The final tally is not in yet. But here are some numbers of money spent in Afghanistan

$82.9 Billion to train and equip the Afghan Army .
$8.9 billion anti-narcotics
$1.5 billion on that Taj Mahal we call the US Embassy in Kabul
Love this one .... over $800 million (and maybe billions since 2001) to encourage Taliban and other Islamist groups to respect women, including $27 million from USAID to “Promote: Women’s Rights Groups and Coalitions” and $6.7 million to prevent “Gender Based Violence.
$174 million for drones that went missing . The drones were meant to help the Afghan Army .But were never used . Then the Afghans lost track of them .
$145 billion for reconstruction efforts .
$105 million to an NGO to “assistance in building Afghanistan by developing enterprises.”
$94.8 million to create the American University in Kabul .
$89 million for Afghan elections.
You can't make this up ; $9.4 million to establish carpet export center
Kabul Carpet Export Center (KCEC) | U.S. Agency for International Development (usaid.gov) (https://www.usaid.gov/news-information/fact-sheets/kabul-carpet-export-center-kcec)
$3.1 million to build a training center for female Afghan police officers

Thankfully we only have a national debt of 30 tril so it's not like we really needed the money or anything.

Taliban Seizes Billions in US-Supplied Weaponry (yahoo.com) (https://www.yahoo.com/now/taliban-seizes-billions-us-supplied-230558799.html)

Flashback July 8 2021 :

Q Mr. President, some Vietnamese veterans see echoes of their experience in this withdrawal in Afghanistan. Do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam, with some people feeling —

THE PRESIDENT: None whatsoever. Zero. What you had is — you had entire brigades breaking through the gates of our embassy — six, if I’m not mistaken.

The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable.

Remarks by President Biden on the Drawdown of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/)

WRONG !
Now we have William Burns, the head of the CIA, stating he is "very proud "of the analysis the CIA gave to our political leaders.

“As the president has said publicly, none of us anticipated that the Afghan government was going to flee as quickly as it did, that the Afghan military was going to collapse as fast as it did,” “Having said that, I think CIA at least was always on the more pessimistic end of the spectrum in terms of highlighting, you know, over the course of the spring and the summer, the obvious ways in which the Taliban were advancing rapidly and how this was hollowing out in many ways, not just the political leadership but also the military.”

CIA director ‘proud’ of Afghanistan analysis despite disastrous Taliban takeover | Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/cia-very-proud-afghanistan-analysis-disastrous-taliban-takeover)

Oh ,I get it the CIA was less wrong than other parts of the government .That is the new standard of excellence and performance evaluation. At a minimum ,mistakes need to be admitted and learned from. It doesn't appear that will happen.

update The US recently sent a package of sophisticated long range rocket launching systems to Ukraine to the tune of $270 million . This is the M142 HIMARS multiple launch rocket system (MLRS).. Each rocket costs about $100,000 and much more when the costs of the launcher and logistics are added into the total cost of a launch . The weapon system is described as a "full-spectrum, combat-proven, all-weather, 24/7, lethal and responsive, wheeled precision strike weapons system." byThe U.S. Army Acquisition Support Center .It was sent to Ukraine despite the fact that Clueless had said that long range systems would not be included in our support of Ukraine

July 24 Russia hit a storage depot destroying more than 100 of the missiles .

Russia Destroys More Than 100 HIMARS Missiles: Defense Ministry (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-destroys-more-than-100-himars-missiles-defense-ministry/ar-AA102rzX?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7b4d335a195544838070c33f9af986a4)

Russia also has claimed to have destroyed four of launch platforms, including one support vehicle, between July 5 and July 20.....a claim General Mark Miley denies .

Since the delivery of the system Russia has said that the west sending longer range system justifies them expanding their war aims in Ukraine beyond the Donbas .

The US is replacing the 100 HIMAR Rockets that the Russians destroyed .
as part of a $550 million 'KACHING !!

In addition Adam Kizinger (Rino ILL.) included a provision in the new Defense Authorization Bill that would provide $100 million to train Ukraine pilots to fly US combat jets . Woohoo !! Then we can start sending them the high end $$$$$ equipment.

So far since the latest version of the Ukraine -Russia war began February 24 ,we have given Ukraine $10 billion in weapons . Add $2 billion more in military aid since the conflict began in 2014 after the Maiden Revolution in Ukraine in 2013 that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych. He had refused to sign an economic agreement with the EU .

Yanukovych was a corrupt leader at least as corrupt as Zelenskyy or the current occupant of the White House . He had been duly elected in what was regarded as a fair election .He was hated in west Ukraine but East Ukraine supported him.
His opting for a Russian economic offer was the tipping point. Angry demonstrators filled Kiev’s Independence Square, known as the Maidan.

The war party in the US went to work. John McCain travelled to Kiev and in the square stood in solidarity with opposition leader Oleg Tyagnibok.

The emperor put his war hawkstress ,Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs into motion.
She traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations ;at one point handing out cookies to the demonstrators . The US was unambiguously supporting the anti-government factions .
Nuland had phone calls with opposition leaders discussing who would serve in a post Yanukovych government . The Russians intercepted that call.

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957)

Nuland went so far as to suggest Quid Pro Joe as VP could travel there to give support to the demonstrators .

Talk about foreign interference in a country's political process !

2 years later all the conversation was about alleged Russian meddling in the American political process . All we did was assist in the ousting of a duly elected President of another nation.

Russia invaded in 2014 to seize Crimea that had historically been Russian since 1783 ;where a vital strategically important naval base was located .

I imagine if our current crop of political leaders did the responsible thing and added a tax increase to pay for all of this foreign aid, then we would find out if the American people really support it or not.

The head of Amnesty International Ukraine has resigned because a report by the organization that Ukraine forces are using civilians as human shields is being ignored .

UN report confirms Ukrainians’ use of civilians as “human shields” - World Socialist Web Site (wsws.org) (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/19/zrjy-j19.html)

Ally to the administration ,The Slimes Thomas Friedman writes;

Back in April it was reported that only 30-40 % of US supplied weapons were making it to the front lines .But CBS reports that number has improved .

The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on.There is deep mistrust between the White House and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine — considerably more than has been reported. And there is funny business going on in Kyiv.On July 17, Zelensky fired his country’s prosecutor general and the leader of its domestic intelligence agency — the most significant shake-up in his government since the Russian invasion in February. It would be the equivalent of Biden firing Merrick Garland and Bill Burns on the same day. But I have still not seen any reporting that convincingly explains what that was all about. It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kyiv for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there. (More on the dangers of that another day.)

Opinion | Why Pelosi’s Visit to Taiwan Is Utterly Reckless - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/opinion/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-china.html)

Ukraine's president fires spy chief and top state prosecutor | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-president-fires-security-service-chief-prosecutor-general-2022-07-17/)

The German Newspaper Die Welt is publishing a bio of Zelensky accusing him of 'corruption on an industrial scale " A film about his off shore accounts was banned in Ukraine at the end of last year.

"OFFSHORE 95" Secrets of the President Zelenskyy's business - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp0WWZbNGq4&t=8s)

sanctions are failing . Russia has never had more energy revenue than it has now . And winter is fast approaching . Russia has had some military set backs .But the net result of their meat grinder approach to warfare is that they make slow progress and Ukraine forces slowly retreat .

Soon Europe will face the choice of freeze or force a political status quo end to the war .

A different slant on $$$$, but just as concerning. This enormous spending of money by the wealthy concerns me. In this case it's conservatives benefitting, but the money has been flowing on the liberal side in even larger amounts. Maybe it shouldn't, but it bothers me some. What do they expect for this money??


A conservative nonprofit poised to spend during the upcoming 2022 midterm elections and beyond received a record donation of $1.6 billion last year, Fox News has confirmed.
The group, The Marble Freedom Trust, is captained by Leonard Leo, a conservative strategist known for his leadership of the Federalist Society and work in causes related to abortion law and Supreme Court nominations.
The donation came from Barre Seid, an electronics manufacturing mogul.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-conservative-group-gets-1-6-billion-donation

What we have here is ONE conservative organization that contributed almost as much as ONE of the teacher's unions . (AFT -NEA with donations from the dues of 1.7 million teachers in the organization )

The Federalist money comes from voluntary contribution . The AFT NEA compels members to pay dues as part of their employment contract .

ok more .

The money came from Barre Seid of Trippe Lite ;a very successful electronics device manufacturer. He gave all his shares of the company to Marble Freedom Trust ;the 401c run by Leo of the Heritage Foundation . He later sold the company to an Irish conglomerate for $1.65 billion

The press is calling this "dark money " but it appears to me there is full disclosure here.

I'm not questioning any of that. It just concerns me that these kinds of funds are thrown around. As a general rule, he who gives money expects something in return.

of course that is so. As long as the donations are transparent then it is called a 1st amendment right . The alternative is worse . Do we really want the government in complete control ? You can have free speech with First Amendment protecting political speech and the use of resources (printing presses, the internet, money) to facilitate that speech or you can have the government dictating the terms .In a truly free society, people should be able to give whatever they want to whomever they choose, including candidates for public office.

I agree that it's the better of two not very great choices. I just wonder if it is insuring that the rich and wealthy are given far more consideration. Maybe not. Just seems a little alarming to me.

I am continuing to reserach this . I find it telling that the lefties blowing a gasket over this keep calling it dark money. The definition of dark money is funds raised for the purpose of influencing elections by nonprofit organizations that are not required to disclose the identities of their donors.. But the donor identity is clear in this case.

I find it disturbing but amusing that the Dems have defined the term and then decry it while the Dems have been the biggest benefactors of so called dark money .
The Dems out raised and out spent so called 'dark money ' in 2020 . But now because a conservative is involved they dust off their old 'Citizen's United ' belly aches . Bottom line ;either the 1st amendment matters or it doesn't . IMO even the disclosure compomise I support erodes the 1st amendment

Armed with donor lists, powerful politicians could shift the target of their attacks from group to the individual Americans who support them. The result would be a loss of donations to groups that speak out, a chilling of political speech.
Restrictions expands the Federal government's control of the political process and political speech .
Saying more $ is more power is a given like saying dogs bark . Restrictions don't change that reality . Once the Dems stopped howling about it and learned to live with it ,they adjusted accordingly .

Yes the alternative is much worse . There is no way I would accept the proposition that career swamp critters could dictate the term of how someone can use their influence in the political process. Might as well call it the incumbent security act .

The war is 6 months old . Yesterday was Ukraine's independence day. Clueless celebrated it by pledging another $3 billion present.This is the single largest US aid package for Ukraine.

Thought you might like to know . Now go back to binge watching 'Stranger Things ' .

Clueless is requesting that Congress authorize $$$$$ 13.7 billion more monopoly money in additional security and economic assistance for Ukraine.

White House asks Congress for $13.7B in Ukraine-related funding | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3625876-white-house-asks-congress-for-13-7b-in-ukraine-related-funding/)

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305641977_513215694142005_5164138230096593176_n.jp g?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nvrkBSsW5qUAX9IgUIj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9XNI31pA_9MueSODI1pIv0MUyf5DlBZ7QEnucba1zS 9A&oe=63238120

ka ching $$$$$$$



$12 billion more .

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQw9kpewlT2Rfw8qtpnsdvYQON0EwSsy hLOognv1A5p9A&s


U.S. Congress negotiators set nearly $12 bln in new Ukraine aid -sources | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congress-negotiators-set-12-bln-new-ukraine-aid-2022-09-26/)

so progressive members of Congress had a moment of showing spine ..... before they went all wet noodle .

They all signed a letter to Clueless Joe urging he push for a negotiated settlement . See the signees ;all the ususal suspects of the Squad and other radical leftie .

B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf (house.gov) (https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf)

Problem is their timing sucks coming after Russia annexing parts of Ukraine and dropping Iranian drones on Ukraine's energy infrastructure before a very cold winter .

Progressive Democrats shot themselves in the foot with letter urging talks with Russia, claiming it was outdated and blaming staff for its release (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/progressive-democrats-shot-themselves-in-the-foot-with-letter-urging-talks-with-russia-claiming-it-was-outdated-and-blaming-staff-for-its-release/ar-AA13mFXs?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2eeeb02065b24e69902da41f9333c6cb)

Someone told them their timing sucks . So today they recanted the letter ;and blamed the release of the letter on lowly staffers .

Now I for one believe there is only a negotiated solution to the war. However ;there is no doubt that such settlement will not happen until the belligerents are ready to negotiate . I hope they are ready for it before nuke weapons fly ;or the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Powerplant ....the largest nuclear power plant in Europe and among the 10 largest in the world melts down

The water supply is damaged going to the plant ;and of course nuclear plants rely on external water to cool the reactors . As Ukrainian troops advance on Kherson they threaten the Russian occupation of Crimea

There is a dam that supplies cooling water to the plant . The Russians have it wired to blow it .
Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant is ‘inextricably connected’ to the Kakhovka dam Kyrylo Budanov, Ukraine’s chief of defense intelligence, explains what may happen in the battle for Kherson — Meduza (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/10/24/zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-is-inextricably-connected-to-the-kakhovka-dam)

We are looking at the possibility of a Chernobyl event .

One thing the first Bush was good at was putting together an international coalition to reign in pirates. Sadly, we have Biden now.

One thing the first Bush was good at was putting together an international coalition to reign in pirates. Sadly, we have Biden now.
Why were pirates reigning?

Why do you ask?

You said so. Or Bush just wanted them to.

That's doubtful.

Then whom did he want to reign?

There was only one target of a multinational coalition during the first Bush's presidency and that was Hussein and his Iraqi military.

There was only one target of a multinational coalition during the first Bush's presidency and that was Hussein and his Iraqi military.
So no pirates.

OK, Miss Literal!!

OK, Miss Literal!!
Nothing to do with literal.

Use the word 'rein ' and the meaning becomes clearer .

A coalition of NATO members have joined to give material support to Ukraine so the war can effectively be fought to the last Ukrainian.

Unfortunately the time for diplomacy was before the war began. War is a failure of diplomacy. And I'm not taking about the events that led immediately prior to the February invasion. The roots of this war go at least as far back as the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the possibility of Russia joining the west .

btw ;with everything at stake ;why hasn't Clueless Joe had a major address to the nation explaining to America why it is important for us to expend resources in the defense of Ukraine ? Given that we are one miscalculation away from being dragged into a nuclear war ,I would think that is the prudent and responsible thing for our President to do.

And where is the 5th column...... ooops I mean 4th estate demanding an answer ?

Use the word 'rein ' and the meaning becomes clearer .Very true. My mistake.


A coalition of NATO members have joined to give material support to Ukraine so the war can effectively be fought to the last Ukrainian."We believe in freedom so strongly that we're willing for you to die in defense of it."

ask Iraqi Kurds about it . Ask Afghanis about it . When the going gets tough...... the tough get going .

ask Iraqi Kurds about it . Ask Afghanis about itTwo instances of monumental shame for us, and in particular the latter one. It just illustrates the importance of really thinking through the potential consequences before we commit our military to conflict. Having a withdrawal plan is important.

and it starts where we commit only when our national interests are involved . As far as I can tell our involvement in Ukraine serves the Biden crime family interests . I reflect on Hunter's involvemenet in the Ukraine energy sector ;and how quickly the deep state was ready to remove Trump from office over his asking Ukraine to investigate it .

So who in the administration is having a dialogue with their counterparts in Russia ? Remember ;the use of nukes has been threatened on more than one occasion .

During the Cuban missile crisis dialogue was open although mostly secret . It may very well be that back channel dialogue between the US and Russia is ongoing . But officially there have been no conversations between Clueless and Putin. . There have been 2 conversations between Defense Sec Lloyd Austin and his counterpart in the last week . There has been a total of 1 conversation between Sec State Antony Blinken and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov since Russia launched the war. That is ONE conversation between the 2 top diplomats of US and Russia. By appearances ,diplomacy is not top on the agenda,

As much as I disagree with the progressive caucus , proposing dialogue to end the war should not be a matter of public embarrassment for them. Nor should they be accused of appeasement .It is very disturbing that the nation has adopted a group think approach to this being 'total victory ' as if we are in the middle of WWII .

Despite recent gains by Ukrainian forces and Russian retreats ,General winter and Colonel Frost are on the way .... advantage Russia. Putin's mobilized troops have time to train. Russia has time to restock. Clueless Joe's generals know this .

Top U.S. general urges Ukraine-Russia talks, Biden advisers resist (yahoo.com) (https://www.yahoo.com/video/top-u-general-urges-ukraine-104200514.html)

Clueless Joe has his war that can carry him through 2024 .

The price tag so far this year. ..........$52 billion of which $28 billion is direct military aid .
For perspective ;the US spent less during the most expensive 5 years of the Afghanistan war. We are depleting our stock pile of weapons . The military industrial complex is very happy.

Of the following Capitols ;which one has the most vested interest in Ukraine Brussels or Washington. Clearly the EU has the most interest in a war on it's border .

What has been the EU financial commitment ? $16 billion to date .

We are sending feet on the ground in the form of 'advisors' .

U.S. military inspectors in Ukraine to keep further track of weapons and equipment (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-military-inspectors-ukraine-keep-track-weapons-equipment-rcna54891)

Remember how well that worked out in the early 1960s .

The 101 Airborne is deployed into Europe for the 1st time since WWII

US military forces 'fully prepared' to cross into Ukraine (washingtonexaminer.com) (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/courage-strength-optimism/us-military-forces-prepared-cross-into-ukraine)

war gaming on the Ukraine border

The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-news-russia-us-army-101st-airborne-nato-war-games-romania/)

Despite sanctions and pressure ,the Russian economy is in fair shape. Russia is still exporting high priced oil ......just not to the west .

Russia's oil exports to Asia hit the highest so far this year as time is running out before new sanctions kick in (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/russias-oil-exports-to-asia-hit-the-highest-so-far-this-year-as-time-is-running-out-before-new-sanctions-kick-in/ar-AA13PB0c#image=AA13P8cI%7C3)

The Russian ruble has increased in value against the US dollar . They are getting a steady supply of weapons from Iran and the NORKS . India and China are buying its oil and gas.

Russia prepared the battle field for the winter by knocking out much of Ukraine's infrastructure. It will be a cold winter in Kieve without electricity . Food, water, and medicine are scarce.

Ukraine cannot win this war. It has however put itself in an excellent position for a negotiated settlement . Zelenskyy needs to stop his demands of no Russians in Ukraine . Russia will never give up it's Black Sea fleet HQ in Crimea. Without a deal Russia will bleed Ukraine with a thousand cuts. The US under Clueless Joe will fight to the last Ukrainian and Zelenskyy will fight to the last US dollar.

War is business and the business of war is booming . The principles do not even try to hide it anymore. The Ukraine embassy held a celebration of it's war machine sponsored not so subtly by their US corporate sponsors . The logos of military contractors Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Pratt & Whitney, and
Lockheed Martin were emblazoned on the invitation as the event’s sponsors.
$ billions in monopoly bucks and all I got was a corporate sponsorship for a party .

https://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2022-12/242776_5_.jpg

Are you invited? If so, then I'm impressed. My invitation must have been lost somehow in the mail.

It's over with. Note the date. I wore my long purple gown and tennis shoes. It was potluck, so I brought a wonderful Corn Casserole and Teriyaki Chicken Wings. The best part of the event was the display and adoption of shelter animals. I now share my life with a beautiful Golden Retriever!

Uhm...no, you weren't there. But I have no doubt you can make a killer corn casserole.

Want the recipe? Mrs. Markarova couldn't wait to duplicate it at home for Christmas dinner!

I'd be happy to give it to my wife. Wisely, we let her do the cooking around here.

haven't made corn casserole but I whip up casseroles with tuna or other left overs . I grill all types of chicken wings recipes . One of the best things about being in SC is that I can fire up the grill almost year round .

20 years in Afghanistan . But in the end the people of Afhanistan are free at last Right ?

Afghanistan: Taliban closes universities to women - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64045497)

Another great big vote of thanks to the Biden admin.

Yeah, Clueless screwed up the withdrawal. But it became a failed mission when we did not chase OBL into Pakistan and destroy him and anyone who got in the way. When we decided to try to turn this pedophile ;woman hating ;goat fornicating culture into a liberal democracy the mission was doomed to failure.

This is all retrospect because I bought into the narrative that people yearn for liberty. But in truth many people in this world are content with serfdom (including in the good ole USA) .

We should've left and told them we would destroy any terror camp but otherwise if they want to live in the stone age it isn't our concern.

We should've left and told them we would destroy any terror camp but otherwise if they want to live in the stone age it isn't our concern.Just about right. If it was just a matter of a few bucks, then different story, but when it becomes a matter of blood then that's too much.

Navy leaders are sounding the alarm . Soon we will have a choice ;arm Ukraine or arm the US. Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro ,and James G. Stavridis; retired U.S. Navy admiral who formerly served as the NATO supreme allied commander for Europe from 2009 to 2013,both raised concerns .

Navy Secretary Warns: If Defense Industry Can’t Boost Production, Arming Both Ukraine and the US May Become ‘Challenging’ - Defense One (https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/01/navy-secretary-warns-if-defense-industry-cant-boost-production-arming-both-ukraine-and-us-may-become-challenging/381722/)


Starvis predicted a stalemate for some time with Ukraine having the advantage on the ground and Russia owning the sky . Curious then that the next big push by the West is to give tanks to Ukraine. The battlefield is littered with the carcass of tanks . The Russians were not able to gain an advantage on the ground with tanks and neither did Ukraine . Drones,mobile anti-tank equipment,IEDs,attack helicopters and precision artillery have laid them to waste. Tanks are no longer adequately defended.

The arsenal is being depleted and production has not been ramped up sufficently to replace the arms we are sending . Given costs and supply chain challenges and $$$$$$$costs it will not happen soon.

Part of the air defense concerns will be addressed when Patriot systems get deployed . That will mean extensive training of Ukraine personnel.

They are coming to America for that purpose. Why don't we just declare war and get it over with ?

Ukrainian Troops Headed to U.S. for Patriot Missile Training > U.S. Department of Defense > Defense Department News (https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3264235/ukrainian-troops-headed-to-us-for-patriot-missile-training/#:~:text=Last%20month%2C%20the%20U.S.%20committed, the%20system%20at%20Fort%20Sill.&text=Soldiers%20conduct%20Patriot%20missile%20live ,%2C%20Nov.%205%2C%202022.)

btw ;350,000 Russian conscripts have been concentrated on the Ukraine Belarus border ;and are waiting for the ground to freeze to open a new front in the war. The Belarusian defense ministry confirmed the arrival of the contingent last week . This force will be combined with troops from Belarus .
The fact is that fighting in the areas in the south and east that have seen the heavy concentration of WWI style combat is slowly bleeding Ukraine's ability to conduct the war .


But in the country's east, where Russian forces are intensifying efforts on the embattled Donbas region (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-invasion-day-104-1.6479838), weeks of brutal combat have pushed the defenders to a breaking point.
Now, under ceaseless bombardment and after immense casualties, some Ukrainian troops say they are feeling abandoned by their leadership — left to die in hopeless conditions.



'In this war, the ordinary infantryman is nothing': Ukrainian soldiers in Donbas feel abandoned and outgunned | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/eastern-ukraine-bakhmut-soldiers-exhausted-1.6278984)

Ukraine succeeded in fighting a force of 160,000 poorly led Russians to a standstill in the 1st year of the war. Russia has adapted and reinforced. Ukraine just does not have the manpower to reinforce in kind.

Ukraine succeeded in fighting a force of 160,000 poorly led Russians to a standstill in the 1st year of the war.

In the first year?? Do you mean the war that was supposed to be a walkover for Russia in THREE DAYS?

Why are you supporting Russia with your posts?

Evidently telling the truth now amounts to supporting Russia.

I ask you why you favor the wholesale slaughter of Ukraine . They can't win this war . Yes Russian ineptitude and massive western arms have prolonged the war , So far all it has done is destroy a generation of Ukrainians

Show me where I have supported Russia unless you mean I do not swallow the government line since the fall of the Soviet Union

I am a realist, I am quite sure that the REAL reason for the war was NATO and EU expansion towards the Russian border .U.S. and European leaders blundered in attempting to turn Ukraine into a Western stronghold on Russia’s border ;and the Ukrainians are paying the price.

This is not new starting with Putin. Before him Yeltzin warned about NATO expansion during NATO's air campaign against their ally Serbia.

Yeltsin pointed to the NATO attacks as evidence that Russia has much to fear from Western plans to broaden the alliance to include former Soviet republics and former Communist countries in Eastern Europe.



“It would be a major political error on the part of those who are now insisting on expanding NATO,” Yeltsin warned. “It will mean a conflagration of war throughout all Europe.”
With its bombing raids aimed at forcing the Serbian rebels to the negotiating table, “NATO is already showing what it is capable of,” Yeltsin stated--"only of bombing, and then counting the trophies of how many are killed among the civilian population.”





Yeltsin Lashes Out at NATO Strikes in Bosnia - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com) (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-09-09-mn-44006-story.html)

But the Russians were too weak at the time to stop NATO’s eastward movement.

After incorporating most former eastern block nations that did not border Russia (except the Baltic States )into NATO , NATO all but gave an invitation to Georgia and Ukraine to join. in 2008

Russia invaded Georgia to protect Russian ethnic regions . That should've been a warning that we had pushed Russia as far as Russia would go . We were willing to have a world war in 1963 for less than what we have done to threaten their national security .

But there was more .

2014 the US not so covertly assisted in the overthrow of the Russia friendly duly elected President of Ukraine ( according to international observers ) Viktor Yanukovych He rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer. That was enough to oust him.

John McCain went to Kiev to dine with opposition leaders and demonstrate US support for their cause . Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs under the emperor traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations to demonstrate US support for them.Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland phone call in which she and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific personnel in a post‐​Yanukovych government. In other words ;the US was planning a post coup government while Yanukovych was still the country's President . So much for respecting the democratic process.,

The so called Euromaidan Revolution toppled him .The emperor's regime and the compliant press called it a popular uprising against a brutal regime without stating their own meddling


Russia reacted by seizing control of Crimea for fear Russia would lose it's naval base there .
Russia was pushed into a corner and we were ,shocked , shocked that they pushed back

I am quite sure that the REAL reason for the war was NATO and EU expansion

The REAL reason for the war was Russia invading Ukraine! Duh.


Show me where I have supported Russia

Your reasons are the same as Russian propaganda.

Maybe but there are plenty foreign policy experts in the country that agree with my POV.
Some are
John Mearsheimer ;the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago

The author of America's policy of containment and former US Ambassador to Russia,the late George Kennan was a long time critic of US post Cold War policies .

The late profesor emeritus of Russian studies at Princeton University and New York University, Stephen F Cohen (husband of Katrina vanden Heuvel ) was very critical of NATO expansion ;and predicted it would lead to war.

None of tbese and many others in the realist school of American foreign policy can be truthfully charged with being Russian propagandists .

Apologists for an indefensible US post cold war policy accuse critics of being propagandists to shut them up

None of tbese and many others in the realist school of American foreign policy can be truthfully charged with being Russian propagandists

None of those mentioned support Putin's policy of invading his neighbors to create a new Russian Empire.

They all predicted that would be the result . Did we come to the brink in 1963 because the Russian were threatening us from Cuba ? It was only good luck that prevented it .

That is where we are today except now there is no back door diplomacy occurring that I know of . All there is is escalation.

now there is no back door diplomacy occurring that I know of . All there is is escalation.

You don't back down in the face of a bully. You confront the bully whether it's a person or a nation.

Lack of confrontation in 1939 led to WW2 and 50+ million dead.

So you want us to send troops in to fight ? Because that is the ONLY way Ukraine can win. The Russians have been sloppy ;replacing Generals as often as Lincoln had to until he found Grant . Grant basically bludgeoned the South into submission. The Union had fodder to spare .The South didn't .

Russia has not even committed to full mobilization while Ukraine is losing a generation and the Ukraine diaspora grows .

We talk of sending offensive weapons like tanks . I already mentioned that they have outlived their purpose in modern warfare . It is like the Brits sending the Light Brigade into a cannon formation during the at the Battle of Balaclava Crimea .
Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die.

There's unconfirmed talk about sending a handful of Abram tanks that would make no difference; or some old German Leopard II tanks (which reportedly would take a year to renovate ) The Brits talk about sending 10 Challenger II tanks(bulky huge slow and a complicated tank to operate _)

Ukraine needs at least a thousand to make any difference. What have they gotten in armored vehicles from us ? Dribs and drabs.
50 Bradley's about as many to equip a company or 2 .

U.S. weapons package for Ukraine includes 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles -officials | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-weapons-package-ukraine-includes-50-bradley-fighting-vehicles-officials-2023-01-05/)

We don't have any more to give without seriously depleting our own stock .

The M777 howitzers we sent are being destroyed by Russian drones and .Ukrainian mishandling . The barrels have to be swapped out in Poland ,not close to the battlefield .

Artillery Is Breaking in Ukraine. It’s Becoming a Problem for the Pentagon. - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html)

In less than a year we have sent them over a million rounds of artillery shells .

Ukraine Has Received Over A Million Artillery Rounds From The U.S. (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-has-now-received-over-a-million-artillery-rounds-from-the-u-s)

At the start of the war Ukraine had over a thousand tanks ;missile systems armored carriers . They have all been destroyed . All the weapons sent by former Warsaw pact nations like Poland have all been destroyed .At least they could operate those . All the NATO weapons being sent cannot be used without extensive training .

Even if properly trained it just is not enough to make a difference . But we can go on with a clear conscience that 'oh well ;we tried '

Western propaganda feeds on wishful thinking fantasy that Ukraine can win and Russia that big boogieman threat from the mid 20th century will be destroyed .

What is our real bottom line ? How far will we commit before we do our typical cut and run ? No one challenges the premise so instead we go on suspending disbelief .

Ukraine's army is bleeding out and we keep sending them false hope. Once the war became a Verdun like war of attrition their fate was sealed . US Grant sent waves of Union troops at the Confederates .He was willing to take the losses . The Confederates fought nobly but could not replace their losses . This is what is happening in Ukraine .

Unless NATO troops enter into the conflict ;or something domestically happens in Russia that changes leadership and policy ,then the end is a fait accompli .

It gives me no pleasure to say it . But I see it as the way it is instead of a fanciful way it should be .

The Confederates fought on in 64 and 65 in the hope (vain, as it turned out) that Lincoln would be defeated because of the enormous casualties being suffered by the North. That didn't pan out, and so defeat became inevitable. I think the Ukes are trying the same tactic. If they can make Putin look foolish enough, then perhaps he'll be deposed, and his successor might be more open to an equitable peace agreement. I'm afraid Tom's scenario is the one most likely to pan out, and it will be a tragedy for Ukraine.

The world needs to make it clear that it will not forget this savage violation of international peace by the Russkies. They should be made to pay in the long run.

Rarely mentioned is that Dem candidate General McClellan did not support ending the war. He was just opposed to abolition . He wanted to continue the fight and restore the Union.

In that he ran counter to the Dem platform of a settled and negotiated peace with an independent Confederacy. He actually divided the Dems . I am not sure that history is accurate when it contends that Lincoln's fate was dependent on battlefield victories .

The South was not going to accept a peace that forced them back into the Union .The war was existential to them . So they fought the 'Lost Cause' to it's conclusion.

Ukraine victory looks increasingly doubtful. A more likely scenario is a repeat of Putin's Chechnya campaign . He left both Chechnya (and Syria )moonscapes before the war ended (which no one in the west gave too sh+ts about ....so much for 'You don't back down in the face of a bully. You confront the bully whether it's a person or a nation.' )

The best outcome I see is a negotiated peace. The sooner the better .

I'm afraid you're right. It's a somewhat bitter pill to swallow, but it's how the world operates. I'm not sure we're doing them a big favor by enabling them to fight on.