Bringing up Origen got me to thinking about his view of hell. Origen was a universalist who also believed in a literal hell. J. B. Phillips, author of the Phillips translation of the New Testament, agreed with him. It goes like this:

There are people who reject God and go to hell. While there, they have the opportunity to change their minds and embrace Him. If they do, they are rescued and go to heaven. Phillips summed it up this way:
everyone will get to heaven, even if some have to go through hell to get there.

Thoughts?

Bringing up Origen got me to thinking about his view of hell. Origen was a universalist who also believed in a literal hell. J. B. Phillips, author of the Phillips translation of the New Testament, agreed with him. It goes like this:

There are people who reject God and go to hell. While there, they have the opportunity to change their minds and embrace Him. If they do, they are rescued and go to heaven. Phillips summed it up this way:
everyone will get to heaven, even if some have to go through hell to get there.

Thoughts?

What happens to those who don't change their minds? According to Phillips, they still get to go to heaven ("everyone will get to heaven").

That is not the hell that is understood in Christianity. It is more like the Catholic Purgatory. Or the Hindu idea of "karma" from which purgatory is derived, although Catholics will deny that.

What about unbelievers who go through hell while on Earth?

What about unbelievers who go through hell while on Earth?

Please clarify what you mean.

Please clarify what you mean.
Is that experience of surviving hell on earth (too many examples to list) good enough to merit heaven?

Is that experience of surviving hell on earth (too many examples to list) good enough to merit heaven?

Ok, thanks. I don't think DW means that. He's writing about the afterlife hell.

Ok, thanks. I don't think DW means that. He's writing about the afterlife hell.
Hell is hell. What's the difference between the two?

Hell is hell. What's the difference between the two?

The afterlife one has more interesting people.

The afterlife one has more interesting people.
People who enjoy toasting marshmallows?

People who enjoy toasting marshmallows?

Yeah, yeah, that's it!

Okay, now you guys are just being silly :D

I think Phillips would say that once someone experiences hell they'll definitely change their minds, but I won't try to speak for him. It's been too long since I read his book.

I think Phillips would say that once someone experiences hell they'll definitely change their minds,

He must have warmed to the idea of purgatory, but I didn't read his book.

Athos
Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
I think Phillips would say that once someone experiences hell they'll definitely change their minds,
He must have warmed to the idea of purgatory, but I didn't read his book.

It's been a long time since I read it but I'm going to risk misrepresenting him a bit and go by my Swiss-cheese memory.
I believe he rejected the idea of Purgatory in the RC sense, as a place of "cleansing" or whatever it is they think goes on there. I believe he just sees it as a place where the "wicked" go but they can escape eventually. I don't think he saw any kind of purifying aspect to hell.
Don't quote me too extensively on that, though. I repeat: memory full of holes.

It seems we got a little off the track here. The thread title is Universalism. I understand that to mean all will be saved. There is no eternal place for the unsaved since there are no unsaved. Certainly no hell as traditionally understood. Works for me.