Okay, some of you know that my father has been ill recently, he will be 74 next month. I found out tonight that he is still vent dependent (it has been almost 2 months). In speaking with his nurse tonight I found that he is considered end-stage. He will never get off the vent.

Dad has been a very ill person for most of his life. He was addicted to many things his entire life, and has suffered severe depression, been hospitalized several times for his depression and takes about 14 different medications a day.

He continues to express to the nurses that he is done. Done fighting. He has fought the good fight all of his life and is just tired. The doctors, nurses and social worker have spoken to Mom about this, but they tell me that she is not quite ready to let go. She still believes that there is still hope.

Dad is full code so if there is a medical emergency they must do all they can to save his life. Mom is the only one who can change him to a DNR as Dad has periods of dementia daily and is not considered of sound mind to make decisions regarding his medical treatment.

I am over 600 miles away from them, and due to school I have not been able to get away to see my parents. Nursing School only allows 2 missed days per semester. So I will be going up within the next couple of weeks, after finals and getting the kids settled here (they don't finish school for another month).

Now, for my dilemma... The nurse and the social worker have asked me to talk to Mom after I get up there and help reinforce his wishes. I just don't know how to approach it.

Sorry, I am rambling, but I just had to get this off my chest. Got to stay strong for my kids, got to focus on finals, and hubby is not much of a listener.

Again, sorry, I just had to vent.

Vent. My dad went so quickly we didn't have time to have to consider DNRs and things like that.

I can't imagine the stress you must be under. School, kids and sickly parents can quickly wear you down. I hope you take some time for yourself - if only to get a pedicure.

You don't appear to have much time to visit mom and dad. Maybe your mom justs needs to hear from you that it is okay for her to let him go. Dad must be miserable and has no quality of life and is ready. Do they have local clergy that you could discuss things with, too?

Sending cyber hugs your way. Be well.

Im so sorry to hear about that J_9. Its never an easy situation when dealing with DNR and DNH type of situations. I had to go through this situation with my father about 4 years ago. He was on a vent as well and his organs began shutting down. I think that its even harder for us since we are in the medical field. Although it is a blessing to help others when it comes to our own families I believe can it can be a curse sometimes.

I don't know if this helps but when it came to the point when my fathers kidney's shut down and the doctors told us there really was nothing else they could do for him reality set in hard. It feels like a empty pit inside your stomach and it feels like someone has knocked all the air out of you.

I sat down with my mom in the ICU and said to her... "what do you think dad would want?". I told her that I knew she was scared to live without him and let him go but if she could picture herself talking to him what would he want in this situation. It was such a painful decision but my mother said that he wouldn't want to live in pain. Letting go of him was the hardest thing she has ever had to do.

Maybe just try asking your mom if she thinks your dad would want this, talk to her about how she is scared to let him go and go with the conversation from there. How are you holding up? You have a lot on your plate with school and the family, I hope that you are finding a way to cope and deal with everything as it comes at you. If there is anything any us can do to help in anyway let us know. I know I have only been on this site for a short time but it seems that you are very much loved and liked. Please keep up updated and vent anytime you need to... and never apologize for doing so. I hope this has helped in someway.

Take care,
Adoredevotion

You are not rambling. Your Mom still has the view that your Dad can regain his health, or at least to a state where he is less ill than he is now. Maybe she is praying for that miracle. While I do believe in miracles, I also believe that there is the time to come to terms with what is right there.

You are definitely in a hard spot. Would you Mom consider talking to someone in Hospice? Perhaps she would take what that person says not as personally as if you would say the very same thing. A different point of reference. At least to place the reality before her to think about. When you get there, may she be ready to listen to you. You said she is not ready to listen to the doctors, the nurses, and the social workers. Hospice comes from a bit different persective.

Yes, it is hard to be the daughter and the professional nurse. You speak with both hats on and know what is and is not capable of being. How to approach your Mom? She will most likely tell you what all has been said to her about your Dad. Hopefully she will ask you if those people are right. Maybe that will open the door. Are there other children that will stand with you?

My heart goes out to you. My prayers for you and your Dad and Mom. Huggssssss.

Oh, J_9. I am so sorry to hear of these latest developments. As shy says, you are not rambling honey.

I think for now, you need to do what you can at home and get yourself through your final exams. It is not selfish. I think you need to wait until you can be there with your parents to fully assess the situation. You need to speak to your Dad, and see exactly where his health is at for yourself. If nothing else, you need to see him before any decision is made on this, so that you have an opportunity to say anything that you feel needs to be said to him. Then, speak with your Mom, if you feel it is time to let him go. Is your Mom religious at all? Is there someone else who's counsel she values? You may need to ask that person for help in this situation, if it comes down to it. But, for now, get through your exams. Be a support to your Mom via telephone. Then, go there and visit with your Dad. You will know what to do and what to say, when you can see what is going on for yourself.

xxxxoooo MWAH to you my dear.

It is tough, We did that with my Dad, because it was his wishes, and to me, the patients wishes are more important than my own opinion.

Next is there any chance of him getting well and walking out of the hosptial? If the answer is no, the best thing you can do is try and make his last days as pain free as possible.

But in the end all you can do is what you feel is right in your heart, there is really never any right or wrong in these matters

Well it depends on your point of view. On the one hand you two really carry the only opinions that matter legally on the other your father asked to be let off support. Ill tell you a story at my school our campus moniter is the most popular person there, he is caring, and will talk to you if he sees that something is wrong. Well it turns out that his mother was sick with brain cancer and had been going downhill for years but in the last two months had taken a serious nose dive. Anyway finnally his mother died and I went to comfort him and he told me that it was easier tolet her go then watch her suffer. He had had to make the DNR and DNH decisions and he knew that she didn't want to be in any pain any more so he let her go.

I hope this helps...

Syujin

OMG, all of you are so wonderful!!

(((((((((((((em))))))))))))))

((((((((((((adore)))))))))))))

(((((((((((((shy)))))))))))))

((((((((((ruby))))))))))))))

This is by far the hardest time of my life. I usually try to help others, but right now I feel so... Damn, I can't even describe it right now.

I have no one that even understands.

Mom is in total denial. She keeps thinking of the Terry Schiavo case. She heard Dad tell her he was done, but she is not ready to let go.

I just don't know what else to say right now.

Thanks Chuck. Yes, it is Dad's wishes, but he is still coherent and Mom is not ready to give up. They have been together over 50 years. She says as long as he is coherent then she can't sign the consent.

I guess this may be why I have been sounding a little aggrivated here lately, and I feel terrible about that!!

I hate that I am taking out my frustrations here. That is why I finally decided to post this.

It is now time to write my "letter." A few weeks before my grandfather passed I wrote a long letter discussing all of the fun things that I remembered about him. He used to feed me butter out of a spoon (I know it is bad now, but that was almost 40 years ago) and all of my cousins laughed and said "he did that to you too?" LOL. We also played "crack the knuckles" The Polish equivalent, at least in my family of "pull mu finger" was played quite frequently.

It took me about 3 weeks to write that letter to him, just to get everything out I ever wanted to say.

It arrived the day he passed. About 2 hours after he passed. He was over 600 miles away from me also.

When I got to Pittsburgh, to the funeral home, the letter was in his hands (you all don't understand how hard this is for me right now) and, the day of the funeral the letter was gone. My uncle was to give the eulogoy.

When it was time for the eulogy my uncle said "no one can re-create my father's life than one of his grandchildren" and he read the letter I had written. All of my cousins laughed, it acutally was an amazing day

Now I feel as though I am going through this all over again. However, this time Dad says that he is ready to go, but Mom won't let him. It is now up to me, my sister and brother to talk to her. But what do we do? What do we say? She is not ready to say goodbye, but he is. He is tired of suffering, he is tired of hurting? But Mom's hurting will really just beginning.

What a horrible place to be in. What tremendous pain this brings.

I am sure my mother and father know how you feel. My Grandfather (dads dad) and grandmother (moms dad) died within a year of each other. Two hard times. My grandma spent a long time in the hospital and my grandfather had a stroke one morning and was gone by night :( But with my fiance's granddad they told them he wouldn't make it past this time. His kidney's and liver were failing. So we took him off the machines and took him home... that is where he wanted to die. He lived a day and a half at home, went peacefully, died at home and with everyone he loved. Is this a choice for your family? I hope so because it is always better to die at home with family and not in a hospital on a bunch of machines. I wish you the best! Let us know. And if you need someone to talk to or vent more just come back here!

Hugs
Kristen

Yes, Brazy, it is a choice for our family, but I don't think Mom thinks that he is so close yet. She said to me today that as long as he is "coherent" that she cannot make a decision like this.

Oh, I just noticed that your name is KRISTEN. That is my sister's name, but KristIn.

Yes, I need to vent. I am usually the one here giving advice and help, but for once I am just at a loss.

The pain of the decisions is horrendous!!

Hi J

I'm so sorry for what you and your family are going through.
I know this has got to be a painful time for everyone.

I don't know of any advice to offer that hasn't already be said.
I just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you.

Kae

Hugs to you J_9,
You surely are in a difficult place, and I ache for you. I do want to speak on this, and please remember that it is just my opinion, based on my own experiences.

Even if your mom signed a DNR, if she really didn't believe in it I don't think your dad could let go. It is my belief that he will go when he knows (don't ask me how he will know - he just will) that his loved ones are ready to let go. I know it may sound horrible, but I believe the dying can't let go until all is well in the hearts of their loved ones. I also don't think that it would be good for your mother to try to push her to that decision. It has to come when she finds it within herself to be strong enough to let go.

I do think that you can (and should) talk to her about it... in a loving, caring way. You can cry with her... wonder if he is just hanging on because he knows she isn't ready to let go. I so understand her not wanting to when he is coherent. Giving up on him must feel to her like she would be saying she didn't love him. You know... when your spouse is going through a rough time you think you should be able to help them. She must be feeling so helpless right now - much like you are feeling.

I think I would talk to her about her own feelings. I would share mine, but more-so just try to get her to talking about her own. Empathize with her... love her... and, as difficult as it might be, let her come to her realization that she is ready to let him go on her own. If your dad is in too much pain, request they up his meds. But honestly, J_9, if he truly wanted to let go, he would.

My heart aches for you, your family, your dad and especially your mom. I know that the moment I realized that my husband was just hanging on and going through all that pain for me, I knew I wanted him to let go. Almost immediately, he did. I didn't (and still don't) feel that I wanted him to hang on... I just couldn't let him go... until I reached that point that I knew it was what I wanted.

I think if you let her come to it on her own she will be a lot stronger after he dies. This may be all that is holding her together right now.

Warm hugs,
Didi

Oh hello Beautiful J_9 -

Many **hugs** to you. This time of our lives, to me, really defines are role and exsistence. At times the roles seem to reverse, or the line seems to not be so clear, but one thing is for sure, you ar J_9, the loving daughter, and Mom is Mom. As long as Dad is not suffering, allow Mom to be Mom and wife a little while longer.

Not sure I would broach the subject with Mom. I would just gingerly ask questions, like, what does the doctors say? Questions, to bring Mom's thoughts back to reality of the situtation just a bit.

This has to be one of the most difficult times of our adult life. When one of our parents is ill this way. But somehow we do get through. This is one of those times I say, follow your heart entirely and let God take care of all the rest.

Oh how my heart is with you now J_9. I'm here for you now and always.

Love,
Allheart

I feel Great sorrow for you in your time of sadness.

One thing you might want to ask your mom is what she would want you and your sister to do if it was her. -- Savage

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/asdat/01.jpg

Very good idea Savage.

J_9, the problem right now is that the hospital staff has done something that isn't very fair to you. You are hundreds of miles away without being able to be there for another couple of weeks because of all this stuff going on in your life, and they have added to your stress. They are putting you in a very untenable position via long distance, at the moment. Since you are in the healthcare field, you understand completely why they are doing this. They are on the frontlines right now and are reaching out to someone who they know will understand what they are saying. Their reasonings are from a financial and practical point of view. It is truly understandable. But, from an emotional point of view, dumping this on you right now, when you are so far away and cannot resolve this issue for them, is not fair of them, at all. You need to tell them that. You need to stay strong and tell them that when you get there, you will do what you feel is necessary, but at the moment, you cannot try to convince your Mother over the phone and you want to see and speak with your Father. Tell them they will have to "button it" and wait.

I see that you are really worrying about what to say, how to handle your Mom. Savage has brought up something that needs to be said to her. Believe me, you WILL know what to say to your Mom once you see what is going on with your Dad for yourself.

I understand perfectly what your Mother is saying. It is so hard to let someone go if they are coherent. She is torn with guilt over wanting this to be over, and that little spark of hope that maybe, just maybe, he might recover. As tired and drained as she is, she also doesn't want to let go because she can still have conversations with him. "Pulling the plug" is such an emotionally draining and intensely painful decision. The guilt that comes with this, the second guessing of one's self after it is done, is too much of a burden for most of us to carry. She is afraid. She is unsure. She is still able to converse with him. She doesn't understand the kind of pain and discomfort he is in. She believes if he was in such agony, he wouldn't be able to have a rational conversation with her. She thinks it is too soon. He may be telling her, when they are alone, that he is afraid. Since he has suffered from depression for most of his life, the fact that he wants to let go, may appear to be like a broken record to her. She will keep going back and forth with this in her mind, torturing herself with her indecision/decision until her entire family is around her. She may not be expressing it, but she needs you all there. She will definitely not do this until she is sure that he has had a chance to say goodbye to everyone and told everyone what he wants.

So, understand that your Mother may be delaying this because she needs you all there, as much for her, to give her the strength, as she needs you there for him. When you get to the hospital and have spent time talking with your Dad, when you and your siblings have done the same, when you are all together, everyone will be able to discuss this. The best thing you can do is to have your Mom, and the rest of the family, in the room with Dad. When he is in one of his coherent moments, talk to him about the situation. Let him state in front of Mom, what he wants. He needs to tell her that he doesn't want to hang on like this anymore in front of everyone. If he is in pain, he needs to make her aware of that. You and your siblings need to guide the conversation so that there is no misunderstanding as to what he wants. Have the necessary paperwork on hand. Ask the doctor/staff to be available and ready to walk in when your Mom realizes/recognizes that this is his wish and she accepts it. Mom needs to see that no one will blame her , that all of her children are in agreement with her husband, and she should not feel guilty over this. She needs to be allowed to have the burden of this decision taken off her shoulders. The only way to do that is if you all are there. Everyone needs a chance to say their goodbyes. It just very well may be that she is holding off for this moment, but is too fearful, or guilt ridden, to express it. As a matter of fact, she may not consciously realize this is what she needs from all of you.

I hope this helps.
XXXXOOOOO

Just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you during this difficult time. My prayers are with you. Try and take a deep breath and do what you can do to relax even if it is just for a moment. I have this feeling inside that when you get out to see your parents that you and your siblings will know what to say to your mother, as well as, your father. Keep venting though and letting us know how you are feeling and what is going on. The hardest thing for me when my father died was that I was being strong for everyone else I forgot to let someone else be strong for me. Trust that you are doing the right thing. If this sounds cliché I apologize but reading this helped me through my difficult time.

-one night a man dreamed he was walking on the beach with the Lord. As scenes flashed before Him, He noticed that there were two sets of footprints in the sand. He also noticed at his saddest lowest times there was but one set of footprints...This bothered the man. He asked the Lord "Did you not promise that if I gave my heart to you that You'd be with me all the way? Then why are there but one set of footprints during my most troublesome times?" The Lord replied, "My precious child, I love you and would never forsake you. During those time of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."


Stay strong, smile a little for us and take care of yourself.

Sincerely,
Adoredevotion

Hello J9,

I am so so sorry to hear about the situation that you feel that your in right now. I hope that we all here can help you in your time of need and hopefully say that right things that will help comfort you. I am praying for you and your whole family to be able to come together in this time and hopefully heal eventually.

You asked us what we personally would do in your situation. It would be hard to know exactly what we would do in your situation unless we went through it ourselves, but I will write hear what I think I would do and how I personally would deal with this situation.

If I understand correctly your father wants to just let go, but honestly since he is still here. It is not really his time to go yet.

Okay I am going to tell you a story. When I was a teenager. I found out that my Step Grandfather was dying with cancer. He lives in the states. I stayed home while most of the family went down to boston to be with him. He knew for a while that he had cancer but never told anybody. His children are all over the place and not all of them could make it.

Apparently close to the end. I remember sitting at home knowing everybody could not make it. Thinking of the pain he was in. I lit a candle and said a prayer. I asked God to take him home and that I know he has suffered enough. I asked God that once I blew out the candle that he would go back home. No more then a few minutes later I received a phone call that he passed away. Even the family that could not make it, once he knew everybody was on the phone apparently that is when he felt it was okay to leave, or that it was his time.

I personally feel that by talking with your mother or even trying to convince her to make a decision that she is not ready for will cause some resentment. I know it is well meaning but I do not think that anybody should convince your mother to do anything she does not want to do. I feel that she just needs support around her from family. Family to be there to help her through this time. It is understandable to want to do everything in your power to Help with your fathers wishes, but in the end it is between your father, your mother and God.

So personally I would not call up to convince my mother to do that. I think that I would show support, at the same time when my fathers time is up it will happen when everything is right. I do believe that to give up hope, or trying to tell your mother that it is time to give up is wrong. 50 years is a long time to be together and I do believe that your father should be communicating this with his wife and that they both are holding on to each other. When the right time does come for him to pass, it will happen. I am so sorry for this and I hope you do not mind me writing my thoughts about this.

J9, I just want you to know that support is important and case worker and nurses have no right to try to get other people to convince your mom to do anything she does not want to do. In the end, I do believe that he will go when he is absolutely ready, I agree with Didi on this.

So, I believe just show your support. Be there in spirit. I know this is a tough spot to be in but I honestly do not feel it is your responsibility to convince your mom of anything. Your mom needs to come to that realization that your fathers wishes on her own time. The only person who will be able to get through to her, even if it takes time is your father and your father alone.

I hope that you all will have your time with your father. I hope that everybody has their healing and support of each other.

Joe

Thank you all, everyone of you, Didi, Allheart, Bluerose, Ruby, Joe, Savage, Kae, God I hope I did not forget anyone, for all of your thoughts. It is good to know that I have somewhere to vent my feelings, as I have to be strong for my family. And the worst part is that I am a very emotional person. So hard to hold the tears back.

Anyway, I spoke with Mom again and told her that I will come up in about 2 weeks, when school is finished for me and when I can get the kids all situated here. She said that my Aunt (dad's sister) was coming then and that she did not want me to come at that time.

I know this may be her way of holding on a little, so I told her that I would come up when she is ready for me. I think she may be afraid that the end will come when I am there.

We discussed her options, and she is very well aware of them. I agree that it was a terrible position that the nurse put me in. I will take this pain with me when I start working and remember never to do this to a loved one.

Thank you all so very much for the support. You have no idea how wonderful it is to have people like you there for me. I try so hard to help others that I frequently forget about myself.

Well, again I am just rambling, so I suppose I will go back to studying for my test (if I can keep my mind on it).

Thanks again friends.

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mom. She went to the hosptial today and talked to Dad. She asked him if he was ready to go and he emphatically shook his head and said NO!

So, thank you all again for your support and friendship. I know where to turn when the time does come.

You all are so wonderful.

Let us know how it all goes! Good luck with your tests and everything :)
Kristen

Thanks Brazy. I appreciate it.

I'm happy to hear that J.
I'm sure that was a big weight lifted off your shoulders.
I know this is still probably a difficult time for you, so
Please do keep us posted.
You know we're here to support you.

Go make good on your finals...
But don't forget the hot bubble bath:D

Kae

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mom. She went to the hosptial today and talked to Dad. She asked him if he was ready to go and he emphatically shook his head and said NO!!

So, thank you all again for your support and friendship. I know where to turn when the time does come.

You all are so wonderful.


Way to go Dad and way to go Mom. I just love it :). And way to go J9 for being a caring and loving daughter as well as person. Now this does not mean you can go back to neglecting yourself my friend ;)

Lots of hugs and love sent your way and special prayers being said.

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I am so glad that your Dad has decided to fight. My prayers are with all your family - for your Dad, Mom, YOU, your children, and everyone else. May that ease your own pain and grant you time to get your everything you need done at home. We always manage to do everything for everyone and not ourselves.

What lessons in courage and love and life you have given us in your postings here. Hugsss.

Janine, I cannot even attempt to answer to this as I have no clue how or if I would do as the nurses ask. I cannot imagine how weighty this is on you.

My family and entire church will pray for you - that you are able to consider this then make a decision with a clear heart and mind.

Yes, you're in my thoughts to J_9!

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. I am home in Michigan with family this weekend. It was Dad's birthday yesterday.

Mom caled from the hospital this morning and said that my brother and I should come immediately. We made it in record time. Dad has been taken off all life support and is now just being given comfort measures. He gets moprhine hourly (a new sublingual that will help with the breathing), and some breathing treatments to loosen the phlegm in his lungs, but that is all.

He is still holding his own, although he stays asleep most of the time. He did wake to see us there, he will squeeze our hands upon request.

Hopefully we will have him one more night.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers, you are a wonderful bunch of friends.

Xoxo
J

I know this is tough J. Try to find comfort in knowing that your Dad is glad you are there. It is important to both of you. Say anything that you feel needs to be said. Believe me, you will be glad you did. My heart goes out to you. My thoughts are with you.

J we all are right there with you by your side. I know you know how much we all love you.

In our prayers, thoughts and hearts.

Big hug to you and your family and special hugs for Dad.

Love you J.

Thank you for your thoughts Ruby.

It is a hard time, especially seeing my mother like this. I am ready to let go, as he has no quality of life whatsoever, but it is hard for Mom. They have been together for 50 years.

She has begun her grieving process, she questions herself about chosing the comfort measures over prolonging his life. This is all part of it though. She is making her phone calls right now to the funeral homes so that we will have someplace to send him once the inevitable comes.

We will get through this though. Sad thing about it is that I always see here on the site that women are waiting to see if they are pregnant, then they are waiting to have a baby, now we are waiting for life to come full circle and say our goodbyes. We have to wait for life, then we have to wait for death.

Sorry, was just rambling there. Had to get a little out.

You are not rambling at all J. It is perfectly normal and natural to start thinking about the circle of life at times like this. It is a way of trying to calm your thoughts and emotions and rationalize the inevitable.

I understand what your Mother is going through. You and your siblings need to help her as much as possible. She may say that she doesn't need help because that is an automatic mom response. Don't ask her what you can do for her. Just do what you see needs to be done to make things easier on her. This is just the beginning of a tough road for her. 50 years is a lifetime. She lived with him. Now she is going to be coming home to an empty house. She will need help coping. You might want to look into grief counseling for her and have the info handy when she is ready for it. Hugs & kisses to you my dearest lady.

Oh J how I feel for you and Mom and your whole family. And you are so right, you help so many with giving the gift of life, but you are doing, now as well, in a differnet way. Another beautful gift you can give someone, is the gift of a peacful and loving passing. And that is just what you and Mom are doing. That to me, is the highest sign of love.

May all be so fortunate and blessed to have someone so beautful and loving as you, by their side, when it is their time J.

Don't have a heavy heart for Dad. It is my belief, that peace, true peace awaits him. So through your tears, smile and know, that high above is shining on him. I believe that with all my heart.

Oh how my heart is with you all squeezing Dad's hand with you and holding Mom's other hand.

Much love

Bless you and your family. May you find peace and comfort in your family.

You're in my thoughts J.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. I am home in Michigan with family this weekend. It was Dad's birthday yesterday.

Mom caled from the hospital this morning and said that my brother and I should come immediately. We made it in record time. Dad has been taken off of all life support and is now just being given comfort measures. He gets moprhine hourly (a new sublingual that will help with the breathing), and some breathing treatments to loosen the phlegm in his lungs, but that is all.

He is still holding his own, although he stays asleep most of the time. He did wake to see us there, he will squeeze our hands upon request.

Hopefully we will have him one more night.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers, you are a wonderful bunch of friends.

xoxo
J

I am glad you got back home safely. It is good your able to have some time with your dad. Comfort measures are important and it is the right thing to do. Our thoughts and prayers continue to be with you and your dad and your whole family always.

Joe and Family.

Xoxoxo

J we're here for you J. Hugs...

Bless you J_9, and don't you worry about sounding a little aggravated lately. Anger is one of the stages of grief that we go through.
May a higher power give you strength.

J
I just found this thread and am sorry for your situation. I want to let you know that I and my church will be praying for you and your family.

Ruby is right about the automatic mom response and just doing what needs doing.

I would like to add something else encourage those around you to talk when you can. Encourage mom to quit being strong for "you kids" (another automatic mom thing) and to let the tears flow occasionally (even if she has to go into the bedroom for privacy and cry into the pillow). You do the same for yourself... Tears are what start the cleansing of sorrow from the soul. (That is from the Gospel of Chaplain John Chapter one verse one.)

Now I have a big favor to ask of you... Place your left hand on your right shoulder and leaving that hand in place put your right hand on your left shoulder. Now squeeze... that is a hug from me and my wife... We have a motto "Hugs Help"

Blessings,
John

It's embarrassing to watch a grown man cry but after reading your story I was jerked 20 years back in time when the retirement center my mother had lived for the previous 12 years called to say it was time for me to bring my mother home. Like your father, my mother was terminal and all I cfould do is watch day by day as she slipped away and gradually I became the parent and she became the child. I went through a world war, a few divorces, a 40 foot fall in Fort Myers in 1964 and two bouts with cancer but being a caregiver was the hardest thing I have ever done, and I'd do it all over again in a jack-flash instant. It changes you to watch a parent die. I don't know how and I can't nail it down but I've changed.
J-9, reading your story brought me to tears. Not from self pity or any thing to do with me but from the feeling that once I was where you're at now and I know how very badly you must feel.
Be strong, be brave, because I've got a hunch you're the strong one in your family and perhaps the glue that holds it together.
There! After 20 years this is the first time I've let myself think about it and share my feelings with others. My heart goes out to you, your mother and your family, you have my condolences and my well wishes. Tom

My darling J I'm so so so sorry I haven't been online for you this weekend I'm thinking of you sweety xxx

Tom, I cried while reading your story. Not so much for myself, but I cried reading the sincerity of your words. Thank you for sharing your pain so that I don't feel quite so "alone" right now.

Well, an update:

We got THE call from the hospital this morning. Dad's blood pressure was dropping as well has his heart rate and is respirations. We all rushed to the hospital, all 12 of us, and sat in the room telling stories of him and laughing till we cried.

The favorite of the family was when he was finishing our baserment years ago. He had expensive power tools in each hand. We he a light in the ceiling, you know the kind that just has a string hanging down with a little bell on it, well, he pulled on the string with his teeth to turn it off. Well, lo and behold, the string got stuck between the gap in his front teeth. He yelled and yelled for someone to come help him so he didn't have to drop his tools. Well, I guess you had to be there. LOL

Anyway, his BP and heart rate increased. Mom said he just wanted attention.

So, goody goody gumdrops, (LOL AH), we have one more day with him. Will be going back this evening to see how he is doing.

Thank you all for your concern, it is appreciated more than you will ever know.

It's a shame we can't do more than write words but you know I'm with you xxx

It's embarrassing to watch a grown man cry but after reading your story I was jerked 20 years back in time when the retirement center my mother had lived for the previous 12 years called to say it was time for me to bring my mother home. Like your father, my mother was terminal and all I cfould do is watch day by day as she slipped away and gradually i became the parent and she became the child. I went through a world war, a few divorces, a 40 foot fall in Fort Myers in 1964 and two bouts with cancer but being a caregiver was the hardest thing I have ever done, and I'd do it all over again in a jack-flash instant. It changes you to watch a parent die. I don't know how and I can't nail it down but I've changed.
J-9, reading your story brought me to tears. Not from self pity or any thing to do with me but from the feeling that once I was where you're at now and I know how very badly you must feel.
Be strong, be brave, because I've got a hunch you're the strong one in your family and perhaps the glue that holds it together.
There! After 20 years this is the first time I've let myself think about it and share my feelings with others. My heart goes out to you, your mother and your family, you have my condolences and my well wishes. Tom


Oh Tom, yours brought me to tears as well. And I know brought Janine comfort. I don't cry tears of sadness for either one of you, but great great great pride and such a touching tribute and gift to give so much, to make sure peace is had, when a loved one's last days are near.

Oh how your words did my heart good and I am sure Janines too. Having so much trouble trying to convey what I am feeling in my heart after reading what you so generosuly shared with Janine. Thank you so much for doing that.

Hiya,

I do feel for you. My parents have been married for 40 years this year, and last August my father had a stroke. He has been living in hospitals and care homes since and is due to move back home with us (I have bought a house with my parents so I can help out with him) next week. Dad is totally sound of mind, but his body is crippled, and my mum bless her just can't get it into her head that dad won't be getting better, she is still talking about when he is walking and looking after himself and going out and about with him, whereas the reality is a lifetime now of 6 a day carer visits and totally housebound. My dad has to have his leg amputated soon as he is diabetic and it is very infected, and dad is fine about it but mum is refusing to accept it will ever happen. The doctors have also said there is a good chance he won't come out of the operation. I think when couples have been together so long they can't let go, its down to us kids to get them through it. Good luck to you. I wish I could offer you more advice. Certainly mention it to your mum, test the water, she may just be hoping you give your permission in some way, if that makes sense.

Hiya,

I do feel for you. My parents have been married for 40 years this year, and last August my father had a stroke. He has been living in hospitals and care homes since and is due to move back home with us (I have bought a house with my parents so I can help out with him) next week. Dad is totally sound of mind, but his body is crippled, and my mum bless her just can't get it into her head that dad wont be getting better, she is still talking about when he is walking and looking after himself and going out and about with him, whereas the reality is a lifetime now of 6 a day carer visits and totally housebound. My dad has to have his leg amputated soon as he is diabetic and it is very infected, and dad is fine about it but mum is refusing to accept it will ever happen. The drs have also said there is a good chance he wont come out of the operation. I think when couples have been together so long they can't let go, its down to us kids to get them through it. Good luck to you. I wish I could offer you more advice. Certainly mention it to your mum, test the water, she may just be hoping you give your permission in some way, if that makes sense.


Squiffy - I promise you, it will be okay. The right words, and strength will come to you. Mom will be okay too. She will get to the place that she needs to when she is able to and ready. Just be a good ear for her and let her feel in control as much as you can. Been in something oh so similar and familiar. I do promise you, although long, tiring and difficult, it all will workout and be okay. It's amazing how much family love can see you through. Will keep you and your family in my thoughts.

Janine, that is good that you are all together with him as a family.

Too many families do not like facing up to what is happening and many people end up passing away being lonely and sad.

At least your all there as a family and you are all having precious time and sharing memories together.

I think you are all beautiful and I wish I could say more and do more at this time for you. I am there, and our whole family is there with you in spirit.

Joe and family.
Xxxooo

Thank you Squiffy for sharing your story. It is hard to watch a loved one go from completely independent to completely dependent.

We have made funeral arraingments. The priest at Mom's church was wonderful and got her in touch with a local funeral director. You see mom and dad live on a fixed income and have little money for a funeral. The funeral director then told mom not to worry about costs, as he would absorb the costs of the funeral himself, and to just enjoy the last few moments she has with him.

I felt that was an enormous jesture of kind humanity in her time of need. Apparently this funeral director is helpful to the elderly in this community. What a wonderful man with such a kind heart to be able to do this for our family.

Dearest Janine, my deepest sympathies and special prayers for you and your family. Wish we could all be there to stand with you. You being there with your Mom and Dad was important for them and for you. What a blessing in the funeral director. Not often you find one so compassionate.

Hugs and wish I couild do more but you are in my thoughts and prayers every day.

Time goes on
We all get old
It won't take long
Or so I'm told
Happy memories
Cloud my eyes
Childhood fantasy's
Of days gone by
Lifes bumps and brusies
We've all shared
Young at heart
We never cared
We grew up and moved away
Back again we are this day
We have gathered
Tear in eye
With heavy hearts
We do cry
In strength of memory
And fear of soul
A family of blood
And one of friends
Bound in circle
Love never ends
We are here
To help you through
Because we all care
And love you too
Cry on our shoulders
Ease the pain
We are family
All the same.

Myth
Is that an original piece?
If it is I would like permission to add it to my file of poetry that I use during funerals.

It's very original you won't find it on paper anywhere. This is the first and only copy thus far. If you think it will help someone Chaplain John then by all means yes you can use it. I wrote it for J because I wanted to be able to express my feelings and this is the best way I know how. I hope that it can help anyone the hears it.

Janine you know where I stand on this issue. I am with you heart and soul and in spirit. Although you dad has bouts of dementia he has not been declared incompetent. He can still make decisions for himself. He stated he was done and fought the good fight. He is in essence telling everyone he doesn't want to fight any more but rest.
When we say a person is a dnr (do not recussitate) the family immediately panics and thinks that means do not treat or care. There is also comfort care. Allot of time these aren't explained to the family the way they should be. I had a doctor walk into a patients room while he was on the vent. He stood in the door way and yelled do you want to be a code or a no code? Needless to say I almost hit him in the back of the head with a chart. That was both callous and cruel.
The nurse and the social worker are putting undo pressure on you and your mother to make a decision your father already made. He's been quite clear in his wishes. He can talk with the doctor and the doctor can write the orders. He won't be taken off the vent if he's made a comfort care or no code.
Your mom has been with him for so long. She's having trouble facing life without him. She's also afraid she'll make the wrong decision. A little moral support from you will go allong way. You can't force her to make a decision she isn't ready to make. Butif she sees your dad has already made his decision and if everything is explained to her gently and compassionately, I'm sure she'll do the right thing.
The nurse and social worker need to get a grip. Why are they pushing this when the doctor is the one who has to write the orders and not them. What if your mom decides and they can't get the doc intime to write everyhting. Nurses can't write or take verbal orders for dnr or comfort care status. The doc needs to write a progresss note and sign it. And write the order.
As soon as you arrive there and catch your breath, you and your mom talk allone. Then you make arrangements to talk with the doctor. Leave out the social worker and the nurse. In fact ask for the nurse to be reassigned that she is putting too much pressure on the family. Be asserttive. Or call me.

Wow myth,

You wrote that yourself just now? Amazing gift. Beautiful words. Brought me to tears and helped me remember that things isn't that bad after all.

Thank you for sharing!

Just an update. Dad passed today at 2:30 pm. He went peacefully after a bath, LOL, in his sleep.

Now comes the healing process.

Thank you all for your thoughts, prayers and friendship. I could not ask for any better friends than I have here. You all are wonderful.

Thank you Janine, for letting us all know. It sounds like he passed away very peacefully and happy, especially having family so close to him.

Thinking of you all at this time. Prayers and friendship will always be there for you and your family.

Joe

EDIT: Hugs from all of us too. Superbaby and superbaby family.

Love you hunny sending you lots and lots of hugs and millie ones too xxxxxx

You know the sloppy pitbull kisses will be waiting for you when you get back. I am glad that you all were able to get there in time and be with him. I know it meant the world to him. Love you J. xxxooo

Thank goodness no one had to make that decision you were worrying over.

Will be keeping you in my thoughts.

~hugs~
~hugs~
My deepest sympathies to you J_9. I too watched my parent (mom) pass by into God's hands.
I have been reading the posts here.
My thoughts, prayers & love are yours & your family, as this new phase of life begins..
God bless you all & bring you peace & grace. May His loving arms surround you and comfort you.
Moomin

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/AKaeTrue/ththThoughtsAndPrayers-1.gif

J we love you so much.

Thank you for sharing Dad with us. I just know he is resting and will now and forever be beside watching over our girl.

I just love you so much. Hugs to Mom and your entire family.

Love you now and always.

You are continually in our prayers, J. My heart goes out to you and your family in sympathy and love. May God grant you all that you need and more. Hugs from the Barney Family.

Enveloping you in hugs from AMHD, Janine. There are just no words to express how I feel. Always here for you sweetie (except when that old computer acts up like last night! GRRRRR). You are right, though... now the healing process begins.

Love, Didi

You are all so wonderful. I didn't cry until I read a PM from Laura, yeah, thanks Laura, tears from a couple thousand miles away and I cry too. LOL, Goes to show you how close two peas in a pod are.

As my beautiful friend AllHeart stated so eloquently, "there are no reddies in heaven." LOL Thanks for that memory AH

Shy, my special Barney Family, you know just how special you are in my heart. I Love You, You Love Me. LOL

Kae, the card is beautiful. We can always count on you for beautiful visualizations.

Moomin, my new friend. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

Joe and Superbaby family, you know you have a special place in my heart. I thank you too for being such a wonderful friend.

Now for you Didi. The computer, LOL, technology huh? Sometimes we love it and others, well... I understand how it goes. I can hardly get a cell phone signal here, so it is hard to call the ones I love. I have felt a connection to you from the start.

Oh, Ruby, love the wet sloppy kisses. They are great for a laugh when I just want to cry. LOL And just looking at you staring at me in that silly little party hat just warms my heart.

Em, you have become a wonderful part of the AMHD family too. Yes, it was nice that we did not have to make any decisions, that was going to be our next step after he slipped into the coma.

And Laura, you are just you and I love you.

If I missed anyone, please forgive me. I am here just trying to keep my mind occupied right now.

Hugs and coffee.

I just want to echo everyone else words here J. Your in my thoughts and it is an inspiration to 'see' how you have handled this situation with such dignity and strength. Your dad sure did raise a great girl!

Myth, thanks for the hugs and coffee, can I have mine with some Baileys in it please?

Skell, thank you for your kind words. Glad you see my strength, I knew it was in there somewhere. Sad that it sometimes takes something like this to bring it to the surface.

I will, however, remember how my father was treated by his caregivers during his last days and take that with me when I begin to pracitice nursing. I will remember the good and use it for my patients, I will remember the bad and vow to never treat anyone in such a way.

AH, CBW, and Ruby, thank you all for your calls today. You really have no idea how special you are to me.

Any way you want it hun...

Janine
May God wrap you and yours up in his loving arms; pick you up and carry you through this dark time into the light and joy that surely is ahead.
Prayers and Blessings,
John

Just an update. Dad passed today at 2:30 pm. He went peacefully after a bath, LOL, in his sleep.

Now comes the healing process.

Thank you all for your thoughts, prayers and friendship. I could not ask for any better friends than I have here. You all are wonderful.

I am so sorry for your loss. I disappeared myself for a while myself for the same reasons. I have suffered 4 losses in less then 6 weeks time. 2 aunts (my dad's sister here in California and my mom's little sister in Mexico) a beloved elderly neighbor and an old acquaintance.

Janine, words cannot express my sympathy. I've been there, I know the loss of a father. The pain, the sadness and even some feelings of hopelessness tend to linger. I will continue to pray for you and your family that the Lord will bring you peace and comfort as only he can. Lucky you that you had him as long as you did, blessed is more like it. If you're a believer, then you will see him again and he will not be sick, but the fun loving dad you remember.

All my love to you!

Thank you for your heartfelt sympathies. It was a blessing that he is gone. I am sure in my heart now he is playing golf on evergreen courses, and riding his horses that he loved so dearly. I will see him again, he will be whole and healthy.

MC, I am sorry for your losses. It must be horrendous suffering so many losses in such a short period. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers as well. Just as you said to me, know that the Lord will give you peace and comfort.

My love to you MC!!

Janine - How can one cry and laugh all at the same time? Try reading your post and looking at your ridiculous Sponge Bob Square Pants Avatar who just so happens to be one of my husband's heroes and secretly one of mine, just don't tell my hubby...

Thanks!

LOL, I have been doing a lot of laugh-crying lately. We are a very happy family, we play practical jokes on one another, etc etc, Every time someone crys about dad's death, another one of us cracks a joke.

Now, please don't anyone take this as crass but at the visitation Mom was carressing the urn, saying goodbye to Dad, then she looks up at me and says, and I kid you not "This would make a good doorstop!!!" I said "MOM!!!!" She said "Dad made me say it." You see, Dad's nickname was joker.

And Spongebob is a friend of mine too. LOL


Janine - How can one cry and laugh all at the same time? Try reading your post and looking at your ridiculous Sponge Bob Square Pants Avatar Thank you for pointing that out. PMSL!!

I see now how it is hard to take me seriously.

I think Rubypit is so right, you mom has been with your dad so long she won't accept any idea like the hospital is suggesting, I'm sure. You have to be there and check it out for yourself and then have a heart to heart. Sorry to hear all this J9 if you need anything let me know!

Loveless, I am sorry to tell you that my father passed almost two weeks ago. I was there and luckily we did not have to make a choice as his kidneys eventually failed him.

Thank you for your thoughts though, it was very kind of you to respond.

It all depends what person your father is to you if you care about him stay strong with it but this is a bad thing I've got to tell


Your father will die soon there is no rescue unless you get back his will to live there is absolutely no thing that shall keep him alive I do not wish to say much either and I understand your frustration (I lost my dad at my age of 10)


He must have had a hard life but he must also have done things wrong which he rgrets it all comes back to you in the end and he has lost his will to live I am sorry for saying this but be prepared for pain

Yet be happy he lived so long and that you have a dad at your age mine had 56 when he died


You see there is still hope that he will live yet I dare not say the probabilities


But do not take all discourage in what I say I am a lot younger then you think fysically I am not yet an adult I might be wrong but the chances for that are minimal



Be strong help your father all you can if you love him, you do not have to give everything up since you only can take off 4 days a year






But your dad must have the will to live I know your mother wants to support him but I don't think she is ready for his death he can die anytime but there is still hope so do not give up the thing you must concentrate on is his will to live his fysical health is the doctors job

You see there is still hope that he will live yet i dare not say the probabilities Thank you for your thoughts, but if you read the entire thread you would have noticed that he passed on June 6. So, unfortunately there is not still hope for him. He is at rest now.

Again, thank you for your thoughts, but please read entire threads before providing answers that may be incorrect or painful to the OP.

J_9 I'm so sorry to read of your families loss ! At least your father is in peace now in a much better place than this earth.

You and your family will be in my prayers.

Thank you Bubbler, your sympathies are greatly appreciated.

Yes, he is at peace and with his Lord now.

Okay, all said and most of what is said I feel for you too, even though don't know you a heck of a lot.

I was where you are two years ago and signed a DNR for my mom after putting her in a nursing home after taking care of her for seven years and going financially unstable doing it. She understood, she was not that far gone and we had discussed it. Although after getting her on the waiting list and waiting and waiting and something coming up and saying, sorry, not ready to let her go away from me yet, I did it. She was gone within a year of going into care. I loved her to pieces, there was only her and me like forever.

Now you know I am with you from reading here. Can you over-ride your mom with a Power of Attorney and put a DNR in place for just a little white lie. You probably know how badly your dad needs to move on. That was hard to say, J-9 and then you have to let them go in your mind and heart and that takes like forever and a day, but we all have to do this.

I only feel the best for you and your plight. God this is hard to do. Hugs.

I am really sorry, but it seems as though no one has read the entire post here.

Dad is gone!! No I cannot over-ride a Power of Attorney and put a DNR in place as he is DEAD!!

Did any of you read this? I understand your thoughts and prayers and I totally and completely appreciate them, however, all of your suggestions are mute at this point.

Dad is gone, he passed almost 3 weeks now.

So there is no hope for his life any longer... No decisions have to be made any longer.

You see we said our goodbyes, he was cremated, we had a visitation and a funeral... He was buried in a Military Cemetery.

Please if you learn one thing from this thread, and this thread alone, it is please read every post in a thread as details change, circumstances change.

I am sorry for what happened I feel for you I lost my dad when I was ten so I know what you're going through yet the suffering is gone think on it I had lost everything there on my dad the only thought was he's not suffering I guess that's what kept me from being torn apart

J - I am sure that as people post on this thread it is difficult for you. I ache for you, sweetie, I really do. I think sometimes when a thread gets to be pages and pages long that people just read the top of the page and feel the need to respond with their hearts first, not their heads. I am sure that the responses are meant to help and heal, and I am just as sure that deep down you know this. Perhaps you should unsubscribe from the thread, hun, so you don't have to keep facing these types of responses right now. You can always come back to read the entire thread when you are stronger.

I love you, J_9... things WILL get better.

Love, Didi

Thank you Didi for your heartfelt response. I know you are right that folks just read the intro and feel the need to help. Yes, I do get frustrated when this happens.

Rather than unsubscribe from this thread I will now close it.

Again all. Thank you all for your caring and thoughtful help. It means a lot to me.