Diversity of thought on policy began to dwindle (and has all but vanished) in the Republican Party. Beginning in the 1980s after the Party adopted, without compromise, Reaganomics, the social agenda of the evangelical Christian Right became the agenda of the Party.

Cut taxes no matter the deficit, deregulate business regardless of consequences, oppose abortion, oppose gay marriage, allow evangelical Christian beliefs preferential treatment above other religions, oppose all gun control, repeal civil rights reforms, and basically erode federal authority so states can roll back reforms in civil rights and equality for minorities in education, housing, and employment. Today, voting rights for Blacks are being attacked by Republican state legislatures.

Once a legitimate main-stream political party, the GOP has evolved downwards to an organization whose spokespeople have no regard for truth nor any regard for democratic principles of governance. Its rank-and-file has morphed into a mob believing the most outrageous lies and, at least once so far, tried to overthrow the legitimate existing government.

The Party and its minions are a current danger to America. All decent-thinking people should be aware of the danger especially in the next two elections in 2022 and 2024 when the electorate will choose between proto-fascism and democracy.

It is interesting that once the Republican Party was on the side of right, they freed the slaves at great cost, while the Demonrats persisted with outmoded institutions, but it seems the shoe is now on the other foot, the freed slaves have no memory and no loyalty and support the demonrats

It is interesting that once the Republican Party was on the side of right, they freed the slaves at great cost, while the Demonrats persisted with outmoded institutions, but it seems the shoe is now on the other foot, the freed slaves have no memory and no loyalty and support the demonrats

The African-Americans have an excellent memory and remember that the Republican Party has long since departed from the principles they held during the Civil War. The Republicans today - to extend the metaphor - are the plantation owners of the antebellum South.

premature post mortem . The Senate is split . The House is near split after Dems lost seats . Repubs hold majorities in State legislatures and Governors . In defeating Trump the Dems did not get that wave they anticipated ;and some of the races ;like the 2 Georgia Senate seats were decided by run offs .

I hear the same claims of parties dying every 4 years . 2012 I heard of a permanent Democrat majority . Then the Repub team was making the same claims after the 2014 midterms .

The Dems assume that demographics are in their favor . But even in losing ,Trump increased support of Black men and Hispanic voters in key swing states, that were considered solid Democrat in the emperor's reign .

The last time a political party went defunct was prior to the Civil War when sectional differences and the issue of slavery split the Whigs .Before that the Federalists became a regional party before they died .

The Dems keep a very fragile coalition together by promising identity politics freebees . Eventually the interests of their coalition will clash . You see it already. Quid is already dealing with it .
Squad goals: Ocasio-Cortez warns Biden patience is wearing thin | Democrats | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/20/democrats-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-squad-congress)

premature post mortem . The Senate is split . The House is near split after Dems lost seats . Repubs hold majorities in State legislatures and Governors . In defeating Trump the Dems did not get that wave they anticipated ;and some of the races ;like the 2 Georgia Senate seats were decided by run offs .

All the more dangerous is the Republican Party. Your post underlines the danger.


I hear the same claims of parties dying every 4 years. 2012 I heard of a permanent Democrat majority . Then the Repub team was making the same claims after the 2014 midterms . The Dems assume that demographics are in their favor . But even in losing ,Trump increased support of Black men and Hispanic voters in key swing states, that were considered solid Democrat in the emperor's reign. The last time a political party went defunct was prior to the Civil War when sectional differences and the issue of slavery split the Whigs. Before that the Federalists became a regional party before they died.

All of the above is indicative of how close the nation is to becoming a proto-fascist governed nation.

Don't blame the Repubs for stupid Dem policies like defund the police and their open border policies ....as well as opposing voter ID .

Don't blame the Repubs for stupid Dem policies like defund the police and their open border policies ....as well as opposing voter ID .

Hardly on a par with the overthrow of the government or rigging elections to ensure Republican victories.

Like the proto-fascist platform, you misconstrue defunding the police, open borders, and voter ID. Republican lies are now standard operating procedure. They hate government except when they ARE government.

defund the police
What do you believe "defund the police" means?

well it might mean going back to community policing instead of the paramilitary force the police have become

It is a very simple phrase to understand . There is no nuisance involved . Some are trying humpty dumpty language to cloud the plain meaning of the phrase But they do not fool anyone .

"Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies . It means budget cuts, staff cutting ,fewer resources to do their jobs The true goal is the dismantling of the local police departments ;as the Minneapolis City council has already passed (homicides are up 56% ) . NYC passed motions to gut $1 billion from the police budget .The crime rate in these cities ;already high ,will sky rocket . Portland's crime rate shot up ;still City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty is spearheading efforts to defund the police . The city is under assault by subversive insurrectionists that regularly attack's local government and Federal facilities . And still they look to gut the police . That is why 50 members of their riot squad quit this week . When given a choice ,the local pols chose black clad Antifa goons over police or local businesses . (Homicides are up 800% in Portland )
Los Angeles and Chicago have seen double-digit increases in their homicide rates this year .And yes ,police budgets were cut .

seems the model doesn't work, I wonder why there is such a big difference between your situation and ours. I know your cities are bigger, but the ethnicity of the populations is very different, as is the availability of guns and the organisation of the police force. No municipal police here, one State police force with full jurisdiction, so no political interference with the police fully funded by the state government. We also don't put people in prison for minor offences so we don't have a recidivist population

Clete The one true factor is that it is almost a guarantee that the guns used in most of the crimes are illegally obtained. The other true fact is that it is not those so called "assault rifles " that are being used in the vast majority of the crimes . Handguns are the weapon of choice for street thugs .

In one sentence you argue for community policing and in the next you condemn local policing .


I totally agree with your critique of the US prison system.

Diversity of thought on policy began to dwindle (and has all but vanished) in the Republican Party.I wanted to laugh out loud when I read this. Where is the diversity of thought in the democrat party? Try being pro-life, or pro-traditional marriage in today's democrat party. Come out against transgenderism, or in favor of voucher funding for education, or in favor of low taxes, or against AOC and "The Squad", or against the radical gun control element, and see how far your "diversity" gets you.

Many republicans either had lukewarm support of Trump or outright opposed him. Where is that true of democrats and Biden?

Many republicans either had lukewarm support of Trump or outright opposed him. Where is that true of democrats and Biden?

I'll bite. Show me where repubs have opposed the dufus.

We also don't put people in prison for minor offences so we don't have a recidivist populationWe generally don't put people in prison for minor offences. Drug possession, for instance, rarely results in a prison sentence. It would generally take several such offenses for the person to end up in prison.

Clete The one true factor is that it is almost a guarantee that the guns used in most of the crimes are illegally obtained. The other true fact is that it is not those so called "assault rifles " that are being used in the vast majority of the crimes . Handguns are the weapon of choice for street thugs .

In one sentence you argue for community policing and in the next you condemn local policing .


I totally agree with your critique of the US prison system.

I think you confuse community policing, ie, the cop on the beat, with a police force supervised by a local political entity.

Yes hand guns are too readily available but "assault rifles" appear to be the weapon of choice for massacres. Again community safety should be paramount over the gun lobby and gun manufacturers. Surely there are too many weapons in your society, more than on per person, we have too many and the ratio here is one gun in four. Automatic and semi automatic weapons don't belong in the community

Automatic weapons were outlawed a long time ago. There have been 272 mass shootings in the US this year(maybe more as this weekend was an active shooting weekend ) . Few involved semi-automatic rifles . It is not even close.

• Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2021 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/)

But those are the ones that become high profile and are exploited for political purposes.

BTW perhaps the dumbest comment this year goes to Quid's mouth piece Jen Psaki who said we don't have a crime issue . We have a gun issue . The facts show that less than 8 % of guns used in crimes are obtained legally . So all your gun laws would solve nothing . The spike in sales is normally a rational reaction by law abiding citizens to increases in crime ,and want their right to defend themselves ,their families ,their property .

Automatic weapons were outlawed a long time ago. There have been 272 mass shootings in the US this year(maybe more as this weekend was an active shooting weekend ) . Few involved semi-automatic rifles . It is not even close.

• Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2021 | Statista

(https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/)

But those are the ones that become high profile and are exploited for political purposes.


Two questions:

How do you define mass shootings? E.g., are the 78 killed in Las Vegas the same category as 2 killed in a family dispute?

What are the political purposes being exploited?

The Congressional Research Service defines mass shootings, as multiple, firearm, homicide incidents, involving 4 or more victims at one or more locations close to one another. The FBI definition is essentially the same.
Quid and the Dems consistently blame semi-automatic rifles for the gun violence .They only bring up gun violence when there is a mass shooting incident where semi-automatic guns are used . Even better for their rhetoric is if a white male did the shooting . As mentioned ;they deny there is a crime problem in Democrat controlled cities . They call it a gun problem . If there is a gun problem in this country ,it is the illegal use of gun in crimes in the cities .

Quid said this : “This Administration will not wait for the next mass shooting to heed that call. We will take action to end our epidemic of gun violence and make our schools and communities safer,”

When did he say it ? Not this weekend or any other weekend where the carnage is rampant in the cities . He said this on the anniversary of the Parkland massacre . The shooter Nikolas Cruz has mental issues that were not addressed even though seemingly everyone in the school from fellow students to teachers and administrators all knew about it .An email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students.“We were told last year that he wasn’t allowed on campus with a backpack on him,” ... “There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus.” Students at school joked that one day he would be a shooter at the school . Cruz had been expelled from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School due to bringing knives on campus . So everyone knew he was more than capable of doing the crime . Florida’s Department of Children and Families investigated Cruz after he posted Snapchat videos that showed him cutting his arms. The report listed Cruz as an “alleged victim” of medical neglect and inadequate supervision. In September 2017, a Youtube user told the FBI about a comment left on one of his videos written by another user named “nikolas cruz.” The comment, asaid, “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.” The FBI did nothing .


But Quid and Psaki will not identify mental health as an issue either .

The cards are stacked in favor of students now. It is very difficult to get a student out of school, and that's especially true if some suspected mental illness seems to be the issue. And even if you can get the student expelled, he/she must be expelled to an alternative school. Very difficult to just send them home.

We generally don't put people in prison for minor offences. Drug possession, for instance, rarely results in a prison sentence. It would generally take several such offenses for the person to end up in prison.

Doesn't explain why you have the largest prison population in the world outside of the reeducation camps of China


But Quid and Psaki will not identify mental health as an issue either

it is obviously an issue

Doesn't explain why you have the largest prison population in the world outside of the reeducation camps of China.Incarceration for minor offenses does not explain it either. It is largely due to two reasons. Number one by far is the so called "War on Drugs". Our prison pop rate has gone from about 150 per hundred K in 1980 to the current 700 or so. It's been a disaster on many levels. Number two is the three strikes laws which mandate long sentences for repeat felony offenders.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

Incarceration for minor offenses does not explain it either. It is largely due to two reasons. Number one by far is the so called "War on Drugs". Our prison pop rate has gone from about 150 per hundred K in 1980 to the current 700 or so. It's been a disaster on many levels. Number two is the three strikes laws which mandate long sentences for repeat felony offenders.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

Who wants to solve it since prisons generate billions in profits.

Punishment for profit: The economics of mass incarceration – Workers World (https://www.workers.org/2015/05/19812/#:~:text=Because%20for%20a%20very%20powerful%20few %2C%20mass%20incarceration,government%20of%20incar ceration%20is%20%2470%20billion%20a%20year.)

Well, it's finally happening. After 100 or so days, KH is finally going to actually go to the southern border to get a first hand look at at least a very small portion of it. Now the portion she is going to see is not the problem area, so she will accomplish very, very little. I imagine this is being done so she can say, "Hey! I went to the blasted border. Now leave me alone." Wouldn't it be nice to have a real VP who would be going today for the fifth time rather than the first time and who would be able to say that she has talked with store owners, ranchers, border cops, and even the immigrants themselves. Oh well.

.

It's going to be a hard problem to solve.

Only if you don't want to solve it. Take the three strikes law, it is unjust, a law which imposes longer sentences for repeat offenders would serve the same purpose and reduce the prison population. The war on drugs has meant you are locking up more and more of your black population, this policy hasn't achieved the desired result, just put more individuals in a place of despair

So we should allow the drug dealers to stand on the street corners and peddle their poison? As to the 3 strikes laws, I have some sympathy for that, but I'd also suggest to those with two strikes to be sure not to get the third one. That is done by doing what the great majority of people do which is to obey the law.

The problem is much deeper than all of that. Fatherless families and out of wedlock births are both contributors.

Well, it's finally happening. After 100 or so days, KH is finally going to actually go to the southern border to get a first hand look at at least a very small portion of it.
I've never ever been to the border but have seen countless photos and videos, have read many news articles and have seen developments on news and talk shows. I could dive right in with changes and improvements.

You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene. It would be tantamount to being the mayor of Chicago but living in Los Angeles and never even going to Chicago. "Oh, I've seen photos and videos of Chicago and I watch CNN everyday. I've got this under control."

I can only imagine how you'd react if this was Pence instead of KH.

You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene. It would be tantamount to being the mayor of Chicago but living in Los Angeles and never even going to Chicago. "Oh, I've seen photos and videos of Chicago and I watch CNN everyday. I've got this under control."

I can only imagine how you'd react if this was Pence instead of KH.
Oh, I'd get to the border eventually, but there are several very important -- very vital! -- changes I would make from afar. And I would be in regular contact with those (yes, even the refugees etc.) who are there.

Pence is becoming a really nice guy.

Oh, I'd get to the border eventually. How nice of you. "I'll get to Chicago sooner or later. I'm just too busy looking at photos and videos and watching CNN. Don't rush me!"

Pence was always a nice guy.

How nice of you. "I'll get to Chicago sooner or later. I'm just too busy looking at photos and videos and watching CNN. Don't rush me!"

Pence was always a nice guy.
And what would a trip to the border tell you that you couldn't find out otherwise?

Oh, you apparently haven't heard the latest....

As said earlier. "You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene."

What would a trip to Chicago tell the mayor that he/she couldn't find out otherwise?

As said earlier. "You would have no real idea of the true conditions. You would not have talked with the real stake-holders such as ranchers, business owners, border agents, the immigrants themselves, local sheriffs and police, or mayors of small towns. Even worse, you would basically be saying that you don't care enough to put your own eyes on the scene."

Oh, I would go there and would definitely talk with the refugees and immigrants of all ages. But first I would need to understand the entire situation and what reinforcements and funds and volunteers are needed before I hit the highway.

Why Chicago? I don't live there nor do I have anything to do with it.

Why Chicago? I don't live there nor do I have anything to do with it.It's an analogy. No one with any sense would be content with a mayor who never even bothered to visit the town. It would be absurd, as is this situation with KH.


Oh, I would go there and would definitely talk with the refugees and immigrants of all ages.But not the citizens of the United States such as the ranchers, small-town mayors, border agents, or police and sheriff forces? How sad.

It's an analogy. No one with any sense would be content with a mayor who never even bothered to visit the town. It would be absurd, as is this situation with KH.
Chicago's mayor always LIVES IN Chicago. Lori has lived in the Logan Square neighborhood since 2004.

But not the citizens of the United States such as the ranchers, small-town mayors, border agents, or police and sheriff forces? How sad.
Of course, that's a given. I didn't think I had to mention such obvious contacts to someone as sharp as you.

Chicago's mayor always LIVES IN Chicago. Lori has lived in the Logan Square neighborhood since 2004.What part of the word "allegory" do you not understand???

It's a given? Sure it is. So much so that you didn't even bother to mention it.

What part of the word "allegory" do you not understand???
Um, no.

It's a given? Sure it is. So much so that you didn't even bother to mention it.
Because it's a given. I said earlier in this thread "But first I would need to understand the entire situation and what reinforcements and funds and volunteers are needed before I hit the highway". In order to understand, I would have to talk with those people (among others) you mentioned.

I know why Kam the sham was reluctant to visit . She botched her visit to the triangle nations and does not want a repeat performance . Maybe I'm missing something . Isn't El Paso one of the areas where the border wall was mostly completed ? 2019 El Paso was an epicenter of illegal crossings .Now not so much . She should travel a few hundred miles down the Rio Grande Valley ;especially the areas where construction was stopped .

Maybe would should have had immigration reform a few decades ago.

well not to worry, Texas has taken up the cudgel of building the wall so KH doesn't have to visit to see the progress

Maybe would should have had immigration reform a few decades ago. I really don't want to rehash the betrayal the Dems pulled the last time there was a so called "comprehensive immigration reform " law passed .... hint ..... amnesty for border control .

She should travel a few hundred miles down the Rio Grande Valley ;especially the areas where construction was stopped .
OR, she could stop in at Alamo, Texas, to tour the Alamo like Trump tried to do.

I really don't want to rehash the betrayal the Dems pulled the last time there was a so called "comprehensive immigration reform " law passed .... hint ..... amnesty for border control .

Reagan and Bush did it.

Yes by all means remember the Alamo when the shoe was on the other foot and Mexicans were trying to prevent an american incursion and takeover. Glorious résistance in the face of overwhelming odds

Yes by all means remember the Alamo
Trump was at the wrong location.

who cares where Trump was? who cares where KH is? there are many irrelevancies in the world and these are but two

Reagan and Bush did it. yes and then the Dems did not deliver on their end of the bargain ....border control

KH spent about four hours in El Paso before leaving for LA. It's the lib dem equivalent of, "Don't really care."

....border control
I agree but suspect you and I would not agree on the method.

I know ;you want open borders .

Is a humane process too much to ask? Seems the problem has always been the implementation of a plan. Neither side can agree on that but that open borders is crap, and a wall is useless because they have already figured a way around over and under it.

there is nothing else for it then, motion detectors and machine guns