Hi everyone,

I very much need advice on a specific question as soon as possible. I have spent the last week browsing many threads on this site and find that it is the only place to turn to get level-headed perspectives on these things. However, after all my browsing, I haven't found a consensus on one question.

Here's my situation: for seven months, my girlfriend and I (she's 30, I'm 27) have been in a long-distance relationship that flowed out of a friendship while we were in the same city. We've had a couple of big fights and quite a few little fights, but generally have an amazing time when we're together and both love each other. She's an alpha female, the kind who in her past would definitely be the one picking the guy up at the bar, not vice versa. This, of course, has led to commitment issues in the past which she's told me about. But she genuinely seemed to care about making this one work, and expressed that she had feelings for me that she hadn't felt before for anyone.

A week and a half ago, I woke up to an early weekend phone call where she asked how my night had been and then moved right to a "I have to say I'm having serious doubts about our relationship" discussion. She said she felt a bit numb, confused about life (she's finishing her last few weeks as an articling student at a busy law firm) and unsure whether relationships in general are meant for her. This is also a girl with family issues (she only fully trusts her sister) and diagnosed with an untreatable organ disease a few years ago that may mean she only has a decade or so left to live. I responded poorly - got anxious, asked her if she still loved me, whether she was still attracted to me, whether she thought her feelings were going to change. I know, uuuuugh, especially after browsing this site. I then said "I'll send you your stuff, please don't contact me again" and hung up. She sent me an email ten minutes later saying "I didn't mean to have that conversation...I felt like you were pushing me to a resolution that might not be the right one...I may try to come to see you tonight or tomorrow." I responded that I was upset, and that if she wanted to come down to work it out, I'm not happy, but I will, but if she's coming down to break up in person to feel better, don't bother. She replied that perhaps she shouldn't come down, how bad she felt, so on, she needs time to think, but that I could call her later to talk if I wanted. I didn't respond for two days. I then wrote her that I was thinking about her, and that we should talk. She responded that she was sick to her stomach over it and definitely wanted to talk - two days later. Anyway, the call started well but she then said she wanted a break until I was in town in a few weeks to take my sister to a concert for her birthday. This is coincidentally the same weekend she finds out if she gets hired back by her firm. She said that we could decide then if we should get back together, but she wasn't sure at this point. I suggested we stay together, I would give her the space she needed until then, and then we would meet to see if we could work things out. She was insistent that it be a full break until then, as she wanted things to be "simpler" for a while and needed a few weeks away. When I clarified about seeing other people, she was ambiguous, saying it was "highly unlikely" and that "there's a difference between being open to seeing other people and wanting to see other people." Don't ask me how to translate that. She said that she wasn't looking to see other people and that she would miss me and still loved me and all that jazz. Four days went by, I went through a lot of pain, then finally I think I did the right thing. I sent her her stuff by mail with a note that said "I now understand that this is over. And I don't need the breakup 'process' that you've described going through in the past. Good luck with hirebacks, and whatever else life holds for you." Btw, the "process" is something she's described using to dump guys in the past. It obviously felt like I was getting the same treatment.

She emailed me the next day (this morning) to say that she got my package, thanked me, and said my note left it unclear whether I wanted to see her the weekend I'm in town. She asked "could I let her know" and "I would like to see you." I haven't responded.

From browsing this site, I know that the key things with a break are: Give her the space she asks for. No contact for 2 months. You can't keep someone who doesn't want to keep you/be kept.

However, my big question for everyone (sorry this post is so long) is: when do you know that she definitely wants you back? What kinds of things does she have to say/do for you to break the no-contact rule and return her calls and give her a chance to tell you she wants you back? Some people have said she has to be beating down your door - what do people think that means exactly? I don't want to give her another opportunity to let me down on her terms, but I don't want to pass up an opportunity to resolve this. Is her emailing me to say "I would to like to see you" when I'm in town enough? Should I respond "What specifically would you like to see me about?" or just literally ignore her until she elevates the intensity of her desire to see me?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Maybe give it another week and see if she emails again.

Im 28 had a 22 yold girlfriend we were together for 3 years and she wanted a break, we had a break for two weeks were still talking thoiugh and then we were back on. I did not discuss anything with her about the relationship it just seemed to continue. 6 months later she did the same thing. I now know once they want a break they are losing the love its slowly dwindleing away and it may never be the same. I got my girlfriend back and for a few months she was so in love but then again bang gone and now she's gone for good. A break can be OK but I believe you need tyo get her keener and even if this does happen it probably still won't work sorry to say but she will probably once again fall back into her not to sure routine and will dump you again down the line. I hope it woorks out for you but many people who have been dumped and got there exs back have been dumped again in a shoprt amount of time...

You don't have to wait until she knocks down your door but you do have to let her decide and make it stick. By that I mean that you can't be calling her every other day and asking if she's ready. That's just not going to work.

So back off and let her do her thing. If she calls you ignore it. If she wants to talk to you bad enough make her work for it. Make her call several times. Then when she talks to you make it short. Make her realize you won't always be there for her.

Simple, you don't chase!

Thanks a lot for the advice, guys. I've had a tough time deciding whether to reply, especially because she asked specific questions ("should I mail your stuff back, too?" "do you still want to see each you're in town? i would like to see you."). I understand why you have to go no contact (ie not to push her away forever by looking like you're chasing) but it still is hard to apply the NC rule in practice because it's hard to know how much reaching out from her is enough for you to know that maybe she's reconsidered. In other words, where the line is between a girl who just wants to know you're there as backup if she's met a new guy or a girl or who just feels guilty and wants to know you don't hate her so she feels better/less guilty and a girl who genuinely realizes it was a mistake to break up and wants to try again. I know that this kind of talk sounds like I'm living in the movies, and mckenzie, I appreciate the lessons you learned from your story about this being a cycle after it happens once, but a tiny part of me thinks that maybe it's possible to start over and give it another shot, especially when you've found someone you love and who supposedly loves you, which is rare (especially for me). Maybe that's just me not facing the hard cold reality of the situation, but I still wonder what a girl has to do specifically for the guy to know that it's worth calling back or picking up the phone or answering an email, even considering that he risks getting punched in the gut even harder. Hope that makes some sense.

You don't have to wait until she knocks down your door but you do have to let her decide and make it stick. By that I mean that you can't be calling her every other day and asking if she's ready. That's just not going to work.

So back off and let her do her thing. If she calls you ignore it. If she wants to talk to you bad enough make her work for it. Make her call several times. Then when she talks to you make it short. Make her realize you won't always be there for her.

I want to know, she may get the feeling that he's no more interested, though he actually is... so by ignoring coupla times, u think she would still chase... and that the relationship can be mended by ignoring... at all?

If the relationship could be mended, you would never have broken up in the first place. Two people who love each other equally do not break up, but work together to overcome whatever obstacles are before them. A break up is always when one partner has a change of heart, for whatever reason and wants to change. No contact, and that's what's needed here give you the chance to get over the intense emotions, and see things in a clear and realistic way. We owe it to ourselves to heal ,and get healthy. I am still waiting for some one to get an ex back, and not be confused or break up again over whatever reason. Accept that its over, and move on.

I want to know, she may get the feeling that he's no more interested, though he actually is...so by ignoring coupla times, u think she would still chase....and that the relationship can be mended by ignoring......at all??

This is a great question. Remember SHE told him that she wasn't sure about the relationship. He didn't see this coming. Given this situation he should do exactly as she asks and no less. If she wants a break then she's got to live with it for awhile. See the problem is she might have said that, then still expected him to stick around as an emotional sponge, or friend, or booty call, or whatever else. But by doing that to him she is disrespecting him, and her own request for a break. What she is essentially asking for is a free ride to use him.

Well since she asked for the break it's up to him to teach her that he is to be respected and he respects her wishes by following through. If she suddenly realizes that she made a mistake, that's not his problem. He was fine with the relationship until she dumped him. And lets be honest, asking for a break is dumping someone without the emotional drop off and problems that come with saying that. Plus a break keeps him at arms bay in case she needs his ear for all her problems.

Well, if she truly values him and what he brings to her life then after she calls for the break she will go out of her way to get him back. I've had this happen twice to me, and this was before I was even aware of sites like this and the "rules." But both times they broke up with me, and more through my bitterness then my smarts I kept them away when they came back. But by being so guarded they tried and put forth an effort to get me. Now the truth be told, it never worked out after that and it was different.

I can't say if it would be different for him or not but if she misses him bad enough, she'll find a way to contact him.

Thanks for the further advice, guys - I ended up emailing her the next day, but before you roll your eyes and shake your head, I made it very emotionally neutral and I had to because I need my stuff back. I just wrote: "I don't think that seeing each other anymore is a good idea. As for mailing my stuff back, it would be appreciated." She wrote back: "OK. I will put your stuff in the mail ASAP. If you change your mind, the offer is still open on my end, for us to see each other." That I will not respond to. I'm going down for my sister's birthday in a couple of weekends (same city), but I'll have to stay strong and not go for the meeting she's proposed. I wondered for a second whether I should see how her hirebacks go (same weekend as I'm coming in, and a big deal for her) but I re-read the great advice (especially a couple things said by chuff and talaniman) and I think that would be stupid. Any advice on where to go from here or whether I'm on the right track would be appreciated.

As long as your on the path to healing and getting healthy your doing all right. If you can give us an update as to how your dealing with things.

Thanks for the response talaniman. I'm dealing a bit better, but still wake up to sort of a panic and tightness in my chest, reliving the realization that it's over each time I wake up.

I guess the most frustrating thing (and perhaps it's just me not facing reality) is that the no-contact rule seems to be just another way of saying that it is impossible to repair a broken relationship. Because, obviously, I can't get back together with her if I don't return her calls/emails from now until the day I die. And that was my original question - has anyone encountered ANY set of circumstances where a guy is disciplined and ignores her for A WHILE (let's say 1-3 months) and something happens that I should look out for to indicate that it's worth taking a risk and giving it another shot?

I know that I can't get over her, talaniman, until I accept that I've lost her and that she's gone forever and just heal, but are there any exceptional circumstances that you think present a gray area on whether it's OK to try again? Remember that this is a girl I fell deeply in love with, and I've not new to the dating game - I know the odds of feeling this kind of love again are not high - not to be cynical, but I think it's likely true in my case.

And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.

Don't mean to seem like I'm not getting the point, just some unanswered questions.

Thanks.

Don't hold onto false hope my friend as everyone does. Any little thing and you latch on like a parasite. NOT GOOD! NOT ATTRACTIVE!

You must have a life, you must enjoy yourself, try new things, go on holiday, travel, get a new passion in your life, try changing any routines you have, go out and party, change yourself if possible for the better :P This is far more attractive.

You need time to work on yourself before reconciliation of any sort of light contact and by the way it should probably be on her behalf not yours. If she wants to meet up give it at least a few months before and keep it cool and light + SLOW.

clarityseeker]Thanks for the response talaniman. I'm dealing a bit better, but still wake up to sort of a panic and tightness in my chest, reliving the realization that it's over each time I wake up.
Normal and to be expected as everything is still fresh and emotions are high.


I guess the most frustrating thing (and perhaps it's just me not facing reality) is that the no-contact rule seems to be just another way of saying that it is impossible to repair a broken relationship. Because, obviously, I can't get back together with her if I don't return her calls/emails from now until the day I die.
Frustrating is an understatement and trust me I know how hard a pill no contact is to swallow, very first hand. Let me tell you this though and you can take it to the bank, You can't fix this relationship with no help. IT TAKES YOU BOTH. No Contact only is the way to go until you get healthy enough to see things realistically and make decisions based on facts not emotions.

And that was my original question - has anyone encountered ANY set of circumstances where a guy is disciplined and ignores her for A WHILE (let's say 1-3 months)
This forum is full of them, it helps if you go thru the forum and just click on the name and view profile and then click on Questions asked by..............


And something happens that I should look out for to indicate that it's worth taking a risk and giving it another shot?
When your healthy and she calls and wants to try to make it work and that's what you want. Honestly most of us see things different when we ind our health, and would rather move forward and not back, Go figure.



I know that I can't get over her, talaniman, until I accept that I've lost her and that she's gone forever and just heal,
No one knows about forever but acceptance is a strong step toward healing.

but are there any exceptional circumstances that you think present a gray area on whether it's OK to try again? If your both healthy and are willing to work on solving your problems to the benefit of you both.


Remember that this is a girl I fell deeply in love with, and I've not new to the dating game - I know the odds of feeling this kind of love again are not high - not to be cynical, but I think it's likely true in my case.
I understand you feeling like that now, but you can't know what life has in store for you. Maybe you can't see it at the moment, but those are your feelings, and not your common sense talking. I hope you see how easily our feelings color how we perceive things. It can make things appear real to you but it isn't.


And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.
If she calls and wants to meet, why not just don't expect the world to change, or react like a fool, or with malice. Be a gentleman. Would I call???I would not, but you are not me. If you do, be brief, friendly and sociable. Tell no lies, and make no promises.


Don't mean to seem like I'm not getting the point, just some unanswered questions.
If you took the time to ask, I will answer, and try to be honest. If I don't know the answer, I guess we both will have to look for it LOL


Thanks
Anytime :)

Quote:

And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.


If she calls and wants to meet, why not just don't expect the world to change, or react like a fool, or with malice. Be a gentleman. Would I call???I would not, but you are not me. If you do, be brief, friendly and sociable. Tell no lies, and make no promises.

Thanks for the awesome breakdown, talaniman - it helps to get continually shaken by the shoulders in times like these. And also thanks jiser for the words on false hope and taking it slow if it somehow revives.

The only thing that leaves me still confused is - well, I should probably provide a bit more detail on the last communications and try to fit it into the no-contact rule and how it comes off. Basically, when she asked for the break, she said why don't we meet in a few weeks when I'm coincidentally in town for my sister's birthday and talk about whether we can get back together, but she wasn't sure at that point. I mailed her her stuff four days later with a note that said: "I understand this is over. And I don't need the breakup 'process' that you've described going through in the past. Good luck with hirebacks, and whatever else life holds for you." She got her stuff in the mail, sent me an email that basically said "Thanks for my stuff - I can mail you your stuff too if you like. Your note left it unclear whether you still want to meet that weekend you're in town. Could you let me know - I would like to see you." I replied a day later with: "I don't think that seeing each other anymore is a good idea. As for mailing my stuff back, it would be appreciated." To which she replied a day later: "OK. I will mail your stuff back ASAP. If you change your mind, the offer is still open, for us to see each other."

I know there's no right answer here, but talaniman, if I ignore her up until and throughout that weekend (which is two weekends from now) I'm consistent with my message from my note/email that "I'm not running back to you/letting you (perhaps) let me down gently on your terms so you feel better." But I come off as malicious, as you put it, for not even hearing what she has to say or asking about something that has been central to her life while we were together (getting hired back). If I change my mind and agree to meet her and ask her about hirebacks, even if I'm cool and relaxed and funny and whatever, it reeks of being fake and lacking integrity, because, as jiser says, it's like I'm a parasite latching on when she says she's there to talk, and I might feel used as friend material, which I'm sure would feel even worse. And it makes my notes and email, which were words of strength, appear meaningless. Anyway, perhaps overanalyzing, but it all comes down to a simple decision - accept her offer to meet when I'm there/ask her about hirebacks/be the "gentleman" OR ignore the offer/stick with no contact/perhaps appear malicious and petty but at least stay consistent with my earlier note/email. Any thoughts on this long-winded dilemma would be appreciated.

If she sees it as malicious so what? Its not about her or how she feels, its about you and what you want to do. As I pointed out I wouldn't go if I felt like I couldn't handle it with dignity.
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AskMen.com - Get back together (http://ca.askmen.com/dating/dating_top_ten/2_dating_list.html)

Reading stuff like the above is part of what makes me so confused about whether to accept the offer to see her. Although the guy who wrote it probably hasn't read any of the posts on this site. Whether it does or doesn't come off as malicious to ignore her, all I know is that I would be willing to make the effort to get back together if she was. And her offer to meet in a couple of weeks could be a critical window to that potentially happening. At the same time, it's impossible to find out if she wants that unless she explicitly raises it, because I can't be the one doing the asking or I'll look needy. So I guess it comes down to whether to meet up, not raise it myself, and see if she does. Might lead to clarity, might lead to further frustration and going back to square one.

About a week ago, she emailed me apologizing for not mailing my stuff back sooner, saying she'd barely had a moment to breathe with work and hoping I understand. Then went on to say it would be good to chat the weekend I'm in (to remind, this has been a long-distance deal), preferably face-to-face, perhaps coffee, ended by saying she hoped I knew she missed me. I responded a few hours later with coffee works, as long as you're buying, to try to keep things light. To which she replied - sure, you say when. I didn't respond, a few hours later she emails that she's unclear when we're meeting, and I respond that we can chat the weekend I'm in town. No response after that. Tomorrow is the day she finds out if she's hired back by the firm she's working for and I'm taking my sister to a concert for her birthday. Any advice on how to handle this weekend, considering I won't be back there for a while? I feel like I need to find out what she's thinking, but don't want to go back to square one of getting over her with the "let's just be friends" talk. Is it wrong to ask her by email/phone what she wants to chat about, or is that just focusing too much on my needs and not hers? Anyway, quite confused on how to handle it, any advice would be appreciated.

I think you are way to focused on her needs and not yours. In fact if she wants to talk to you I think you should make her do all the contacting of you. Don't contact her at all for anything. I get the feeling this is some test to see when you will call and meet with her. I wouldn't call her at all and if she doesn't call you skip meeting with her. I think she's expecting you to be at her beck and call whenever she wants you to be. I would make sure she gets the message you are worth more then that and she will have to come to you, not you go to her or even a 50/50 split. This whole thing seems to be more about her then it does you and she lost that right when she broke up.

Thanks guys - this sounds like good advice. I won't be the one to contact her, although I was vague a week ago about meeting this weekend - didn't set a time or place. But I hear what you're saying about her needing to make the effort here. I guess if she contacts me I'll meet her and see what she has to say (but only once, just to know for sure and not be left wondering with false hope), otherwise I'll just let the weekend pass and know that it didn't matter enough to her to make the effort.

The complicating factor here is the long-distance thing. I've read a lot of stories here about how if there's any chance of things working out after a break, you need to spend the first meeting with no relationship talk, just being light and fun and like you were when you first met, no pressure. If we do meet, it's hard to take it as slow as I'd like and do that because I don't know when I'll be in there next, and to make a special trip (even though family is there) might not happen for quite a while. In other words, it's hard not to need an answer. I almost want to just email and ask what she wants to talk about, but know that may make things worse.

Something in my gut tells me I'm still way off here on how I'm approaching this, but I can't seem to pin down exactly what it is. If there's something you see that I'm missing here, please let me know. I haven't been thinking very clearly lately - everything seemed fine a week ago, and then the fog set in again.

Another thing is that she finds out tomorrow whether she is hired back to the firm she's been working at (in other words, whether she keeps her job there). She's been slaving at this place through our whole relationship (seven months) and for me not to call to at least ask about that would basically be a slap in her face. Not that she didn't slap me in the face by asking for the break during these last few weeks of her work stuff, but if I want this to work out, which I do, not calling would pretty much ice it I think. Am I right on this?

You are going about this the right way. But let me tell you now talking about this crap about Oh I feel bad cause I want to tell her about her job or whatever!!

WAKE UP CHAMP SHE DUMPED YOU SHE Didn't THINK TWICE ABOUT HOW GREAT A GUY SHE HAD AND HOW YOU WERE INTERESTED IN HER LIFE!!

SHE Didn't CARE LESS!!

WHO CARES ABOUT THE GOD DAM JOB AND THE ONLY REASON YOU WOULD BE THINKING THIS IS CAUSE YOUR NOT THINKING STRAIGH AND YOUR NOT PUTTING YOURSELF FIRST < THINKING AND CONGRATULATING HER SOUNDS LIKE THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE YOU THINK SOMEWHERE IN THE BACK OPF YOUR MIND LIKE EVERY OTHER GUY HERE AND MYSELF THOUGHT< WHEN IN THIS SITUATION I WANT HER TO STILL THINK I CARE AND WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER THIS WAS A BIG THING!! \

Well that's history champ. You have to look back to when you first met you didn't worry about that so don't worry about it now.

The idea of winning her back is great and this can be done but you must pretty much do what sound wrong.You have to do the opposite of what sounds right

Like most guiys think buy flowers give gifts suck up ntell her I'm sorry WRONG!!

You've done great so far and really if you had a clear head at the moment you would think like this!!

Imagine yuou new this girl and you liked her and you gave her your number and wondered if she liked you. What do you do , you wait for her to call cause hell if she isn't calling she doesn't want you.

If you met a chick when you were out and she gave yuou her number and you wernt interested you wouldn't call, but if you really liked her you would call.

Well same goes for the ex if she is interested she will call.

Ive red your posts and I thoink you are a huge chance. The bit where she said well the offer is still there that is a HUGE signal if she was not interested she would never have said that. One thing that has helped you though is acting like you arte not that keen! The idea here does not mean you have to pretend you are not keen but what you should be doing is showing that you could be keen but you are not the type of guy who lets a girl take a break if you know what I mean she chas to realise that taking a break from you means she is losing you and your not the type to go back your to strong for that you have other options you know what yuou want in life and she's missing out your moving forward any passengers want to jump off the train they don't just jump back on!!

This is the idesa you don't have to show you don't like her you can still like her but just not that keen to resume the relationship, your in charge you if she wants to get back on the train she has to work hard show you why she should be back on boartd

]YOU MAKE THIS DIFFICULT BY USING HER WORDS AGAINST HER, TELL HER YOUR NOT SURE IF THINGS WORK OUT AFTER BREAKS YOU Don't THINK THGEY DO!! TELL HER YOUR THINKING ABVOUT IT BUT NEED SOME TIME!! JUSTY LIKE SHE TOLD YOU
!! HAHAHA LOOK Who's GIVING WHO TIME NOW. SHE WILL CALL AGAIN AND AGAIN ASKING TO CATCH UP THEN YOU CAN CATCH UP AND TELL HER YUOUR STILL UNSURE BUT WILLING TO GIVE IT A GO!! TAKE IT SLKOW UR IN CONTROL NOW
You've GOT A 95% CHANCE HERE I THINK YOUR BACK IN AND IM NORMALLY RIGHT Haven't SEEN THIS FOR A LONG TIME. Don't BLOW IT Don't CALL AT ALL. IF SHE WANTS U SHE WILL CALL. AND I KNOW SHE WILL. KEEP US POSTED...

Another thing is that she finds out tomorrow whether she is hired back to the firm she's been working at (in other words, whether she keeps her job there). She's been slaving at this place through our whole relationship (seven months) and for me not to call to at least ask about that would basically be a slap in her face. Not that she didn't slap me in the face by asking for the break during these last few weeks of her work stuff, but if I want this to work out, which I do, not calling would pretty much ice it I think. Am I right on this?

No you are wrong. Completely wrong. If she gets the job and wants to tell you then let her call you. That's her news to share, not yours to seek out. If she wanted you to call and congradulate her then she shouldn't have dumped you.

Here's the problem. Your being such a nice guy that even when she does wrong by you that you just continue to accept it. That's bad enough but you make it worse and continue trying to be nice to appease her some more. Ask yourself this, how is being the nice guy working for you? Other then meeting all us cool people being the nice guy, always appeasing her hasn't done you one favor. She takes your kindness and turns it back around on you to get her way.

So you've never laid the boundaries down with her by letting her know that using you and your kindness is not acceptable. Those boundaries, or lack there of, are being taken advantage of and quite honestly used by her to get what she wants out of you. Even her text messages about meeting this weekend were all about control and emotional using. She strung you along until you asked where you were going... in other words until she knew that you couldn't resist and would be right there waiting. When she had you there she then left, even in the world of text messaging. And what did that do? It confused you and left you wondering. In other words she emotionally used and controlled you.

Calling her is out of the question. She dumped you. She is still trying to emotionally string you along. If she wants you back make her come to you for once.

PERFECT chuff I WISH MORE PEOPLE WOULD LISTEN IF YOU GET DUMPED THE EX ALWAYS WANTS to string you along to help with there motions. Some exs do not do this delibeately they think well I will still chat and benice an maybe they feel a bit guilty and don't under estimate that just because they dumped you they can still be missing you and hving second thoughts this is for sure. Especially in a long reltionship they are very attached they don't just let go of that. You must show that you don't stand for any of this and this is doneby simply not talking to gher. Why ould you want to associate with someone who goes out with youand then says I don't want you any more they used you!! TNATS RIGHT USED YOU!! Didn't CARE WHY GO OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE IF THEY ARE GOINGTO USE YOU!!

Imagine you went out and some bloke punched you in the head would you try and talk to I'm and be mates with him!! Hell no!! \

YET SHE GIVES YOU ABLOW TO THE HEART AND YOURVE KNOWN HER MUCH LONGER THAN THAT BLOKE WHO BELTED YOUIN THE HEAD ANDYOU ARE WILLING TO TALK TO HER. WHYWOULD ANYONE WANT TO TALK TO SOMEONE LIKE THAT!! SIMPLE ONE REASON THEY ARE THINKING WITH THERE HEART NOT THERE MIND.. That's WHY AFTER A WHILE PEOPLE SAY I can't BELIEVE HER SHE BROKE MY HEART WHY WAS I STILL FRIENDS WITH SUCH A MEAN PERSON. YOU Wouldn't CHOOSE TO HANG OUT WITH SOMEONE WHO TREATS PEOPLE LIKE THIS SO WHY STICK AROUND.. IFYOU GET PUNCHED IN THE HEAD YOU WOULD EXPECT AN APOLOGY Wouldn't YOU WELL That's WHAT YOU SHOULD EXPECT FROPM HER AN APOLOGY AND HER BEGGING TO COME BCK!!

I have a question for you? After 7 months do you honest feel you have made progress towards your own happiness? If so why?

Hey, first of all, thank you to all those who replied for the candor. It gives me a better road map of how to approach this weekend. A lot of how to approach this is tough to wrap my head around at the moment. I can't deny that I'm madly in love with this girl, which doesn't make things any easier, because the emotions are just polluting my brain and common sense. But it's hard to figure out what's what.

Tal - that's a really good question that I hadn't asked myself. Part of the problem in answering it is figuring out what happiness means for me, or for anyone on here. I don't think of happiness as some destination, but a state of mind (definitely ripping someone off there, but I agree with the thought). And when I was with her, she definitely made me feel happy about 90 percent of the time. Really happy. Happier than I'd ever felt, actually, serious exhilaration. She was just a really fun, smart, beautiful, one-of-a-kind person. And she seemed really happy with me, both by what she said and did. And there were some arguments and a couple of times where she said things that should have made me wonder, but it still surprises me that she would do this. Who knows, could be another guy, her problems with her mom and brother, her disease, I guess I'm facing her demons, and not just her. But to answer your question instead of rant - yes, I think I was progressing towards a greater sense of happiness with her (until this happened). And I think that because she didn't demand anything of me or to change in any way. Maybe I couldn't handle that much freedom, which sounds bizarre to say, and pushed for things to be a little closer and pushed her away. She always said she was hyper-sensitive to that kind of stuff, but I lost self-control a few times.

Chuff - thanks for the brutally frank guidance and laying out some really sensible reasons I shouldn't contact her this weekend, no matter how much I will be tempted to if I don't hear from her (and I will be). Anyway, I'll replay your words in my head if the tempation is there. I do need to set some boundaries and focus more on my needs as well, even when in such a vulnerable position. If anything, to strengthen my position in relation to her.

And Mac - wow, I've read your posts right from the beginning and I really trust your voice as someone who's still got a bit of anger over the pattern of how this stuff seems to go down, but who's learned a lot of lessons about what to do differently. To be honest, you make me realize that I should be quite a bit angry about this and how she's treated me. Which helps me to battle through the soft wussy emotions that chuff talked about that seem to keep creeping in on how to handle this. And also make me realize that this isn't necessarily all over as long as I handle it right with no mistakes.

Thanks again guys - you've really helped me a lot through this. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Well, another twist - got a phone call from my dad, who works at the same place as her, that she did get hired back and that he sent her a brief email congratulating her.

So now she's going to know that I know. Not that that necessarily changes any advice I'd get from you guys. Is it still best to wait to hear from her? Or should I send a brief email saying congratulations but nothing about meeting up?

Well, another twist - got a phone call from my dad, who works at the same place as her, that she did get hired back and that he sent her a brief email congratulating her.

So now she's going to know that I know. Not that that necessarily changes any advice I'd get from you guys. Is it still best to wait to hear from her? Or should I send a brief email saying congratulations but nothing about meeting up?

I like you. I really do. You're a good person. But you are incredibly difficult listener.

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

She or her job or her life are not your problem. You do nothing... absolutely nothing. When she contacts you, then you do nothing some more. Nothing. This is exactly why you got dumped. You are so hung up on her that you can't see the bigger picture that she controls you emotionally. Is it going to be tough. Hell yeah it is. We've all been there. There is not twist.

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

Your priority is you. Not her. YOU. I'm going to repeat this...

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

CONTACT HER!........nope, I'm lying DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

DO NOT CONTACT HER!

Clarity, I'm not trying to sound inconciderate but the doctors said she has about a decade to live. I no it's hard to let go but if you get back together what happens in a decade when she passes on. It's going to be just that more difficult later in life. I know if I was still with my ex and she told me this I would be by her side until the end. You have a chance to move on. Then maybe one day be friends.

OK Chuff, that even made me laugh. So should I contact her? No, just kidding.

This is my absolute last question Chuff - I can't figure out how to quote in isolation but you said "When she contacts you, you do nothing some more." So you're saying that I should literally ignore her through this weekend that we're in the same town, even if she leaves messages saying how much she wants to meet up? Because I might not be back for a while, and I can't deny that I would meet. But I totally will follow your advice to the letter NOT to be the one to initiate it. If I don't her, I will let the weekend pass and fly home. My ONLY question is whether you think, considering the circumstances that I'm in town and don't know when I'll be "naturally" back, that I should return her call IF she calls and leaves a message saying "I would really like to meet up and chat etc etc." I'm sorry if I appear to be a bad listener - I really am listening very intently to everything that's being said - just would like to know your advice on that one thing. Thanks.

OK Chuff, that even made me laugh. So should I contact her? No, just kidding.

Good, I hope I finally made my point. I think I repeated it and it wasn't sticking.


This is my absolute last question Chuff -

Before I answer I should say ask as many questions as you want. But you have to be prepared for the answers your going to get which may not be the ones you have to hear. I think you actually realize that but you are having a difficult time accepting it.


I can't figure out how to quote in isolation but you said "When she contacts you, you do nothing some more." So you're saying that I should literally ignore her through this weekend that we're in the same town, even if she leaves messages saying how much she wants to meet up?

I'm saying that if she calls you and your sleeping then when you wake up DO NOT call her back. If she wants you bad enough then she'll call again. She's testing you and she's doing it on purpose without a care in the world for you. She also thinks that you will always be there... so I'm suggesting you don't always be there.

Now if you walking down the street and she calls you can answer the phone. She will ask you something like "Are we still on for that get together this weekend" and your answer should NOT be "of course" or "I've been waiting for you to call."

Your answer should be "Oh I'm glad you called to remind me, I almost forgot." So you are still saying yes but you also letting her know that she is NOT a priority. Then respond with "Where are you taking me?"

Do you see the difference between what you doing, saying, and acting like vs. what I'm suggesting? It gives you some control and lets her know that you are not going to play her emotional games and they are not worth the time to you.



Because I might not be back for a while, and I can't deny that I would meet. But I totally will follow your advice to the letter NOT to be the one to initiate it.

Meeting is okay in this situation but as I've addressed above make her work for it. Remember she dumped you and you can use all the excuses about not enough time or work or school or distance but at the end of the day she purposely gave up her right to have you be nice to her and be as considerate as you are. If she didn't appreciate all that you brought to her when she had it then maybe, just maybe she does now. If she does though you can't just give yourself back to her with her in control. It will only set up more pain in the future because you will have told her via your actions that you can be taken advantage of and she is allowed to do it. No woman, not even her is worth that. You might not agree with me now but I assure you if the situation was reversed and you were giving me advice you'd see this clear as day. That's the advantage to not having an emotional attachment, the rest of the posters and I can see clearly while you are blinded.

The problem is were all telling you to NOT run in traffic and you still seem to want to do it. We can see clearly and I know it's hard to trust us as opposed to her who you care about, but I promise you as the day is long, mckenzie134, Jiser, Diya, Tal, and myself care a lot more about your mental and emotional well being at this time then she does. We are telling you to pull back and focus on you and try to let her go for a bit. The thing is your never going to get her by always being there available for her. That's just a recipe for failure because she, as a woman, believes that's a sign of weakness. You see it as a sign of consideration... which it is. But I'm a guy and I can think logically like you. She's a woman and she thinks emotionally and you've proven time and again to her that you are emotionally weak by always being around. She doesn't think like you and I do. She thinks emotionally and "how can I use and control his emotions." She does a great job by all these false starts and all that does is start making you think
"Should I call?"
"she called me"
"I know I shouldn't but this time there's something different"
"Well now I will look bad if I don't"
"I want to just be nice and say congradulations"
"Would that be okay?"

She's got you asking all these questions and she's sitting back on easy street controlling your mind and focus and not doing anything other then leaving you a one sentence text message.


If I don't her, I will let the weekend pass and fly home. My ONLY question is whether you think, considering the circumstances that I'm in town and don't know when I'll be "naturally" back, that I should return her call IF she calls and leaves a message saying "I would really like to meet up and chat etc etc." I'm sorry if I appear to be a bad listener - I really am listening very intently to everything that's being said - just would like to know your advice on that one thing. Thanks.

Do not contact her at all. If she gets you at a good time, good for her luck, not yours.

I understand that you want to meet her and I understand that you will be back for a few days only. But again that is her problem. If she wants to take advantage of that and spend some time with you then maker her call a few times. If she asked you out and even promised to pay but only calls once or not at all then I think we can safely assume she really didn't want anything to do with it.

From what you write I could see next Tuesday the guilt trip she might put forth when you get a text "Why didn't you call me?" I can already see it happening. She controls everything about this relationship even after it's over. While you see it as being nice she see's it as being weak. So start controlling this situation a little more and also give yourself some credit as being worthy of some respect from her instead of this game she plays.

Chuff has given some great advice here and I definitely understand how you must feel by saying what if she calls and wantsto meet or leaves me a text but I don't reply because I'm ignoring her.. Well just remember in your situation she may call or text if she wants to catch up

BUT THE BIG ONE IS IF SHE REALLY WANTS TO YOU WILL KNOW BECAUSE YOU DO NOT REPLY OR ANSWER FIRST CALL!! Definitely NOT, SHE WILL YES IF KEEN WILL WILL CALL SGAIN FOR SURE!! YOU KNOW WHY BECAUSE SHE IS THINKING WHAT YOU ARE IM NOT GOING TO SEE HIM FOR A WHILE!! SHE WILL Definitely TRY AGAIN!!

PUT IT THIS WAY IF YOU DID NOT HAVE OUR ADVICE AND ON THE WEEKEND YOU CALLED HER AND SHE Didn't ANSWER WOULD YOU CALL AGAING?? HELL YEAH You'd CALL ALL BLOODY WEEKEND!! TILL SHE ANSWERED, WELL That's WHAT SHE WILL DO IF SHE REALLY WANTS TO SEE YOU!! PEOPLE can't HELP IT IF THEY WANT SOMETHING THEY WILL KEEP CALLING TEXTING FOR It's the BNEED TO KNOW!!

THE MORE SHE WONDERS SHE WILL HAVE TO TEXT AGAIN SHE WILL NEED TO MEET UP. IM CONFIDENT YOUR GOING TO GET ANOTHER CALL AND DO THIS RIGHT WHEN YOU ANSWER, THE BIT ABOUT SAYING "OF COURSE BEEN WAITING FORYOUR CALL" That's GREAT SHELL BTHINKING I RANG HIM BEFORE HEDIDNT EVEN ANSWER AND NOW HE SAYS WAITING FOR MY CALL!! THATSGREAT GE HER THINKING WHAT IS HE UP TOO!! GET THE CONTROL BACK THIS WOKS GREAT.

Anyway once this is all done if this does work out you will then need to change your approach to this relationship you will need to be less available althogh long distance is probably less!! One big thing is if you tlk on the phone everyday or somehing on line!! Stop this STOP STOP Youmust realise that just becase you ddont se her any contact each day talking is enough for a girl!! You must give her days off this may meen just not answering one day here and there, his sounds like manipulation and probably is but you must remember girls need to miss you and this will push her love for you up!! Just keep busy and well ometmes you can't talk don't be there every time for her!! This is hard to do when your in love but its for the best live your life and let her be part of it but not all of it!!

FOR ON THIS SITE W FIN MOST GUYSWHO GET DUMPED ONE OF THERE FIRST LINES IS BUT IT WAS SO GOOD WE SPENT LIKE EVERYDAY TOGETHER!! GIRLS THINK THEY WANT HIS BUT HELL THEY WANT TIME TO MISS YOU


"THE GIFT OF MISSING YOU!! I WILL DIE KNOWING THIS IS THE GREATEST PESENT ANY RELATIONSIP CAN HAVE!! ITS SO TRUE!! AND ALSO A GIRLS FAVOURITEWORD ON OCCASONS is NO!! That's RIGH NO NO NO!! JUST NOW AND THEN YOUR BUSY can't ALWAYSSAY YES!! YOUR DOING WELL I THINKYOU WILL BE CACHING UP THISWEEKEND...

If the relationship could be mended, you would never have broken up in the first place. Two people who love each other equally do not break up, but work together to overcome whatever obstacles are before them. A break up is always when one partner has a change of heart, for whatever reason and wants to change. No contact, and thats whats needed here give you the chance to get over the intense emotions, and see things in a clear and realistic way. We owe it to ourselves to heal ,and get healthy. I am still waiting for some one to get an ex back, and not be confused or break up again over whatever reason. Accept that its over, and move on.

You could be waiting forever for someone to get an ex back and stay back. Why? Because I'm pretty sure it does happen but we just don't hear about it on a message board like this. Maybe the two people are too busy living happily ever after that they don't have time to come to a message board and tell their success story.

After all the purpose of this board is to help people with their relationship problems. This board is not necessarily a general reflection of how relationships work. So naturally people who have success getting an ex back and keeping them back are not going to have a reason to come to a message board that is purposed for relationship problems when they don't have problems.

Thanks for the further advice - a special thank you to chuff for the amazingly insightful broken-down response. Tried to spread the rep but wouldn't let me.

So this is how the story ends. On Friday, my dad calls me to tell me that she's been hired back and that he sent her a short email saying "Congratulations - it was well-deserved." She replies: "Thanks so much - I appreciate it. Out celebrating (although I am a wimp b/c I have strep throat). PS Say hi to (my mom) for me." I wonder whether I should send a short congratulations email since now she knows I know - thankfully I didn't as later in the story will explain. I fly into Toronto, go to this concert with my sister and a couple of her friends, had a great time, great concert, feeling good, still foolishly hoping that I'll hear from her on Saturday wanting to meet up perhaps. I get outside the concert, turn on my phone, and there's a voice mail from a mutual guy friend of ours, really good guy. He basically says this has been bugging him for over a week, but that he had a conversation with her to discuss his own separate relationship issues, they talk for a while, and then she says to him if you can believe this: "Gotta go - the guy I'm seeing is coming over soon. Don't tell (me)." This was the same night that I got the earlier email from her apologizing for not mailing my stuff back, suggesting we meet for coffee, and telling me she hoped I knew she missed me. I talk to the mutual friend the next day, and he tells me that he left a phone message for her telling her that she needed to tell me about this other guy by this past weekend or he would. He never heard back from her. She didn't try to contact me either the entire weekend. To recap, when we first had the "let's take a break" conversation, she had told me that it wasn't about someone else and actually said during that conversation that she was being HONEST with me because she cared very much for me, and that if she didn't care so much about me, she wouldn't be so HONEST! I have been filled ever since with more anger than I have ever felt. I nearly sent an extremely vicious email to her on Sunday night, but decided that it wasn't worth it and to take the high road instead and simply disengage with her permanently. It is amazing to witness someone who I trusted and respected so much turn out to be nothing more than a deceitful coward. And when I realized that, I started to think back with a head ironically cleared by that anger and remembered all kinds of things that she said and did that should have made me wonder but which I rationalized through a cloud of emotional attachment. I think that whatever innocence I had is now lost about how people can turn out to be so different than they appear. And it feels like such a waste of seven months, because when someone betrays your trust like that you don't know what other lies she was telling. I feel like I can never trust again, but I know in my heart that this instinct is foolish because it assumes that all women are like her. I need to just let the anger pass and work towards my own improvement and being ready to risk my heart again.

I am at least comforted by the knowledge that anyone who reads this story from the beginning to the end can learn some lessons about false hope and feeling desperate for something to last when the signs and the cold reality are staring you in the face. You're just not ready to accept it, because you're scared of leaving something you thought was so good. I made that mistake, please don't make it yourselves. Force yourself to engage your objective mind and look at what is really going on in front of you. When a girl/guy says "I need some space" or "I'm having serious doubts" or anything resembling this attitude - IT... IS... OVER. It is not a matter of if, only when. You may be left dangling for weeks, months, or years, but you will have permanently relinquished emotional control of the relationship to the one who dumped you, and will be left fearful, confused, in doubt, and chasing happiness which you think is just around the corner but will never come. Get away from these emotional manipulators and users and find someone who makes you FEEL BETTER in your own skin. Nothing less should be acceptable - I would even go as far to say in hindsight that once a pattern of your own emotional confusion emerges you should walk away, because it will likely get worse and worse and you will get more and more attached through more and more rationalizations of their behaviour and blaming of your behaviour. Once you start thinking "well, if I just change this and this and this, we'll be happier", you're toast. Important qualifier: this is not to say that you may not have issues that need resolving (jealousy, neediness, whatever), but once they emerge and cause momentum to reverse within the relationship, you need to get out and work on them OUTSIDE the relationship. I learned this the hard way, so please don't make the same mistakes as me. And also - to ease the difficulty of walking away from a relationship because of certain issues YOU have, remember also that there are certain types of women/men who bring out and subtly provoke those negative qualities to maintain emotional control over the relationship, so don't think everything's your fault. Some people need emotional control over the relationship, and so they prey on their partner's weaknesses, often quite subtly, as happened with me. For example, subtle comments made to emasculate, over-flirtiness with other people in front of you, etc. It's not worth the time, there are better women out there for you. People like Chuff, Wildcat, Tal, Mac, Jiser, and others, have helped me immeasurably in not prolonging this, and I am immensely grateful for that. I hope that I can return the favour in the days to come.

Best to all and thanks again.

If anyone has any thoughts on how this ended or how it was handled, I'd be interested to hear them.

I can honestly say I'm not surprised. She was essestienlly leading you on and using you as a back up plan in case it didn't work out with the current guy she's hooking up with. For her it worked out perfectly, you were already at a distance in geograhy so she didn't have to hide you from him at all.

She also knew that you were into her much more then she was into you so she was able to manipulate your emotions and get you to do whatever she wanted, as has been discussed in the past posts.

I've got some good news though. First, if you take the lessons that you learned from this situation and from others on this site you'll be better off in the future. Second, that skank is out of your life and somebody else's problem. I know you still have feelings but she could have been honest and just said, "the distance isn't going to make this relationship work" and it would have hurt but been the truth. Instead she lied, strung you along, kept you as a second fiddle, and used you. So she's a skank.

I think at this point you've done everything right. Answering her with a angery message would probably make you feel better, but in her eyes it's not going to offend her. In fact it's just going to make her happy knowing she still controls your emotions. Remember, at the end of the day, that's her game. She likes to control emotions. So acting out towards her, ironically enough, only makes her happy. That's what I was talking about when I was telling you to take the control back and answer the questions like she was an afterthought.

At this time just drop away from her. Given that your dad works with her and you have some mutual friends, I'd guess that she'll try to contact you at some point. I'd recommend not talking to her, but if you do be the happiest guy on the planet, as she thinks you need her for survial and that would prove you don't. But the best way to show her that you don't need her would be to not talk to her.

I know you still have feelings but she could have been honest and just said, "the distance isn't going to make this relationship work" and it would have hurt but been the truth. Instead she lied, strung you along, kept you as a second fiddle, and used you. So she's a skank.


Thanks for the thoughts, chuff. That's the thing that ashames me right now - I still can't help wondering "why, why, why" and wasting more mental energy on this. I mean, the fact that she flippantly tells a mutual friend of ours that some other dude is on his way over to get an easy booty call and then tells him not to tell me. The mutual friend calls her and says that she has to tell me herself, and she doesn't respond to him or call me.

And I'm sitting here trying to come up with a theory at how someone could become so evil so suddenly! I'm trying to put myself in her shoes at this very moment - sounds stupid, but just laughing at someone else's joke, singing in the shower, whatever, doing anything cheerful, while knowing how horrible and cowardly she's acted. I just can't imagine how someone can go through their day like this. She still hasn't mailed me my stuff, so perhaps if I get it back I'll get some spinned up note that will only have the effect of making me more angry and, hence, prolonging her emotional control over me. I just wish it was easier to forget someone, especially such a complete disgrace of a person, beyond staying busy. For those who have watched Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, it's like I want that erasure of her from my mind. I wish I'd never met her. At least it's easier to know that it's right to let go when you find this stuff out from a mutual friend - some people aren't so lucky and have to deal with never-ending uncertainty on what's really going on. Anyway, I just don't understand how she could play me so horribly. I hesitate to think that she was simply so cowardly that she told my friend, suspecting he'd tell me, so she wouldn't have to do it.

You will find there are a lot of users and abusers out there, and this will give you a valuable lesson. Don't be so quick to let people so close, and give your heart away.

We need to make a mistake to learn from it, that is life. Without the lessons learned we wouldn't grow into better people. You will probably have learnt so much from this, so take advantage of it. As tal said above, take it slower next time.

Concentrate on the things you want out of life for now, enjoy life, don't let down an oppurinity. One day someone else will come along, maybe you will split but you keep going until one sticks! :)

This is the best advise I have seen yet! Where were you when I had questions?

Wow... all I can say is wow!

I wouldn't have treated an enemy like that! People need to know and understand when you maliciously treat people like that, it comes back on them... you don't need to say another word to her. LIFE will get her back. I feel bad for her.

Even I thank you for your valuable advise. Totally applicable to my situation. People play games with your heart once they know they can get to you. However rude, it was definitely an awakening.

So after 2 weeks of NC she still hasn't tried to contact me or the mutual friend. I wouldn't reply anyway, but I have to admit being really puzzled at why this is the case. Any theories?

The main problem is getting my stuff back - there's some stuff I left there that I value and would really like back. How long should I give her to send it back before reminding her? I don't want to break NC, but at some point I guess I have to assume she forgot and decide whether I should just let the stuff go. Anyone faced this particular dilemma before or have advice on how to handle it?

You can ask for it back and keep it brief.

So after 2 weeks of NC she still hasn't tried to contact me or the mutual friend. I wouldn't reply anyway, but I have to admit being really puzzled at why this is the case. Any theories?

The main problem is getting my stuff back - there's some stuff I left there that I value and would really like back. How long should I give her to send it back before reminding her? I don't want to break NC, but at some point I guess I have to assume she forgot and decide whether I should just let the stuff go. Anyone faced this particular dilemma before or have advice on how to handle it?

I want you to reread this entire thread in about 6 months. It will be a great learning tool for you and I think you'll see things so much clearer. First of all, she didn't forget to return your stuff. She's holding it for the collateral. She knows if she has it, you have to contact her. It's all part of her game.

You could go two ways on this, and I'm not even sure about the second one. I'll let you and some others be the judge. The first one is just call her and say, "hey I was so busy this past weekend, when I was in town I forgot to set up a time with you to get my stuff." By saying it like that, it presupposes that the only real reason you wanted to meet with her was to get your stuff and also that you were the one that forgot about her. By not bringing up what your mutual friend said, it's actually going to make her wonder if you even no about the other guy.

The second way could be to tell her to give the stuff to your father at work. I only use this as a suggestion because she might hesitate sending you the stuff because she enjoys emotionally torturing you. But my guess is she doesn't want to be seen as a b!tch around work so she might be compelled to bring you stuff to you dad before he starts telling people that she won't turn over you stuff. I'm a little iffy on that one myself, because I don't like the idea of bringing other people into you issues but in this situation it might work.

Thanks for the advice Tal and Chuff. I don't think my father would want to get involved with taking the stuff back, but good idea anyway. I really don't want to call her either, because hearing her voice might put me back to square one. I don't even want to email her, because it gives her an opportunity to engage that could throw me off as well. I've been feeling a bit better lately and, quite frankly, I'm a bit scared that engaging in any way will ruin my progress. I've decided to find a middle ground on your advice here - I'll give it a month from today for her to do it on my own, at which point I'll be feeling better than today. Then, if she still hasn't sent it, I'll just send a bare-essentials email with mailing address and a one-sentence request to send it back etc. Anyway, thanks for helping me think through this.

I've decided to find a middle ground on your advice here - I'll give it a month from today for her to do it on my own,
A good decision, in my opinion.

Thanks for the further advice. There are two more things I'm struggling with. The first is that I bought over 240 dollars worth of non-refundable tickets for her birthday weekend in late June, but I don't want to haggle over how to split it up so will probably eat the cost. Actually, that isn't the main dilemma. The main dilemma is I have three options on how to tie up the loose ends, and I've realized I don't want to wait a month to do it. Hoping for some feedback on what you think is the best option and why.

Option 1: Send no "give me my stuff back" email and just accept that I won't get it back. It's not the end of the world, I've realized, and I could just stay NC forever.

Option 2: Send this email:

"Still haven't received my stuff back. Please send it like you said you would. Thanks in advance.

(mailing address)

Option 3: Send the Option 2 email but with this attached at the end -

"I will eat the cost of the 240 dollars in non-refundable tickets that you gave me the go-ahead to buy, because I simply have no desire to figure out how to split it up with you.

You have shown yourself to be a deceitful coward - congratulations. Can't believe you let (our mutual friend) do your dirty work for you."

I'm confused because I want to get this woman out of my life, but I also want her to have to think about what she's done. If I send out the "Option 3" email, it gives her material to respond to, which might lead to escalation and more frustration. But if I send the "Option 2" email, it's cool and collected but it allows her the luxury of not having to think that she did anything wrong. Option 1 is also attractive because it's me saying to myself that there's nothing more to think about. Perhaps I sound petty, but isn't there something to be said for briefly saying to someone exactly what they did wrong in a firm and non-needy way, just so you've said what you think they deserve to hear? Any thoughts on this "closure issue" would be appreciated.

And I should clarify about the tickets - I bought them when we were still together - mentioned them as a possibility because she didn't really like surprises - then checked with her before buying them whether she wanted to go and she said "of course." Anyway, will still probably eat the cost.

Option#4. Keep the tickets, and party with your friends, or send them to her and attach a note;
Have fun and do whatever with my stuff I don't need IT.
Or if you keep the tickets which I would, and have a grand time.


I want to get this woman out of my life,

Realise she is already out of your life, but your trying to get her back through the back door, by bringing up your stuff, and the tickets to get her to react. Understandable, but a dumb idea since, you should be moving on. Forget trying to make her feel what you do, or what you want her to feel. Drop the whole idea, Keep the no contact and just let her wonder. No notes, no emails, no nothing. Find your closure in getting on with your own life.

Well Tal, I wish it would let me spread the rep with you. I always value your advice.

I can't use the tickets myself, because they're in her town, not mine, and can't afford the airfare. Also, they're for things she would enjoy, because they were for her birthday. But good "Option #4" if circumstances were right. I truly don't want her back after what she's done, not in denial here. When I said "I want this woman out of my life" I was trying to make the point that I want the lingering remnants of her out of my life so I have nothing more to think about, but I hear what you're saying about deep down wanting her to feel bad about what she's done. It's a very powerful urge. And perhaps it's petty, but it does deeply bother me that people can act this way without being called on it. But you're right, taking the high road and letting her wonder as you advise will at least block her out for good.

If she contacted you and said that she wants to see you (and you want things to work out with her) then you should respond to her and tell her simply, "Yes, I will see you." In love, there are no rules, or right or wrong answers. What does your heart tell you to do? If it says heck yes, see her, then that is what you should do. Do not think it is going to make you look weak either, it's not like you're falling down at her door, you are simply responding to her request. Life's too short to spend it in limbo and always wondering "what if."

Thanks for the reply Cvtldy54. You'll have to read the rest of the thread, as circumstances changed quite a bit.

And still open to people's opinions on the "getting stuff back" and what's the best way to handle it, based on the options I came up with earlier today.

I agree with Chuff and Jiser. Let her miss you. Don't chase. I am currently going through a breakup, break? We don't fight or bicker. Actually we are great together. Our problem is an age difference. I'm the older one. We're giving each other space so we can both figure out what we want and what is realistic for us. It's not easy, but I don't think putting pressure on her will work for us or you. Good luck.

Hey all,

Well, here I am after 1 month of absolutely no contact trying to give occasional advice in other threads based on my own experience, and still struggling myself.

I wonder if anyone's gone through what I'm starting to go through right now. The anger's still there but subsiding a little, and I'm starting to find myself trying to put myself in her shoes to figure out why she would act this way. And I'm not trying to justify what she did, just make some sense of it, so I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate, which is probably not healthy but I can't help myself. You have to be familiar with my story to know what I'm talking about here, but basically I think:

OK, she was honest in asking for a break at the outset, and didn't guarantee me she wouldn't see anyone else. And then I sent her her stuff a week later and told her "I understand this is over, don't want the dragged-out process, have a nice life" basically. In other words, I chose to characterize the "break" as permanent. She then reads that and says "Oh, OK, he can't handle a break and isn't respecting my wishes, so I'll write him back to tell him I can send him his stuff if he wants and I'm still open to seeing him when he comes in if he changes his mind." I then say "No, we shouldn't see each other anymore, send me my stuff." She then responds "Fine, I will send you your stuff ASAP, and if you change your mind, we can still meet up." I don't respond for a week, she then says she misses me and suggests coffee. She says "OK, you say when" and then tries to clarify when I don't respond. I then give her a vague reply that we can meet sometime that weekend I'm in. I then don't follow up to set up a time, and don't congratulate her on her hireback, etc etc. And nothing since then.

I'm not trying to beat myself up here, because I know she still could have totally been being dishonest about there being someone else in the picture to begin with. And also the fact that she suggested coffee and said she missed me a couple hours before she told the mutual friend that the guy she was seeing was on his way over and not to tell me. And then never followed up. But she probably thinks that technically, on paper, whatever, she didn't do anything wrong, and that I'd said it was over when I sent her her stuff and made it permanent, and she was just going along with the program. But then again she didn't fight for it (the relationship) or even communicated that she didn't want the break to be permanent. As you can tell, all my thoughts are conflicted and jumbled here. As pathetic as it may sound, I still do miss her a lot, and maybe I'm just trying to think outside my own perspective to see if her angle makes any sense. And if I blew off her consistent message that we could meet up if my mind changed. And if she just saw someone else thinking that it was my fault to lay it down as a permanent breakup. Not that it necessarily matters, or that she was justified thinking these things. I just wonder if she was thinking from the beginning that it was just a break and then I set things in motion for it to be permanent. And of course the only way I could find this out is to talk to her, but I feel like I obviously can't do that because (1) I could be totally wrong and she could just reject me and confirm everything I thought to begin with and (2) part of me is still angry that she wouldn't put in more effort to prevent it from being permanent if she truly cared.

I haven't got a thing done at work all day, and I can't seem to work this out in my own head, and it won't be any better tomorrow, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any thoughts for me to screw my head back on here. Is it still best to remain no contact? (I'm a bit ashamed to be asking this question considering the advice I've been given, but maybe I'm like everyone else in thinking my own situation is somehow different).

Anyway, thanks.

We all have those nagging suspicions in the back of our heads. Those "what if's" that keep us from moving on... from healing.

You can either move on and understand that you now have the opportunity to figure something's out for yourself. Get back to being just you.

Or...

You can sit there and wonder about what could have been... about the past. Things you can't change. While the future passes you by.

Or...

If these questions really bother you that much... ask. Get it out. Ask her why, how, what, when, and where. It may be her chance to verbally abuse you, toy with your emotions, derail the progress you have made, or... lay your fears to rest.

Its up to you how you will approach it. I know that it can't be an easy decision. Your emotions are all over the place. But "YOU" are what is important now. Your health and wellbeing. Do what is best for you and your future.

As Sd, pointed out so very well, you are caught in the what if's... and this will get you stuck, as you put so much emphasis on what you think her feelings are, you get defocused on what your feeling are and what to do about it. You are not alone, that's just that last vestige of false hope creepy into your mind. Reject these thoughts, as not logical to what your goals are, and don't be stuck on what if's, how coulds, or anything that does not promote how YOU feel. The minute you mention her name, your going the wrong way.

Keep no contact.

Make a list of things you need to do in the short term only. Then do them.

Do physical exercise daily.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I guess what was going through my head was the question: "How bad has she treated me here?" Which I guess is a key part of letting go. Because it's a lot harder to let go of someone who has treated you fairly through the breakup. But going back through it in my head I realize that I shouldn't be giving her the benefit of the doubt - in the big picture, she dumped me and didn't want to make the effort to hold on and work things out. She would claim that she "gave me enough chances", but that was all part of her game of subtle provocation, where I would end up apologizing and letting her be in the position of "giving me another chance" and forgiving me. Which I guess is a way for those types of people to gain emotional control without it being obvious. Thanks tal and Sdjosh for reminding me to focus on how I feel instead of her, and to Chuff for reinforcing the proper course of action.

Hey all, I could really use some advice right now because I'm a bit of a mess. My stuff came in the mail today with a postcard that simply said:

"Hey - I tried to get a card, but all sold out of blanks. Nothing else seemed appropriate, so I just went for the most neutral of all. Anyhow, I am really sorry it took me so long to send your stuff. I hope you are doing all right - I sense small talk not likely to be well received. Please don't misinterpret this short message as not caring at all. All other/any contact remains up to you. Best, ____"

I just don't know what to do. Maybe someone with a clear head can help decode this. Or maybe it's not worth it. Of course, she put the onus on me to contact her. Her birthday is this weekend. Again, I don't know what to do. Please help me out here.

All other/any contact remains up to you. Best, ____"

It called putting the ball in your court, so she isn't going to call, but as you say her birthday is coming up. Send that birthday card, and keep no contact until you get clear headed. Do you see that it doesn't take a lot of contact to be confused??? Get healthy.

Thanks Tal, but whoa please explain further. You think I should send a birthday card? Isn't that sort of saying "hey, don't worry about treating me like crap, have a great day with your new guy?" I'm not trying to play games and I do have this urge to contact her - is that the best way to put the ball back in her court?

Also, I have tickets that I originally bought for a couple of things this weekend in her city. Does that factor into this at all and how I should approach it?

Also, who knows if she's still with the guy that my mutual friend mentioned. I am so confused on how to handle this.

I think that I am just going to send a birthday card with the tickets enclosed and keep it neutral. Because I think at some point I have to forgive to move on - the sooner the better. It will throw her for a loop that I reach out and expect nothing in return. Although the second I finished that sentence, I wonder if I'll get bent out of shape if I hear nothing back and really mean what I'm saying there. If I don't respond, I'll just appear sulky. Perhaps this is a mistake, but maybe I'm ready to make one and discover things on my own.

Enough talk, send the card and get a life without her. Whether she calls or not is irrelevant. How she takes the gesture is irrelevant. The only thing relevant is sending the card is the end of her in your mind, and you will not call, or take calls from her. Period. No more confusion by talking to her. No ifs, ands, or butts.

I 2nd tali's advise! Go for a run by the way :)

I guess in your case... it's a closed chapter... u guys are just dragging it on in your minds.. that's it.. just with the fear of not losing it physically, though you've already lost it practically. Whether you send the card or not, your aim should be to let go and if you send the card, u will never be able to let go... and if u still have the strong urge to send one, do so commanding the perils of future confusion. Let bygones be bygones... meet new faces and explore more out there...

I would not send a birthday card but if you do I send one that lists the wrong birthday. For example if it's her 20th birthday, send one that says "Happy 22nd birthday." That will make her wonder if you are joking or do you really not know.

I agree with Chuff... Atleast you remembered her birthday but the age can confuse!!

Thanks all who've responded so far - I did send the card with the tickets enclosed. Just a brief note with a couple of light jokes. I figured I'd do the opposite of what my original instinct was, which was to ignore or send a nasty message. Isn't there a Seinfeld episode where George uses that concept? I couldn't hold on to the anger and the instinct to sulk, which I feel NC was producing in me up to that point. It was killing me. I feel good this morning for once and am trying not to expect anything further. I'm also feeling good because I worked up the courage to get the number of a pretty hot Starbucks girl who'd been sending signals the last little while. Anyway, thanks for the help in once again moving forward.

and if you send the card, u will never be able to let go...and if u still have the strong urge to send one, do so commanding the perils of future confusion.

A valid warning - hopefully won't be the case. I just figured I had nothing to lose at this point. And I won't have any "what ifs" lingering in my head. It felt like the right thing to do.

There's something about Starbucks girls!

Sounds like she enjoys playing games. Now, this does not necessarily mean that she is a bad person; long distant relationships are hard, and she may just feel like she's being cheated from experiencing all that a "normal" relationship has to offer. Now, I do believe that she is right about one thing : "Time a part is what your relationship needs." If you are interested in discovering whether she really loves/likes you, then perhaps going on a double date with her will give you your answer. You bring a female friend as a date, and she bring a male friend as a date. Now conspiculously this is risky. However, if any signs of jealousy appears, than she wants you. Otherwise, move on. Go out to the mall, movies, and meet new people. You may find that you enjoy this freedom more than you enjoy being confined to a long distant relationship. Hope this helps, send me a messege letting me know how things turn out. Wish you the best; it's nice to hear from genuwine guys like yourself! :)

Dude, love is like a butterfly. Hold it too tight it dies. Give her her space, if she is really meant to be yours, she'll come back to you. PAtience, and be strong.
I'm going through something similar, and it's tough but I'm giving him his space.

Updates Clarity! And for everyone to know... I did get my ex back thanks to the help of this site and I do come back to tell people and thank you all every chance I get and sometimes the one's who get the ex back, do return to share the great news and to help others get the same results... It all depends on how much you love the girl and how you treated them while you were together. Good luck to all, and always love the one you love! It's going to be 5 months we are together again!! I couldn't be happier!! I love her!