The Tennes family operates a farm outside of East Lansing, Michigan. The Christian couple hosts weddings on the farm but will not allow gay weddings because of their religious beliefs. The city of East Lansing, which has a "non-discrimination" city policy, has refused to allow the Tennes family to sell their farm produce at the city operated farmers' market because, they say, the Tennes have violated the "non-discrimination" policy. So they are going to solve the supposed problem of discrimination by engaging in even more discrimination and what amounts to religious persecution?? Will the city of East Lansing censure itself for discriminating against religious views, thus violating their own non-discrimination policy?

Hello court case. "Just like Catholic Social Services in the Supreme Court’s recent Fulton v. City of Philadelphia decision, Steve Tennes seeks to operate his family farm, Country Mill, consistent with the tenets of his Catholic faith but ‘does not seek to impose those beliefs on anyone else,'" the trial brief for Country Mill says. "Yet City officials in East Lansing dislike Tennes’s religious beliefs, speech, and practice. So, the City created a policy to ban Tennes—and only him—from its Farmer’s Market."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-farm-east-lansing-trial-religious-objection-gay-marraige

Freedom is alive and well in america

Says the man whose country is in government mandated lockdown and is prevented by law from owning a firearm with which to defend himself.

At the farmers' market, LGBT people can buy produce from the Tennes' farm (horrors!). Thus, the Tennes family must set up a conveniently placed roadside stand at their farm and come up with a strategy to invite customers. Of course, they will have to do an LBGT checklist as each customer shows up. A farmstand would give them control over who buys their produce; at the farmers' market they have no control.

It would seem you didn't bother to make yourself familiar with the story, so you made an inaccurate observation. Do your homework first. When you do, you will find that the Tennes have no problems with doing business with virtually anyone. However, they actively participate in weddings held on their farm, so it would appear they would be supporting any so-called wedding between two men or two women. Their religious faith prohibits that. But at any rate, that's their call on it and they should be entitled to that.

Still not sure why East Lansing discriminating against the Tennes' family is seen as a solution to their perceived discrimination. There is only one group here trying to impose their beliefs on others, and that is East Lansing.

the Tennes have no problems with doing business with virtually anyone.
Then they are frauds. When it comes to money, like the Pharisees, their religious beliefs go out the window.

Again, do your homework. You are making no sense. As a person who honestly believes that Ruth and Naomi were lesbian lovers, I don’t think they will be seeking your advice on their religious beliefs.

Your money comment is silly. They got paid for weddings. If money is the goal, they would not have turned away business.

Your money comment is silly. They got paid for weddings. If money is the goal, they would not have turned away business.
So why do they refuse to accept payment for a non-binary wedding but happily sell their produce to the LGBT+ community?

Read the article!!! Besides, I have already answered that for you.

Read the article!!!
Okay. Correction: They WOULD happily sell their produce to anyone, LGBT+ et al.

It makes no difference if the woman who believes that Naomi and Ruth were lesbian lovers agrees with the Tennes or not. They have a right to their very orthodox religious beliefs.

It makes no difference if the woman who believes that Naomi and Ruth were lesbian lovers agrees with the Tennes or not.
It was an expressed supposition, not a belief or truism.

They have a right to their very orthodox religious beliefs.
Then stay out of the marketplace with their stupid demands and limited orthodoxy!!! I sure hope they refuse to allow a marriage ceremony on their farm if any members of the wedding party or any of the guests have tattoos.

It was an expressed supposition, not a truism.Weak, weak, weak. Either own it or reject it.



They have a right to their very orthodox religious beliefs.



Then stay out of the marketplace with their stupid demands and limited orthodoxy!!!They are not the ones making stupid demands. That would be East Lansing. They are basically being asked to receive the same access to the farmers market that everyone else has without their religious views being discriminated against.

It is beyond amazing that you think Ruth and Naomi were lesbian lovers, as well as Jesus and John being gay lovers, but you are critical of their orthodoxy??? About all that can be said of that is "Wow". And then you really think that you should be able to deny them access to the marketplace because their religious faith does not agree with your strange political views?

You really need to take a few days off. You are coming across as increasingly irrational.

You really need to take a few days off. You are coming across as increasingly irrational.
As usual, you are mixing tomatoes with oranges and making a rather nasty-tasting fruit salad. Your lack of reading comprehension has become very troubling to me.

As usual, you are mixing tomatoes with oranges and making a rather nasty-tasting fruit salad. Your lack of reading comprehension has become very troubling to me.Like I said...increasingly irrational. When you cannot respond to the content, then you are reduced to fruit salads and silly comments about reading comp. You keep digging the hole deeper.

The truth is, you don't know how to handle it when someone has beliefs which are informed and directed by the Bible rather than directed by her liberal political beliefs. So you end up with Jesus, Paul, John, Ruth, Naomi, David and Jonathan all being gay, ideas which are ridiculously out of step with the Bible.

Like I said...increasingly irrational. When you cannot respond to the content, then you are reduced to fruit salads and silly comments about reading comp.
*yawn*

Can't respond to the content, so reduced to that? Sad.

This bears repeating. "The truth is, you don't know how to handle it when someone has beliefs which are informed and directed by the Bible rather than directed by her liberal political beliefs. So you end up with Jesus, Paul, John, Ruth, Naomi, David and Jonathan all being gay, ideas which are ridiculously out of step with the Bible."

This bears repeating. "The truth is, you don't know how to handle it when someone has beliefs which are informed and directed by the Bible rather than directed by her liberal political beliefs. So you end up with Jesus, Paul, John, Ruth, Naomi, David and Jonathan all being gay, ideas which are ridiculously out of step with the Bible."
And you know the "right beliefs" because....

When did I use the term "right beliefs"?

When did I use the term "right beliefs"?
You obviously believe they're righter than mine.

I haven't even talked about my beliefs here. But when you believe that Naomi, Ruth, Jesus, John, and Paul were all gay, then you have gone far astray from the Bible. That is, as you put it before, a "truism".

I haven't even talked about my beliefs here. But when you believe that Naomi, Ruth, Jesus, John, and Paul were all gay, then you have gone far astray from the Bible. That is, as you put it before, a "truism".
You apparently are "someone [who] has beliefs which are informed and directed by the Bible." And I never said what you say I said. I simply threw it out as a possibility. Can you prove from the Bible, O cherrypicker, that they weren't gay?

I never said what you say I said.You most certainly did.

Your statement on Ruth. "Well, I said I wouldn't tell anyone, not even you. And that woman named Ruth! Wow! It's amazing that there has been an LGBTQ+ community since the beginning of time."

Your statement on Jesus and John. "Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi -- and, atypically, unmarried. John was the disciple whom Jesus loved. Only one disciple had the courage to go with Jesus to his execution. That man clearly had a unique place in Jesus' heart. In all classic depictions of the Last Supper, John sits next to Jesus, very often his head resting on Jesus's breast. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom He loved standing at the foot of the cross on which He was dying, He said to his mother, 'Woman behold your son!' Then He said to John, 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

Your statement about Paul. "No, I didn't change the subject. And no, Paul doesn't make reference to them. You need a better concordance. Actually, Paul was probably gay."

You keep forgetting that this site has a great search feature. Nevertheless, if you are now backing away from those statements, then fine, but I will continue to attach them to you until you stop waffling and get on one side or the other.

As to your absurd comment about proving a negative from the Bible, I'll refer to this. But it's like saying can I prove that Wondergirl is NOT gay, a cross-dresser, a fundamentalist, a devil-worshipper, a communist, or any one of dozens of other "possibilities". It's nonsense. But what is posted here is enough to show it is a ridiculous proposition.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=845900&page=2&p=3838001#post3838001

You most certainly did.

You made your usual leap.

Sad to see you backtracking now that it is apparent how wild your statements have been. But if you are denouncing them, then thank goodness for that.

Sad to see you backtracking now that it is apparent how wild your statements have been. But if you are denouncing them, then thank goodness for that.
Am not backtracking anything. (You KNOW those Bible people were straight???)

Look me up when you get to heaven. I'll introduce you around to all the LGBT+ people.

I didn’t say it! I did say it!

you are very confused.

you are very confused.
About what?

about who Jl really is

About what?What you believe. All those people are gay until it becomes inconvenient for you, and then just MAYBE Jesus and John and Paul and Ruth and Naomi and David and Jonathan were gay. As I have said many times, evasion is your middle name.

I'm curious. How is it that you are so sure you are going to heaven?

Tell us Jl how are you sure?

How am I sure? I believe the many statements of the Bible concerning how salvation works. One of my favorites is found in Hebrews 10. "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." Note the faithfulness of the one who has made the promise. John 3:16 is another. "Whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish, but have life everlasting." It is in His word that we have our assurance. It is in looking to Jesus that we have our salvation. Acts 3:19 is another helpful verse to me. "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord."

Anyone else? How about you, Clete?

Hello? Anyone else?

God has been very active in my life, has protected me and my loved ones from many possible upsets and tragedies. I return His love by reaching out to and helping others -- and telling them of His unconditional love for them.

I'm curious. How is it that you are so sure you are going to heaven?
What and where is heaven? Going there is the least of my worries. I'm here on earth for a reason. With God's help, I'm loving Him and others. NOW is what I'm focusing on. Heaven is a non issue for me.

So basically you're going to heaven because you've been a good person?



Heaven is a non issue for me.No it's not. You mention it constantly.

So basically you're going to heaven because you've been a good person?
I don't think that far ahead.

No it's not. You mention it constantly.
Huh? Where? If I do, it's only in response to you (or waltero). You're the Bible verse quoter (especially regarding hellfire and damnation), the builder of fundie Christian angst, the whipper-upper of damnation threats that you pluck from the Bible.

Those who have no regard for the Bible only quote it when it is convenient.

You cannot go to heaven by being good.

Those who have no regard for the Bible only quote it when it is convenient.
And I do my very best NOT to quote it and thus slam my Bible on top of a person's head or smack them in the face with it or piously hold it (upside down) while I pontificate in front of a church.

You cannot go to heaven by being good.
And you can?

You do a wonderful job of not quoting the Bible. That’s for sure.

No one can.

You cannot go to heaven by being good.
I do my best, with God's help, to be loving and kind NOW. That's not my ticket to heaven.

You do a wonderful job of not quoting the Bible. That’s for sure.
Quoting the Bible will get me what?

I do my best, with God's help, to be loving and kind NOW. That's not my ticket to heaven.OK. What is?


Quoting the Bible will get me what?In and of itself, nothing.

OK. What is [your ticket to heaven]?
Jesus' death and resurrection.

So you have faith in Jesus? If so, then I applaud you, though I cannot fathom why you would not have said so to begin with, but better late than never.

So you have faith in Jesus? If so, then I applaud you, though I cannot fathom why you would not have said so to begin with, but better late than never.
I don't want your applause. (Like, huh???) I told you ages ago I was baptized when I was three weeks old and grew up in a parsonage, attended Christian schools.

I don't stand on AMHD rooftops, shouting threats of hellfire while swinging my Bible up and down.

You're so funny when you get mad. It's always is a little surprising to see you get mad when asked about faith in Jesus.

No has suggested you stand on a rooftop and shout anything

You're so funny when you get mad. It's always is a little surprising to see you get mad when asked about faith in Jesus.
I never get mad, ever. Life is too short. Actually, I'm laughing at the absurdity of your posts.


No has suggested you stand on a rooftop and shout anything
You do.

I never get mad, ever. Life is too short.Yeah. Right.


You do.I do suggest you try studying your Bible and basing your life on it's teaching, but I have never suggested you shout from a rooftop. Jesus, however, did mention it. "What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs."

Oh well. Enough of this. Best wishes.

Oh well. Enough of this. Best wishes.
Goodbye, jlisenbe.

Oh yes so it is written, so it shall be done

However, they actively participate in weddings held on their farm, so it would appear they would be supporting any so-called wedding between two men or two women. I think it would be better described as "Promoting" if they were to provide such behavior in their home.

When they told them it's a no-go- and explained to them where they should go; ad-lib "there's a place right down the road that will provide the same service."  Then all Hell broke loose!!!! The Couple took it as them saying; "take your sin elsewhere, we don't practice in Sin! YOU DARE DENY US!!!   What do they want? Maybe they should have offered to pay for wedding if they used another vendor?

SO I want to get married. I know a place where they don't allow gay marriage...it's bound to be the best marriage ceremony EVER!!! How gay is that??? Do they want a gay marriage or not?



So why do they refuse to accept payment for a non-binary wedding but happily sell their produce to the LGBT+ community? Think about it,  They're supporting their community.

WG: You know your in error on this one, but you deny seeing the truth.

We can show support...it's another thing to promote!

We are to love and show that we care (even if we don't). If you find yourself promoting such behavior, you will be held accountable. 

Off to work. See you in a few months or so.

Welcome back, Walter!