybe as a veil. Very thin and sometimes you can almost feel there is more out there but never fully able to see. I believe that is where our spirits go after our earthly death. I am not sure I explained myself very well here. Just my thoughts and they are worth what you paid for them.


Ultimately our perception is simply the interpretation of neural impulses sent in coded fashion and interpreted by the human brain in a predetermined way. So as long as we are fettered by our senses, the nomena --ultimate reality], will remain beyond our grasp. But this would apply to all other creatures as well, both terrestrial and extraterrestrial. What is red to us might seem green to them. What feels rough to us might feel smooth to them. What is bitter to us might taste sweet to them. What is pleasure to us might be pleasurable to them. What appears as bright to us might appear dark to them. This can be said of all the senses. In short, we could have a universe of creatures each species living within its perceived universe which to the other species either doesn't exist or is completely out of sensorial range. Imagine an attempt to reason with such creatures! If indeed such is the case, then that would perhaps explain the reason why God chose to create the vast distances which keep us apart. In my opinion


BTW
I agree, the article is not an easy read and sometimes scientists and science writers aren't very lucid in their explanations. I personally have difficulty with the dimensionality concept due to its ultimate location paradox requirements which physicists accept tongue-in cheek via hypothetically imagining all these universes within a dimension which contains them. But that sets up the problem of what contains that dimension ad infinitum. Only God knows the truth.

Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

In short, we could have a universe of creatures each species living within its perceived universe which to the other species either doesn't exist or is completely out of sensorial range. Imagine an attempt to reason with such creatures! If indeed such is the case, then that would perhaps explain the reason why God chose to create the vast distances which keep us apart. In my opinion

Very good post Starman, and I think it can apply to humanity today, as we know the world is covered with humans who have evolved with many interpretations of their limited universes, to explain life as they see it. This changes as there is more interactions with those of opposing views, and the free exchange of methods or ideas take place. As humans all the tribes of the earth are caught in the conflict of promoting their own particular view point, as history tells us many wars, and much blood has been spilled, in the pursuit of extending influence, and gaining power, through Control of resources under the guise of religious belief, and divine power assumed by those to control the masses. All the religions of the Earth have used God as their battle cry to exterminate or dominate other humans, in this push for power and control. I imagine the same thing plays out on other populated planets in the same way, and someday we on Earth will stop the killing, to rise above the restraints of our own boundaries, and meet new life among the stars that have hopefully gone through the same changes and have bridged the distance you have mentioned. But first we must bridge the differences here on earth.

As humans all the tribes of the earth are caught in the conflict of promoting their own particular view point, as history tells us many wars, and much blood has been spilled, in the pursuit of extending influence, and gaining power, thru Control of resources under the guise of religious belief, and divine power assumed by those to control the masses. .

Under the guise of religious beliefs like Bolshevik Communists (who believed in the religions of humanism and evolution) or under the guise of non-religious beliefs i.e. Nazism, Fascism, or even ultra-Capitalism. Not all the woes of the world can be blamed on some religion run amuck

You missed my point. Its not the religion, but the peole who use it to justify their actions at the expense of human life and suffering. There is always some excuse to justify the mass killing, and carnage, and it always traces back to human greed, and not having a value, or respect for life.

Anyone who blames religion for all the earths wars, is overimplifying the matter, different wars are created by different things, and its not religion that causes wars of faith, but difference of religion, or religion being used to justify illogical and immoral behaviour.
I also believe that war is just another way of humanity expressing its hate for its own kind, its discontent with the fact that we do not have that one thing that we think will bring happiness, that maybe they are holding it back from us, and that we must take from them to be happy, also the misguided and selfish belief that they are other nations, and that we must be the superior nation, and that we are always right. When the truth is, we are all descended from the same, we are in fact all a huge family, any differences among us just caused either by will of god, or tiny mutations and chance within or genes. We are in fact, all human, and we all share the same loneliness, the same feelings that we are right, and the same misguided belief that we can be truly happy and satisfied by things other than god. Thankfully, there is a god, and he has shown us a path to happiness, and provided us all with a purpose, and he loves us, regardlesss of race, creed, intent, desire or nation.

Auttajasi agrees: Yep. If there are others out there, I think it is very likely that there are atheists.

I would just like to point out that I didn't say that at all. In fact I was saying that I wasn't sure if I agreed with talaniman on the atheism front.

Auttajasi agrees: Yep. If there are others out there, I think it is very likely that there are atheists.

I would just like to point out that I didn't say that at all. In fact I was saying that I wasn't sure if i agreed with talaniman on the atheism front.

Yea, I realized that you were ambiguous about it. Unfortunately, I didn't write the "Auttajasi agrees" part. I was merely stating that I believe there are other atheists out there. Maybe I should have said it in the form of a new post rather than a reputation point. Sorry if my post made it seem that you were taking a stance.
Lesson learned. :-)

Hehe, I don't mind the extra rating, esspecially with all the people reading things into what I have said tonight.

I don't think that one data point is enough to extrapolate what other beings would be like from.

Auttajasi agrees: They are not that different from the Bible. Nothing in LDS scripture directly contradicts that which is in the Bible. Again, the reoccuring theme in this forum is that we all read, see, hear, and think things each from our own lens of life.

Hmmm... that can be arguable... Simply based on interpretation. Then again, there are many books that some may consider blasphemous that can be said to not contradict anything in the Bible.

And I agree 100% to your last statement ;)

Big differences between Chrsitianity and Islam



You both emphasise following tradition as sheep, and forget that a personal relationship with the Creator comes before the books and scriptures of ancient man. There is no difference. Humans make one for their own purposes.

Auttajasi (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/auttajasi.html) disagrees: Big generalization about Christians. Some focus on the scriptures before their personal relationship, but you can't make this statement about all Christians. It's like me saying that all nonchristians burn crosses. Sure, some do, but most don't.
(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/auttajasi.html)
My point was that Islam, and Christianity, are but different limbs of the same tree, and both, along with Judaism, came from the same religious belief and the differences are MAN-MADE!!. They all can trace there roots to Abraham and the old testament. Sorry you missed the point.

My point was that Islam, and Christianity, are but different limbs of the same tree, and both, along with Judaism, came from the same religious belief and the differences are MAN-MADE!!. They all can trace there roots to Abraham and the old testament. Sorry you missed the point.

If you were trying to make historical reference as to the origin of these religions, why did you make a comment referring the ways that people practice it. MY point was that you cannot possibly know how each person values their personal relationship with their Creater. It is wrong to say that "there is no difference." In saying this you probably only revealed your own personal feelings towards organized religion, and you feel that people spend more time focusing on the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law.
This is normal, however, for a person to lump groups together of which they don't belong. Many Americans think that all Arabs are the same, but it would be safe to say that most Arabs would take offense to this comment. People lump together groups because they either don't know the differences, don't understand the differences, don't care to see the differences.
I am merely saying that just because 2 people look alike, came from the same family, and have similar characteristics, this doesn't mean that they are completely the same. Everyone and everything is unique and this should be recognized. I do, however, acknowledge that there are similar characteristics between Christianity and Islam. Quite different though.
-peace

Very good post Starman, and I think it can apply to humanity today, as we know the world is covered with humans who have evolved with many interpretations of their limited universes, to explain life as they see it. This changes as there is more interactions with those of opposing views, and the free exchange of methods or ideas take place. As humans all the tribes of the earth are caught in the conflict of promoting their own particular view point, as history tells us many wars, and much blood has been spilled, in the pursuit of extending influence, and gaining power, thru Control of resources under the guise of religious belief, and divine power assumed by those to control the masses. All the religions of the Earth have used God as their battle cry to exterminate or dominate other humans, in this push for power and control. I imagine the same thing plays out on other populated planets in the same way, and someday we on Earth will stop the killing, to rise above the restraints of our own boundaries, and meet new life among the stars that have hopefully gone thru the same changes and have bridged the distance you have mentioned. But first we must bridge the differences here on earth.


Yes, I agree that cultural differences are a great of disruption between humans.
But these cultural differences between humans might pale in contrast to the perceptual incompatibilities we might encounter out there on other planets if God allowed us to.

To illustrate, let's consider a scenario where two hundred aliens were visually exposed to a triangular glass prism. One might say that it sees a green undulating gelatinous mass. Another might perceive the prism as a black hole. Still another might not see anything at all. Ad infinitum, Which of these millions of perceptions represents ultimate reality? Each alien might honestly believe its perception to be the correct one. And even if each alien knew the cause for the perceptual differences was neural hardwiring, still the question of what really is the object, if any, which seemingly stimulates the response in each alien's case would enigmatically remain and the answer would forever hover just beyond each alien's perceptual reach.

Imagine inviting three ambassadors to board your streamlined state-of-the art ship?
The non-human reactions might be as follows: One might say he doesn't see any ship. The other might be blinded by its brilliance even though it's painted a dull black. Yet another might back away fearfully thinking that to board the black hole you call a ship is to commit suicide. Who would be perceiving the ship correctly we or they?

We might board the ship in what we consider a few minutes. An alien might
See us moving in slow motion and taking days to traverse the distance and become frustrated. The ship's interior might smell of leather, new paint, and plastics to us, but to them it might wreak of putrefying flesh. In fact, we might smell the same way forcing them to don gas masks wnenever we come near. They in turn might smell like roses to us but another species hurl their breakfast in reaction to their perceived stench.

So In my opinion life on other planets might very often be far stranger to us than we can presently imagine and so incompatible with our perceptual abilities as to make communication very difficult if not almost impossible.

I have to agree there may be a lot of problems to be solved, many may be difficult, especially since we humans have problems on Earth. But they still keep trying as seen by the shuttle launch a few days ago, on amission to upgrade the International space station. They had to stay a couple of days to make repairs to the shuttle insulation. Problems to be solved all the time. Did you know the upgrades are in preparation for a Mars venture??

I have to agree there may be a lot of problems to be solved, many may be difficult, especially since we humans have problems on Earth. But they still keep trying as seen by the shuttle launch a few days ago, on amission to upgrade the International space station. They had to stay a couple of days to make repairs to the shuttle insulation. Problems to be solved all the time. Did you know the upgrades are in preparation for a Mars venture???


Yes, I know that they are gradually preparing to take that major leap to Mars. But before they do they are aiming for a moon base. Actually, when I was a kid I took it for granted that a moon base would have been established long before the year 2000. Especially after I viewed the film "2001 A Space Oddysee" where flights to the moon were portrayed as routine events. But here we are still in earth orbit. Not to say that caution should be thrown to the wind. Human life can easily be lost in this venture as has happened two times now on our shuttles. But I think that once mankind turns lunar flights into a routine event it will have gained the confidence and experience needed to reach for the Red planet and, and if God permits, beyond.

Of course the only life they are expecting to find on Mars is microbial. But who knows what variety of life the creator might have decided to place there? In fact, some claim to have found it already.
Evidence of Ancient Martian Life in Meteorite ALH84001? (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html)

I remember the moon base in, Space:1999, we may be a little behind schedule.

Elohim has many definitions,
Elohim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim#Elohim_in_Islam)

What the Bible account describes below is the attempt by Satan and other rebel angels to genetically contaminate mankind via interbreeding. In that way they felt that the chance for the Christ to be born would be made more difficult. The giants mentioned were the halfbreeds. Half angel half human offspring of this unnatural union.


Genesis 6: 1-8 Original KJV:
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


If these passages are "REALLY" in the bible, then GOD is not perfect. He is human or at least also capable of sin. Because if GOD is perfect, he would not have to repent from his mistakes. He basically made man and admitted that it was a mistake, then wanted to kill us all because he wanted to repent, but found favor in Noah. So he killed everyone else on the face of the earth except for Noah's family. Still a mass murderer in my book. The simple fact that GOD needed to repent tell's me that our GOD answers to a higher being. Just as the Angels answers to GOD, GOD answers to the Universe!

For all Christians out there, you need to study the Sumerians and the Annunaki go to this link to learn more, it is a series... The Sumerians & The Annunaki Part 1 - Video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299168/the_sumerians_the_annunaki_part_1/)

Brief History of the Sumerians... they are the 1st race to have a recorded history... 1st language... 1st civilization... they have thousands of recorded history on clay tablets written in Sumer only a handful of intellectuals can decipher. Their art depicted on stone walls shows the COMPLETE SOLAR SYSTEM with the sun as the center of the solar system and each planet in its rightful place... even the size of each planet was correct on the as depicted on the Stone walls. We as modern men did not realize the Sun as the center of the solar system until the 1500 century, until then we all thought that the Earth was flat and that the planets, moons and sun revolved around the Earth. The Sumerians also knew and depicted on the Stone walls a tiny planet at the edge of our Solar System that they called KI which we call Pluto... we as modern men did not know of such a planet until just 30 years ago.

So how did these ancient Sumerians know so much about the Stars and our Solar System? Where did they develop their written language, their government, their technology to build such a great city of stone when in fact the Sumerians themselves were just one step out of the stone ages 6000 years ago? From GODS!! Yes GODS being plural. In their recorded stone tablets they have the history of how the GODS ascended from the stars who taught them to read and write, law and government, mason and architecture. These GODS, beings from the stars provided them with intelligence about the Solar System, gave them history of another Planet called Nibiru... the Planet of the GODS where the GODS are from. The evidence is abundant but why has every society on the face of Earth trying to keep this hush hush?

GODS? No... they are just other beings who so happen to be HUMAN!! With great technology and knowledge from another planet. What we call GOD, Jesus, Allah, Buddha... are just ETs from another planet called Nibiru... who the Sumerians say returns to Earth every 3600 years! So when is Jesus due back on Earth? Well just take a look at the history of the Sumerians... the GODS last left Earth around 1000 BC... 1000 + 2009 = 3009... give or take a few hundred years. Jesus is set to return very soon! But is Jesus GOD? Is his father GOD? Or are they just Humans from another planet that so happens to age very slowly or live very long due to a better atmosphere or environment on the planet Nibiru. And do they answer to a higher being? YES I BELIEVE SO! They answer to the UNIVERSE... which goes back to my initial point is that the in the BIBLE it states that "GOD" needed to repent for his mistakes. And he repents in order to keep favor with the UNIVERSE which we all must do.;)