30 years ago, if a public library had brought in drag queens for a reading time for children, the library would have been in trouble with the law. Now, when a public library in Canada does that, the guy who protests is arrested. How far we have fallen.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canadian-pastor-arrested-second-time-protesting-childrens-drag-queen-events-sick-twisted-perversion

Not true about your "30 years ago"! People weren't as uptight and "the law" was more open-minded.

Public libraries have always loved to put on all sorts of presentations that appeal to their patrons' ranges of interests and introduce them and the public to new experiences.

Public libraries have always loved to put on all sorts of presentations that appeal to their patrons' ranges of interests and introduce them and the public to new experiences.


Not in the town I lived in ;and not in the town I live now.

Not in the town I lived in ;and not in the town I live now.
Then they aren't true public libraries. Probably not members of ALA (the national library organization) either.

It wasn't true in anyone's town 30 years ago. That anyone would present a bunch of men dressing up as women to young children and consider that normal is criminal in my view. At the least, they should lose their jobs. Instead, the protestor is arrested. Incredible.

I was employed by a public library back then. No problem with drag queens. You shudda seen how some of our patrons and visitors were dressed!

Why on earth would drag queens reading to kids in a public library be criminal?

I don't believe the public library you worked in was bringing in drag queens to read to children. Not thirty years ago.

Because it is portraying that which is obscene and improper as being normal, and doing that to impressionable young children.

The world is sick and getting sicker

We definitely would have allowed drag queens to have storytime in the YP department. We would have even welcomed Flip Wilson as Geraldine Jones and Robin Williams as Mrs. Doubtfire.

When I worked evenings, I sometimes chatted a bit with an older woman who often came in to do research. "She" was a male college professor in a nearby town.

I remember another younger, nicely dressed woman who came into the ladies' washroom as I was putting in new rolls of t.p. and paper towels. "Her" deep male voice alerted me. We debated whether the t.p. should flow over the top of the roll or hang behind it. We agreed on the latter.

Because it is portraying that which is obscene and improper as being normal, and doing that to impressionable young children.
What about it is obscene and improper?

"Impressionable children"??? You don't realize how much children love to pretend and dress up?

Children play all sorts of games. Boys play shoot-em-up, but we don't bring convicted murderers in to read to them.

Obscene? Yeah, I'd say so. It's hardly an image we want our children being encouraged to emulate.

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Children play all sorts of games. Boys play shoot-em-up, but we don't bring convicted murderers in to read to them.
Convicted murderers??? By your rules, boys should only be reading their Bible story book.

Obscene? Yeah, I'd say so. It's hardly an image we want our children being encouraged to emulate.
Please find and choose the most obscene, scary, most ridiculous photo possible.

Too bad you haven't had much experience being around children. They love scary stuff -- stories, people, adventures like going through the haunted house during Halloween. Of course, responsible adults warn them and talk about it beforehand.

Convicted murderers??? By your rules, boys should only be reading their Bible story book.Another of your incredibly off-base misreadings.


Too bad you haven't had much experience being around children.
Yeah. Only 34 years as a teacher and principal, most of them with K-6 kids. So your comment is absurd.

Leave it to you to bury your head in the sand. Leave it to you to defend this madness.

49435

Another of your incredibly off-base misreadings.
Somebody has to call you on your ridiculous posts.

Yeah. Only 34 years as a teacher and principal, most of them with K-6 kids. So your comment is absurd.
I've had more years of experience with children plus in a variety of locations.

Leave it to you to bury your head in the sand. Leave it to you to defend this madness.
There is no madness. I wonder how you have fun -- maybe stacking empty pop cans or shooting defenseless birds and squirrels?

I've had more years of experience with children plus in a variety of locations.Unsurprisingly, a completely inaccurate comment. I'd have several hundred children every day.


There is no madness.Not in your mind, I suppose. For everyone else...

49436


I wonder how you have fun Not like you. You can be sure of that. Martin Luther would disown you.

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I just wonder what idiot came up with this idea. Was he/she just sitting around one day and thought, "Wouldn't it be a wholesome, productive activity to bring in a man garishly and obscenely dressed like a woman and let him read to the kiddos?"

I still want to know why you deleted your post.

Women dress like men. Does your wife wear pants and a t-shirt or do you forbid it?

Did you not look at those photos for even two seconds? And you really want to compare that to women wearing pants and t-shirts designed and made for women? Good grief.

Why did you delete your post? Why are you afraid to answer that simple question?

That's NOT how drag queens look when they go to public libraries.

Why are you obsessing over a post I deleted?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/American_Horror_Story_Season_4.jpg

This is what you are so enthusiastically defending. Perhaps you need to do some research on what a drag queen is? These pics are all over the internet.

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49441

Just wondering why you would delete a fairly harmless post. You are, as usual, reluctant to answer, so we move on.

This is what you are so enthusiastically defending. Perhaps you need to do some research on what a drag queen is? These pics are all over the internet.

49440

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Those poor kids!!! Running away, crying, screaming!!! How dare the library be so cruel!!

First you tried this. "That's NOT how drag queens look when they go to public libraries." Having failed utterly in that attempt, now you are suggesting that as long as people don't run away crying and screaming, then everything is fine. Well, young boys don't run away crying and screaming when exposed to hard porn, but that is hardly acceptable. They don't run away crying and screaming when exposed to racism, but that's not acceptable either. Your thinking is not logical on this issue, especially considering that no one suggested these people are scary. I said they were, "garishly and obscenely dressed like a woman."

But I do understand why you are grasping at straws. When straws are all you have, then you grasp them.

First you tried this. "That's NOT how drag queens look when they go to public libraries."
The children know what will be presented and have seen photos of drag queens. And at libraries, it's a sign-up presentation with no surprises.

I see. So as long as the parents agree to it, then it's OK?

I see. So as long as the parents agree to it, then it's OK?
What's the harm anyway??? The kids and parents all thoroughly enjoy the presentations.

Are people who dress up as a rabbit (Bugs Bunny) or pirate or cowboy on Halloween, e.g., scary and trying to attract children into their lair?

So you would be fine with libraries presenting "reading times" involving the Christian faith, or hard core porn, or pro-life materials, or the greatness of drug abuse? Since these never seem to occur, why do you suppose so many libraries have seized upon these obscene people?

Please learn to read. No one has suggested these strange people are "scary" or are trying to "attract children into their lair".

What is obscene about them?


Please learn to read. No one has suggested these strange people are "scary" or are trying to "attract children into their lair".
You've mentioned the children are being "groomed".

What is obscene? Look at the pictures.


You've mentioned the children are being "groomed".
Nope. I've done no such thing. Your reading skills fail you yet again.

And again. "So you would be fine with libraries presenting "reading times" involving the Christian faith, or hard core porn, or pro-life materials, or the greatness of drug abuse? Since these never seem to occur, why do you suppose so many libraries have seized upon these obscene people?"

What is obscene? Look at the pictures.
Obscene? How?

And again. "So you would be fine with libraries presenting "reading times" involving the Christian faith, or hard core porn, or pro-life materials, or the greatness of drug abuse? Since these never seem to occur, why do you suppose so many libraries have seized upon these obscene people?"
Please read up on and get clear about the mission and purpose of public libraries. You have a very strange notion of what public libraries are.

Words cannot convey how glad I am that I'm not the one defending this.

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And again. "So you would be fine with libraries presenting "reading times" involving the Christian faith, or hard core porn, or pro-life materials, or the greatness of drug abuse? Since these never seem to occur, why do you suppose so many libraries have seized upon these obscene people?"

You are so funny. Why is it you are so reluctant to address difficult questions?

So the purpose of libraries is to popularize the behavior of sick people amongst children?

That's not obscene. Tell me what's obscene about it?

And I answered that question: "Please read up on and get clear about the mission and purpose of public libraries. You have a very strange notion of what public libraries are."

Why are you having such trouble reading my replies? I suspect you are eager for a fight and doing what you can to make it happen.

What's obscene? I guess for someone like you who reads and enjoys porn, the definition of "obscene" is pretty diluted.

Telling someone else to do research is not answering a question. Please stop lying. You did not answer the question as you fully well know. "So you would be fine with libraries presenting "reading times" involving the Christian faith, or hard core porn, or pro-life materials, or the greatness of drug abuse? Since these never seem to occur, why do you suppose so many libraries have seized upon these obscene people?"


You have a very strange notion of what public libraries are."I've never told you what I think, "public libraries are", so how would you know if my "notion" is strange or not?

I'm not interested in a fight at all. We can drop it if you want to, but I get irritated with someone like you who runs from meaningful questions and then, shall we say, "fibs" about having answered it. A little serious honesty on your part would be welcome.

I'm finished here. You have gone totally off into weirdness and meanness. Jesus is frowning.

That's fine. However, some periods of honesty do not equate to meanness.

Watched three videos this morning. One was of a Cambodian couple who came to the U.S. with nothing and became successful making donuts. Another was about a Vietnam vet. The third was of a milkman who would not cut off customers with children who could not pay their bills. There are thousands of people out there like that, but instead of bringing them in to read to children, libraries go out and find men with sick minds who want to dress up like women in the most gaudy, lurid manner possible.

instead of bringing them in to read to children,
Libraries do, plus offer special programs for adults and for children that identify and promote such people as movers and doers in our communities.

When you bring in men garishly dressed as women, you miss a golden opportunity to bring in someone who is actually worthy of emulation and who can inspire kids to live great lives.

When you bring in men garishly dressed as women, you miss a golden opportunity to bring in someone who is actually worthy of emulation and who can inspire kids to live great lives.
The kids love that "garish" parade, will laugh and clap and wave their arms in glee, then listen quietly as they are read to. Drag queens inspire us to have fun dressing up and pretending to be something we're not -- like both boys and girls dressing up as Louise or Daniel Tiger.

The kids love that "garish" parade, will laugh and clap and wave their arms in gleeThat's why we call them "children". They will also "laugh and clap and wave their arms in glee" as they run across a busy street. It is our job as adults to protect them and not expose them to what is nothing better than nonsense and in reality much worse.

With the many options available for quality, accomplished adults to read to children, it's ridiculous to choose a bunch of men dressed up as women. It's nothing less than a thinly veiled effort to promote that which is disgusting as being normal. "Hey boys, maybe someday you can grow up and wear a dress!!"

49444

It is our job as adults to protect them and not expose them to what is nothing better than nonsense and in reality much worse.
There is no thteat, no danger. And you haven't watched tv much lately, have you. Even the cartoons can be scary. Roadrunner jumping off a cliff into the abyss! Daffy getting smashed by a train.

With the many options available for quality, accomplished adults to read to children, it's ridiculous to choose a bunch of men dressed up as women.
Yeah, and this happens at least once a week at every public library. Bwahahaha!

It's nothing less than a thinly veiled effort to promote that which is disgusting as being normal. "Hey boys, maybe someday you can grow up and wear a dress!!"
You've never worn a dress or makeup or a wig for fun? That's what this is -- fun! Oh, yeah, I forgot....

There is no thteat, no dangerOnly in your view.


Yeah, and this happens at least once at week at every public library. Bwahahaha!
Not in ours.


You've never worn a dress or makeup or a wig for fun?
I know this is going to come as a great shocker for you, but the country, thankfully, is still filled with many men who don't regard wearing dresses or makeup as "fun". I would be in that group, so the answer is no. There are still men who just want to be men unlike those two in the pic above.

Only in your view.
And in the view of many other fun-loving, open-minded people!


Not in ours.
I was being facetious.

I know this is going to come as a great shocker for you, but the country, thankfully, is still filled with many men who don't regard wearing dresses or makeup as "fun". I would be in that group, so the answer is no. There are still men who just want to be men unlike those two in the pic above.
And the women who wear pants and a t-shirt and NO makeup? Ewwwww!!! Stay away from them! They must be "transformers"!!!

Those women who wear women's pants and women's t-shirts are not parading around as men and labeling themselves as "drag queens". Surely you can think better than that.

Women belong in dresses or skirts! It shows their subservience to men and shows that they are always "available"! (Told to me by Christian men)

Just a foolish statement.

Those women who wear women's pants and women's t-shirts
I order mine from the Eddie Bauer catalog, in the men's section. They're very comfortable.

Last time I wore a dress was Christmas 1974.


Just a foolish statement.
But CHRISTIAN men told me that in no uncertain terms!!!

If you are going to the public library garishly dressed as a man, then I would have a problem with that. Otherwise, I have no idea why you even bring it up.

I don't care what Christian men told you. We are talking about this, so I do see why you keep trying to change the subject since you enthusiastically support it. If I supported that, then I'd change the subject too.

49446

If you are going to the public library garishly dressed as a man, then I would have a problem with that. Otherwise, I have no idea why you even bring it up.
Many of the women employees wear pants and knit shirts or cotton blouses. Lots of bending and stretching and reaching and climbing on stepstools and even ladders. Dresses aren't functional, are unnecessary, are even annoying.

I just don't understand your discomfort. Wearing a costume for a fun occasion brings children (and adults) happiness and laughter and encourages open-mindedness.

You love it and I don't. That's where it stands.

49448

You love it and I don't. That's where it stands.
I repeat: I just don't understand your discomfort. Wearing a costume for a fun occasion brings children (and adults) happiness and laughter and encourages open-mindedness.

Like I said. You love it. To support exposing children to this perverse sight is your choice.

49450

And you still haven't explained rationally what's wrong with it.

Would you rather they dressed up as pirates or bank robbers?

If you can't look at that pic and see it, then there's no help for you.

Would you rather they dressed up as pirates or bank robbers?

P.S. There's nothing to see!!! Just fun! And many are straight, btw. Marlene Dietrich did it.
https://ctl.s6img.com/society6/img/-LhsPjNRWiinxudnOSfnp8blnXY/w_1500/posters/top/~artwork,fw_2718,fh_3618,fx_-638,iw_3993,ih_3618/s6-original-art-uploads/society6/uploads/misc/2415486392484a3bbc103892dea42018/~~/marlene-dietrich-drag-posters.jpg
Women who dress as men and entertain by imitating them are called drag kings.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Sackville_Gardens.jpg/260px-Sackville_Gardens.jpg

So your case is based on an actress dressed like a man and smoking a cigarette? Well...OK then. It's all on you. Just glad I'm not the one having to make that absurd case. But even at that, neither of those poor souls was paraded before young children and presented as being normal, so your case just completely fell apart.

There's no joy in your life, is there. No fun, no imagination, no happy anticipation.

Please read If God is Love, Please Don't Be a Jerk by John Pavlovitz.

There's no joy in your life, is there. No fun, no imagination, no happy anticipation.I'm with my granddaughter, wife, daughter, and son in law, so I have lots of joy. I'm with Jesus always, so that's plenty of joy. Now granted I'm not watching a perverted drag-queen reading hour for children, so you've got me there.


Please read If God is Love, Please Don't Be a Jerk by John Pavlovitz.Too late. You've already brought that up before. I'll tell you what I told you then. He's as big a jerk as I've seen just from his treatment of evangelicals in his book, so he would need to first take his own advice before giving it out to others. And for that matter, WG could take some advice about not being a jerk. If she did, she would not post, "There's no joy in your life, is there. No fun, no imagination, no happy anticipation."

WG could take some advice about not being a jerk. If she did, she would not post, "There's no joy in your life, is there. No fun, no imagination, no happy anticipation."
WG is only paying you back for the incredibly nasty comments you've made to her (and others).

And as usual, it's someone else's fault. I would suggest you take responsibility for your own actions.

And as usual, it's someone else's fault. I would suggest you take responsibility for your own actions.
I will if you will. Want to start over?

We can try, but this subject has been exhausted.

As for drag queen appearances at public libraries, they are considered programs and people who want to attend must sign up. The children who attend, the younger ones usually with parents, have talked with their parents about what they will see and expect at the program -- songs sung, finger plays done, picture books read, accompanied by laughter and fun memories.

Does the photo you have posted several times show children tied to their chairs, tears flowing, screaming in fear?

As for drag queen appearances at public libraries, they are considered programs and people who want to attend must sign up. The children who attend, the younger ones usually with parents, have talked with their parents about what they will see and expect at the program -- songs sung, finger plays done, picture books read, accompanied by laughter and fun memories.You know this how?


Does the photo you have posted several times show children tied to their chairs, tears flowing, screaming in fear?This has been answered fully on two occasions already. I will not answer it again.

You know this how?
I know this from working in public libraries for 30 years. A drag queen appearance would be considered a program that had been approved by the library board and arranged by the person(s) in charge of programs.

It would NOT be a spontaneous appearance in the Youth Department.

So you know what YOU would have done, but have no idea what the other hundreds of libraries across the county are doing.

But even at that, presenting these perverted men to children as something that is ordinary and natural is, in my view, criminal.

49452

So you know what YOU would have done, but have no idea what the other hundreds of libraries across the county are doing.
Yes, most public libraries belong to the American Library Association and follow its rules and outlines for running a public library.

Drag queens don't just burst through the library's front doors and begin their performance!

But even at that, presenting these perverted men to children as something that is ordinary and natural is, in my view, criminal.

Oh, those poor tortured kids! P.S. Those aren't "perverted men". I have dear friends in the LGBTQ+ community. I'm in regular contact with a high school boyfriend who is now married to his husband. Delightful man!

P.S. Those aren't "perverted men". I have dear friends in the LGBTQ+ community. I'm in regular contact with a high school boyfriend who is now married to his husband. Delightful man!A man who habitually dresses up as a woman in a lewd and garish manner is a pervert.

I know, and am friends with, a number of gay individuals. They are just like everyone else...sinners. We are to love sinners, but we are not to excuse their sins.

A man who habitually dresses up as a woman in a lewd and garish manner is a pervert.
It isn't "habitual"; it's an occasional thing for a presentation. Reminds me of the dressing up a pastor or priest does when leading a church service. Or monks in a monastery.

I know, and am friends with, a number of gay individuals. They are just like everyone else...sinners. We are to love sinners, but we are not to excuse their sins.
You and I are also sinners. And, don't forget, Jesus said we are to love one another.

It isn't "habitual"; it's an occasional thing for a presentation.That's not true.

Yes, we are also sinners. Do you excuse your own sin as you excuse the sins of others? Is it a loving act to convince people that living outside the will of God is OK?

That's not true.
Yes, it is true. They dress like that for special programs and presentations.

Yes, we are also sinners. Do you excuse your own sin as you excuse the sins of others? Is it a loving act to convince people that living outside the will of God is OK?
I have no clue what you're talking about, especially in reference to what I had posted.

The completely, totally predictable next step. The drag queen strip hour at a public library. I'm sure you will completely approve of this as well.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2019/october/librarys-drag-queen-story-hour-strip-show-goes-viral

You can also read there about the library that brought in a convicted sex offender to read to the kiddos. I'm sure that will also be approved of.


I have no clue what you're talking about, especially in reference to what I had posted.You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just your usual dodge of a subject that you have no answers for.

The completely, totally predictable next step. The drag queen strip hour at a public library. I'm sure you will completely approve of this as well.
2019?????

You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just your usual dodge of a subject that you have no answers for.
Nope, I have no clue. It must be your "evangelistic" self talking.

2019?????When I posted it, I knew you would never be critical of something like that. Sure enough!!


Nope, I have no clue. It must be your "evangelistic" self talking.
You understand this completely. My fifth graders would have understood it. " Do you excuse your own sin as you excuse the sins of others? Is it a loving act to convince people that living outside the will of God is OK?" You never, ever, ever answer questions that make you uncomfortable. It's been true on dozens of occasions in the past and it remains true now.

When I posted it, I knew you would never be critical of something like that. Sure enough!!
CBN News! Bwahahahaha!!!

I haven't excused anyone's sin, even yours, but I don't hold it against you. And Jesus still loves you.

Even a complete blithering idiot could watch the video and see what was happening. Instead, you take a convenient escape route. Pitiful.

(No, I am not calling you a blithering idiot.)

Strange how quickly you went from, "I have no clue," to being able to offer a reply. Interesting.

Even a complete blithering idiot could watch the video and see what was happening. Instead, you take a convenient escape route. Pitiful.
2019 and the source. Yucky! It's in the print.

2019 and the source. Yucky!Nothing sums you up more than this. CBN news is "yucky", but a drag-queen strip show before children warrants no comment. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

I watched the video. There was no stripping.

In the article:

"Drag Queen Storytime" or "Drag Queen Story Hour" is an initiative typically held at public libraries in which drag performers read books to children. Program advocates say they are important literacy programs that help teach children tolerance for members of the LGBTQ community.

I watched the video. There was no stripping.Then you had your eyes closed.


important literacy programs that help teach children tolerance for members of the LGBTQ community.And thus the real objective comes out. It has nothing to do with children reading. It has everything to do with liberals want to influence children with their pro-gay propaganda.

I wonder how many times pastors are called in for a "story time" in order to present the Biblical view?

The Biblical view? What is that?

(Watched it again. No stripping. Just evangelicals trying to paint drag queens with a tar-covered brush.)

God is gender-fluid, btw.

The Biblical view? What is that?I keep forgetting. You don't know about that.


God is gender-fluid, btw.Really? "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." So once again, if you knew the Bible, it would have kept you from making a ridiculous statement. But rescue yourself. Show us that place in the Bible where it says God is "gender-fluid". In your words, "bwa-ha-ha". For that matter, show us where God says ANYONE is gender-fluid. It's just an anti-God position found nowhere in the Bible.

This is 40 seconds into the video. It is plainly stripping, a grown man wanting to show his axx to children as part of "reading hour". And you support it. Good grief.

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Perhaps you can tell us where the reading is in this strip act? Really, I feel very sorry for you. You have committed yourself to a political agenda, and it does not allow you to recognize at any time any error in that agenda. You are the most ideologically locked-in person I have ever come across.

1. The spirit of God is ruach, the original Old Testament Hebrew, feminine. The femininity of God is everywhere.

Not much to see there. And kids have undoubtedly seen their parents' behinds. Big deal.

If you knew anything about Hebrew, you would know that the gender of a noun is not a locked in indicator of gender identity. The Hebrew words for human body parts, for instance, are generally feminine as well, even when referring to men. And the Greek counterpart, "pneuma", is gender neutral, and ruach can also be translated as "wind". Surely you are not suggesting that the wind is female? But far worse for your case, the pronouns used to refer to "Spirit" are generally masculine. What do you do with that?

Now if you want to say that God transcends gender, then that could be discussed, but it would not change the fact that we are formed as male or female. There are no other choices in the Bible.


kids have undoubtedly seen their parents' behinds. Big deal.How much you want to bet they did not see their dad's behind while he was prancing around pretending to be a female stripper in front of a group of children in a public library? But you have to come up with some excuse to abide by your locked-in ideology.

So white men rule. Got it! (But Genesis 1-2 is an allegory. Ha!) And yes, there are other choices in the Bible.

And your kids were very bored growing up. Got it!

Like John Pavlovitz says in his book, "ultimately, understanding God as merely a cisgender, heterosexual man shrinks God into something comfortable, something easily managed—and something far too small to be God. If we really believe God made every human being who has ever walked the planet, and that each of these people bears the DNA of their Creator, we’re going to need to rethink the story we inherited. Maybe this whole gender identity and sexual orientation thing is a little more complex and expansive than we can glean from a 4,000-year-old poem (Genesis1–2), and maybe we should stop using it to destroy other people. Maybe, rather than shrinking God any longer, we need to release God from that confining space inside our heads. And as difficult as it is, maybe we should expand our very image of God in a way that argues with our learned theology, because if we do, it might make us far more willing to treat the diverse humanity that crosses our paths with the reverence and respect each one of them deserves—as made by and of God."

So white men rule. Got it!


And your kids were very bored growing up. Got it!This is what I hate about discussing anything with you. Instead of putting a little thought into the matter, you just come back with these brainless remarks that have nothing to do with the discussion and amount to little more than personal insults. The comments about white men and my kids, mentioned by no one here but you, is just from a different conversation I guess. But later you'll want to come back with an appeal against being a jerk.


(But Genesis 1-2 is an allegory. Ha!) Then why did you make reference to "ruach" as though it is a literal reference? You cannot have it both ways. But I'm glad that you now seem to consider Gen. 3 as being literal. Progress!!


And yes, there are other choices in the Bible.Yeah. I can tell by how you have listed them. Do you really think you are fooling anyone? It's why I always ask you these questions. I know before I hit "reply" that you don't have answers.

This is what I hate about discussing anything with you. Instead of putting a little thought into the matter, you just come back with these brainless remarks that have nothing to do with the discussion and amount to little more than personal insults.
Oh, but that's how you respond to me. I thought that is how you want to play this, just fun tossing insults back and forth.

Then why did you make reference to "ruach" as though it is a literal reference? You cannot have it both ways.

it isn't one way or even both ways. It's many ways. Can God be defined by or contained within a traditional gender definition? If all human beings are made in the image of God, then God transcends every current understanding we have of God. God has to be gender-fluid, definitely nonbinary. Once we understand and accept that, we can discover the character of that God in every human being we encounter -- and with no exceptions.

it isn't one way or even both ways. It's many ways.But the Bible does not say that. You do, but you cannot support your idea.

Still waiting for those "other choices" you claim to know about in the Bible.

God has to be gender-fluid. The scope and capacity of our love for others grows as a result. We don’t need to believe that “He” has the whole world in “His” hands. We just need to trust that we -- cis, LGBTQ+, Black, white, and so many more categories -- are lovingly held.

But the Bible does not say that. You do, but you cannot support your idea.
Why a many-gendered God? -- translation issues from the original languages, cultural gender bias in the compilers of the library of books that became the Bible, or perhaps Jesus’ desire to make God approachable and relatable. Jesus used a father, a patriarchal figure people valued so highly at the time -- and even today! Plus, how can a God who is spirit and not body be accurately identified with physical qualifiers: anatomy, physiology, and biology? God transcends gender and yet incorporates every gender.

Still waiting for those “other choices”. All the rest of your post is just your own slanted opinion. So again…where does the Bible support your ideas?

Still waiting for those “other choices”. All the rest of your post is just your own slanted opinion. So again…where does the Bible support your ideas?
Please reread Posts #91 and 92.

No scripture is found in either one. Just your opinion. Keep working at it.

I understand how terrifying it is when you realize our God is transgender. The discomfort and instability are worth facing. The idea is worth entertaining because, ultimately, understanding God as merely a cisgender, heterosexual man shrinks God into something too comfortable, something easily managed—and something far too small to be God.

More opinion. I will wait patiently for you to actually refer to the Bible. In the meantime, you will probably continue with the thoughtless, personal attacks.

Please work harder...MUCH harder.

More opinion. I will wait patiently for you to actually refer to the Bible. In the meantime, you will probably continue with the thoughtless, personal attacks.

Please work harder...MUCH harder.
I have referred to the Bible and the teachings in it. I refuse to play Bible-verse tag and Bible bingo and gotcha.

Actually…you haven’t.

Harder…much harder.

Actually…you haven’t.

Harder…much harder.
As waltero recently posted:

The wisdom of God, is fulfilling itself in many ways and in diverse manners. It is manifested, therefore, in the infinite variety both of the teaching and the life of the Church - yet one, as embodying but one life, the life of Jesus Christ...discovering itself gradually in such a beautiful and well-ordered variety of dispensations...some can only Dance to it, and some can sing to it.

IT APPEARS - To be well placed in your mind...It's not a code of Law that is to be explained. We don't, all, start from the same school of thought. In other words, It is only something that can be experienced, You can not define it. You can not reduce it to a form of a Creed.

Try getting out of your mind and start listening to your heart.

Still no Bible. Work harder. Copying someone else profits you nothing.

I told you! I refuse to play Bible "gotcha" with you. If you read the entire Bible, you'll understand what I posted. Waltero's post is excellent for this topic, especially the last line:

"Try getting out of your mind and start listening to your heart."

You sure get irritated when you can’t defend your positions.

I’ve read the entire Bible many times. What you posted is not scriptural.

"Try getting out of your mind and start listening to your heart." Modern pyscho-babble nonsense. I was astonished Walter would have posted it. He should know better.

We can just drop it.

I’ve read the entire Bible many times. What you posted is not scriptural.
Nope, not the Bible bingo you want. I'll add more tomorrow. Bedtime now.

When you make a claim about God, you are expected to be able to support it with specific passages from the Bible. You can't do that, so you are reduced to disparaging that important process by referring to it as "Bible bingo". You want us to instead believe it because, after all, Wondergirl said so. Sorry, but that won't work.

Until you can do that, I'll bow out as the "discussion" is actually rather ridiculous. And please don't say you have already done so because you plainly have not.

a transformer bicyclist not suprisingly won the Randall's Island crit woman's bicycle race . A number of contestants dropped out of the race in protest of he/she/it's participation. This is Tiffany Thomas' 20th win since beginning to compete in 2018 ......well into Tiffany's 40s . Thomas is 46 now and competing against real women half his age.

It really makes you wonder if there might begin to be some backlash from real women against this insanity. It's one thing if a man decides he want to resemble a woman. It's entirely different for him to compete athletically against those with XX chromosomes.

Even the famous white evangelical Richard Dawkins [SARC] has signed a declaration on this issue saying that the gender identity movement is in error.


Evolutionary biologist and outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins has signed a declaration that outlines numerous problems with the concept of “gender identity” on the grounds that it infringes on women’s rights and harms children experiencing gender dysphoria.

“Men who claim a female ’gender identity’ are being enabled to access opportunities and protections set aside for women,” says the Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based Rights. “This constitutes a form of discrimination against women, and endangers women’s fundamental rights to safety, dignity and equality.”

The declaration’s authors express dismay at how the idea of gender identity is being used against children, saying that the “use of puberty supressing drugs, cross-sex hormones, and surgery on children” are “harmful practices.”

https://churchleaders.com/news/411812-richard-dawkins-declaration-gender-transitions.html#:~:text=Evolutionary%20biologist% 20and%20outspoken%20atheist%20Richard%20Dawkins%20 has,women%E2%80%99s%20rights%20and%20harms%20child ren%20experiencing%20gender%20dysphoria.

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338378160_1066769524290646_8087563882110771523_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6nSo-sukA3gAX-FMxyT&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAFmV3hZrtOs4xG7jiTsDJdQfG-aJZCJMOAnPzxJzc6oQ&oe=6425F3B5

Question . Why don't you hear about women transforming into men to compete in men's sports ?

Question . Why don't you hear about women transforming into men to compete in men's sports ?
They do but it isnt newsy enough.

because they aren't 1st place They aren't breaking records

But they're having fun!

They aren't competing period. There are no females supposedly become males that are competitive in men's sports.

They aren't competing period. There are no females supposedly become males that are competitive in men's sports.
You know that how?

I know that from the absence of evidence to the contrary. Do you know of any? Can you name them? It's the same way I know that there was not a school shooting in my hometown. I didn't call all the schools. I would only need to check the news.

Then a MtoF team should be established, and FtoM team. That would solve your problem.

Hetero males are doing the shootings.

As long as it's privately financed, then go for it.

Hetero males are doing the shootings.

Since 2018 there have been 4 mass shooting incidents by transformers including the latest one in Nashville where the shooter wrote a manifesto that the authorities are too afraid to release to the public.

November 2018 in Aberdeen, Maryland; May 2019 in Colorado ; November 2022 in Colorado are the other 3 .

Wait for more after the upcoming Trans day of Vengence this Saturday .


i'll say it again. This transformer movement is undermining the woman's movement in this country . The trans movement is anti-woman, it is anti-feminist, it is complete misogyny.

Yes they should form a league of their own .

The trans movement is anti-woman, it is anti-feminist, it is complete misogyny.Not to mention anti-science and anit-common sense.


Yes they should form a league of their own .The good news is that they will not need a large stadium.

It was only a matter of time.


In an interview with gay news site The Daily Xtra, a 52 year-old Canadian father of seven explains how he now identifies as a 6 year-old girl.
“I can’t deny I was married. I can’t deny I have children,” Stefonknee Wolscht says. “But I’ve moved forward now and I’ve gone back to being a child. I don’t want to be an adult right now.”
https://www.mediaite.com/online/meet-the-52-year-old-father-who-identifies-a-6-year-old-girl/

There is also the 65 year old man out there who self-identifies as an infant and goes to daycares to get diapers.

https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/03/25/was-he-looking-for-a-job-from-biden-65-year-old-baby-busted-for-stealing-diapers-n1681539

in other words NAMBLA It's sick out there and getting sicker

HHS Secretary Dr. Rachel Levine says gender affirming care will be normalized.

Dr. Rachel Levine says gender-affirming care for minors has Biden administration's 'highest support' | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11871045/Dr-Rachel-Levine-says-gender-affirming-care-minors-Biden-administrations-highest-support.html)

This is going to go right up there will other ugly stains on our history ;slavery ;Jim Crow ; eugenics ,internment camps ,abortion ....now child mutilation.

Putin in his lengthy state of the Russian union address noted that the west is normalizing pedophilia ;and he is right .

Putin says West is advertising perversion, pedophilia (anews.com.tr) (https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2023/02/21/putin-says-west-is-advertising-perversion-pedophilia)

If a transformer targets a Christian school and kills 6 is it a hate crime ? Why are they covering up the manifesto ?

White evangelicals are now the most discriminated against group in America.

Kind of strange behavior for a "woman", don't you think?


Several current and former members of the University of Wyoming (https://www.foxnews.com/us/republican-delegate-sues-university-of-wyoming-for-campus-gun-ban)’s Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority are suing it for allowing a "peeping" biological male identifying as a woman to join.
According to the suit, the trans woman, 21-year-old Artemis Langford, has been "watching" the female members of the sorority house. It alleged that during one of these peeping incidents, Langford had a visible "erection."
The legal complaint noted that Langford is clearly "interested in women."
https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsuit-against-univ-wyoming-sorority-alleges-trans-woman-watched-female-members-visible-erection?dicbo=v2-aocBdy4

I can't imagine in any decent society where such behavior is acceptable

NCAA swimmer furious after being forced to share locker room with transgender Lia Thomas and exposed to 'male genitalia' | The US Sun (the-sun.com) (https://www.the-sun.com/sport/7358925/riley-gaines-lia-thomas-ncaa-locker-rooms-genitalia/)

Ours used to be a decent society. That is no longer the case in many parts of the country.

Women doctors will no longer be allowed to have male patients. Older sisters will no longer be allowed to change a younger brother's diapers or underwear. A brother and sister of any age will not be allowed to bathe together. No male will be allowed to show off the "family jewels" to a female date or to a social group that includes females. No photos or artistic renderings of male genitalia will be allowed to appear in any publications, movies, on tv, or on social media.

No decent woman wants to be in a room with a naked man who is not her husband, or at least a boyfriend. To suggest that men should be free to expose themselves to any woman they choose is outrageous.

No decent woman wants to be in a room with a naked man who is not her husband, or at least a boyfriend. To suggest that men should be free to expose themselves to any woman they choose is outrageous.
Hospitals? Nurses and aides and women doctors see naked men all the time. I worked as a PT aide for a year and saw naked male bodies. They can use the same bathroom or locker room I do as long as they remember what they're there for.

health care is not the same as an athletic locker room . That comparison is a dodge of the issue.

As I said above, "They can use the same bathroom or locker room I do as long as they remember what they're there for."

Have you ever been in a locker room? If so, what do guys do there?

btw patients often refuse treatment That is generally recognized except in life saving emergencies where the patient does not have the mental capacity at the time to do so.

btw patients often refuse treatment
OFEN REFUSE TREATMENT??? Because the doctor or nurse or aide is female?

That is gnerally recognized except in life saving emergencies where the patient does not have the mental capacity at the time to do so.
You're making a joke, right? Bwahahahaha!!!

no I am serious It is unethical to force or coerce someone into treatment against their will if they are of sound mind and are mentally capable of making an informed decision. I have refused treatment if the treatment /doctor was not approved by my medical plan . It happens all the time

This isn't about those cases. This is about women not being anywhere near a guy who's naked from the waist down.

What are you saying ? Can a Muslim man refuse treatment from a female health practitioner of course !!!

What are you saying ? Can a Muslim man refuse treatment from a female health practitioner of course !!!
That is not what we're talking about! (Btw, your Muslim man is going to have a few problems if he ever ends up in a healthcare facility or nursing home.)

This is the topic:

jlisenbe: No decent woman wants to be in a room with a naked man who is not her husband, or at least a boyfriend. To suggest that men should be free to expose themselves to any woman they choose is outrageous.

Hospitals? Nurses and aides and women doctors see naked men all the time. I worked as a PT aide for a year and saw naked male bodies. They can use the same bathroom or locker room I do as long as they remember what they're there for.That's an absurd comparison between what goes on in hospitals with sick people versus what goes on in general life. But since you want to pursue that absurdity, then you should acknowledge that it only goes on between consenting adults, them being the patient and health care provider. So your argument actually reinforces the idea that no woman should be forced to look at a naked man, nor should she be the one to have to change her activities to avoid that occurrence.

Well done!! To quote you, "Bwahahahaha!!!"

It's just mind-boggling to think that we are actually having a conversation in which it is being seriously argued that women should be forced to be in the same room as a naked man. It's nothing short of craziness on display.

To suggest that men should be free to expose themselves to any woman they choose is outrageous.

He is right . Do the women athletes have a choice besides refusing to partake in the sick charade the woke lunatics have forces on them ? Let this fraud who has not been subjected to chemical and surgical castration swim with the men and see how many 1st place trophies he receives .

This is the lunacy that WG is defending. "Several current and former members of the University of Wyoming (https://www.foxnews.com/us/republican-delegate-sues-university-of-wyoming-for-campus-gun-ban)’s Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority are suing it for allowing a "peeping" biological male identifying as a woman to join."

So the feminist movement has come full circle, it would appear. There used to be a concern for the rights of women. Now she is arguing that the rights of women should be trampled in favor of the supposed rights of the trans folks. Incredible.


Do the women athletes have a choice besides refusing to partake in the sick charade the woke lunatics have forces on them ?I thought all of these people were "pro-choice". I guess that only applies when it concerns the right to kill unborn children.

Was this trans woman medically approved and accepted as truly trans, or was it on her word only that she's trans?

Sounds like that sorority needs a brain.

was it on her word only that she's trans?Please explain that. Do you mean that a person must PROVE he/she is trans, and we don't simply take their word for it? What proof would you require?

Please explain that. Do you mean that a person must PROVE he/she is trans, and we don't simply take their word for it? What proof would you require?
If I (in this case, a university, a sorority) am asked to extend privileges of some sort to this person, I would request medical documentation.

I know a guy who says he is really a female but doesn't have the money or even the courage to go through with all the gender therapy sessions, the counseling sessions, the medical exams and assessments, treating gender dysphoria, the HRT and other hormonal therapy, the voice coaching, electrolysis, the top surgery and bottom surgery, name change on legal documents and state ID, laryngoplasty, and more.

I know a guy who says he is really a female but doesn't have the money or even the courage to go through with all the gender therapy sessions, the counseling sessions, the medical exams and assessments, treating gender dysphoria, the HRT and other hormonal therapy, the voice coaching, electrolysis, the top surgery and bottom surgery, name change on legal documents and state ID, laryngoplasty, and more.So you would require all of this for a person to be allowed into a sorority?

So you would require all of this for a person to be allowed into a sorority?
He'd certainly have to prove he's making progress.

How would he do that?

How would he do that?
By showing paperwork from his doctor(s) as to what's been done and what's left to do.

I wouldn't let him join a sorority unless he had fully transitioned to female.

So it sounds like you would support the lawsuit filed by the members of the sorority. Correct? After all, he was still fully plumbed as a male and was clearly still attracted to females. Or at the very least, you would not have allowed him to join the sorority.

Correct.

Doesn't sound like he's very far along in the process of transitioning.

Add Budweiser to the list of woke companies . Bud Lite brand has a new spokes-"person" . The person is a TikTok star .....strike one ; and transformer ....strike two and a fraud ...strike three.
Dylan Mulvaney is a biological male who thinks he is a woman . His so called transition into "girlhood" began last year . He/she/it became a TikTok star by documented his so called transition .Mostly he wears dresses ;puts on makeup; prances around on camera and makes fun of women. His act is a misogynistic parody that the woke crowd can't get enough of .

This has been a cash cow for him. He has parleyed his fraud into deals with Ulta Beauty, Haus Labs, Crest, Instacart, EOS, CeraVe, Native, Kate Spade, Ole Henriksen and KitchenAid and others including now with Budweiser .

And the kicker is that Bud's target demographic is young adult males who see right through this demeaning parody of women for what it really is .
It is a perfect match .....a man who pretends to be a woman teamed up with urine that pretends to be beer .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fsq1TrhakAIIKoU?format=jpg&name=900x900

Our slide into decadence continues on. The effect on the military is alarming.


Last year, the Army missed its recruiting goal by 25 percent. They expect this year to be even worse. The Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps began the new fiscal year in October 50 percent below their normal recruiting numbers. Public confidence in the military is falling precipitously, and even military families – from which most recruits come – are less likely to recommend military life.

What explains the decline? According to a November poll, the most common explanations included "military leadership becoming overly politicized" and "so-called ‘woke’ practices undermining military effectiveness." Another survey found that 65 percent of active-duty servicemen and women are concerned about politicization, including the woke training programs and equity-minded reduced physical fitness standards.

Troop retention rates are falling, too, and for the same reasons. As the report notes, "the perception that non-warfighting missions are distracting senior military leadership may alienate experienced, skilled and knowledgeable warfighters, incentivizing their early departure[.]"

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/military-dangerous-decline-reason-why

Only a genuine move of God will save us.

March 27 a transformer guns down 6 at a Christian school . March 31 Clueless Joe honors 'Transgender day of visibility 'a with a 3,464-word “fact sheet” suggesting “conservative politicians” were driving “transgender youth” to consider suicide.
FACT SHEET: White House Honors Transgender Day of Visibility | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/03/31/fact-sheet-white-house-honors-transgender-day-of-visibility/)

3 days after the killings KJP said it was the transformers who were under attack.

The day after the murders NBC's headline was not about the victims . It was about how transformers fear the backlash.
Fear pervades trans community amid focus on Nashville shooter's gender identity (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/fear-pervades-tennessees-trans-community-focus-nashville-shooters-gend-rcna77066)

Amazon's Candi Castleberry, sent a message to “LGBTQIA++XYZ employees and allies expressing “support and solidarity during this period of apprehension and uncertainty.”

No expression of sympathy for the victims .

Add Budweiser to the list of woke companies . Bud Lite brand has a new spokes-"person" . The person is a TikTok star .....strike one ; and transformer ....strike two and a fraud ...strike three.
Dylan Mulvaney is a biological male who thinks he is a woman . His so called transition into "girlhood" began last year . He/she/it became a TikTok star by documented his so called transition .
I can't find any information that Dylan has done any more than having facial surgery. There's no mention of any other transgender work that usually takes at least three years, often longer. Dylan claims he/she told his/her very conservative parents he/she is a girl, not a boy, when he/she was 4. That may be true, but Dylan needs to get rear in gear and do ALL the work of transitioning.

but Dylan needs to get rear in gear and do ALL the work of transitioning.Why is that?

Why is that?
If he/she is truly trans, then follow through with all that I posted in #145. Otherwise, Dylan is mocking all the true transgenders who have done or are doing the long, hard, expensive work of transitioning.

I think his is a la cage aux folles act that works because he has his brain dead TikTok audience believing his cr@p .He gets hits and that means the corporate idiots at Bud see $$$$

And, tomder, that's why the facial surgery, maybe a bit of electrolysis too, and wow! now I'm female! -- and have a fan club on top of it!

If he/she is truly trans, then follow through with all that I posted in #145. Otherwise, Dylan is mocking all the true transgenders who have done or are doing the long, hard, expensive work of transitioning.It would be OK if this was just your personal opinion, but you seem to be suggesting that it should become a sort of widespread standard. I'm not sure what gives you that authority.

Sure seems you are being awfully judgmental.

It would be OK if this was just your personal opinion, but you seem to be suggesting that it should become a sort of widespread standard. I'm not sure what gives you that authority.
It IS the standard! How do YOU think it happens?

I figured you'd be cheering because WG is finally following the rules!

It IS the standard! Says who?

Says who?
What is YOUR plan?

So it turns out that it's just your standard. That's what I figured. I'd still like to know where you feel you get this authority from,

So it turns out that it's just your standard. That's what I figured. I'd still like to know where you feel you get this authority from,
It is THE standard!!!!! Do some research. Talk to a fully transitioned person.

Why is it that you can never provide your own documentation? It always comes down to, "I have no idea, so maybe you can find it." No thanks. You need to do your own work.

Why is it that you can never provide your own documentation? It always comes down to, "I have no idea, so maybe you can find it." No thanks. You need to do your own work.
I have documentation from women who have transitioned! I posted that earlier, all the agonies they go through. Why are you being so difficult? Do you want websites? Lots of those. Here's from one site: "The testicles are removed, a procedure called orchiectomy. The skin from the scrotum is used to make the labia. The erectile tissue of the penis is used to make the neoclitoris. The urethra is preserved and functional" according to WPATH Standards of Care. (http://www.wpath.org/)

https://www.uofmhealth.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-services/gender-confirmation-surgery#:~:text=Male%2Dto%2Dfemale%20sex%20reassig nment%20surgery&text=The%20testicles%20are%20removed%2C%20a,urethr a%20is%20preserved%20and%20functional (https://www.uofmhealth.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-services/gender-confirmation-surgery#:~:text=Male%2Dto%2Dfemale%20sex%20reassig nment%20surgery&text=The%20testicles%20are%20removed%2C%20a,urethr a%20is%20preserved%20and%20functional).

https://www.wikihow.com/Transition-from-Male-to-Female-(Transgender)#:~:text=Things%20You%20Should%20Know %201%20Change%20your%20name%2C,most%20gender-affirming%20care%20if%20your%20doctor%20prescribes %20it.

You are describing what is done. That's fine, and I imagine we all knew about that already, but you have located NOTHING in regard to any established standard which you claim to know about and clearly cannot find.

This is what you claimed, and it's what you are being asked to document. "It is THE standard!!!!! Do some research." Now it appears that you cannot do what you asked me to do. Perhaps it was not clear what the subject was?

I went ahead and did your work for you. These two do not agree with your idea. Perhaps that's why you did not actually look for them?


The terms "transgender" and "gender diverse" cover a range of gender identities and gender expressions. These terms move past the idea that all people can be classified as only one of two genders — female or male. That idea is called the gender binary.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812


Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity or expression (masculine, feminine, other) is different from their sex (male, female) at birth.

https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/transgender.htm

I use the umbrella term transformer. I looked it up and there actually are transgender and non-binary transformers in the world of make believe .

I went ahead and did your work for you. These two do not agree with your idea. Perhaps that's why you did not actually look for them?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812

https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/transgender.htm
And that is exactly what I've been talking about.


Perhaps it was not clear what the subject was?
Exactly! You and I are not talking about the same thing apparently.

And that is exactly what I've been talking about.Well, if you ignore most of what you said, then you'd be right. However, since this is what you posted, then you are miles off. "I have documentation from women who have transitioned! I posted that earlier, all the agonies they go through. Why are you being so difficult? Do you want websites? Lots of those. Here's from one site: "The testicles are removed, a procedure called orchiectomy. The skin from the scrotum is used to make the labia. The erectile tissue of the penis is used to make the neoclitoris. The urethra is preserved and functional" according to WPATH Standards of Care. (http://www.wpath.org/)"

Tom pretty much hit the nail on the head. It is a sad deal for the people involved in it, but going along with their deception is not the right approach.

That's exactly what is done. My New England friend recently had an orchiectomy.

You are describing a possible treatment, but that is not the definition of transgenderism. You have it confused. A person can claim to be transgender and not undergo any of the treatments you claim are mandatory. So Lia Thomas, the man pretending to be a woman, claims to be trans, but he has never had, as you described it, the "bottom surgery". You claim he is therefore not trans, but that's just your opinion. There is no standard that includes that.

You are describing a possible treatment, but that is not the definition of transgenderism.
I have no clue what you mean. I wasn't defining transgenderism. Transgenderism is a diagnosis.

A person can claim to be transgender and not undergo any of the treatments you claim are mandatory.
I didn't claim treatments are mandatory. Those are the steps that MtoFs have to go through if they want to become completely female. There are thousands of transgenders in this country who can't access any treatment because their religion or parents or superiors won't permit it, because they can't afford it, because they're too depressed.

So Lia Thomas, the man pretending to be a woman, claims to be trans, but he has never had, as you described it, the "bottom surgery".
He could very well be trans but has had only certain changes. (???) You've checked his crotch?

You claim he is therefore not trans, but that's just your opinion. There is no standard that includes that.
I did not. I AM surprised he hasn't gone any further with his transition, so, instead, he becomes one of those female-looking sorority sisters with an erection.

Interesting article:

https://thenetline.com/lia-thomas-transition/

You have no clue? I don't believe that since you said this earlier. "If he/she is truly trans, then follow through with all that I posted in #145. Otherwise, Dylan is mocking all the true transgenders who have done or are doing the long, hard, expensive work of transitioning." You knew exactly what we were talking about.


I didn't claim treatments are mandatory. You said they were mandatory for a person to be considered trans.


I did not.Yes you did.

WG: I didn't claim treatments are mandatory.

JL: You said they were mandatory for a person to be considered trans.

For a person to have completed transition. Is that better?

Yes, it's better.

How's your husband doing? Better, I hope.

Our slide into decadence continues on. The effect on the military is alarming.


Last year, the Army missed its recruiting goal by 25 percent. They expect this year to be even worse. The Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps began the new fiscal year in October 50 percent below their normal recruiting numbers. Public confidence in the military is falling precipitously, and even military families – from which most recruits come – are less likely to recommend military life.

What explains the decline? According to a November poll, the most common explanations included "military leadership becoming overly politicized" and "so-called ‘woke’ practices undermining military effectiveness." Another survey found that 65 percent of active-duty servicemen and women are concerned about politicization, including the woke training programs and equity-minded reduced physical fitness standards.

Troop retention rates are falling, too, and for the same reasons. As the report notes, "the perception that non-warfighting missions are distracting senior military leadership may alienate experienced, skilled and knowledgeable warfighters, incentivizing their early departure[.]"


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/mili...ine-reason-why (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/military-dangerous-decline-reason-why)

Only a genuine move of God will save us.

Chinese Military To Just Shout Wrong Pronouns At American Soldiers - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saaf9Qs_U0)

Quiet day.

Nike Uses Dylan Mulvaney to Promote Sports Bras And Women's Leggings – OutKick (https://www.outkick.com/nike-uses-dylan-mulvaney-to-promote-sports-bras-and-womens-leggings/)



Budweiser Replaces Clydesdales With Cows Dressed As Horses | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/budweiser-replaces-clydesdales-with-cows-dressed-as-horses?utm_source=The%20Babylon%20Bee%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email)

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/male-canadian-powerlifter-breaks-womens-bench-press-record-in-protest-against-trans-inclusion-policy/


A male Canadian powerlifting coach broke the Alberta women’s bench-press record over the weekend in an act of protest against the presiding organization’s extremely lenient trans-inclusion policy.

Avi Silverberg, who does not identify as transgender, participated in the 84+ kg category at the Canadian Powerlifting Union’s (CPU) “Heroes Classic.” Silverberg bested transgender-identifying male competitor Anne Andres, who watched him from the audience.

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341704165_603455138470325_5953565679293227016_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=81IOU9W3zAgAX9n9LXv&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDeXqYIjgmk8pj-89uSatFgjFkqliE01cqvRj1IFiVvIA&oe=6441429A

This week the Dems in the House of Reps voted unanimously to allow men to compete in girl sports .

Not one Dem stood up for woman's rights to compete on a level playing field.

House GOP votes to ban transgender athletes from women's sports (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2023/04/20/house-gop-votes-to-ban-transgender-athletes-from-womens-sports/)

I wonder where the fems go now?

Be careful, ladies!

49467

The roots of the transformer movement was in the mid-60s (what a surprise. ) It is a sordid tale .Before then there was no words like “gender identity” and “sexual orientation.” They were pretty much invented by a quack pseudo -scientist named Dr John Money . He was a sexologist at John Hopkins .

1965 a family came to him for help. They had birthed twin boys. One of the twins had received a botched circumcision. Money's recommendation was to castrate him and do a sex conversion ,Money had the perfect patients to test his sick theories on . He had his changeling and his twin brother in the control group. Bruce's name was changed to Brenda. He received hormone therapy to complete the transfer and was forced to wear girls clothing .

His brother Brian was also part of Money's sicko experiments. Money directed them as children to assume sex positions . He reasoned that sexual rehearsal play was important in child development . Money would bring in colleagues to observe this sexual play .When the boys refused they were subject to verbal abuse . Money would photograph them in the act . "Brenda "was shown pictures naked adults to stimulate his transition.

He began to demonstrate female behavior . Money considered his experiment a success. He used it to suggest that gender identitiy is learned and not inate .

But he was never really comfortable as a female . When he turned 15 his father told him the truth. He decided to reclaim manhood. He got a double mastectomy and began taking male hormones. He renamed himself David.

But he was deeply traumatized by his experience . At the age of 38 he committed suicide . His brother Brian also deeply troubled had killed himself 2 years earlier .

As for Dr Money .....to this day he is championed by the transformer community .

Dr. John Money, pioneer in sexual identity, dies (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dr-john-money-pioneer-sexual-identity-dies-flna1c9439208)

He is championed rather than being in jail. What a reflection on our crazy country.

Why the Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl Forgave His Mother | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQJHPQpf6mI&t=11s)

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342176668_1297428610869021_4911958971369173964_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=D_6V2LDpF9YAX9Hs2qj&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDq60GENuM4vAKghvOtzzrJxlFIoCTE9GgTyBSdQJLd 2w&oe=644919B1

The lunacy continues.


A Vermont elementary school (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/northeast/vermont)is reportedly removing "male" and "female" language from its fifth grade science lessons covering the human body, puberty and reproduction.
In a letter sent home to parents at Founders Memorial School on April 20, the principal announced "gender-inclusive language (https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-school-districts-women-gender-studies-course-taught-students-use-gender-neutral-language)" would now be used in the science and health unit.
Teachers would now only use "gender-inclusive language" in these lessons in order to "align our curriculum (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/education/curriculum) with our equity policy," school principal Sara Jablonski wrote in a letter shared on social media.



Terms like "male" and "boy" would be replaced with "person who produces sperm." Likewise, "female" and "girl" would be replaced with a "person who produces eggs."
https://www.foxnews.com/media/vermont-school-district-removes-male-female-puberty-reproductive-system-lessons

science deniers

Terms like "male" and "boy" would be replaced with "person who produces sperm." Likewise, "female" and "girl" would be replaced with a "person who produces eggs.

This is wild

science deniers
Yes, you are.

This is part of what strikes me as bizarre about this. They have decided that rather than use the term "male", they will use the descriptor, "a person who produces sperm". But isn't that what a male is? So if a boy decides he is a girl, he is still called, "a person who produces sperm", hence a male.

It's like deciding to no longer use the term "car", but rather use, "a motorized, 4 wheeled vehicle capable of being legally driven on a highway".

This is part of what strikes me as bizarre about this. They have decided that rather than use the term "male", they will use the descriptor, "a person who produces sperm". But isn't that what a male is?
Nope. In that individual's heart, soul, brain, that person is female. The male appendages are Mother Nature's mistake during fetal development.

or that person is confused and needs a check up from the neck up

or that person is confused and needs a check up from the neck up
Why? Anatomy below the waist rules?

Nope. In that individual's heart, soul, brain, that person is female. The male appendages are Mother Nature's mistake during fetal development.So the district is wrong in referring to "people who produce sperm"? I ask because in referring to those who produce sperm, they include boys who think they are girls in the same category as boys who think they are boys. They all are sperm producers, so what category is there for the boys who think they are girls? They are certainly not those who produce eggs, are they?

How about boys who think they are dogs or cats? They do exist, you know. Should we go along with that as well? How about boys who think they are a god, or boys who think they are angels? If it's all about the person's "heart, soul, brain," then does that settle it in those cases? Do we reach a point where impressions become delusions?

Yes, I disagree with the district. Too confusing.

How about boys who think they are dogs or cats? They do exist, you know. Should we go along with that as well? How about boys who think they are a god, or boys who think they are angels? If it's all about the person's "heart, soul, brain," then does that settle it in those cases? Do we reach a point where impressions become delusions?

Talking about delusions, it's amazing how our abandonment of God has led us to the point of not even being able to figure out what we should call boys and girls.

Too confusing . The understatement of the year

And you knew where you were then girls were girls and men were men.


All In The Family Intro - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K50UstKfJM)

Too confusing . The understatement of the yearIndeed. You have to wonder about the district's reasoning. What problem were they trying to solve?

our abandonment of God has led us to the point of not even being able to figure out what we should call boys and girls.
Read in Genesis about God giving humans free will. We can e.g., inject estrogen and progesterone into a pregnant woman's womb, changing the hormone balance for the developing fetus. Or maybe it's a natural flow of hormones.

Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.

Philippians 3:2 ESV - Look out for the dogs, look out for the - Bible Gateway (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3%3A2&version=ESV)




Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

Corinthians 3:16-17

Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.

Philippians 3:2 ESV - Look out for the dogs, look out for the - Bible Gateway (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3%3A2&version=ESV)
Were you circumcised? Had any surgery -- tonsils out, appendix out, heart surgery? Do you take Viagra? (against God's will, btw)

Read in Genesis about God giving humans free will. We can e.g., inject estrogen and progesterone into a pregnant woman's womb, changing the hormone balance for the developing fetus. Or maybe it's a natural flow of hormones.

We've discussed this before. There is no medical evidence for a hormonal connection to the transgender situation.

We've discussed this before. There is no medical evidence for a hormonal connection to the transgender situation.
Of course there is! You don't trust my evidence. Google honestly.

Your strategy number 3. When you have no idea, you suggest someone else search the web. Doesn’t work. It’s wayyyy too obvious.

You flunked.

Strategy four.

Lots of science sites -- WebMD, MayoClinic, PsychologyToday, to name a few.

Strategy three...again.

Do your own work.

A man posing as a woman and claiming to be a transformer ran in the elite London marathon. He/She/It ran as Glenique Frank. Frank finished ahead of 14,000 other real women. The London marathon is highly competitive and follows World Athletic Rules which prohibits runners from competing that have gone through male puberty.

Last month he ran in the Tokyo marathon as Glen Frank.

Women sports is dead .

Clueless Joe is going to put the final nail in it . He is proposing Title 9 protections for transformers.

Biden's Title IX proposal would make broad, transgender sports bans illegal : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1168460726/biden-title-ix-transgender-sports-ban)

A man posing as a woman and claiming to be a transformer ran in the elite London marathon. He/She/It ran as Glenique Frank. Frank finished ahead of 14,000 other real women. The London marathon is highly competitive and follows World Athletic Rules which prohibits runners from competing that have gone through male puberty.So much of this leaves an opening as big as an ocean liner for conservatives, and yet who seems to be the standard bearer but Trump, a guy so repulsive to liberal dems that he provides them an incentive to vote for JB.

Dems in the Minnesota Legislature had a new bill (HF1655) that would remove language from the state's Human Rights Act that says pedophiles are not protected based on "sexual orientation." (4.1 - 4.7)

The Human Rights Act reads ;"'Sexual orientation' does not include a physical or sexual attachment to children by an adult." (subd 44 )

Sec. 363A.03 MN Statutes (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/363A.03)

That language would've been removed.


The proposed change also read....

"'Gender identity' means a person's inherent sense of being a man, woman, both, or neither. A person's gender identity may or may not correspond to their assigned sex at birth or to their primary or secondary sex characteristics. A person's gender identity is not necessarily visible to others." (4.10 -4.13)

The bill was not stand alone. It was surreptitiously added into a Judiciary Policy omnibus bill that passed Wednesday.

The Repubs added a last-minute amendment to the bill before it was approved by unanimous consent. No Dem apparently wanted to be on record supporting pedophilia. But had the Repubs not been vigilant the language would've become Minnesota law. A major bullet was dodged. But it does show what extent the Dems are prepared to go to codify deviancy.

The gender language is still in the bill and it is now up to the state Senate to reject it .

What about left-handed people? Deviant!!!

I don't think I would put left-handedness in the same category as pedophilia. Wouldn't you think the child victims would see the comparison as pretty bizarre?

Perhaps you meant something else?

Perhaps you meant something else?
Yes. Compared to gender identity.

A better comparison to gender identity would be a person claiming to be of a different race or a different species. In all three cases, it would be a violation of clear, genetically-determined biological markers. That is not the case with being left-handed. A person would not say, "I am genetically right-handed, but I claim to actually be left-handed."

Or, "I am genetically left-handed but am forced to be right-handed." (Check back to elementary schools during the '50s and earlier, when ropes or belts were tied around students' torsos to immobilize the left arm and hand. Plus, verbal shaming was employed to change handedness.)

I was a lefty in a Catholic school that had right hand oriented desks . No one cut my left hand off to make me a righty .

You apparently didn't attend a public school in the South.

And by the time you were in school, thinking had loosened up.


I was a lefty in a Catholic school that had right hand oriented desks . No one cut my left hand off to make me a righty .
So how did they deal with your lefthandedness?

If this was done by a 3rd world tribe it would be called barbaric and universally condemned .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuyk8vgWwAEoEcs?format=jpg&name=900x900

Actually no. Indigenous people highly respect two-spirit people.

Indigenous people highly respect two-spirit people.Sounds like one of those stories that gets passed around but is unlikely to be true.

Sounds like one of those stories that gets passed around but is unlikely to be true.
O ye of little faith! Easy to research.

Female genital mutilation (who.int) (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/female-genital-mutilation)

That has nothing to do with transitioning. It's considered a "rite of passage" in many countries (so females don't enjoy sex).

"It reflects deep-rooted inequality between the sexes and constitutes an extreme form of discrimination against girls and women. It is nearly always carried out by traditional practitioners on minors and is a violation of the rights of children. The practice also violates a person's rights to health, security and physical integrity; the right to be free from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment; and the right to life, in instances when the procedure results in death."

mutilation is mutilation .

mutilation is mutilation .
Definitely, especially forced mutilation. People do "mutilate" their bodies with piercings and tattoos. And transitioning surgery is fixing what's broken, like a tonsillectomy.

The WHO says


FGM has no health benefits, and it harms girls and women in many ways. It involves removing and damaging healthy and normal female genital tissue, and it interferes with the natural functions of girls' and women's bodies. Although all forms of FGM are associated with increased risk of health complications, the risk is greater with more severe forms of FGM.Immediate complications of FGM can include:


severe pain
excessive bleeding (haemorrhage)
genital tissue swelling
fever
infections e.g., tetanus
urinary problems
wound healing problems
injury to surrounding genital tissue
shock
death.

Long-term complications can include:


urinary problems (painful urination, urinary tract infections);
vaginal problems (discharge, itching, bacterial vaginosis and other infections);
menstrual problems (painful menstruations, difficulty in passing menstrual blood, etc.);
scar tissue and keloid;
sexual problems (pain during intercourse, decreased satisfaction, etc.);
increased risk of childbirth complications (difficult delivery, excessive bleeding, caesarean section, need to resuscitate the baby, etc.) and newborn deaths;
need for later surgeries: for example, the sealing or narrowing of the vaginal opening (type 3) may lead to the practice of cutting open the sealed vagina later to allow for sexual intercourse and childbirth (deinfibulation). Sometimes genital tissue is stitched again several times, including after childbirth, hence the woman goes through repeated opening and closing procedures, further increasing both immediate and long-term risks; and
psychological problems (depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, low self-esteem, etc.).



Female genital mutilation (who.int) (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/female-genital-mutilation)

So called transitioning is done in many cases to minors . That in itself should be a crime .

So called transitioning is done in many cases to minors . That in itself should be a crime .
No surgery is done to minors. Gender therapy, family and individual counseling, maybe hormone blocking or therapy depending on the kid's age. Surgery wouldn't happen until the kid is 18 or older.

FGM is a whole different ballgame from transition surgery.

do you see the photo I posted ?

hormone blocking is chemical castration it is a mutilation as much as a surgical procedure is if there is no medical reason for it . .....and transition is NOT a medical reason . It is a fad .

do you see the photo I posted ?

hormone blocking is chemical castration it is a mutilation as much as a surgical procedure is if there is no medical reason for it . .....and transition is NOT a medical reason . It is a fad .
Have you ever talked with any people who have transitioned? Nope, it's not a fad. Those women who spend three to five years transitioning aren't doing it for fun. The mind- and soul-numbing dysphoria they experience is nothing anyone wants and can be alleviated.

Maybe in your day . But today it is peer pressure fad . Who says so ? A tranny psychologist .


To flatly say there couldn’t be any social influence in formation of gender identity flies in the face of reality. Teenagers influence each other," Anderson tells the LA Times. What happens when the perfect storm — of social isolation, exponentially increased consumption of social media, the popularity of alternative identities — affects the actual development of individual kids? We’re sailing in uncharted seas.

A transgender psychologist has helped hundreds of teens transition. But rising numbers have her concerned - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com) (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-12/a-transgender-psychologist-reckons-with-how-to-support-a-new-generation-of-trans-teens)

“It’s the children who are now leading us,” said the director of mental health for the Child and Adolescent Gender Center at UCSF.

When kids come in saying they are transgender (or no gender), these doctors try to help - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/when-kids-come-in-saying-they-are-transgender-or-no-gender-these-doctors-try-to-help/2018/01/19/f635e5fa-dac0-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html)

"Giving over to hormones on demand will result in many more cases of poor outcomes and many more disappointed kids and parents who somehow came to believe that giving kids hormones would cure their other psychological problems,” Anderson reportedly says. “It won’t."

No surgery is done to minors.What an incredible statement. That this surgery IS done to minors is easy to verify. The documentation can be found in mere minutes.

So how did they deal with your lefthandedness My parents told them I was lefty . They took an interest in my education and had no problem confronting educators on my behalf . More parents should take direct control of their child's education . A lot of bull cr@p is taught to kids without parents being aware .

My penmanship suffered . No problem . Most doctors can't write either .

Like I said ... no one cut off my left hand .

Megyn Kelly wearing a 'Make Women Female Again ' hat

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fu6pcaCX0AE0W51?format=jpg&name=small

Megyn Kelly wearing a 'Make Women Female Again ' hat

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fu6pcaCX0AE0W51?format=jpg&name=small
With a lotta womanly attributes hangin' out in our faces. (I've seen transwomen who look even better, more womanly, if breasts are the standard of womanliness.)

Her point is that the likes of Dylan Mulvaney make a mockery of womanhood. Maybe you can see that after your gawking at her breasts is finished,

Kelly was accused of "misgendering" that freak show. She was called "transphobic" . The truth is that Kelly is a woman and Mulvaney is not even if he/she/it claims to be.

We women laud transgender women like Dylan. I have three wonderful trans girlfriends who daily add joy to my life.

We women laud transgender women like Dylan"Laud" is far too strong a term. While many women support the right of a person to identify as something other than their birth gender, far fewer support the right of a man to use a woman's bathroom or to participate in women's athletics simply because the man claims to be female. As can be seen below, the trend is towards a common-sense view of gender.


Americans' Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/)


49469

49471

It's not a "claim". Have you read about all the dysthymia, the gender therapy, the counseling, the surgeries? Not fun.

You do realize, of course, there are members of your extended family who are in the LGBTQ+ community.

I had a member of my extended family who was a notorious burglar and thief. We did not go around defending the idea of robbery. People have many problems, and that includes me, but we don't legitimize those problems.

It is a claim based upon a mental illness.

I can't help but note that, as usual, the data presented that contradicted your statement about women "lauding" TG individuals just was ignored.

It is NOT a mental illness. If you studied the science and learn what all can happen during pregnancy, you'd understand.

I double dare you to get to know three trans women, listen to their experiences, ask honest questions. Learn!!!

It is NOT a mental illness.Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness???


If you studied the science and learn what all can happen during pregnancy, you'd understand.Your memory must be suffering lapses. You have tried to go that route several times and have failed on every occasion. Good grief. You do know that the earth is not flat and the moon is not made of cheese?

I double dare you to get to know three trans women, listen to their experiences, ask honest questions. Learn!!!As you well know, that would amount to nothing more than anecdotal accounts which are useless in establishing truth. But I can give a corollary. I have met hundreds of drug addicts/alcoholics in the past 10+ years. They have heart-breaking stories and many are really good men, but I will never go out and suggest we should consider that problem to be normal and acceptable.

Learn!!

There are recovered drug and alcohol addicts among my in-laws, as well as LGBTQ+. I'm an "ace". If I weren't, I never would have been able to stay married to an "aspie" for over 55 years.

I know several recovered LGBTwhatever folks.