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tomder55
May 24, 2021, 04:58 AM
As our lives become "greener" we will depend more and more on the mining of minerals . However the Quids of America do not like mining in America . They set up burdensome regulations that if not ban mining ,seriously discourage it ,including raising the cost of operations . The net effect is that it would require mining to be done in other countries that have more competitive tax rates than Quid would like , lower production costs, and questionable environmental standards.

It is funny how little discussion there is by the envirowackos about their policies requirements for minerals ,rare earth and otherwise. (ie it would require investment in copper roughly equal to the total known reserve to meet their goals )

The IEA has recently joined the debate about US plunging ahead with a green new deal.


The International Energy Agency, the world’s pre-eminent source of energy information for governments, has entered the political debate over whether the U.S. should spend trillions of dollars to accelerate the energy transition favored by the Biden administration. You know, the plan to use far more “clean energy” and far less hydrocarbons — the oil, natural gas and coal that today supply 84% of global energy needs. The IEA’s 287-page report released this month, “The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions,” is devastating to those ambitions. A better title would have been: “Clean Energy Transitions: Not Soon, Not Easy and Not Clean.”

Biden’s Not-So-Clean Energy Transition - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-not-so-clean-energy-transition-11620752282?mod=opinion_lead_pos5)




The IEA finds that with a global energy transition like the one President Biden envisions, demand for key minerals such as lithium, graphite, nickel and rare-earth metals would explode, rising by 4,200%, 2,500%, 1,900% and 700%, respectively, by 2040....
The world doesn’t have the capacity to meet such demand. As the IEA observes, albeit in cautious bureaucratese, there are no plans to fund and build the necessary mines and refineries. The supply of ETMs is entirely aspirational. And if it were pursued at the quantities dictated by the goals of the energy transition, the world would face daunting environmental, economic and social challenges, along with geopolitical risks.

The IEA stipulates up front one underlying fact that advocates of a transition never mention: Green-energy machines use far more critical minerals than conventional-energy machines do. “A typical electric car requires six times the mineral inputs of a conventional car, and an onshore wind plant requires nine times more mineral resources than a gas-fired power plant,” the report says. “Since 2010, the average amount of minerals needed for a new unit of power generation capacity has increased by 50% as the share of renewables has risen.” That was merely to bring wind and solar to a 10% share of the world’s electricity.

Athos
May 24, 2021, 05:26 AM
It is funny how little discussion there is by the envirowackos about their policies requirements for minerals ,rare earth and otherwise.

It is funny how envirowackos leave out critical information in what they post here.


The IEA has recently joined the debate about US plunging ahead with a green new deal.


The IEA report is based on models and describes a possible scenario in the future re the need for minerals. What was notably left out in Tomder's copy were the possible solutions in that report. See the following.

The IEA report offers six key recommendations for policy makers to foster stable supplies of critical minerals to support accelerated clean energy transitions. These include:


Ensure adequate investment in diversified sources of new supply. Strong signals from policy makers about the speed of energy transitions and the growth trajectories of key clean energy technologies are critical to bring forward timely investment in new supply. Governments can play a major role in creating conditions conducive to diversified investment in the mineral supply chain.
Promote technology innovation at all points along the value chain. Stepping up R&D efforts for technology innovation on both the demand and production sides can enable more efficient use of materials, allow material substitution and unlock sizeable new supplies, thereby bringing substantial environmental and security benefits.

Scale up recycling. Policies can play a pivotal role in preparing for rapid growth of waste volumes by incentivising recycling for products reaching the end of their operating lives, supporting efficient collection and sorting activities and funding R&D into new recycling technologies.
Enhance supply chain resilience and market transparency. Policy makers need to explore a range of measures to improve the resilience of supply chains for different minerals, develop response capabilities to potential supply disruptions and enhance market transparency. Measures can include regular market assessments and stress-tests, as well as strategic stockpiles in some instances.
Mainstream higher environmental, social and governance standards. Efforts to incentivise higher environmental and social performance can increase sustainably and responsibly produced volumes and lower the cost of sourcing them. If players with strong environmental and social performance are rewarded in the marketplace, it can lead to greater diversification among supply.

tomder55
May 24, 2021, 05:45 AM
tell me how there is a green future without extreme mining of minerals . The envirowackos envision energy without extraction from the earth and that is as fantasy land as the flux capacitor, vibranium , and adamantium .

btw it takes heavy equipment powered by carbon fuels to extract minerals .

Athos
May 24, 2021, 06:56 AM
tell me how there is a green future without extreme mining of minerals . The envirowackos envision energy without extraction from the earth and that is as fantasy land as the flux capacitor, vibranium , and adamantium .

btw it takes heavy equipment powered by carbon fuels to extract minerals .

Did you look at the possible solutions I presented?

Other than that, I am not in a position to intelligently discuss the issue. I can post what I find but I'm not a scientist.

My take on this matter is that it's a very tough nut to crack, but I believe it is essential to try. My belief is rooted in the great majority of scientists - both environmental types and others - who have long substantiated the claims of the climate problems being primarily man-made. The easy ones to understand are the melting, the sea rising, the weather patterns, and the others accessible to the layman.

The solution is not all black-and-white. For example, carbon fuels needed to run equipment to extract minerals. I should think a certain amount of carbon fuels can be retained without jeopardizing the climate.

The other thing I'm convinced of is that the opposition always seems to come from the political right-wing. Why is that? I suspect it has little do with the science and everything to do with the political philosophy based on less government - and the usual money, power and influence. It was that way with Covid - a clear emergency which was secondary to politics from the right.

If you have positions supporting the opposite of my convictions, I will read them with an open mind.

talaniman
May 24, 2021, 10:57 AM
Let me guess. If you had a horse you wouldn't need a car. The potential for economic expansion via present/future jobs and new technology far outweighs the sustainability of the old/current ways even if the climate change stuff is in flux or still so controversial (For some anyway in).

As a staunch capitalist though, not wanting to explore new technology and revenue streams boggles the mind, but if you love the horse and buggy mentality I'm sure your Amish friends will accommodate you. Personally consider this

2023 Cadillac LYRIQ | Electric SUV | Model Overview (https://www.cadillac.com/electric/lyriq?ppc=MICROSOFT_700000001296806_71700000065752 102_58700005808380312_p57465590385&&d_src=313715&d_adsrc=3876787&d_campaign=71700000065752102&d_site=MICROSOFT&d_adgroup=58700005808380312&d_keyword=cadillac+electric+suv&gclick=&msclkid=61ea98aa882d1828fa5cf801609dd369&gclid=61ea98aa882d1828fa5cf801609dd369&gclsrc=3p.ds)

There ain't no coal, or hay in my bucket list.

paraclete
May 24, 2021, 02:35 PM
The IEA report is based on models

Here once again we have the problem, models, not facts

jlisenbe
May 24, 2021, 07:32 PM
It's all a moot point. There is not enough money to fund the GND or even come close to it. With the printing/borrowing that's going on now, it's just a matter of time before the wheels fall off. Then we'll just be glad to have any kind of energy.

paraclete
May 24, 2021, 07:35 PM
stick some solar panels on your house or a windmill on the roof

tomder55
May 25, 2021, 03:13 AM
or you can wear your own personal windmill
https://canary.contestimg.wish.com/api/webimage/5ca2fadab453e26bd77f9e36-large.jpg?cache_buster=a112f8952bf88ca2619f21a878b 68a0d

Athos
May 25, 2021, 04:57 AM
or you can wear your own personal windmill
https://canary.contestimg.wish.com/api/webimage/5ca2fadab453e26bd77f9e36-large.jpg?cache_buster=a112f8952bf88ca2619f21a878b 68a0d


Nice self-portrait, tom.

tomder55
May 25, 2021, 06:53 AM
nah I would not be wearing rainbow suspenders .