"Can you believe in the Big Bang theory AND a God that created the universe or are they mutually exclusive?"

I am firmly convinced of both God the Creator and the Big Bang that He set off.

My belief: yes you can believe in both without being inconsistent. Science tries to tell us how things happened, not why. The fact that the Big Bang describes the instant of creation is in my opinion not inconsistent with a role for a supreme being who could have created the rules by which the Big Bang worked (as well as all subsequent laws of physics). To be sure the Big Bang doesn't in any way prove the existence of God either; I just maintain that they are not inconsistent.

Why not, after all a while ago we all believed that the world was flat.
Belief is an amazing thing, you don't need proof to believe in anything.
After all we don't know for sure about either the Big Bang or God, yet we choose to believe.

Do you think that there are more spiritual people that believe in the Big Bang, compared with science minded people that believe in God. Why. My experience is that it is difficult to have a conversation about God with a deeply rooted scientist. It is also equally difficult to have a scientific conversation with a deeply religious or spiritual believer.
I think those of us that believe strongly in both are an exception to the rule, but I could be wrong.

Curlyben, what do you tell a person that claims to know for sure that God exists? Describing my own belief in God, it is not a hope that he exists; I know he exists. No, I have not seen God, or claim any special divinity as a chosen one.

From a scientific stand point you cannot PROVE that God exists, as we can't PROVE that the Big Bang happened.
We have indicators and can surmise but we have NO hard scientific proof.

At the end of the day belief is a very personal thing, so each to their own.

I think the "deeply religous" and the "deeply scientific" are not mutually exclusive, but are rather "orthogonal" to each other. What I mean is that the scientific and spiritual thinking operate entirely differently, and so it's rare that one is comfortable and proficient operating in both worlds. Your observation is like noticing that there are few professional athletes who are also accomplished artists - it's not that you can't do both, but anyone who devotes their career to one of these professions is unlikely to very successful in the other. But for the rest of us "dabblers," we can certainly appreciate, understand, and even try to emulate both athletes and artists. So it is for us dabblers in science and spirituality.

I happen to know two physics professors who are married. One is an atheist precisely because he does not see, through physics, proof of God. The other does believe in God because she can see the proof God. She looks at the universe through the eyes of Thomas Aquinas, and he through the eyes of Charles Darwin. It seems as if it is the point of view from which they see the universe.

I see no contradiction in believing in the Big Bag and God. For to me God is the cause.

"Can you believe in the Big Bang theory AND a God that created the universe or are they mutually exclusive?"
Of corse you can!

It depends on what you believe God did. If you believe he created the universe 4000 years ago, then obviously you cannot believe that there was a big bang 13.6 billion years ago.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive, though.

When God created Adam and Eve, He created them as mature humans. So to with the universe.

I believe the Creator did it all.

Stephen Hawking has expressed that physics has indicated to him that there MUST be a God. So I'd say it's certainly possible. If you feel you must literally interpret your religious text of choice, then believing the validity of Big Bang cosmology becomes somewhat more difficult.

As for me, I'd love to think there's something bigger out there... but until I see what it is, the search must go on and I will assert nothing.

GOD "Said" let there be... He spoke the universe into existence. The expanding universe that the scientist see is just GODs voice moving in all directions at the speed of sound through absolutely nothing while still creating. Simply because it looks as if something exploded and is moving away from a center point does not make it the reaction of an explosion. The center point it is moving away from is the Creator. What was there to explode in the first place and what caused it to explode? Nothing. In the beginning, there was nothing in the physical realm.

Steviebeezie disagrees: interesting idea, but it's the speed of light, not sound. HUGE difference.


Nice attempt but Im pretty sure that no one actually believes it's the sound waves from Gods actual voice. In that sense, "The voice of God" cannot be heard by the human ear nor measured by anything but the soul... which would also lay upon the same frequency.

Its funny how most cannot help but attune God with man and the physical realm

My mistake. GOD is light so it only stands to reason that his creation is still creating at the speed of light. Thank you for refreshing my memory stieviebeezie. It has been years since I first conceived the reality of the multiverse.

So why not, we know that God created everything, I have no problem believing that God created it with a "bang"

While I personally don't believe it that way, I think God created it fully developed, I will not disrespect a person who still has their faith in Jesus as God's Son because they believe God created it by creating all matieral from nothing and allowing the laws of nature to take effect.

And then again, some one here may have hit the nail spuare on the head and we still wouldn't know for certain. It's all a matter of how you translate what you see around you and what makes you comfortable. If some one tells me they have the final answer, I just look at them and smile and say,"Good for you!"

I personally feel that you can believe in both and not be contradicting yourself. Merely because it's a possibility that god was the one who allowed the ''Big Bang'' to happen in the first place. Now, I myself, believe in the here and now. I'm not too concerned with how it all began or how I got here. What's more important to me, is what to do with myself and my time on this earth. We live but a short time anyway.

The theory would only be unnacceptable to believers in God if it required no God to be involved by default. Actually that's mind-set adopted by most BB theorists. However, there is nothing in the theory itself that requires the exclusion of a Creator.

The B.B. could be explained in Genesis 1:1- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So everything is possible with God.
I am hearing from some Christian theologians that I respect their views well, that they believe in a pre-Adamic earth (a gap theory) between Gen.1:1 and 1:2.
So, the B.B. theory has the billions of yrs. Ago timeline -which is possible for Genesis 1:1.
So, maybe one has to be an "old earth" creation/scientist to say the theory of the beginning of the universe was billions of yrs. Ago.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

The above verse confirms for muslims that the whole universe was one before it broke apart, but I cannot confirm if this is the Big Bang theory scientists are talking about.

To believe in the Big Bang one has to believe in a God, since there had to be material to bang and material to be made into all the planets, all of the suns, all of the moons, all of the other things. And the energy to cause this had to come from somewhere.

So someone had to create the material and energy that was used to cause the bang.

So someone had to create the material and energy that was used to cause the bang.Who created the someone that created the material and energy?

To beleive in the Big Bang one has to believe in a God, since there had to be material to bang and material to be made into all the planets, all of the suns, all of the moons, all of the other things. And the energy to cause this had to come from somewhere.

So someone had to create the material and energy that was used to cause the bang.

I think this is stretching it a bit. Many would say that the material formed itself... through the right elements and forces. In this case you can't really use the equation if A = B and B = C then A = C... there are too many other pieces of the puzzle..

I personally believe that there is a creator, call them God, or Allah, or snargok from Xanadu... I don't care... But I also believe in what Science is saying, and therefore, the idea of there being both a God and a Big Bang, is not so hard for me to comprehend. I don't believe that the bible is literal though, so I completely understand how those that do believe the bible is literal will have a hard time acknowledging BB, the times do not work out.

I also believe that it doesn't matter what the other person believes, I have my faith, and if they don't understand it, oh well. If I don't understand theirs, oh well. My beliefs are for me not for them, and I hope they will think the same.

Comments on this post
Curlyben agrees: What a great quote. Thanks

Thank you Curlyben for your appreciation!
:)

The Big Bang is pretty much proven by the background radiation that comes from all points in space, & while it is not proof of a God, it is evidence of a God. Scientists believe the universe had a definite beginning in time at the Big Bang, & nothing in nature has ever been observed to simply begin to exist on it's own without cause. For lack of a better word I call that cause God. So, no, I don't believe belief in the Big Bang & belief in a God are mutually exclusive.

As for the billions of years versus several thousand years, and evolution and the bible, The Bible says that God created the earth on the fourth day. On Earth, we measure OUR days based on the sun. If he was using a different reference point to call the length of time a 'day,' the universe very well could have expanded from a big bang, over several thousand/million years, and evolution could have happened over several more thousand/million years. The next 'day' came aquatic creatures and birds, the next day land beasts and then man. This seems to follow with evolution perfectly. Then again, on the seventh day he rested. That would be a pretty long week.

To each his own, this is just FYI.

To the OP, yes, the amount of energy in the bing bang seems to suggest at least some type of influence. They can coexist peacefully.

I don't believe in od because I don't see any proof or where he could have came form or how he, us, or this world or anything is even possible. I kind of don't believe I'm really here

Many believe in a big bang instigated by god, hence explaining how an explosion could happen without any matter originally existing.
I once toyed with the idea of the big bang being part of gods birth, but I since found god and a church and learned my bible so I know that doesn't fit...

i dont believe in od because i dont see any proof or where he could have came form or how he, us, or this world or anything is even possible. i kinda dont believe im really here

Just out of curiosity,
If you don't believe you are really here then what do you believe, if anything?

Thanks

I've often thought about whether we truly exist.

ive often thought about whether or not we truly exist.

"Je pense, donc je suis" - René Descartes

Wow, I'm amazed and enlightened
Soooo... capuchin my friend... can I have a translation please? :)

"I think, therefore I am"

"Can you believe in the Big Bang theory AND a God that created the universe or are they mutually exclusive?"
Well, Say the big bang theory was true. Someone somewhere had to put something into exsistance to explode, right?

Well, Say the big bang theory was true. Someone somewhere had to put something into exsistance to explode, right?And who put that someone into existence? (continue ad nauseum)

And who put that someone into existence? (continue ad nauseum)


That's a good question, and for which I guess we will never know the answer

NO, Science and the bible are in no way connected. Religious types are knee deep in excuses because science has surpassed the Bible illusion. And they are pissed off. Consider this,, we all know the universe is Billions of years old, but the bible says it is only 6000 years old. Any more questions??

Absolutely not! The big bang happened billions of years ago. The bible says that the universe was created only 6000 years ago. You can NOT have it both ways. The religious types will disagree with this because it is absolute proof of their line of BS.
Like I have said before, read the first 3 pages of the bible and tell me this is remotely possible. I dare you,, lol

The bible says that the universe was created only 6000 years ago.
Incorrect : the Bible does not say anything about that.


The religious types will disagree with this because it is absolute proof of thier line of BS.
There are no "absolutes"!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why not, after all a while ago we all believed that the world was flat.
Belief is an amazing thing, you don't need proof to believe in anything.
After all we don't know for sure about either the Big Bang or God, yet we choose to believe.

We choose to believe because of ignorance. I will ask this, where did God live before he created the universe? In nothingness? Or a condo?

We choose to believe because of ignorance. I will ask this, where did God live before he created the universe? In nothingness? Or a condo?
Good point!!

If we BELIEVE that "God" existed before the start of our universe , than "God" has still to be outside our universe accordingly to science and logic. ( If you blow a soap bubble, you can not be inside that bubble at the same time!! )

And being outside our universe means that "God" can not have any influence at all on what happens inside this universe.

That would explain why - were the creation story "true" , God never after the creation of the universe had any contact and influence there.

Unfortunately there is not even the slightest iota of OSE for God's existence, so we better concentrate on reality, i.e. the real cause for the "origin of the universe", for which the Big Bang seems to be an excellent and valid thesis.

:rolleyes:

I honestly don't understand the logic of the last few people who have posted.

Jrwild: We don't know how old the Earth is according to science, either. Do you know how they date fossils, which has helped to determine the estimation of Earth's age? We use radioactive dating, by using carbon or other elements. Their halflives tell us how long that that fossil has been in existence, but tell me something. If a carbon's half life is around five thousand years old (if I remember correctly. I could be getting another element confused with this), how do we know that? No one can possibly know. They used computers and other technologies to tell them how that happened. But then, who told the computers this information? Someone had to program it into it, and that someone was human.
You say that the Bible says that the Earth is 6000 years old, but I have never seen dates in the Bible. Like your radioactive dating, this is just an estimation. The first three pages in the Bible, also in the book of Genesis, explains how we believe the Earth came to be. And I know your comeback will be "How can the Earth be created in seven days?". I've asked that very same question, including how could dinosaurs have existed if the earth was only here for seven days until Human was created. Like I said, there are no exact dates in the Bible. I don't know how much of the Bible you've read, but it often says that people lived to be well over 600 years old. Obviously, the times were marked completely different.
I'm not saying Creationism is the right one, but your big bang theories aren't so flawless either.

And you asked where God lives, if he doesn't live in this universe. Christians believe that he lives in HEAVEN. We don't know where that is, because if we did some idiots would try to get in and take over or something. And Christians believe that everyone that believes in him has part of him within themselves. And yes, God may not have physically walked on Earth, because he may not be a physical being, but Christians believe that he was here in spirit. But again, I'm not saying Christianity is right, this is just what I believe.


Here's my question for you: Why can't you guys just accept what is is, and quit trying to prove something that has been disproved for the past two centuries? Having belief in a higher being gives people hope that their lives won't always be so bad. Why do scientist want to prove that a higher being, someone who brings so much happiness to people just by that belief, doesn't exist? If you and other people believe that, that's fine if your happy with that. But why do they force that upon us in the classroom, when Christians aren't allowed to talk about Creationism in the classroom?

And I wasn't trying to lecture or preach to you at all. I was merely trying to show how both theories of how the Earth began aren't so flawless.

"Can you believe in the Big Bang theory AND a God that created the universe or are they mutually exclusive?"
Yes you can BELIEVE in "God".
Yes you BELIEVE in the Big Bang.

However :

In "God" you can ONLY believe. There is no scientific evidence for the existence of "God".
In the Big Bang you can believe, but you can also check, test, and accept the scientific data supporting the Objective Supported Evidence (OSE) for the Big Bang.

Issues like evolution and the origin of the universe are slowly but surely getting backed-up better and better with scientific evidence.

But issues like the existence of "God" will always remain in the field of BELIEF and FAITH.


:)

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.

The scientist came up of the idea of BigBang 40-50 years ago, that everything in universe was one piece, and then a big bang occurred and everything separated to form earth and every other thing in universe.
Allah says in qur'an 1400 years ago, in surah Ambiya, Chapter 4: Verse 30;
"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

May Allah give you hidaya

Dear satswid :

that is not entirely correct!

The cosmological model of the universe that is now referred to as the "Big Bang" refers to the model of the universe that expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

It was Edwin Hubble who discovered in 1929 that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts, indicating that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point : the farther away, the higher their apparent velocity.

It was Georges Lemaître who proposed this expansion model, and it was Fred Hoyle who is credited with coining the phrase 'Big Bang' in a 1949 radio broadcast, although the term "Big Bang" itself was months earlier phrased by a couple of journalists in a publication.

===

By reversing the noted expansion, there can only be one conclusion : the universe started some 13 billion years ago from a single point. There was no actual "Bang", as for that sound is required, and sound requires gas molecules , something not available in one single point.

There was a sudden and very fast expansion. A newer theory includes a short but extremely fast "inflation" of time/space , faster than lightspeed. And yes : that is possible !
Science has still to explain what caused that expansion. But it took place, and is backed-up and supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation.

===

It took around 9 - 10 Billion years before in one of the 100's of billions of galaxies with each hundreds of billions of stars a gas cloud collapsed into several stars, one of these stars being our sun, complete with a set of planets, mini-planets, planetoids, comets, and asteroids, including what we call today planet "earth".

So when "everything" separated after the "Big Bang" it was not to form "earth and every other thing in universe".
First to form was matter itself. And all that matter many hundreds of million years later condensed into all these gasclouds that produced these hundreds of billions of galaxies. Earth came much, much later...

:)

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.

Every word of Noble Quran is nothing but the truth. Allah said it 1400 yrs ago, which scientist came to know, yesterday

Dear satswid :

that is not entirely correct!

The cosmological model of the universe that is now refered to as the "Big Bang" refers to the model of the universe that expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

It was Edwin Hubble who discovered in 1929 that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts, indicating that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point : the farther away, the higher their apparent velocity.

It was Georges Lemaître who proposed this expansion model, and it was Fred Hoyle who is credited with coining the phrase 'Big Bang' in a 1949 radio broadcast, although the term "Big Bang" itself was months earlier phrased by a couple of journalists in a publication.

===

By reversing the noted expansion, there can only be one conclusion : the universe started some 13 billion years ago from a single point. There was no actual "Bang", as for that sound is required, and sound requires gas molecules , something not available in one single point.

There was a sudden and very fast expansion. A newer theory includes a short but extremely fast "inflation" of time/space , faster than lightspeed. And yes : that is possible !
Science has still to explain what caused that expansion. But it took place, and is backed-up and supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation.

===

It took around 9 - 10 Billion years before in one of the 100's of billions of galaxies with each hundreds of billions of stars a gas cloud collapsed into several stars, one of these stars being our sun, complete with a set of planets, mini-planets, planetoids, comets, and asteroids, including what we call today planet "earth".

So when "everything" separated after the "Big Bang" it was not to form "earth and every other thing in universe".
First to form was matter itself. And all that matter many hundreds of million years later condensed into all these gasclouds that produced these hundreds of billions of galaxies. Earth came much, much later ....

:)

.

.


Dear brother Credendovidis;

Thank you for your scientifically explained answer

I can understand that very much of your answer may be correct. But lets not forget that it a "Theory". Have you ever heard of anything like "The fact of Big Bang"? The scientist cannot 100% prove anything related to creation.

I know that you may not believe in God. If you read my answer, I quoted a verse from Holy Quran, which says

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

Now, can any human being write any book and keep it in front of the world and say that "you dont know and i do"?

I ask you, if you know anything about the world, which you know and the entire world don't know.

I know that your answer will be definitely NO.

So,who can write such a thing? its up to to you now to think.

Regarding your answer, if you go in past and explain your theory to the people 1400 yrs ago, will they be able to understand your answer, or Allah almighty's answer which I quoted.

Thank you again brother
May allah give you hidaya

The Bible does not prove the age of the earth.
It does not state how long humans have existed.
Christians believe that the earth and people were created only 6000 years ago because following the genealogy back in the Bible you come up with 6000 years. I believe the earth could be older but humans were created by God 6000 years with Adam and Eve.

Dear brother Credendovidis;

Thank you for your scientifically explained answer

I can understand that very much of your answer may be correct. But lets not forget that it a "Theory". Have you ever heard of anything like "The fact of Big Bang"?. The scientist cannot 100% proove anything related to creation.

I know that you may not believe in God. If you read my answer, i quoted a verse from Holy Quran, which says

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

Now, can any human being write any book and keep it in front of the world and say that "you dont know and i do"??

I ask you, if you know anything about the world, which you know and the entire world dont know.

I know that your answer will be definately NO.

So,who can write such a thing?, its upto to you now to think.

Regarding your answer, if you go in past and explain your theory to the people 1400 yrs ago, will they be able to understand your answer, or Allah almighty's answer which i quoted.

Thank you again brother
May allah give you hidaya

I suggest you check the definition of scientific theory - it is something different from what you think it is. A Theory is an explanation that descruibes how all available evidence came to be. It is held in a somewhat higher regard than a mere fact.

How is scientific theory held as somewhat higher regard than mere fact?
If I remember correctly even Cred said a scientific theory is nothing more than a theory and not fact.
How can a scientific theory be higher regard than fact?
Can you give an example or two of theories (other than evolution) that are somewhat higher regard than fact?

How is scientific theory held as somewhat higher regard than mere fact?
If I remember correctly even Cred said a scientific theory is nothing more than a theory and not fact.
How can a scientific theory be higher regard than fact?
Can you give an example or two of theories (other than evolution) that are somewhat higher regard than fact?

Well, yes, all of them. General relativity, cell theory, quantum field theory, etcetc. A scientific theory is something that is the best explanation for all of the facts. It consolidates many facts and links them together to explain the world around us. A mere fact pales in comparison.